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Objective Thinking And Trading

  • #81
  • Mar 29, 2021 4:28am Mar 29, 2021 4:28am
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As a friend of mine said recently, "Learning is about DOING and then the other stuff makes sense".


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #82
  • Mar 29, 2021 4:31am Mar 29, 2021 4:31am
This process is not always easy because what you are doing is 'unlearning' what is not real and true and returning your thinking to its starting point. Then you can learn how to learn and then your trading will make more sense because the "clutter" is gone.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #83
  • Mar 29, 2021 4:35am Mar 29, 2021 4:35am
Information, context, relationships, observation, similar vs different, same vs opposite.

"I would rather die learning than to go on existing as if I was never given the choice."


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #84
  • Mar 29, 2021 4:41am Mar 29, 2021 4:41am
The most challenging times are when you learn the most.

THIS is why the processes are important. And why keeping notes is paramount.

Every time you get angry, upset, frustrated or indifferent while you are trying to learn, these are real life signs that you are challenging your assumptions and beliefs. NOT wild chatter from a crazy old fool but your opinions, judgments, beliefs and ideas of Life that make up the status quo in your head being challenged.

Yes real life is harder than just reading a book, but THAT'S what makes it exciting and interesting.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #85
  • Mar 29, 2021 4:55am Mar 29, 2021 4:55am
Process itself is simple, but people ...
Thank You Peter...
  • #86
  • Mar 29, 2021 5:07am Mar 29, 2021 5:07am
Quoting BlackNapkins
Process itself is simple, but people ... Thank You Peter...


IF you spend the time to understand how a person, people, culture and society are all "fractal" (to use a familiar word here) of each other, it becomes MUCH clearer.

This is why the pic below is far more important than many probably realize ......


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Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #87
  • Mar 29, 2021 5:08am Mar 29, 2021 5:08am
Quoting PeterCaleb
The most challenging times are when you learn the most. THIS is why the processes are important. And why keeping notes is paramount. Every time you get angry, upset, frustrated or indifferent while you are trying to learn, these are real life signs that you are challenging your assumptions and beliefs. NOT wild chatter from a crazy old fool but your opinions, judgments, beliefs and ideas of Life that make up the status quo in your head being challenged. Yes real life is harder than just reading a book, but THAT'S what makes it exciting and interesting....
My problem is as long as I am doing trading on my own way, shutting all windows of noise, I am doing well.
The moment I open any window of market information, my brain gets influenced by market noise or news.
That shatters my confidence in me.

Out of boredom, the window is opened and then the virus enters. This happens only when the required time of 15 minutes gets prolonged.

FOMO is not much of a concern. So I don't worry too much about making it up for my lapses.

Rather how to avoid such a situation so that my winning spree hits at least 90%.
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #88
  • Mar 29, 2021 5:25am Mar 29, 2021 5:25am
simnz,

To respond to what you have said, means I need to be a little cruel to be kind .... ready? .......

Genuine learning has nothing to do with want and desire. Or you, really. It is about the experience of old and new combining. Modern people have very strange, screwed up priorities. And their focus goes to where they value more/most. People today love information, they're addicted to it. If you are distracted by outside elements then reassess your plan. Is there anywhere in your plan that says that outside info is 'good' or 'useful' or competent? This is what I do. Assess in a way where your plan is ESSENTIAL. NOT something strict but something real, tangible and well thought out.

Your plan needs to reflect your maturity as a person, minus wants and desires. In trading for eg, the market you trade does not know if you want to trade. Only you do. You know this ... we've spoken about it before.

Boredom. Find a balance between work and playtime. When it's time to work ..... WORK.

90% is ambiguous. But if you're simply talking about direction and position for setup, then the chart is a good place. I would also challenge your preconceptions of the market as someone who knows nothing. New slate thinker. No bad habits to distract or misinform.

I hope that helps.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #89
  • Mar 29, 2021 7:19am Mar 29, 2021 7:19am
Quoting PeterCaleb
simnz, To respond to what you have said, means I need to be a little cruel to be kind .... ready? ....... Genuine learning has nothing to do with want and desire. Or you, really. It is about the experience of old and new combining. Modern people have very strange, screwed up priorities. And their focus goes to where they value more/most. People today love information, they're addicted to it. If you are distracted by outside elements then reassess your plan. Is there anywhere in your plan that says that outside info is 'good' or 'useful' or competent?...
Want and desire?
No goals?
No targets?
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #90
  • Mar 29, 2021 6:05pm Mar 29, 2021 6:05pm
Your plan must have a foundation based on bedrock not gold. So a person who 'chases profit' day after day is trying to "get" money from the market. But someone who understands that your choices, decisions and actions come from having an accurate reflection of the market you trade. So you need to know it very well. So you can surf the trades you do instead of fighting the market or struggling to get a good foot hold.

This is what I mean. Plans based on wants and desires are trying to be "clever" and therefore trying to merely outsmart the market. It's all about process and what the truthful priorities need to be at all times. Yes goals and targets are necessary but when building a good foundation goals must not interfere with building knowledge and understanding.

I hope this helps.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #91
  • Mar 29, 2021 9:04pm Mar 29, 2021 9:04pm
Quoting PeterCaleb (https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/post/13472872#post13472872)
The most challenging times are when you learn the most. THIS is why the processes are important. And why keeping notes is paramount. Every time you get angry, upset, frustrated or indifferent while you are trying to learn, these are real life signs that you are challenging your assumptions and beliefs. NOT wild chatter from a crazy old fool but your opinions, judgments, beliefs and ideas of Life that make up the status quo in your head being challenged. Yes real life is harder than just reading a book, but THAT'S what makes it exciting and interesting....

My problem is as long as I am doing trading on my own way, shutting all windows of noise, I am doing well.
The moment I open any window of market information, my brain gets influenced by market noise or news.
That shatters my confidence in me.

Out of boredom, the window is opened and then the virus enters. This happens only when the required time of 15 minutes gets prolonged.

FOMO is not much of a concern. So I don't worry too much about making it up for my lapses.

Rather how to avoid such a situation so that my winning spree hits at least 90%.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"My problem is....That shatters my confidence in me. "
Solution = Problem identified and solution identified within this statement.

If you are thorough about you and your real life knowledge, understanding and awareness then the plan you create will be as strong as bedrock and unbreakable. And so petty distractions will be unimportant.

In certain contexts, ego problems, FOMO, greed, fear, impatience etc are all effects of self initiated ignorance and self sabotage.

"Just when you think you've gone deep enough, you find out there's more there than you originally thought or believed."

As a side note here - There must a need to learn present for any real and measurable progress to be made.

As you and others would already know, the performance onstage is but 1% of the effort and time that goes into anything worthwhile. It is all the work done in the background that makes the stage light up at show time. So all of the different processes and activities of process that a person does and goes through, will be what makes the changes and improvements permanent.

Internal motivation, opinion, judgement, belief, fact, truth, information, knowledge, understanding, awareness, excuse, justification, individual mental and emotional reality, the status quo, a single person, a group of people, their culture, society and the beliefs of that culture and society. ALL very relevant and important.


I hope this helps.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #92
  • Mar 29, 2021 10:09pm Mar 29, 2021 10:09pm
If people are seeking a way to focus more, because of whatever cause, I have an indicator I found that was created by someone else, that helps you create a checklist for trade criteria. It's made for mt4. I only use mt4 for testing, research and tracking, but I have also used it for criteria assessment. So this indicator came in very handy.

Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 FXTT_StrategyChecklist.mq4   17 KB | 396 downloads

It's also a good idea to keep track of how you are feeling, both physically and mentally. There are many changes happening in the world, both in the trading world and beyond, so it's good to know what's going on with yourself and what has changed.

I hope this helps.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #93
  • Mar 29, 2021 10:47pm Mar 29, 2021 10:47pm
Trading is a lot like Life. Probably more than people care to admit.

I find it interesting how people generally assume that cause and effect inline with trading HAS TO be an If:Then situation.

Eg. -


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Life is not always as literal as people want it to be.

Another good example I found, that again, CAN and DOES relate quite closely to trading, albeit, a little unconventional in the assumptions of its relevance in people's minds......

https://kidpillar.com/best-moral-stories-for-kids/


Have Fun !!


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #94
  • Mar 29, 2021 11:35pm Mar 29, 2021 11:35pm
Optimism, Skepticism, Cynicism, Pessimism. These are the tools of a weak mind with a weak intention. 'Critical Thinking' is another. Why? They each use literal thinking processes (both in the abstract and concrete forms) to problem solve, to resolve issues and to foresee coming issues.

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Literal thinkers are those of us who interpret what others say based on the actual meaning of the terms used. Literal thinkers focus on the exact meaning of words and often find it difficult to interpret a less factual or more metaphoric meaning.
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Sometimes logic and rational thinking just aren't enough.

Q - Would you rather be poor but wise OR rich but dumb-as-a-door-nail?

Sometimes you need more than just facts and information. At this point, I like to turn to something I can listen to, something that can penetrate beyond my reasoning and "thinking".

Below are two examples that have accumulated A LOT of miles of listening.

I hope they help you too.

PS - One is for inspiration and one is for readiness. Let's see how many boundaries you put up after reading me saying this.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19yPgOMmiDrIQtaTFikmM1kucKHOe3LI7/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14GgFmyI9uc-pQ7FpEZI0DajwEC4-ZNde/view?usp=sharing

Enjoy.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #95
  • Mar 30, 2021 2:16am Mar 30, 2021 2:16am
Hi Peter ...interesting ... in fact I couldn't sleep well last night, even worse, can not watch charts... do I start hate them?
but ...
"Q - Would you rather be poor but wise OR rich but dumb-as-a-door-nail?"
What bother me is, which one of those is happy?
  • #96
  • Mar 30, 2021 3:30am Mar 30, 2021 3:30am
IMHO
objective thinking is possible only when person is aware influence on itself.
example:

ask group of students 2 questions
Q. how happy they are with there life on a scale 1 - 10 in past 3 month
A. average 8.4
Q. how many times have been on a date in past 3 month
A. average 1.2

now reverse questions
ask group of students 2 questions
Q. how many times have been on a date in past 3 month
A. average 1.2
Q. how happy they are with there life on a scale 1 - 10 in past 3 month
A. average 6.7

why there is a difference in happiness?
did asking question about dating, first, have influence?

Daniel Kahneman explain that nicely in his book.
Forex can only be understood backwards, but it must be traded forwards.
  • #97
  • Mar 30, 2021 3:46am Mar 30, 2021 3:46am
Quoting BlackNapkins
Hi Peter ...interesting ... in fact I couldn't sleep well last night, even worse, can not watch charts... do I start hate them? but ... "Q - Would you rather be poor but wise OR rich but dumb-as-a-door-nail?" What bother me is, which one of those is happy?


A simple yet potent way to respond to this query could be this --

A long time ago, I met a young but thoughtful 9 yr old boy who told me for no reason - "A happy person doesn't call it happy but calls it living. I see that coz my father is very unhappy because his mum died yesterday."

That really happened to me. Many grown ups over the years have offered several interpretations about what he said. But each interpretation seems to extend to either one extreme or the other. So the exploration of this statement by this young boy of only 9yrs of age, has shown that many people have a rather warped sense of Life and many other different areas of living.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #98
  • Mar 30, 2021 3:50am Mar 30, 2021 3:50am
Quoting prozor7
IMHO objective thinking is possible only when person is aware influence on itself. example: ask group of students 2 questions Q. how happy they are with there life on a scale 1 - 10 in past 3 month A. average 8.4 Q. how many times have been on a date in past 3 month A. average 1.2 now reverse questions ask group of students 2 questions Q. how many times have been on a date in past 3 month A. average 1.2 Q. how happy they are with there life on a scale 1 - 10 in past 3 month A. average 6.7 why there is a difference in happiness? did asking question...


prozor7,

I could respond with many things here, but that wouldn't be very appropriate. But I do have 1 question - Besides what you have read about him, what do you understand about Daniel Kahneman? Not his works, but Him?


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #99
  • Mar 30, 2021 4:01am Mar 30, 2021 4:01am
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} prozor7, I could respond with many things here, but that wouldn't be very appropriate. But I do have 1 question - Besides what you have read about him, what do you understand about Daniel Kahneman? Not his works, but Him? Peter
Peter,
I never met the guy. having opinion about person without personal introduction is not my cup of tea.

pro7
Forex can only be understood backwards, but it must be traded forwards.
  • #100
  • Mar 30, 2021 4:24am Mar 30, 2021 4:24am
Quoting prozor7
{quote} Peter, I never met the guy. having opinion about person without personal introduction is not my cup of tea. pro7


OK, well, before someone reads into his work too much , it needs to be said that his work is not original. History is good evidence of this. Not trying to belittle or berate his work just pointing something out.

Seeing as his backbone is behavioral science and cultural sub-culture, economics, it's reasonable to consider many things.

He's an interesting read. But I wouldn't consider it conclusive. Just my input.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
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