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Attachments: In 2021, day trading in Germany will be dead
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In 2021, day trading in Germany will be dead

I had a look on the statement. Yes, the net loss is displayed. Never taught about that....

Found a video on Tom next about the situation...

Thanks for your reply.

Best
Chriss
Quoting thevisitor
The problem is that the big boys (hedge funds etc.) are not affected ... that's a big, big scam!! only the "small " trader and investor is the big a$$...!!
Yes. And it's very frustrating. It's almost like capitalism is great as long as it keeps poor people... poor.

I have the solution for you but check it out with your accountant.
Become an E-RESIDENT of estonia & start a company there
https://e-resident.gov.ee/start-a-company/

All your trading winnings and losses are now in Estonia under a company which means
you can deduct losses. At the end of the year get all income as dividends.
You will still pay tax in Germany where "The withholding tax rate on dividends in Germany is 25%"
Flat rate, just awesome to make more money.

Warning
You should really do this if you are a big shark (e.g making $20k or more a year in trading)
While it's easy to become e-resident, it's so much more difficult to open the company &
open a bank account if you don't have at least $5k. Do your own research
Start here: https://blog.xolo.io/9-things-you-ne...y-cff0013f18fb
Hello everyone, I hope someone can help me cause I am totally confused and my German is also not that good...

I am living in Germany and day trade only US stocks (using Interactive Brokers), using a 1:4 margin. Does the new regulation applies to me? Or does it apply only to option trading?

Thanks a lot!
Quoting iulianivg
{quote} Yes. And it's very frustrating. It's almost like capitalism is great as long as it keeps poor people... poor. I have the solution for you but check it out with your accountant. Become an E-RESIDENT of estonia & start a company there https://e-resident.gov.ee/start-a-company/ All your trading winnings and losses are now in Estonia under a company which means you can deduct losses. At the end of the year get all income as dividends. You will still pay tax in Germany where "The withholding tax rate on dividends in Germany is 25%"...
Sorry, but you already stepped into the trap, you will be HIGHLY taxed in Germany!!

According to german tax code your foreign company will be fully taxable (in addition to the foreign taxation), if the business is run from Germany ( place of decisions). Even if you have in estonia a local CEO (or server running). Only if your foreign investment is an investment only and that firm runs on its own decisions, you only receiving quaterly reports, you will be safe. This is already practiced since 50 years.

You guys should ask a german tax advisor what the following words mean: Umgehungstatbestand, Gestaltungsmissbrauch, Briefkastenfirma

Good luck!
Quoting fr39
Hello everyone, I hope someone can help me cause I am totally confused and my German is also not that good... I am living in Germany and day trade only US stocks (using Interactive Brokers), using a 1:4 margin. Does the new regulation applies to me? Or does it apply only to option trading? Thanks a lot!
I understand that using "margin" you are trading CFDs, then It applies fully. If you actually trade only the stock,then it doesn´t.
Margin and leverage are the problems. CFDs and options, futures,. derivates and so on.
Pure stock trading get´s taxed "normally".
Quoting fr39
Hello everyone, I hope someone can help me cause I am totally confused and my German is also not that good... I am living in Germany and day trade only US stocks (using Interactive Brokers), using a 1:4 margin. Does the new regulation applies to me? Or does it apply only to option trading? Thanks a lot!
It's not good. How do you currently handle taxes?
Quoting cuchuflito
Had to move my Oanda account Uk to EU as suggested by the broker. After the hassle, now up and running, but they gave me a call last night. To comply with regulations, they reduced the margin I had, to 30.1. I´ve been with them for almost 15 years, it used to be 100.1 I guess they want to bring it down to 1.1 And then definitely kill this business. I Love Europe, but I don´t blame my very good UK friends that voted for Brexit, they say the EU is now communist, probably not that exaggerated lol....
What is the difference between having an account at Oanda UK and Oanda Europe?
Quoting MCFly
{quote} What is the difference between having an account at Oanda UK and Oanda Europe?
If you are a German citizen, in terms of taxes, none.Looks like OANDA will push all EU clients slowly to Oanda Europ. That´s more a Brexit consequence.
Thx for your answer. What about the Abgeltungssteuer? If I'm not mistaken Oanda overseas doesn't retain the tax. What about Oanda UK/Europe?
Quoting MCFly
Thx for your answer. What about the Abgeltungssteuer? If I'm not mistaken Oanda overseas doesn't retain the tax. What about Oanda UK/Europe?
I don´t think they do, you need to double-check everything, it´s a time of changes...Finanzamt "promised" to clarify soon, which products would be exactly affected.
In the meantime, it looks like pretty much all options and CFDs." Derivate".
Often you get the feeling they really don´t know exactly, they just want to collect $, and get votes for the SPD while punishing the bad boys who speculate.
You can still buy a lottery though, that is tax-free. especially the state lottery. Remember "Schein Gehabt"?
I love nature and green but hate communism.
Chances are sweet Analena will win the elections, and will probably marry the socialists, even the communists. In any case, with these people, you can really forget about trading in Germany one way or the other. They adore taxes and hate traders. They stated that very very clearly.
Quoting cuchuflito
I love nature and green but hate communism. Chances are sweet Analena will win the elections, and will probably marry the socialists, even the communists. In any case, with these people, you can really forget about trading in Germany one way or the other. They adore taxes and hate traders. They stated that very very clearly.
I do not think analena are win election or part of it. Germans like to travel, like to drive big cars, hate to buy expensive fuel, hate to pay more and more taxes. Next rocket against many of the people who have small income is the increased years from 67 to 69 retirement. Study point that these out and must be done for all the cost the Corona bring us.
Market is more simple as you think.
Quoting MichaelSch
{quote} I do not think analena are win election or part of it. Germans like to travel, like to drive big cars, hate to buy expensive fuel, hate to pay more and more taxes. Next rocket against many of the people who have small income is the increased years from 67 to 69 retirement. Study point that these out and must be done for all the cost the Corona bring us.
Is Germany going back in time? When Bismarck introduced social security the age required to qualify was 70 years old and was reduced to 65 years old only in 1916. 69 doesn't look that bad since, on average, we live a lot longer now than people did in 1916.
Quoting Hutch
{quote} Is Germany going back in time? When Bismarck introduced social security the age required to qualify was 70 years old and was reduced to 65 years old only in 1916. 69 doesn't look that bad since, on average, we live a lot longer now than people did in 1916.
LOL.
Please read some study how long people live with small income. What do you think how long can you work in the jobs that done by people who are not have the school background, have bad jobs?
Some do not reach yet 67, die before and increasing this is something make money free that must not pay these people after years hard working years. Sorry the system is one sided, was ever and will be ever.

Search this... Jeder fünfte stirbt vor 69... On tagesschau
Market is more simple as you think.
Quoting MichaelSch
{quote} LOL. Please read some study how long people live with small income. What do you think how long can you work in the jobs that done by people who are not have the school background, have bad jobs? Some do not reach yet 67, die before and increasing this is something make money free that must not pay these people after years hard working years. Sorry the system is one sided, was ever and will be ever. Search this... Jeder fünfte stirbt vor 69... On tagesschau
The fact is most state retirement plans are a rip-off. Start working with 20 years, divide your retirement money into 3, Stock Index, Bonds, and Gold.(or any non-correlated rather conservative investment) Pay every month till you are 65, you will be rich. And if you die on the way or later, your family gets all of it. And not "Papa State".
On top of that, any country that applies such a system will see its stock index soaring, and even better, the companies will get a constant cash flow, every month, which will increase their growing power, for the benefit of the country and their workers...and the "individual retirements". That´s what I call a win/win situation.It will never happen though. Papa State will never give their business away.
Quoting MichaelSch
{quote} LOL. Please read some study how long people live with small income. What do you think how long can you work in the jobs that done by people who are not have the school background, have bad jobs? Some do not reach yet 67, die before and increasing this is something make money free that must not pay these people after years hard working years. Sorry the system is one sided, was ever and will be ever.
Although life today is a lot better than when Bismarck introduced social security I must agree with you that's it's not rosy. Most people with a lack of education normally end up in bad jobs that barely pay enough to properly raise their families. What is worse is that the children of these people too often end up the same way. Lots of people want to immigrate to my country, the US, because they think it's the best country to live in the world. This is far from the truth but each country need people to the shitty menial work that most people don't want to do.

Talking about people that don't reach 67 my mother passed away at the age of 52 and my father at 65 because the US doesn't have a universal medical system like the one in Germany and my father couldn't afford the high medical costs.

I also lived in Belgium, China, Croatia, Luxembourg and now in Cyprus and the social security system of each of these countries is better than that of the US. The US has the best universities and the best medical facilities in the world but only for those who can afford it. A good example is that I had a head trauma while living in China and my doctor said that I should to see a neurologist. I saw a neurologist the next day at 10am, he examined me, gave me a radiography and a MRI and told me to come back at 2pm. When I came back he gave me a written report, prescribed some medicaments and gave me a booklet on how to do some exercise to relieve neck pain. The total cost of all this was about $30. In the US I would have had to wait at least a few weeks before seeing a neurologist and it would have cost me at least $1,000.

You might think that the social security of your country is not the best but it's a lot better than most. Otherwise you would not have the flow of illegal immigrants from Africa and Asia that are escaping their countries to go to Europe for a better life.
Back to the original subject here. The law is fully active now, the Finanzministrium promised to give clarity, as to which instruments it will apply to exactly.
They are probably trying to learn how to even pronounce their names. In between, of course, Covid, so they are mostly at "home-office" watching Netflix. They are in absolutely no hurry.

At the end of the day, it is either leave the country or open a GMBH. I read a lot about the latter. Opinions are divided, but to my understanding, it is a real possibility.
Wonder if people here dug deeper into the subject.
Are there any Germans left on this thread? Did this tax impact you in anyway? Im not German but its so scary for the industry if governments start doing similar things across the world. From what I can tell you can get around it by setting up a small company and operate it as a trading business?
Quoting Tomhgriff1
Are there any Germans left on this thread? Did this tax impact you in anyway? Im not German but its so scary for the industry if governments start doing similar things across the world. From what I can tell you can get around it by setting up a small company and operate it as a trading business?


By opening a GmbH (company) you are not longer a non professional for the authoroties.
datafeed for futures and software licenses are higher-- additional annual financial statements by a tax consultant , lawyer, reporting..

.. is also on that bill..

I have additional costs to get the same thing around 10-15k p.A since Olaf manipulated our taxes.

I decided for 2021 to stay private and take the punch.
I´ll go the way through the council for my rights then.
The future(s) is mine!Risiko birgt immer auch die Chance.
Wait for the time after the vote, september. I smell massive cuts in many fields. Someone must pay for all the mess we have actual, the pandemic trouble, the trouble with the massive damages through the weather.

Someone must tell the people that it comes big! We will have the a bad vote with unclear direction as many other countrys also.
Germany is on the way to loose the stable formation after and after.
Market is more simple as you think.
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