Objective Thinking And Trading | Page 6 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

GBP / JPY 57 points strategy Objective daily 5 replies

Fibnacci trading..Are U thinking what i'm thinking? 76 replies

Inspiration towards a more objective focused trading career 3 replies

objective opinion about MT4 8 replies

Pairs objective facts 0 replies

Attachments: Objective Thinking And Trading
Exit Attachments

Objective Thinking And Trading

  • #101
  • Mar 30, 2021 4:43am Mar 30, 2021 4:43am
Basically Kahneman test was about cognitive bias not about happiness, happiness was a sociological construct used to research field of cognitive bias...
Mises was presented happiness as main power driving people to make actions ...
this days psychologists rather thing that avoiding pain is the biggest force pushing people to take an action..
it must be the truth... mine ass pain push mi all the time...
  • #102
  • Mar 30, 2021 5:01am Mar 30, 2021 5:01am
It's ok for people to talk about authors and professional academics. It's just that behavioral science is a branch of certain other things but not necessarily the conclusiveness people may be searching for. That's all I was bringing up.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #103
  • Mar 30, 2021 5:02am Mar 30, 2021 5:02am
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} OK, well, before someone reads into his work too much , it needs to be said that his work is not original. History is good evidence of this. Not trying to belittle or berate his work just pointing something out. Seeing as his backbone is behavioral science and cultural sub-culture, economics, it's reasonable to consider many things. He's an interesting read. But I wouldn't consider it conclusive. Just my input. Peter
I'm talking about objective thinking and influence on thinking, not about the book.

it is easy to be misguided, but hard to be aware.
Forex can only be understood backwards, but it must be traded forwards.
  • #104
  • Mar 30, 2021 5:08am Mar 30, 2021 5:08am
Quoting prozor7
{quote} I'm talking about objective thinking and influence on thinking, not about the book. it is easy to be misguided, but hard to be aware.


It's all encompassing, so it DOES include the book as well as the example you offered. You brought it up and I simply observed what was expressed. I wasn't trying to be argumentative, just presenting further consideration. That there is the issue - hard or easy. What if I have the opinion that it's easy to be aware? Where would that leave all this? 1. head to head 2. A need for further investigation, review and learning.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #105
  • Mar 30, 2021 5:37am Mar 30, 2021 5:37am
I'm happy to discuss different things with people, on the provisor that it helps push a person's learning curve.

For the sake of speediness, I grabbed this pic and adjusted it to show what a person can choose.


Peter


Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Learning curves.png Size: 1.3 MB
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #106
  • Mar 30, 2021 5:41am Mar 30, 2021 5:41am
"Objective Thinking And Trading"

trading is based on "Trader believes" it is simple as that.

what is behind those believes, is for each trader to discover.

pro7
Forex can only be understood backwards, but it must be traded forwards.
  • #107
  • Mar 30, 2021 5:44am Mar 30, 2021 5:44am
Quoting prozor7
"Objective Thinking And Trading" trading is based on "Trader believes" it is simple as that. what is behind those believes, is for each trader to discover. pro7


It's OK. I understand.

Time will tell.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #108
  • Mar 30, 2021 7:04am Mar 30, 2021 7:04am
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} A simple yet potent way to respond to this query could be this -- A long time ago, I met a young but thoughtful 9 yr old boy who told me for no reason - "A happy person doesn't call it happy but calls it living. I see that coz my father is very unhappy because his mum died yesterday." That really happened to me. Many grown ups over the years have offered several interpretations about what he said. But each interpretation seems to extend to either one extreme or the other. So the exploration of this statement by this young boy of only 9yrs...
I also believe happiness is part of living.
Rose and thorns is a good example of living with pleasure and pain.
Trading is no different.
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #109
  • Mar 30, 2021 7:09am Mar 30, 2021 7:09am
Quoting PeterCaleb
I'm happy to discuss different things with people, on the provisor that it helps push a person's learning curve. For the sake of speediness, I grabbed this pic and adjusted it to show what a person can choose. Peter {image}
Presently, I am experimenting with enter and exit by time using an EA on a demo with no profit or loss targets.
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #110
  • Mar 30, 2021 9:44pm Mar 30, 2021 9:44pm
I do understand where people are coming from when we are talking about beliefs and the many interpretations of "all of this". What I am putting forward for consideration (in this thread) is merely a stepping stone to come to realize that whatever you have learned and "think you have learned" about trading and yourself, is completely transferable back out into real life..... be it healthy or not.

There is no point in twisting yourself up into something unnatural just so you can scrape a little "profit" from the markets. People are not aware of and do not think about how it all affects them and how it changes them, as a person. Sometimes the changes are reversible but sometimes they're not.

I'm sure we could all carry on with a very long conversation about different writings and ideas and theories, but a truthful trend has been forming in people for many years now. This trend is not about anything worldly or religious etc. It is set upon the backdrop of the basics of Life and being a Human person. Now I know some people "don't care" about such things, but when they get sick, they do. When someone they love dies, they do. When they think they're going to die, of course they do.

Observation must precede anything new, including awareness. History is a great example of this, for anyone who prefers to take that avenue to come to understand this further and deeper. Life proves better than any book, that beliefs are structured on the type of and health of the premise a person sets up. PERIOD. But if that premise is based on some form of assumption, then you have a serious problem. Everything that stems from that premise will be rotten from its core.

For any reading this, I'm not here to lecture anyone, for that would be a waste of everyone's time. No.

But I WILL say here and now - IF what you have learned and ARE learning re: you and your trading, is NOT transferable out into the world, then you are constructing a super-specialized form of thinking. Don't agree or believe me? FUNTASTIC !!!

Q - Right here and now, grab some paper and draw a line down the vertical centre of the page. In one column make a list of ALL of the skills AND KNOWLEDGE you have gained during your time as a trader. Now, let's imagine that tomorrow, the whole world BANNED trading entirely. ALL of it. GONE. Now, you have all of this in your head but nowhere to direct it and focus it. What do you do with it? You can't trade anymore. So ..... What now?

Beginning to see my point here?

If you want to know what potentially, TRULY separates a general trader from a truly dedicated professional trader ..... this is it.

The ability to flex the skills and knowledge they have learned in ANY given situation and therefore allow them to be fully transferable. If you're only good with statistics, you're stuck. If you're only good with visual displays you're stuck. If you believe there is some 'central formula' to trading ---> just the same approach as if this was a job AKA "Do your job well/properly and you'll get paid", you're stuck.

It's something to think about.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #111
  • Mar 30, 2021 9:49pm Mar 30, 2021 9:49pm
Quoting simnz
{quote} I also believe happiness is part of living. Rose and thorns is a good example of living with pleasure and pain. Trading is no different.



Indeed. It's very important for people to learn that you cannot separate the tangible from the intangible. They have a relationship that binds them to one another.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #112
  • Mar 30, 2021 9:51pm Mar 30, 2021 9:51pm
Quoting simnz
{quote} Presently, I am experimenting with enter and exit by time using an EA on a demo with no profit or loss targets.


That could be VERY interesting as there are several discriminating factors that play out even if you plan doesn't use them. Let me know how the playing goes.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #113
  • Mar 30, 2021 10:11pm Mar 30, 2021 10:11pm
One of the questions a trader must ask themself is -

Do I want to solve this problem or just find a work-around for it?

Naturally some problems are going to be a bit beyond you as you are right now, however, MOST are not beyond you.


Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 1.png Size: 431 KB


People ask me, how do I take that first step?

My answer, the ONLY answer is always the same ..... Find out what makes you tick and beat. Trading is not a job, it's a choice. Just the same with your own human development. You have to find out what makes a difference for YOU.

For me, it's positing this everyday .....



Attached Image
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Prove you love and respect your child.png Size: 7 KB




Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #114
  • Mar 31, 2021 1:50am Mar 31, 2021 1:50am
I like the simplicity here and I hope you see the lesson here too..........


Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Week_17.jpg Size: 273 KB


Hihihihihihiii.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #115
  • Mar 31, 2021 1:54am Mar 31, 2021 1:54am
This one reminds me of so many traders when they're being led astray by people who "know what they're doing" ......


Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Week_49.jpg Size: 316 KB



Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #116
  • Mar 31, 2021 5:30am Mar 31, 2021 5:30am
Tell me, please, when you look at a chart, is the price going up or down?

For this thread to be anything more to you than a mere portal for information, you need to engage in what I call " Knowledge Decategorization".

It's a simple process but it takes a while for someone who is dedicated to learning, to master it in themself.

Why?

Its sole purpose is to strip your assumptions of ALL of their "power and strength" so all that is left is the basic truth of what is.

For most people, having things categorized and cataloged gives them a sense of calm and order but also sets them on a path to extreme ruin. The human mind was never meant to use isolated attention within its tasks. And so, many people require the safety of "everything in its place" to uphold the status quo in their life....so that everything continues to make sense.

But .... WHAT IF ....

I said that you can change this?

Would that be of interest and value to you?

In one context, the biggest problem with the world today is there's just TOO MUCH information.

And what do you DO with all this information?

This thread was NEVER meant to be some "Self Help" place or some spiritual/personal development place. No. It's for those people who have realized that trading without a functioning brain and relying EXCESSIVELY on tech and indicators etc and outside sources, simply is a perilous path to stay on. I'm not anti technology but I do draw issue with people's addiction to it and over-reliance on it.

So now I offer some 'interesting' post-It notes for anyone who wants to learn and improve their trading.

* I'm not putting these in any manipulated order so just go through them one at a time.



Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 3.001.jpeg Size: 41 KB

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 0104-530X-gp-0104-530X0893-15-gf02-en.jpg Size: 92 KB

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 1558475109499-Knowledge Transfer Process.png Size: 44 KB

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Self Awareness Test.png Size: 1.3 MB

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: The-Nonaka-Takeuchi-Model-knowledge-management-model.png Size: 17 KB

Attached Image

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: v7.002-1024x576.jpeg Size: 40 KB



See what you can do with those.


Peter
Attached Image
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #117
  • Mar 31, 2021 11:24pm Mar 31, 2021 11:24pm
Inner Mental World =

Observations, Added observations via hindsight, Foresight = Hindsight + horizontally inverted hindsight (Sometimes Literally + Sometimes inverted literally).

Option 1 = Forget about the real world and get engrossed in trading SO MUCH that you lose yourself in it. Likely outcome = Huge Losses.

Option 2 = REMEMBER that you are a real person and always keep a firm grip on reality while learning 'how to learn' how to trade properly. (No that's not a typo). Likely outcome = More consistent trading.

Outer Mental World = You're not gonna make me do it are you? Oh crap you ARE gonna make me do it !!! Oh jeez !!!

I've spoken before about Mark Douglas and some have learned something MORE than just the usual.

But Mark wasn't talking about what many think he was talking about.

This thread is now carrying a plethora of inputs and insights that can aid you to see more than others when looking into Mark's works. I hope you will spend the time to review Mark's well known presentation - How to think like a professional trader. Only THIS TIME, do more observations and listening before you arrive at any "conclusions".

Below, I have arranged both the youtube links as well as my own freely downloadable copy of this presentation.

YT -

1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgaTlTfQnZI
2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffGX7IZ8mbc
3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i4xPdCQ-L8
4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8hg-1Rfs7c

Peter's DL copy

1 - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EZM9rxhKy8cwwNm-UNQM2CKcTvRyEhK4/view?usp=sharing
2 - https://drive.google.com/file/d/16VeyXyY5ekBxqITFcsCkDmUpYiVaNZV1/view?usp=sharing
3 - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ES4HBefIxGM33vteHJ4slLiQ-tP2-iG4/view?usp=sharing
4 - https://drive.google.com/file/d/16KOsfAk54rSFMwcE6H579dYf3ZXRmHcz/view?usp=sharing


The other thing to keep in mind is this ........


Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: NORMAL AND INVERSE PROBABILITIES.png Size: 6 KB


Have fun and I hope this helps.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #118
  • Apr 1, 2021 2:39am Apr 1, 2021 2:39am
There is a controversy surrounding several elements of being a human. For a trader, do you identify yourself as a trader or as an investor in value?

What's the difference?

What is the scope of your thinking?

Here's some bits and bobs to provoke and stimulate.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Habits and Attitudes.png Size: 1.1 MB

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: CCC.png Size: 443 KB

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Figure-1-Characteristics-of-Individual-Character.png Size: 76 KB

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: The-choice-phase-in-the-decision-making-process.png Size: 63 KB

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 3 CosmicOnionMagick.gif Size: 10 KB

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: slide_6.jpg Size: 87 KB


I hope this helps.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #119
  • Apr 1, 2021 4:03am Apr 1, 2021 4:03am
No time left for trading...

... and semifinals/finals Miami 2021 WTA ... Mr M.D. has to wait for his turn... sorry.
  • #120
  • Apr 4, 2021 5:39pm Apr 4, 2021 5:39pm
It is 2021 now. People are doing what they do but something has not changed.

In this post I want to further examine and expose the stereotype of the status quo when talking about Objective thinking and trading.

If I was to say to you, "Get rid of EVERY attitude you possess and be willing and able to start afresh", WOULD you do it? Not COULD but WOULD you?

From what I've seen many people would certainly struggle with this. Why? In my layman terms, they're addicted to their opinions and ill-informed beliefs.

Below are two such examples of the status quo 'out there'. I want you to go and read them so you are aware of what they put forward.

- https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/trading-investing/objective-vs-subjective-trading/
- https://www.brameshtechanalysis.com/2020/05/are-you-a-objective-or-subjective-trader/

In this day and age, you'd think people would have ceased to regurgitate the same old stuff, especially when it has been proven to be a falsehood but alas no.

Jesse Livermore once said ....



Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: L51vx6C.jpg Size: 28 KB



And now, here's that same principle in a totally different context .....



Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Integrity-and-Justice-can-be-subjective-Truth-is.jpg Size: 46 KB




So now we come to the good old animal pic ... which do you see?



Attached Image




So here's a question - Is it better to write with only your right hand or only your left hand?

Although when you look up a dictionary to find, or google, Objective, you will find many meanings and words as a suitable alternative, I prefer to use a different style of thinking towards this. When I think of Objective I think of - full, whole, thorough, well-rounded, deep, vast, well prepared.

Why so different?

The truth is, my 'definition words' were, at one time, actually part of the meaning of Objective. But over time the dictionaries have been altered and so now most people are not aware of its more "full" meaning, principally speaking. Hihihihi Yes pun intended !!

Trading has NEVER been about one side OR the other. OR, being robotic about how YOU think. All of THAT is just propaganda and rhetoric from within the financial world. It creates biases and sells books and courses. Nothing more. Truthfully, it does nothing for your trading because without knowing what comes next in any market, it is now a "thinking sport". And perhaps, as far as I can see, this problem sits at the centre of most people's issues re: their trading. Too much from the filler menu and not enough from the truthful menu. Trading IS an ala carte environment. The people who spend a lifetime trying and failing are eating from the set menu.

Even many people on sites like this who rave on about all kinds of things yet do not fathom how wasteful it is, to be thinking and being addicted that way.

Many people still have not realized that it is NOT your "trading thinking" that will provide you with your successes but your "Real Life thinking". Your trading thinking is but a glimmer of the day and so, your baseline thinking MUST be well nourished or else, you will end up falling on your own sword out of hubris or some other form of excess and imbalance.

Another simple way to contextualize all of this is ....



Attached Image



And still, there is this looming gap in the middle.

It is that space right in the middle of all this that people are not seeing.

It is where you combine NOT points of confluence but the basic references most people take for granted, both in their trading life and their real life.

It's a process where you synthesize a better and clearer way to see what you're dealing with.



Attached Image



For people starting out with this process, I would suggest combining BOTH the perceived objective and the subjective that those links from earlier were talking about and also from this post. By combining them you are offering yourself a birds eye view ......



Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: birds-eye-view.jpg Size: 104 KB
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: mexico-city-birds-eye-views.jpg Size: 504 KB
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: photo-1553671715-350ab3b6e9ad.jpg Size: 112 KB


Although this is just a simple introduction, always remember that observations made from all directions are worth a gazillion times more than any million dollar trade.



Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: PROBABILITY TRADE.png Size: 10 KB




I hope that helps.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
0 traders viewing now