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FTMO - For serious traders

  • #5,721
  • Feb 13, 2021 2:29pm Feb 13, 2021 2:29pm
Quoting dr_who
Having been around fx and trading in general for over 20 years has taught me one thing at least (and probably a few other things too). That a prop company that asks anyone for money up front just to prove your credentials is 99% certain to be a scam. There is absolutely no other reason for them to ask for money other than to provide them with an income.... My advice is to keep well away from FTMO and any company like them...
Are you saying they don't pay out?
  • #5,722
  • Feb 13, 2021 3:03pm Feb 13, 2021 3:03pm
Quoting dr_who
Having been around fx and trading in general for over 20 years has taught me one thing at least (and probably a few other things too). That a prop company that asks anyone for money up front just to prove your credentials is 99% certain to be a scam. There is absolutely no other reason for them to ask for money other than to provide them with an income.... My advice is to keep well away from FTMO and any company like them...
I can't find a reason why higher fees for higher funding.

Quoting moodybot
Are you saying they don't pay out?
Payout becomes an issue when the fees collected minus cost is not sufficient to cover the payout. Given the low success rate of 0.08% the business model is viable until.
Know what you trade
  • #5,723
  • Feb 13, 2021 3:21pm Feb 13, 2021 3:21pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Are you saying they don't pay out?
I am not sure,but i think they are baced in Canada (Correct me if i am wrong),but if so Canada is bye the most regulated countries and everyting has to be transparent they cant say you are trading the market if you dont that is fraud,but even they are not baced in canada they are regulated that is why they had to fire all the brokers they used to act like a broker them self and in addition they get payed the commision and spread that for me as a scalper is over half my profit...I am in verification stage half way to target and platform and everyting has been just fine other than the 16 min freeze the other day,but i got a email saying they would correct if any losses came out off that freeze...I do agree the most off their income comes from failed challenges,but they need to be transparent abaut everyting else if they are not offshore and i dont think they are(Again correct me if i am wrong)....This my view off this buisness model...

EDIT:I am aware that challenges and verification is done on demo...
Edit:All propfirms has higher price if you choose bigger accounts that is just how it is...Atleast the ones i looked at mayby there are one ore two that dont i havent looked at all,but the majority surely charge more for bigger accounts..Axi mayby different i dont know..
Insanityoing same ting over expecting different results..Einstein
  • #5,724
  • Edited 3:44pm Feb 13, 2021 3:34pm | Edited 3:44pm
Quoting dr_who
Having been around fx and trading in general for over 20 years has taught me one thing at least (and probably a few other things too). That a prop company that asks anyone for money up front just to prove your credentials is 99% certain to be a scam. There is absolutely no other reason for them to ask for money other than to provide them with an income.... My advice is to keep well away from FTMO and any company like them...
Dude -- have you ever run a company? Paid employees and health insurance? Paid for development and maintenance of a web site? Paid for office space? Paid for office equipment? Paid business taxes? Paid licensing fees? Paid for a liquidity provider? Of course not -- that's why you believe that a company should offer its services for free. In addition to paying for costs there are other reasons for paying a fee -- e.g. to restrict enrollment. Can you imagine the overhead if it was free and tens of thousands of traders bombarded their business with trade challenges? How about 1000's of robots entering the free challenges?

The fees are chump change to a "real" trader. You'd pay more to go to a ball game and watch a bunch of guys running around. Why do people keep whining about this? What are they afraid of? What do they have against a business making money? Everyone is suppose to work for free -- except, of course, the whiners...

It's a strange world these days...
  • #5,725
  • Edited 6:09pm Feb 13, 2021 3:38pm | Edited 6:09pm
Here is another take on FTMO

For a fee, you will learn to become a better trader because of their tough trading rules. You will develop a far more responsible attitude in balancing the relationship between trade size and draw down levels and better understand your own emotions when attempting to trade for a living.

Then they refund your learning fee once you achieve trading consistency.

Surely you are now a better trader.

The big question will then be if I can’t survive as a trader following their rules in the Forex market, perhaps the Forex market is just the wrong market for me anyway.
The chances of losing long term by buying stock Indices may be a wiser thing for you, and go and have a more enjoyable life.

I would say I had developed good relationships with quite a few traders here from Forex factory , even traded live with some of them. We have laughed, cried and even made money as well. Five of them after many years of frustrations in the Forex market decided they had to draw a line in the sand as a forex trader. If they couldn’t achieve good profitability by this deadline, it was time to pull the plug and move on with their life.

Remember SirOramgi who used to be a regular poster in this thread. He when through this cycle for years on inconsistent trading so decided FTMO was his last battle, make it or I am out. He was a determined and skillful trader who refused to let anything stop him. One evening he struggled during a live trading session with me because he had Covid, it made trading a tougher task then normal.

Unfortunately he failed to reached his objectives and quit. All five of them quit and probably enjoying life much better now.

Yet here I am still toiling away - I must be mad or achieved some level of probability. I never had to draw a line in the sand but if I did - it would probably end after a paid trial with FTMO.

The suns shines and there is a life out there, make it or move on but just do it real quick.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #5,726
  • Feb 13, 2021 3:44pm Feb 13, 2021 3:44pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} Dude -- have you ever run a company? Paid employees and health insurance? Paid for development and maintenance of a web site? Paid for office space? Paid for office equipment? Of course not -- that's why you believe that a company should offer its services for free. In addition to paying for costs there are other reasons for paying a fee -- e.g. to restrict enrollment. Can you imagine the overhead if it was free and tens of thousands of traders bombarded their business with trade challenges? How about 1000's of robots entering the free challenges?...
I think most people think prop firms are looking for new employees to fill their direction trading desk. So this human resource cost is part of their total business cost to manage their funds. Like with all businesses the cost of employ is part of doing business that potential new employees don't have to contribute towards.

Still the question following your cost recovery rational, is there a higher cost involved in hiring a head of department as compared to a entry level worker? Yes, but in this case of 10k to 100k start up fund allocation is there any difference in the assessment process that incur additional cost?
Know what you trade
  • #5,727
  • Feb 13, 2021 3:47pm Feb 13, 2021 3:47pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} I think most people think prop firms are looking for new employees to fill their direction trading desk. So this human resource cost is part of their total business cost to manage their funds. Like with all businesses the cost of employ is part of doing business that potential new employees don't have to contribute towards. Still the question, is there a higher cost involve in hiring a head of department as compared to a entry level worker? Yes, but in this case of 10k to 100k start up fund allocation is there any difference in the assessment...
Why does one kind off chocolatbar cost 1 dollar and another 4 dollars even same size???lol...And yes if you loose 10% off a 100k account they loose a lot more than if max loss reached on a 10k account that is 9k in difference...
Insanityoing same ting over expecting different results..Einstein
  • #5,728
  • Feb 13, 2021 3:50pm Feb 13, 2021 3:50pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} I think most people think prop firms are looking for new employees to fill their direction trading desk. So this human resource cost is part of their total business cost to manage their funds. Like with all businesses the cost of employ is part of doing business that potential new employees don't have to contribute towards. Still the question, is there a higher cost involve in hiring a head of department as compared to a entry level worker? Yes, but in this case of 10k to 100k start up fund allocation is there any difference in the assessment...
You still don't get it -- if they offered the challenges for free how many tens of thousands of people would attempt it? Do you understand that a web site and backend processing doesn't just automatically appear with a snap of your fingers? Managing a free site with 1000's of visitors and all their data? And they have to pay hundreds of thousands to MetaQuotes for a branded MT4? And a liquidity provider? And taxes? And licensing? And legal fees? And a couple years setting it all up? Holy shit -- we're talking about at least 500K / year to run a bare-bones business. And you expect them to just give it to you for free and to also survive as a business? You people whine like spoiled children...
  • #5,729
  • Feb 13, 2021 3:56pm Feb 13, 2021 3:56pm
Quoting robots4me
You still don't get it -- if they offered the challenges for free how many tens of thousands of people would attempt it? Do you understand that a web site and backend processing doesn't just automatically appear with a snap of your fingers? Managing a free site with 1000's of visitors and all their data? And they have to pay hundreds of thousands to MetaQuote for a branded MT4? Holy shit -- we're talking about at least 500K / year to run a bare bones business. And you expect them to just give it to you for free and to also survive as a business?...
Businesses spend millions for their human resource department. How much would Goldman Sachs human resource department cost? How many thousand applicants wrote in to attempt get the job? How much more work for human resource employees to vet through each application to determine whether job requirements are met? Did they require potential new employees pay fees as cost recovery like you suggested?
Know what you trade
  • #5,730
  • Feb 13, 2021 4:01pm Feb 13, 2021 4:01pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} I think most people think prop firms are looking for new employees to fill their direction trading desk. So this human resource cost is part of their total business cost to manage their funds. Like with all businesses the cost of employ is part of doing business that potential new employees don't have to contribute towards. Still the question following your cost recovery rational, is there a higher cost involved in hiring a head of department as compared to a entry level worker? Yes, but in this case of 10k to 100k start up fund allocation...
"I think most people think prop firms are looking for new employees to fill their direction trading desk."

Huh -- so, now, you're into mind reading? Why are people trying to figure out a prop firm's intention? Isn't it obvious? If not I'll help you -- they are in business to MAKE MONEY!! Just like you are trading forex to MAKE MONEY!! They offer a service -- if you want their service then you pay for it. If you don't want their service then you don't pay for it. Just like the theater -- if you want to see a show then you pay MONEY for it. If you don't want to see the show then you don't pay MONEY for it.

Geez...
  • #5,731
  • Feb 13, 2021 4:04pm Feb 13, 2021 4:04pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Businesses spend millions for their human resource department. How much would Goldman Sachs human resource department cost? How many thousand applicants wrote in to attempt get the job? How much more work for human resource employees to vet through each application to determine whether job requirements are met? Did they require potential new employees pay fees as cost recovery like you suggested?
"How much more work for human resource employees to vet through each application to determine whether job requirements are met?"

Is this a rhetorical question? Are you suggesting that it costs Goldman Sach's human resource department next to nothing to process 1000's of job applications? @BWilliam -- I used to take you seriously. This has now become a joke.
  • #5,732
  • Feb 13, 2021 4:06pm Feb 13, 2021 4:06pm
Quoting robots4me
"I think most people think prop firms are looking for new employees to fill their direction trading desk." Huh -- so, now, you're into mind reading? Why are people trying to figure out a prop firm's intention? Isn't it obvious? If not I'll help you -- they are in business to MAKE MONEY!! Just like you are trading forex to MAKE MONEY!! They offer a service -- if you want their service then you pay for it. If you don't want their service then you don't pay for it. Just like the theater -- if you want to see a show then you pay MONEY for it....
Let's just say that your attempt to offer cost recovery explanation is not good enough for some members who wrote on this thread their views. They have a different point of view and they made their views known with their posts and that's their right. You have made yours, another different view. Your posts seem to show you get offended with different views, you might as well be the only person posting here. Just saying.
Know what you trade
  • #5,733
  • Edited 8:09pm Feb 13, 2021 4:16pm | Edited 8:09pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} "How much more work for human resource employees to vet through each application to determine whether job requirements are met?" Is this a rhetorical question? Are you suggesting that it costs Goldman Sach's human resource department next to nothing to process 1000's of job applications? @BWilliam -- I used to take you seriously. This has now become a joke.
Everyone knows businesses spend a lot of money in their human resource department. You just validated my point. How you come to this conclusion that I am suggesting that it cost next to nothing is something I won't understand, simply beyond me. Anyway I limit my post on here so carry on this thread's discussion with only your view.
Know what you trade
  • #5,734
  • Feb 13, 2021 4:22pm Feb 13, 2021 4:22pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Everyone knows businesses spend a lot of money in their human resource department. How you come to this conclusion that I am suggesting that it cost next to nothing is something I won't understand, simply beyond me. Anyway I limit my post on here so carry on this thread's discussion with only your view.
Ok this is my last post here,and again the 10% loss on 100k account vs a 10 ore 25k account is way more that is some off the reason a bigger account has a bigger fee..And if,again and if,they do pay the profits out off their own pocket that someone claims the profit on a 100k account is potentially to make more profit than on a smaller account....Ok i am out..GOOD LUCK TO ALL THAT DO TRY..
Insanityoing same ting over expecting different results..Einstein
  • #5,735
  • Edited 5:10pm Feb 13, 2021 4:51pm | Edited 5:10pm
Quoting FXsniper111
Ok this is my last post here,and again the 10% loss on 100k account vs a 10 ore 25k account is way more that is some off the reason a bigger account has a bigger fee..And if,again and if,they do pay the profits out off their own pocket that someone claims the profit on a 100k account is potentially to make more profit than on a smaller account....Ok i am out..GOOD LUCK TO ALL THAT DO TRY..
Last comment.

Your interesting risk mitigation explanation is different from the cost recovery model that Robots4me propose.
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...3#post13408203
Know what you trade
  • #5,736
  • Feb 13, 2021 4:54pm Feb 13, 2021 4:54pm
Quoting dr_who
Having been around fx and trading in general for over 20 years has taught me one thing at least (and probably a few other things too). That a prop company that asks anyone for money up front just to prove your credentials is 99% certain to be a scam. There is absolutely no other reason for them to ask for money other than to provide them with an income.... My advice is to keep well away from FTMO and any company like them...
By saying this you show that you haven't bothered reading any of the important discussions in here.
Thank you for your advice, it's nice of you, you can now move on to other threads as this one is not for you.
  • #5,737
  • Feb 13, 2021 6:24pm Feb 13, 2021 6:24pm
Quoting dr_who
Having been around fx and trading in general for over 20 years has taught me one thing at least (and probably a few other things too). That a prop company that asks anyone for money up front just to prove your credentials is 99% certain to be a scam. There is absolutely no other reason for them to ask for money other than to provide them with an income.... My advice is to keep well away from FTMO and any company like them...
I would say most traders that paid for a challenge would come out the other end a better trader. Suddenly they would start focus on their trading results correctly.

This would be a more interesting question -

"Is there a trader who has failed a challenge once or twice before obtaining a funded account who has improved their Money Management skills?

My guess is every single bloody trader -
What training course can offer those stats -

Personally I see only value in this point, whether you see a second cheque for me is invalid
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #5,738
  • Feb 13, 2021 6:37pm Feb 13, 2021 6:37pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} I would say most traders that paid for a challenge would come out the other end a better trader. Suddenly they would start focus on their trading results correctly. This would be a more interesting question - "Is there a trader who has failed a challenge once or twice before obtaining a funded account who has improved their Money Management skills? My guess is every single bloody trader - What training course can offer those stats - Personally I see only value in this point, whether you see a second cheque for me is invalid
"Is there a trader who has failed a challenge once or twice before obtaining a funded account who has improved their Money Management skills?

Hello @RickM -- friend -- why not give it a try yourself to find out?
  • #5,739
  • Feb 13, 2021 6:49pm Feb 13, 2021 6:49pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Let's just say that your attempt to offer cost recovery explanation is not good enough for some members who wrote on this thread their views. They have a different point of view and they made their views known with their posts and that's their right. You have made yours, another different view. Your posts seem to show you get offended with different views, you might as well be the only person posting here. Just saying.
"Your posts seem to show you get offended with different views, you might as well be the only person posting here. Just saying."

@BWilliam -- you have a point. I know my posts are often kind of rude. It's not that I am offended but, rather, flabbergasted at the things grown men tend to whine about -- over, and over, and over again.

@BWilliam -- it is self-demeaning for grown men to whine about whether FTMO should or shouldn't charge a fee. Considering there's a pandemic and millions of people's lives have been devasted, I just would have expected the level of discussion to be a few notches higher. It is self-demeaning for grown men to whine. My posts are partly to share my point of view but, also, to shame the whiners to put on their big boy pants and move forward. Hate me for saying it -- I'm fine with that -- but in the end I hope you come out stronger and can find things less shallow to discuss and devote your mental energies to...
  • #5,740
  • Edited 8:19pm Feb 13, 2021 6:59pm | Edited 8:19pm
Quoting robots4me
"Your posts seem to show you get offended with different views, you might as well be the only person posting here. Just saying." @BWilliam -- you have a point. I know my posts are often kind of rude. It's not that I am offended but, rather, flabbergasted at the things grown men tend to whine about -- over, and over, and over again. @BWilliam -- it is self-demeaning for grown men to whine about whether FTMO should or shouldn't charge a fee. Considering there's a pandemic and millions of people's lives have been devasted, I just would have...
If you read this thread you find there's this group of members who get offended by other members who post different views. Read their response and the likes that follow. If this is the case, which is true for all threads, might as well don't have discussion. Discussion means grown men quarrel and fight on FF. Remember George drama.

Edit - there's more credibility if those offended members post on here how much payout they receive over a course of say 1year. 3 years is better. Until then.

Edit - I'm well aware robots4me is not offended, learnt that years ago. You're hated and I'm called the fool with no pair.
Know what you trade
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