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FTMO - For serious traders

  • #5,541
  • Feb 5, 2021 1:52am Feb 5, 2021 1:52am
Quoting Koop
{quote} I don't know why another person's success rate should matter to you when everything that guarantees either your own success or failure is absolutely dependent on you. I don't know anyone on these forums who's even been trading with them for that long, most seem to have only taken the challenge late last year. But feel free to look on youtube or facebook. I've seen two or 3 traders talk about their 6 months journey and 1 year respectively. Someone else posted a myfxbook link here last year of someone who was profitable for 4 months straight...
Hi Koop

This thread started 3 and a half years with many followers from Forex Factory reading the posts here. So far, I am only aware of Pipmaster77 being the only Forex factory member to stay actually stay alive for at least 6 months as a FTMO trader.
I must say I have traded live with two former members of this thread, and will be trading live with two current members of this thread when I finish this post. So I understand the challenges and mental struggles first hand.

As I see it, the battle is not completing the Challenge and passing verification, the real challenge is staying alive with FTMO when you let your guard down.
So my point is why is it so hard to stay a long time member trading a live account with FTMO.

So we have ONE member in 3.5 years, is there anyone else here I can include in that list.
You can see my angle can't you, the Challenge & verification is not the hard part - over confidence when trading a live account may be the hardest part.

Cheers
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #5,542
  • Feb 5, 2021 2:06am Feb 5, 2021 2:06am
Quoting robots4me
Hello @BWilliam... Regarding prop trading -- one thing it seems the naysayers are missing is that personal and prop trading are not mutually exclusive -- it's like having 2 cars in the garage. If you like your personal account you can continue trading it. It's not carved in stone you can't trade both if you want. I really don't get what the deal is -- it's just another iron in the fire. The only cost, really, is your time. Not that your time isn't valuable -- you just need to figure whether the time you spend trading a prop account...
Hi robots4me, I think the specific point of this current discussion is contained in these posts made by members who have real experience.
Read the final post for summary.

https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...8#post13395418
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...8#post13395628
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...4#post13395704
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...aders?page=278

Quoting robots4me
The only cost, really, is your time. Not that your time isn't valuable -- you just need to figure whether the time you spend trading a prop account aligns with the potential benefits. Yes -- I know it's not exactly free --
This time can be used to do something else other than prop trading which comes with the baggage of limitations not unlike any employment scenario with this extra 0.08% space to succeed. Point to consider.
Know what you trade
  • #5,543
  • Feb 5, 2021 2:18am Feb 5, 2021 2:18am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi Koop This thread started 3 and a half years with many followers from Forex Factory reading the posts here. So far, I am only aware of Pipmaster77 being the only Forex factory member to stay actually stay alive for at least 6 months as a FTMO trader. I must say I have traded live with two former members of this thread, and will be trading live with two current members of this thread when I finish this post. So I understand the challenges and mental struggles first hand. As I see it, the battle is not completing the Challenge and passing...
"why is it so hard to stay a long time member trading a live account with FTMO."

@RickM -- I have an answer, though I'm sure there are more. It's because for most traders it requires adapting to a set of constaints that we've never had to deal with before. And the constraints are absolutely valid because we are trading someone else's money, which we've never done before.

I mostly trade algorithmically, with some discretionary, and I've always been focused on maximizing profit. When trading a personal account you have the luxury of time being on your side to allow those DD to eventually resolve. With prop trading you don't have that luxury of time to resolve DD. So, I think the biggest challenge for most traders would be a transition from focusing on maximizing profit to focusing on minimizing DD.

Minimizing DD doesn't seem very sexy. However, with patience, you can grow that prop account bigger than your personal account (because the prop firm increases the size of the account when you reach milestones). And there is a sweet spot where a strategy trading on a large account that minimizes DD can earn more than a strategy trading on a smaller account that maximizes profit. Not sure if I articulated that clearly -- hopefully you get the point...
  • #5,544
  • Feb 5, 2021 2:20am Feb 5, 2021 2:20am
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Hi robots4me, I think the specific point of this current discussion is contained in these posts made by members who have real experience. Read the final post for summary. https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...8#post13395418 https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...8#post13395628 https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...4#post13395704 https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...aders?page=278 {quote} This time can be used to do something else...
Hey @BWilliam -- maybe I overestimated your reading comprehension -- my apologies...
  • #5,545
  • Feb 5, 2021 2:24am Feb 5, 2021 2:24am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I earned my funded account in September, so not quite 6 months. I am currently in the process of getting funded with another firm as well. I will be adding a 3rd and possibly a 4th mid year. I still don't understand the question though, it's the same as asking who has survived six months with any broker, prop firm or personal account? Why does anyone assume the rate of success to be any different with FTMO vs trading your own account? Yes, the challenge is tough, but if you do not hit the target, but you are profitable by even a penny, you...
Hi Pipmaster77

I agree with everything you say, except that the challenge is the hard part. On another prop firm often mentioned on this thread, I know there is only ONE member in its history that's managed to last close to a year as a funded trader.

Only ONE

Why?

I enjoy your posts, Cheers
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #5,546
  • Feb 5, 2021 2:25am Feb 5, 2021 2:25am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} "why is it so hard to stay a long time member trading a live account with FTMO." @RickM -- I have an answer, though I'm sure there are more. It's because for most traders it requires adapting to a set of constaints that we've never had to deal with before. And the constraints are absolutely valid because we are trading someone else's money, which we've never done before. I mostly trade algorithmically, with some discretionary, and I've always been focused on maximizing profit When trading a personal account you have the luxury of time being...
With our own account we have the luxury to trade our "good enough" strategy. I learnt this from you.

Trading with other peoples money come with the constraints.

This makes our "good enough" strategy fail to meet the constraints set. Does not mean they fail to generate profit.

Only 0.08% manage to finally be paid consistently therefore successful.
Ofc everyone dreams of becoming this super trader, the reality is only 0.08% succeed.
So when this point is raised the response is expected to protest this contention.
Not wrong to highlight this other side that's seldom talked about, right ?

Three reasons I can think of why trade with prop money.

1. Unable to raise sufficient capital,
2. Enjoy the no skin on the line with zero risk in the market,
3. Accreditation to have qualified as a super trader meeting prop firm's constraints.
Know what you trade
  • #5,547
  • Feb 5, 2021 2:33am Feb 5, 2021 2:33am
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} With our own account we have the luxury to trade our "good enough" strategy. I learnt this from you. Trading with other peoples money comes with the constraints. This makes our "good enough" strategy fail to meet the constraints set. Does not mean they fail to generate profit. Only 0.08% manage to finally be paid consistently therefore successful. Ofc everyone dreams of becoming this super trader, the reality is only 0.08% succeed. So when this point is raised the response is expected to protest this contention. Not wrong to highlight...
@BWilliam -- yes!! You are 100% correct. My "good enough" strategy that I trade on my personal account would not survive prop trading. No question.

But where is it carved in stone that you are restricted to using your "good enough" strategy? If you're going to be trading someone else's money then wouldn't you think there might be some strings attached? Strings that weren't attached when trading your personal account?

Prior to prop trading my "good enough" strategies focused on maximizing profit and slogging through the DD. This wouldn't cut it on a prop account because their constraints do not include the luxury of time. So, the challenge is on the trader to adapt. There are much worse things in life than having to adapt or change strategies, right? Or, maybe not for everyone...
  • #5,548
  • Feb 5, 2021 2:34am Feb 5, 2021 2:34am
Quoting RickM
{quote} And to add to that, of the 8% that pass, how many are still in the game 6 months later. Probably less than 10%. So maybe 1% last long enough to make any decent money in the long run. I see nothing wrong with what product FTMO is offering here, but we need to be realistic and understand only the best and most experienced traders where ever earn enough to obtain a full time living. Its a dream, but just maybe it’s worth a shot anyway.
profit split is next week for me.

i have made in 15 trading days what most people around me make in 2 years. it is my second try on ftmo. on the first i blew the funded acc.

i got into trading december of 2019. took my losses back 5 monthss after that had a few profits now and then , a few k €€€ but not as much as i wanted.

everyone cand do it.

build a plan, be comfortable with your trade.

a loss is a loss.

in my system i take 2-3 huge losses a month, huge losses.

i accept them and move on.

when you accept the losses and dont try to take the money back, you will succed.

gl
offering my system to copy trade. check my link
  • #5,549
  • Feb 5, 2021 2:35am Feb 5, 2021 2:35am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} "why is it so hard to stay a long time member trading a live account with FTMO." @RickM -- I have an answer, though I'm sure there are more. It's because for most traders it requires adapting to a set of constaints that we've never had to deal with before. And the constraints are absolutely valid because we are trading someone else's money, which we've never done before. I mostly trade algorithmically, with some discretionary, and I've always been focused on maximizing profit. When trading a personal account you have the luxury of time being...
Hi Steve

So we agree, the transition is hard to maintain for any length of time. Therefore the strategy used to pass the Challenge & Verification isn't suitable for long term trading for most traders.

What is Pipmaster77 doing right?
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #5,550
  • Feb 5, 2021 2:39am Feb 5, 2021 2:39am
Quoting nikosk0
{quote} profit split is next week for me. i have made in 15 trading days what most people around me make in 2 years. it is my second try on ftmo. on the first i blew the funded acc. i got into trading december of 2019. took my losses back 5 monthss after that had a few profits now and then , a few k €€€ but not as much as i wanted. everyone cand do it. build a plan, be comfortable with your trade. a loss is a loss. in my system i take 2-3 huge losses a month, huge losses. i accept them and move on. when you accept the losses and dont try to take...
Hi Nikosk0

Really great news you are doing well, hope you can maintain it into the future. May I ask you what you changed the second time on FTMO that made you fail the first time.
This information may be of great interest to current traders here.

Cheers
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #5,551
  • Feb 5, 2021 2:41am Feb 5, 2021 2:41am
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} With our own account we have the luxury to trade our "good enough" strategy. I learnt this from you. Trading with other peoples money come with the constraints. This makes our "good enough" strategy fail to meet the constraints set. Does not mean they fail to generate profit. Only 0.08% manage to finally be paid consistently therefore successful. Ofc everyone dreams of becoming this super trader, the reality is only 0.08% succeed. So when this point is raised the response is expected to protest this contention. Not wrong to highlight...
@BWilliam -- regarding your 3 reasons, I'll play along because I'm in the mood...

1. Unable to raise sufficient capital. Correct -- and I'll plead guilty. I just now checked my wallet and I'm currently $96,947 USD short of opening a 100K personal account. However, I can open a 100K prop account.

2. Enjoy no skin on the line? Well -- kind of stretching things a bit. For one thing my time is valuable to me. And, for another, is it a crime to make money with less risk? I would think that's a good thing.

3. Accreditation.. Not sure what that means. Do you mean for ego purposes and posting on threads at FF claiming you're managing a 1.28 million USD account? If so, I haven't really seen too many people on this thread who boast. Usually, if someone reveals their results it's in response to someone else prompting them.

@BWilliam -- over to you, boss...
  • #5,552
  • Feb 5, 2021 2:45am Feb 5, 2021 2:45am
Quoting robots4me
@BWilliam -- regarding your 3 reasons, I'll play along because I'm in the mood... 1. Unable to raise sufficient capital. Correct -- and I'll plead guilty. I just now checked my wallet and I'm currently $96,947 USD short of opening a 100K personal account. However, I can open a 100K prop account. 2. Enjoy no skin on the line? Well -- kind of stretching things a bit. For one thing my time is valuable to me. And, for another, is it a crime to make money with less risk? I would think that's a good thing. 3. Accreditation.. Not sure what that...
Boss, I have a question for you,

Since you took up this challenge which takes up a lot of your time, here comes the question...

Why do you waste time (which is your constraint) with that TMS thread of clowns ?

I must admit I do enjoy the drama though.
So I don't want it to stop.
Know what you trade
  • #5,553
  • Feb 5, 2021 2:48am Feb 5, 2021 2:48am
Quoting RickM
{quote} So I understand the challenges and mental struggles first hand. As I see it, the battle is not completing the Challenge and passing verification, the real challenge is staying alive with FTMO when you let your guard down. So my point is why is it so hard to stay a long time member trading a live account with FTMO. So we have ONE member in 3.5 years, is there anyone else here I can include in that list. You can see my angle can't you, the Challenge & verification is not the hard part - over confidence when trading a live account may be the...
Totally agree with your point Rick, but doesn't this apply to personal trading as much as it does to trading for prop firms? I don't really see it that different.

How many traders are able to consistently trade their personal live accounts profitably for up to 6 months straight without blowing up their accounts or digging themselves into deep DD? There will always be more losers than winners in this game, understandably, there will be more losers in the prop realm due to imposed risk parameters.

But here's the catch, wouldn't one rather last only 2 months making 5% monthly on a 100k account and having the opportunity to try again immediately? than risk blowing up their own 5 or 10k personal account trying to make not nearly as much as the the person who lost their FTMO account in 2 months?

Lastly, you know not everyone comes here to update on their growth, you can spot them in other threads talking about it and once in a while they show up here..

Akamrp was with FTMO for 4 or 5 months before he lost his account (has a journal)
Karmostaji just received his 3rd profit split which he posted here..
Nikosko just passed two consecutive Challenges and verifications and seems to have a consistent trading style..
Pipmaster has been at it for months and adding to it conservatively

i'm sure there are a few more. I believe it's very doable, i'll prove it soon.
  • #5,554
  • Feb 5, 2021 2:49am Feb 5, 2021 2:49am
-If you do not have mental ability to accept losses 5 % and 10 %,

-If you do not have risk management plan to cut down the losses to daily max 5 %,

-If you have no trading plan to make some 3 to 5 % in a month without violating loss limits,

This is not the place for you guys to post.




And, be happy to deposit 2k, with a Broker who offers 1 : 500 leverage, and you do over trade...

Dream of multiplying the account 2 % per day, succeed for 10 days, then eventually loose 2k + profits.
Intraday only.
  • #5,555
  • Feb 5, 2021 2:59am Feb 5, 2021 2:59am
Quoting RickM
{quote}Therefore the strategy used to pass the Challenge & Verification isn't suitable for long term trading for most traders. What is Pipmaster77 doing right?[in for any length of time.
i'm guessing that's why he said the challenge is the hard part, because you would have to be aggressive to pass it, but afterwards you can choose to trade so conservatively that you try to make only 3% monthly and never go anywhere close to breaching drawdown limits.
However, this is where the psychology part you speak of makes a difference....many gain the funded account and want to make a killing on the first month and end up losing it too soon..... those are not people(probably 80% of traders) to consider in this convo if we're talking about long term survival.
  • #5,556
  • Feb 5, 2021 3:00am Feb 5, 2021 3:00am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi Steve So we agree, the transition is hard to maintain for any length of time. Therefore the strategy used to pass the Challenge & Verification isn't suitable for long term trading for most traders. What is Pipmaster77 doing right?
Hi @RickM -- prop trading is still new to me so I'm kind of blowing smoke when it comes to the longevity issue. As I wrote above -- the "aha moment" for me was when I realized my current EAs weren't going to cut it. Not because they didn't generate good signals but, rather, I've been too non-chalant or casual about money and risk management. So -- since transitioning to prop trading, which is the only way for me from here on out, the key was to (a) get serious about money and risk management, and (b) focus on minimizing DD and be willing to leave those Pips on the table. Since I'm still kind of a rookie and not really attached to any particular style of trading then I'm fine with changing styles. Actually -- it's not that I changed but, rather, more like I added another style. I still trade my personal accounts but using different EAs than the one running on the prop account.

@RickM -- I know you like trading EAs like me, and you may even enjoy developing software more than trading, also like me. It's a challenge to switch gears and mindset to adapt to prop trading, but I'm betting you'd have a blast. For a few hundred dollars it's more fun than a barrel of monkeys...
  • #5,557
  • Feb 5, 2021 3:05am Feb 5, 2021 3:05am
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Boss, I have a question for you, Since you took up this challenge which takes up a lot of your time, here comes the question... Why do you waste time (which is your constraint) with that TMS thread of clowns ? I must admit I do enjoy the drama though. So I don't want it to stop.
@BWilliam -- love your sarcasm...

The challenge takes almost zero time -- I trade algorithmically and co-develop systems with a trading buddy. Most of my time is spent coding / testing -- which is like a hobby for me. If I wasn't coding / testing forex software I'd be coding / testing wireless diagnostic software.

Yeh, that TMS thread is something else, isn't it? I'm there for @emmanul7788. I'm indebted to him. And to the extent I can distract the misfits and give him a break then I'll continue with the drama...
  • #5,558
  • Feb 5, 2021 3:07am Feb 5, 2021 3:07am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi Nikosk0 Really great news you are doing well, hope you can maintain it into the future. May I ask you what you changed the second time on FTMO that made you fail the first time. This information may be of great interest to current traders here. Cheers
there were a few things, that had nothing to do with the strategy.
my strategy works, since day 1 i started trading, i always liked reversals, it has to do with my work basically. i knew how metals behave and the retail market in general, so i chose reversals. i have reviewd even my very first trades, all went in my favor but the stops were tight.

i haad to make the strategy more accurate during my trading days but this is not the topic of this.

so the things:
1. i wanted to loose no more. to do this, i had to reduce my position sizing and make the stops bigger
2. i set a small monthly target that i would be satisfied with. once i get to this target i can increase lot size.
3. i stoped caring about how much i could have made. i know how much i wanna make, i make that and get the fuck out. mt4 closes
4. i focus only on what i know. for me its the majors and exotics (although on ftmo i cannot trade exotics because of their behaviour)

that is prety much all.

find a strategy that works and chill, get your minimum target and make comfortable trades from then on

EDIT . I FORGOT TO MENTION THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR
i dont give a shit what people say about their growth or their trades, i do nto trade what other people trade, i do not look for reviews of pairs on youtube or any other forum for possible next moves. i focus on my self and do not let distractions get to me. (i believe i know every trading strategy know to mankind, i read every day, i learn everyday. new indicators, price action, market structure, market behaviour, when and were, why, i do not stop asking questions, i do not stop learning)
offering my system to copy trade. check my link
  • #5,559
  • Feb 5, 2021 3:10am Feb 5, 2021 3:10am
Quoting robots4me
@BWilliam -- love your sarcasm... The challenge takes almost zero time -- I trade algorithmically and co-develop systems with a trading buddy. Most of my time is spent coding / testing -- which is like a hobby for me. If I wasn't coding / testing forex software I'd be coding / testing wireless diagnostic software. Yeh, that TMS thread is something else, isn't it? I'm there for @emmanul7788. I'm indebted to him. And to the extent I can distract the misfits and give him a break then I'll continue with the drama...
Sarcasm is a soft approach to deliver the same point, my trick.
You have made this challenge doubly hard to trade with EA. If you succeed I have to beg you to be my guru.
Know what you trade
  • #5,560
  • Feb 5, 2021 3:13am Feb 5, 2021 3:13am
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} You have made this challenge doubly hard to trade with EA. If you succeed I have to beg you to be my guru.
@BWilliam -- I'll add you to the waiting list...
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