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FTMO - For serious traders

  • #6,301
  • Mar 19, 2021 10:15am Mar 19, 2021 10:15am
Quoting LoveScalping
{quote} For the "talented" trader, call charges will never be a problem. If you are confident in your trading system, you will receive a call fee after the end of 1 trading month (note that you will receive a call fee refund even if the profit is 0.000001% If a trader is unable to follow his rules, he should not do it.
Exactly. One of the other benefits I like about using other peoples money (FTMO) is the need to have capital tied up.

I have an AMP futures account that requires a significant amount in the account as margin requirement. That can changed from day to day as trading conditions differ. CQG also had a feed disruption earlier this week that sent many into seizures as well.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #6,302
  • Mar 19, 2021 10:54am Mar 19, 2021 10:54am
The scaling plan is not mandatory to parcipate, parcipation fee is.

For a talented trader "call charges" will never be a problem because he doesn't have to pay to parcipate. Still don't understand why has to pay at FTMO.

That's why I had to make some simple math. I used to make some quick calculations about possible business models and this what comes to my mind when I think about FTMO:

Just suppose that what just 1% is capable of passing 3 months steps to get funded. Over 100 participants, that would lead to 1 getting $40,000 funded account after 3 months (challenge plus verification steps), letting him only risk $4,000. And the other 99 traders failed and paid 155 euros each. That is a total 15,345 euros.
So, they risk 3,360 euros ($4,000) and they make 15,345 euros (11,985 in the worst scenario: 15,345 - 3,360)
Always ready to help
  • #6,303
  • Mar 19, 2021 11:03am Mar 19, 2021 11:03am
Quoting PaulMF
The scaling plan is not mandatory to parcipate, parcipation fee is. For a talented trader "call charges" will never be a problem because he doesn't have to pay to parcipate. Still don't understand why has to pay at FTMO. That's why I had to make some simple math. I used to make some quick calculations about possible business models and this what comes to my mind when I think about FTMO: Just suppose that what just 1% is capable of passing 3 months steps to get funded. Over 100 participants, that would lead to 1 getting $40,000 funded account after...
and apple sells a phone for $1,000 that cost $50 to make. What is your point?
  • #6,304
  • Mar 19, 2021 11:13am Mar 19, 2021 11:13am
Quoting PaulMF
The scaling plan is not mandatory to parcipate, parcipation fee is. For a talented trader "call charges" will never be a problem because he doesn't have to pay to parcipate. Still don't understand why has to pay at FTMO. That's why I had to make some simple math. I used to make some quick calculations about possible business models and this what comes to my mind when I think about FTMO: Just suppose that what just 1% is capable of passing 3 months steps to get funded. Over 100 participants, that would lead to 1 getting $40,000 funded account after...
That’s the business model. You don’t have to understand or agree with it. It’s a capitalist venture.

Same could be said for an individual account with a broker in general. Traders are having to top off their accounts on a ongoing basis just to stay in the game. The road to success is built on the pathway of blown accounts.

Don’t kid yourself. You’re paying to play, one way or another.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #6,305
  • Mar 19, 2021 11:14am Mar 19, 2021 11:14am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} and apple sells a phone for $1,000 that cost $50 to make. What is your point?
Thanks for your answer.

I'm not talking about business margin nor Apple stock investment.

The point was to explain how difficult I find to pass the FTMO challenge and how profitable could be their business model.


By the way. I asked you in your thread: Why don't you like FIFO?
Always ready to help
  • #6,306
  • Mar 19, 2021 11:26am Mar 19, 2021 11:26am
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} And do you think there are many idiots to interview? or just that the interviewers filtered them?
If they conducted interviews I'm convinced that the people interviewed were not distributed in accordance with a statistically accurate bell curve in term of making/losing money trading. Sorry to say but I don't know any trader that think that trading is the best way to get rich quickly. All traders struggle when they start trading and this is normal but I firmly believe that those that continue trading and apply good money management are way more than 1%. Trading is just like any profession, a person has to learn first then apply what he/she has learned. Even with a win ratio of 40% a trader can still be profitable. Here is the proof from a week of trading a few years back.
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  • #6,307
  • Mar 19, 2021 11:28am Mar 19, 2021 11:28am
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} Thanks for your answer. I'm not talking about business margin nor Apple stock investment. The point was to explain how difficult I find to pass the FTMO challenge and how profitable could be their business model. By the way. I asked you in your thread: Why don't you like FIFO?
Exactly, if you can't pass it, don't take the challenge. I have passed 2 FTMO challenges and recently failed 2 with another prop firm. Their model doesn't fit my trading style. As Cryptosurf has mentioned, numerous times now, if FTMO should screen their traders then so should any broker before accepting a client. Go a step further, I guess Las Vegas should check your gambling history and knowledge before allowing one in the casino. You see where you're trying to go with this?

As far as FIFO, it's a useless rule. I like to scale in and out of positions as I see fit. FIFO has no purpose other than to prevent traders in the US from making money. Completely different subject, but since your checking my posts(??), I have a ton of them on US regulations.
  • #6,308
  • Mar 19, 2021 11:31am Mar 19, 2021 11:31am
Quoting pipmaster77
I have a ton of them on US regulations.
As a US resident, that's a sore subject with me as well.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #6,309
  • Mar 19, 2021 11:44am Mar 19, 2021 11:44am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} As a US resident, that's a sore subject with me as well.
Yes, I am user name grandpipmaster on the baby pips thread, I'm sure you've seen me there. I have relatives that just relocated to St. Lucia, have a 3 year goal to get there myself. Then I can trade with any broker I wish. I even updated my profile here lol. The 'ole think it into existence rule.
  • #6,310
  • Mar 19, 2021 11:48am Mar 19, 2021 11:48am
Quoting PaulMF
The scaling plan is not mandatory to parcipate, parcipation fee is. For a talented trader "call charges" will never be a problem because he doesn't have to pay to parcipate. Still don't understand why has to pay at FTMO. That's why I had to make some simple math. I used to make some quick calculations about possible business models and this what comes to my mind when I think about FTMO: Just suppose that what just 1% is capable of passing 3 months steps to get funded. Over 100 participants, that would lead to 1 getting $40,000 funded account after...
Based on your example, Uhm... FTMO made a good profit.
So? Aren't they in business to make money?

What i fail to understand is why some of us get worked up with how much FTMO is earning from failed challenges instead of concentrating the visions and efforts towards how much they themselves could earn if the had the right approach? And it's always only the people who know or feel they can't achieve the requirements that cry about this while others see it as a solid opportunity.

If you don't think passing the challenge is possible, fine. Leave it to those who think otherwise.

Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, I am user name grandpipmaster on the baby pips thread, I'm sure you've seen me there. I have relatives that just relocated to St. Lucia, have a 3 year goal to get there myself. Then I can trade with any broker I wish. I even updated my profile here lol. The 'ole think it into existence rule.
Lol hold up a second, that cant' be the only reason you'd be moving your whole life down to another country right?
  • #6,311
  • Mar 19, 2021 11:53am Mar 19, 2021 11:53am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Exactly, if you can't pass it, don't take the challenge. I have passed 2 FTMO challenges and recently failed 2 with another prop firm. Their model doesn't fit my trading style. As Cryptosurf has mentioned, numerous times now, if FTMO should screen their traders then so should any broker before accepting a client. Go a step further, I guess Las Vegas should check your gambling history and knowledge before allowing one in the casino. You see where you're trying to go with this? As far as FIFO, it's a useless rule. I like to scale in and out...
FIFO allows you to scale your positions as you want. Never interferes in your posisitions. And the purpose is quite the opposite: to prevent non-professionals to pay more commissions than needed and prevent some brokers to take advantage of non-professionals lack of knowledge.

I can't understand why the NFA fails at explaining this and some still say they pursue to make you lose.
Always ready to help
  • #6,312
  • Mar 19, 2021 11:59am Mar 19, 2021 11:59am
The main idea here is that FTMO doesn't seem to look for good traders. If they ask you to pay a participation fee and set challenge rules that are harder than what any professional does and what they later expect from you. It sounds like: we aren't a propietary trading firm. That's a simple excuse to attract participation fees.
Always ready to help
  • #6,313
  • Mar 19, 2021 12:21pm Mar 19, 2021 12:21pm
Quoting PaulMF
The main idea here is that FTMO doesn't seem to look for good traders. If they ask you to pay a participation fee and set challenge rules that are harder than what any professional does and what they later expect from you. It sounds like: we aren't a propietary trading firm. That's a simple excuse to attract participation fees.
You forgot to prefix it with “In my opinion...”

And that’s all it is.

Like i said before...Don’t kid yourself. You’re paying to play, one way or another.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #6,314
  • Mar 19, 2021 12:58pm Mar 19, 2021 12:58pm
Quoting PaulMF
{quote} FIFO allows you to scale your positions as you want. Never interferes in your posisitions. And the purpose is quite the opposite: to prevent non-professionals to pay more commissions than needed and prevent some brokers to take advantage of non-professionals lack of knowledge. I can't understand why the NFA fails at explaining this and some still say they pursue to make you lose.
Not correct. If I take a position and it goes into profit, so I add another position. I must close that first one first (FIFO). I it goes against me and I wish to average in, let's say the second one is in profit and I wish to close only the profitable portion, once again can't (FIFO). You see my positions are a series of smaller trades. If I plan on a full lot position, this may be split up into 5 x 2 mini lot positions. I wish to move in and out of those as I wish.
  • #6,315
  • Mar 19, 2021 1:02pm Mar 19, 2021 1:02pm
Quoting PaulMF
The main idea here is that FTMO doesn't seem to look for good traders. If they ask you to pay a participation fee and set challenge rules that are harder than what any professional does and what they later expect from you. It sounds like: we aren't a propietary trading firm. That's a simple excuse to attract participation fees.
The brokers aren't looking for good traders either. Look at it this way, I am trading 200K and going to do another 200K, crypto is at 300K on his way to 400K. Our fees have been refunded with first profit split. We now earn profit every month WITHOUT ANY OF OUR CAPITAL AT RISK whatsoever. The folks that fail would've probably spent way more money continuously topping off their personal accounts. If you don't like their model, don't trade with them. As I stated, I just failed two with another firm, guess what.....I'm not going to use them.
I know this has been mentioned before, once you pass the challenge, there are no targets, earn $1 if you'd like. On the challenge, if you are $1 in profit you go again for free. Keep going for free until you have your 10% month.
  • #6,316
  • Mar 19, 2021 1:12pm Mar 19, 2021 1:12pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} The brokers aren't looking for good traders either. Look at it this way, I am trading 200K and going to do another 200K, crypto is at 300K on his way to 400K. Our fees have been refunded with first profit split. We now earn profit every month WITHOUT ANY OF OUR CAPITAL AT RISK whatsoever. The folks that fail would've probably spent way more money continuously topping off their personal accounts. If you don't like their model, don't trade with them. As I stated, I just failed two with another firm, guess what.....I'm not going to use them....
Yeah it’s kind of a no brainer for me. I have 75k in my AMP futures account to trade mini’s and FTMO let’s me trade with 300k of their margin.

I’m cool with not having to use my own $$$ to trade. Crazy as it may seem.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #6,317
  • Mar 19, 2021 1:19pm Mar 19, 2021 1:19pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Yeah it’s kind of a no brainer for me. I have 75k in my AMP futures account to trade mini’s and FTMO let’s me trade with 300k of their margin. I’m cool with not having to use my own $$$ to trade. Crazy as it may seem.
Right, I'm still offshore with $$$ split among 4 brokers, but FTMO allows me to trade with that kind of margin without tying up any additional capital on my end. Even when my profits from my live accounts meet my monthly goals, I'll keep using FTMO, because, well.....why not??
  • #6,318
  • Mar 19, 2021 1:22pm Mar 19, 2021 1:22pm
Quoting Koop
{quote} Based on your example, Uhm... FTMO made a good profit. So? Aren't they in business to make money? What i fail to understand is why some of us get worked up with how much FTMO is earning from failed challenges instead of concentrating the visions and efforts towards how much they themselves could earn if the had the right approach? And it's always only the people who know or feel they can't achieve the requirements that cry about this while others see it as a solid opportunity. If you don't think passing the challenge is possible, fine. Leave...
Nah, Koop, not the only reason, it's a beautiful place. I have others on the radar as well. All outside of the US though.
  • #6,319
  • Edited 1:36pm Mar 19, 2021 1:25pm | Edited 1:36pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} The folks that fail would've probably spent way more money continuously topping off their personal accounts.
I know I have in the past. Even Mark Douglas mentions of his days trading at the CME. Having to repeatedly wire funds in 40-50k at a time to meet margin requirements to stay in the game.

In the past blowing my own account came with zero rules and restrictions attached, so i was free to blow it again with fail.

At least FTMO sets the rules up front.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #6,320
  • Edited 1:56pm Mar 19, 2021 1:46pm | Edited 1:56pm
done and 5 more days to finish another on another firm(target is nearly met), getting close to 1m funds. hopefully more than 2m within the year. its kinda hard to switch between platforms

basixally that was 9 days. 2 were saturday and sunday 0.01 lot trades on bitcoin

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here is the other. target is also 16k and i need 5 more days
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offering my system to copy trade. check my link
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