Traders4traders or the5ers?

i planing to join to one of them but i confusing. . I curious if someone else tried or have comment

traders4traders or the5ers?

i feeling that rules at traders4traders look like a trap? any advice?

so if i enrolled in 25,000$ program my maximum loss limit is set at $24,000 , if i opened trade that achieved 200$ unrealized profit is that mean my max loss limit will become 24,200? even if trade closed on loss? with that term i can find myself end with small maximum loss that not enough to take trade..

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that rule also making me feel like i can't take benefits .... if i trade with 25,000 and i turned it to 26,000 that will take my maximum loss limit from 24,000 to 25,000 ... if i withdraw that 1000$ i made then my account will close!
and if i continue and turned it to 27,000 that will take my maximum loss limit from 25,000 to 26,000 ... if i withdraw that 1000$ i made then my account will close still too !!!


i don't know if i understand right or i missing something here

Hi rtkwar,
It's Brad from Traders4Traders here. There are lots of good programs out there these days so it's wise to go through the Rules etc with a fine-tooth comb. Let me explain your concerns about our Rules.

The Trailing Maximum Loss Limit - this was updated a short while ago specifically to make it easier to understand. There are 2 important things to understand. First, 'unrealized profits' do not count. The profits have to be locked in to count. Secondly, the 'Trailing Maximum Loss Limit' is really only in play at the initial stages of the program. It is supposed to stop traders who make some initial profits and then put all the profits on the next trade. We want responsible risk managers, not rogue traders 'betting it all' on the next trade. Once the trailing maximum loss limit reaches your starting balance it remains static (doesn't move) for the duration of the assessment. So you really do have the freedom to move once you surpass 4% in profits.


Withdrawals - when you start trading we wear the risk of you losing our cash. But once you are funded and making money we want you to take responsibility for your account. You're more likely to do this if you are in control of the withdrawal process. If you took out all the profits then we would be back to wearing all the risk for your account again. In my opinion, that's 2 bites of the cherry. So what you need to factor in with your withdrawals, is leaving some cash in the account for you to trade with. Plus the idea is, the more cash you have in your account the higher your profit share. So you are being rewarded for building your account instead of just emptying it each month. I would imagine if you had your own personal account you wouldn't take all of your profits out and then go through the 'pressure phase' of rebuilding profits again. It's a lot easier trading with profits you've made then raw cash that you could lose.

As I mentioned there are a number of programs to consider: FTMO, the5ers, One Up trader, Topstep FX and of course Traders4Traders. Give them a good look through before deciding your trading future.

I hope that makes sense. If it doesn't let me know and I'll do my best to answer your question.

thank you Brad for your reply and of course i still have a lot of questions that need answers from you .... but first let me pull your attention about issue at traders4traders that since 2 weeks i sending emails and send through live chat (that offline already) and that's reason i late to post my reply here .... i wanted to test response of your firm but unfortunately i feel like i am in abandon website and no one reply or read what clients sending...

back to our topic about rules i keep reading your rules and there is some rules i can't get it yet:

1-as i understand weekly loss limit calculate every friday at 5pm and set at monday to the new value then stay static remain the week but i have to be careful in case max loss limit under starting balance so trailing maximum loss not supersede weekly loss limit.

as i understand from what i read at website that's apply also at live account not just assessment stage? so if i start with 100,000 account and i made 4000$ that take my max loss from 96,000 to 100,000 then that's remain static and never trailing anymore as you mentioned at your website here:
but how remain static while it's should increase as scaling plan also in rules you say:
can you explain???

2-you wrote that at website:

A-at first paragraph , can you explain to me how you calculated maximum loss and how became 35000?based on scaling plan if i made 50% from 100000 that will make my maximum loss 15000$ so how if i made 60%(60,000 profit) that will take my maximum loss to 35,000$? please explain to me how you calculate that.

B-at second paragraph, if they withdraw 50,000 that leaving them with maximum loss limit of 10,000$?
based on scaling plan page if there is 10% profit of 100,000 account that will take maximum loss limit be 6000$ , so if they withdraw 50,000 that's should make their max loss limit is 6000$ not 10000$? so if you can please explain it to me i think i misunderstand something here.

-------------------------------payment question-------
1-how you pay profits to traders... are there is possibility to send it to Skrill or no?
2-you mentioned that in your rules page , what's that mean?
---------------some rules that you may need to consider in it again---
1-

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close trades at weekend or trader will lose and have to reset his account

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i think it's would be better if you have option that close all trades automatically before few minutes from market close because i don't see reason to make trader loss and pay again for that reason ... things like fall sleep , lost connection, any emergency cases can make trader not able to close his trades at the time so will be nice if you consider that suggestion.

2-

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every trade must attached with sl

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yes stop loss very important , but in way that you described in rules making lose account so easy ... you said trader must attach sl to trade before he post it even ... even if he put the trade and set his sl after one second that's make him lose and he should reset his account again .... that's rule really need to remove ... you already set maximum weekly and total loss which is enough ... and if you want to set stop loss rule it's must be more realistic not in way that making so easy to tell trader he lost his account ... what if i forgot to set my sl before click sell or buy , then i lose account that easy? , before few days my laptop lag and i clicked by mistake and opened trade while i was try to fix it but i closed it immediately so based on your rules that small accident is enough to make me lose everything .. things can happen and i don't see any logic reason for make traders lose their accounts and pay again reset fees for that simple things , if you want to set stoploss rule then just evaluate traders and traders who really not set stoploss will lose , but not in the way you described in rules.

3-last point is trading halt during news, as i understand i can trade any time even at news time until your team send notification to stop all trading activity due to important news or event, but what if trader wasn't available? what if trader don't have internet access to close his trades or what if he in his daily job and didn't get your notification and he didn't get chance to close his trades? you didn't mention procedure that you take with him, are you tell him he lost and have to pay again ? or you close his trades from your side?

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last question : are you offer statistics that show trader performance at your platform after trader decided to join to one of your fund programs?

Looking forward to hear from you.

Hi Rtkwar,
My apologies for the lack of response on our site. We had a few of our broader IT teams impacted by the lockdowns and that has impacted our customer support team. So we were prioritizing and focusing on current clients' needs instead of facilitating new client inquiries. I can see how that would be a major inconvenience.

You are asking some very good questions and alongside the current volatility, we have updated the rules to clarify a few things.

Answer to Q1 - Last week we had a large number of traders progress from the Practical Assessment through to the Live accounts. The majority of these traders blew their accounts up within 1-2 days. Now, most were making money but they were breaching the 'Do Not Exceed the Trailing Maximum Loss Limit' Rule.

On the LIVE accounts, this Rule has always been in play. But for the Practical Assessment, we had the 'Trailing Maximum Loss Limit' stopping at your Starting Balance.

This structure, of two different sets of Rules, was not adequately preparing traders to manage our Live trading accounts. So last week we adjusted the Practical Assessment Rules to be exactly the same as the Live Trading Rules.

All traders need to factor this into their capital management. The 'Trailing Maximum Loss Limit' Rule is as follows:

The Trailing Maximum Loss Limit (as the name implies) trails your highest account balance throughout the Practical Assessment. If you add profits, the Maximum Loss Limit also moves higher. If you have lost money, the Maximum loss limit remains the same as the previous day.

If you hit or exceed the Maximum Loss Limit at any time, with realized or unrealized losses, your account will be disabled. Any open trades may not be auto-liquidated; however, your account will become ineligible for a Funding. To continue with the opportunity for funding, your practical assessment account requires a reset.

Full Rule explanation: https://traders4traders.com/forex-fu...-trader-rules/

This adjustment will not affect many traders, but it will slow down rogue traders who are trying to hit the Profit Targets in a single day.

Answer to Q2A - We have also updated and simplified the Live Scaling Plan.

Calculating the Trailing Maximum Loss Limit - we originally had large loss limits for the live accounts but that too became problematic when traders were risking large portions of their profits. So to start with the Trailing Maximum Loss limit is twice the Weekly Loss Limit. Once the trader reaches 20% profit the Trailing Maximum Loss Limit stays at 10% of the highest account balance. So at $150,000, the trader can afford to lose $15,000.

2B - You are correct. If they withdraw $50,000 their Trailing Maximum Loss Limit will be $6,000. I think you must have been reviewing the page as we were updating it and that's where the confusion was coming into play.

Payment Questions
1 - At the moment you can pay via PayPal, Wire Transfer or Cryptos. We are adding some payment solutions in the not too distant future and we will definitely consider Skrill.

2 - Due to anti-money laundering rules, we need to pay the trader back via the same method they signed up to our program with.

Rule changes that should be considered

1. No Open Positions over the weekend - the markets are not open over the weekend so there is nothing to gain except adding 'unlimited risk' to the accounts. It may seem like a nice idea but I can tell you as a fund manager it is a nightmare situation and totally unrealistic. With the potential for catastrophic news over the weekend having open positions over the weekend can cripple a company in minutes so unfortunately this rule change will not be considered.

2. Every Trade Must have a Stop Loss attached - once again in this day and age a trader that is not prepared before they open a position is a risk waiting to happen. We previously allowed traders to add a stop loss after the position was open but that became a big problem as traders started using excuses and extending the time to add the stop loss. So we made the rule 'Black and White'. You need to have a stop-loss order attached before opening the position or it will be a breach of the rules. In fact, the new backend software we are working on will not allow you to place the trade without a stop loss. So that will stop you breaching the rules and remind you to add one. This software will hopefully be launched in the coming weeks. There are loads of EA tools on the internet which will add the stop loss at the time of execution.

If a trader makes a genuine mistake we, of course, will look at the situation and we can amend the error.

So the software updates are all about 'stopping the trader from breaching the rules'. The trader will not be allowed to trade bigger than the maximum cumulative trade size and add stop-loss orders outside the available limits. So we will have fewer traders breaching the rules and paying resets and we should get more traders through the program onto funded accounts.

3. You can trade through all economic data releases. But if there is a serious international event that creates crazy volatility etc we will close all positions down manually. We will alert all traders asap and close the positions at our end. So the trader needed not to worry if they can't access their trading platform. We have never needed to halt trading but if we did all traders would be notified and we will close out all positions so there is no breach fro not having a position open.

Trader Statistics - we don't have a collective trader performance system but it is something we are looking to add asap. Traders who come through our training programs are guaranteed funded trading accounts so they generally take their time and are more successful. Traders who come through our 'Funding Program' are from all walks of life and their results are varied.

I think by making the Practical Assessment exactly the same as the Live Trading Accounts Rules we will see more consistent results on the live accounts for these traders. As I mentioned earlier, we have had a run of traders progressing from the assessment to the live accounts and failing within 1-2 days because they were not used to using a trailing maximum loss limit whilst also trading in 'extremely volatile' and tricky market conditions.

Brad

thank you for reply and made things clear ..
and yes wish things improve like add warning emails to warn traders if they made mistake instead of end their challenge without warning ... also stop loss improve that forbid traders from set trade without sl .. so traders who used to set stoploss after open trade not have to worry if they forget ..
and that's great to make assessment account same as live one ..

Hi,

Still having some confusion with the Weekly Loss Limit.

Below shows Weekly Loss Limit $4000 when profit reached 10%


Below shows Weekly Loss Limit $3000 when profit reached 10%


Below says Weekly Loss Limit increased to 5% when profit reached 10% but above two are not

Could you please clarify the confusion.
Thanks

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