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My way to highway

Quoting profitfarmer
picked out the least important part of that post ... what part i think matters: "...never been crazy for it. not while young, and unlikely now as get get older..." anyhow, the listed 5 included Cambodia, and of course Thailand has plenty illegal places to gamble if i would really want to, which i dont.
Actually you should go to these casinos with high roller friends, they take you into the high roller rooms where whales gamble 10kusd per hand on bacarrat. 2kusd base blackjack bet. And lots of money laundering done openly in the millions. This may open your eyes to high stakes gambling enjoyed by the rich and famous and mafiasos. Winning or losing is just a fun activity. Change your mind about gambling when those whales place bets that's equal to the entire casino floor staff salary. You have to see how the whales shout at the top of their voice at the dealers and pit manager. Good experience.
Left FF - 20 March 2021
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Prop firms aside, you liken them to a casino. The Forex market itself is a giant casino. It's gambling, speculation is a nice word. When you put two words, casino and earn a living together, it means professional gambler in the Forex casino. Trading is gambling, don't kid yourself. So basically forex daytrader is a professional forex market gambler. Tell it to your neighbours about forex trading and they see you as gamblers. The only people who don't see themselves as forex casino gamblers are retail forex trader. Now tell your neighbour...
i guess it is up to the individual how they choose to think, or whom they want to impress or answer about personal choices made.
i am pretty sure that i am not interested to impress my neighbors, nor looking for their approval, but accept it as fact that many would, maybe you included ( since asking about it, means would consider it as a factor).
will be honest, not even bother too much to think on the terminology, what it may or may not be called by others what i am doing.
but understand your concern, and that is real for you, and you care about me and my family. appreciate that.

Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Actually you should go to these casinos with high roller friends, they take you into the high roller rooms where whales gamble 10kusd per hand on bacarrat. 2kusd base blackjack bet. And lots of money laundering done openly in the millions. This may open your eyes to high stakes gambling enjoyed by the rich and famous and mafiasos. Winning or losing is just a fun activity. Change your mind about gambling when those whales place bets that's equal to the entire casino floor staff salary. You have to see how the whales shout at the top of their...
maybe i go with you on your next field trip. let me know when it is.

not to get too far off on this thread. for discussions, there is a whole FF.com session to do ( although i cant partake that session nor want to) and for private discussions, of course there is PM.

PS.
just as a thought to add to the previous topic as moving on, bcos family is important for me,
my son pretty much knows about what i am doing, once in a while when cook, and about to get in or out a trade, i ask him to babysit the PC watching for the price.
i make sure he also knows that this year when he will going to start university, i not only will support his choice, but i will make sure he will go thru uni without a student loan!
my great grandparents were very simple working ppl, my grandparents were very simple working ppl, starting with nothing after WW2, both side moving from countryside to the city, my parents were simple working ppl, my father never finished HS, i was/am a simple working ppl, never really had a chance to go collage or university, not coming from money, not coming from inheritence, made what i have.
i am proud that 26 years work behind me i made to the point where i am nowhere rich or well to do even, but i can give to my son the opportunity of choice!
if the cost of it that some disprove, it is a small price to pay!
meantime, the cruise industry where i have worked most my years, have just started the 12th month of unpaid layoffs. not sure that is more or less approved, but depending on others arent easier.
and talking about cruising, if not a high roller casino setting, i had the "luck" to meet in person many "high rollers".

anyways,
thanks for the inputs. definitely something to think of between watching the price move after the AUD rate ( unchanged).
there is always, always another trade!!
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} i guess it is up to the individual how they choose to think, or whom they want to impress or answer about personal choices made. i am pretty sure that i am not interested to impress my neighbors, nor looking for their approval....
bcos family is important for me, my son pretty much knows about what i am doing, once in a while when cook, and about to get in or out a trade, i ask him to babysit the PC watching for the price. i make sure he also knows that this year when he will going to start university, i not only will support his choice,...
Hi PF,

I learned a lot from your posts on trading in general terms, but the ones I absolutely like the most are the ones like this where you get personal and a human side of a person of considerable depth comes out.

The human side and the one you love is what really matters, the rest is business as usual, whatever it is.

Best regards,
Bubincka
Porta itineris dicitur longissima esse
Quoting profitfarmer
hi recently there was some more prop discussion on discord, and without the ful conversation, i will copy here some of what i have written in the topic. WARNING: it is relative long read, even most other comments omitted, kept only mine to keep it shorter and more on the core topic; the full version is on discord. disclaimer: as usual, what i write reflect my views, and my experiences, for good or bad, agree or not. just like anything else on my journal here. starting not from the very beginning of conversation, jumping into topic... "why go with...
Read the other side of the conversation from here.
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...8#post13395418
Left FF - 20 March 2021
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Read the other side of the conversation from here. https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...8#post13395418
Thx.
There is no "other side". Bcos there wasn't one side to start with.
Just a conversation, which a part I chose to include here, cos typing takes lots of time, and copy paste doesn't.
The part posted here is no way a complete take of mine.
Nor it is the platform I will discuss the complete views with pro and contra.
It is a journal first and foremost.

But I read the comments there. Could put my real take into the conversation on couple aspects, but why should I? Not found a reason to do. Reading is ok, along "breakfast", as usual.

Ps. Read the latest too. The conversation already sliding the usual direction. Same same. D. Boring.
there is always, always another trade!!
Hi pf,

How long does the psyquation score took to update? I can have one week before it update.
If I had several winning trades...the score doesn't move or update. However, if I had several losing trades...it sure update within one day.
Its hard to monitor if drawdown.

Regards
jinsen
Quoting jinsen
Hi pf, How long does the psyquation score took to update? I can have one week before it update. If I had several winning trades...the score doesn't move or update. However, if I had several losing trades...it sure update within one day. Its hard to monitor if drawdown. Regards jinsen
hi Jinsen,
cant tell, mine is mostly staying the same same usually.
but this is a new acct, i think when started the merged score was 74, now 3 weeks later 77, so it can change upward too relative quickly.
( mentioned this thread: https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...0k-funded-acct? )
i dont pay attention to the score day-to-day, but i see it changes once in a while, or stays the same when overall i am probably doing what i was, so nothing to change. but for example it is missing the profits today, so updated sometimes 16-20 hours ago i guess.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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for drawdown monitoring, use a different tool, bcos Psyquation isnt real time.
i use these 2, both can give a decent number real time on the open trades in % , ( else it is just plain hold iExposure standard on Mt4):

Attached File
File Type: mq4 Today_Info_DD_PL_done (1).mq4   10 KB | 27 downloads
Attached File
File Type: ex4 i-Profittracker_RU-EN.ex4   64 KB | 19 downloads


happy trading!
Z
there is always, always another trade!!
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} hi Jinsen, cant tell, mine is mostly staying the same same usually. but this is a new acct, i think when started the merged score was 74, now 3 weeks later 77, so it can change upward too relative quickly. ( mentioned this thread: https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...0k-funded-acct? ) i dont pay attention to the score day-to-day, but i see it changes once in a while, or stays the same when overall i am probably doing what i was, so nothing to change. but for example it is missing the profits...
just as a follow up to the post 2 days ago...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: c8b0e07f323847247dc3cda9ac110f8d.png Size: 12 KB

things do change, just not instantly.
but that doesnt really matter.
there is always, always another trade!!
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} just as a follow up to the post 2 days ago... {image} things do change, just not instantly. but that doesnt really matter.
The score is based on Skill, Risk, Behavior and History.
You'd think the actual score should be the sum of those 4 divided by 4 but mine is not.
Is your score the sum divided by 4 or not?

Another Q.
I haven't really read the entire process but from what I have read, the payout is 20%.
That means they keep 80% of the profit and give you 20%.
I know that they are just copy trading you and you make money in your real account and on top of that you are getting a 20% extra for doing nothing but you find it fair?
Quoting OutThere
{quote} The score is based on Skill, Risk, Behavior and History. You'd think the actual score should be the sum of those 4 divided by 4 but mine is not. Is your score the sum divided by 4 or not? Another Q. I haven't really read the entire process but from what I have read, the payout is 20%. That means they keep 80% of the profit and give you 20%. I know that they are just copy trading you and you make money in your real account and on top of that you are getting a 20% extra for doing nothing but you find it fair?
Q#1: not. not equally weighted components.

Q#2: think over the fairness. ever come across a hedge fund or a PAMM acct that offered 20-30% of all profit for investors, and kept 70-80%?
who put up the money gets the bigger share, always. bcos carries the risk.
(and wont start a discussion how paying upfront fee and demo acct trade, or paying all your available max dd and some, to mention the 2 popular "prop" options are, and who actually "putting up the money really")

happy weekend!
Z
there is always, always another trade!!
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} Q#1: not. not equally weighted components. Q#2: think over the fairness. ever come across a hedge fund or a PAMM acct that offered 20-30% of all profit for investors, and kept 70-80%? who put up the money gets the bigger share, always. bcos carries the risk. (and wont start a discussion how paying upfront fee and demo acct trade, or paying all your available max dd and some, to mention the 2 popular "prop" options are, and who actually "putting up the money really") happy weekend! Z
Yah, I found it digestible as well based on exactly your points but something nagging at me that someone is getting an 80% cut for doing nothing. I just got an email from my bank offering .05% interest on my money if I lock it in for a year. Of course the money in the bank plus 1/2 percent is secure but a trader's account is subject to let's say; fluctuations.

For the sake of simplicity, Let's say $1000 was invested. Bank pays $5 interest after a year. If the investor received 80% return, it would be $800. That is 160 times what the bank pays. 1600%.
It's like us traders holding signs up in front of the bank that says: If you invest with me, I'll beat the bank by 1600%.

I know that the investor will not receive the full 80% because axi acts like a middle man unless Axi itself is the investor.

Now, I haven't considered (or read about) other safety valves that are possibly going to get triggered if the trader starts to perform badly. I don't know at what point Axi cuts off the account or withdraws the ability for the signals to be copied. I just don't think they are going to wait until the account goes to zero...or maybe they will. I just don't think their downside is 100%.

happy weekend as well!
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Yah, I found it digestible as well based on exactly your points but something nagging at me that someone is getting an 80% cut for doing nothing. I just got an email from my bank offering .05% interest on my money if I lock it in for a year. Of course the money in the bank plus 1/2 percent is secure but a trader's account is subject to let's say; fluctuations. For the sake of simplicity, Let's say $1000 was invested. Bank pays $5 interest after a year. If the investor received 80% return, it would be $800. That is 160 times what the bank...
dont want to go deeper into,
and definitely not into comparison of active to passive income without proper context to it...
but in short, the pay for it trial prop firms arent brokerages.
Axi is.
Axi benefits from volume based commission ( larger equity = larger volume), as well the order book being filled with more in-house liquidity ( reduced order matching cost), along few other things.
some like to mention the 90/90/90 'rule' in forex....so the 180-365 days minimal track record length already measn Axi 'finishing' for those outside that outperforming 10% to start with, and reduce that down further by the scores.
one model benefits from traders keep repeating challanges and not lasting; the other model is a lot better aligned for longer term cooperation.

just a final comment, and i am done with this talk: Axi doesnt remove their profit share from the acct, so if get to the max guaranteed 350k, that isnt the actual ceiling.

PS. like in life, generally, standing on 2 legs ( or more) is always more stable than standing on 1 leg only. trading is like anything else, not less, but not more; it is always a good idea to have multiple income sources ( related is OK, unrelated is better).
i am not against any "prop" whatsoever; but there are different conditions and rules, and one should pick smartly which fits his needs and circumstances best.
there is always, always another trade!!
Making good sense as usual. Thanks PF.
Quoting OutThere
I know that they are just copy trading you and you make money in your real account and on top of that you are getting a 20% extra for doing nothing but you find it fair?
Have you found any case of hedge funds offer their trades for copy to other hedge funds for a fee of 20% profit cut, as you wrote getting extra for doing nothing?
Left FF - 20 March 2021
  • Post #1,375
  • Quote
  • Edited Feb 21, 2021 12:50am Feb 20, 2021 10:39pm | Edited Feb 21, 2021 12:50am
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Have you found any case of hedge funds offer their trades for copy to other hedge funds for a fee of 20% profit cut, as you wrote getting extra for doing nothing?
I have not researched something like that but I assume the answer is no.

I was talking about Axi offering a 20% cut to super successful and verified traders. Is that what you are referring to?

If that is what you are referring to, there is a huge move by unscrupulous actors in the industry to exploit successful traders. Those traders, eligible to be called successful or just hoping to somehow become one, are falling head first for those offers and that way of taking advantage of the independent trader has become the standard. The main reason is that traders are not necessarily business minded people and the main reason they are trading is because they are or were broke to begin with. Maybe years of trying to become good traders have put them in the poor house and now they are willing to do anything for a buck.

Anyways, don't start me on that.
Let's not make this journal a prop firm chat room.

The case of Axi,
"I was talking about Axi offering a 20% cut to super successful and verified traders"
6-12 month track record on a 1000$+ live acct and ticking a proprietary score value doesn't make a super successful trader....but it filters out many many unsuccessful ones, who for whatever reason can't last.

The 'pay-to-play' models different, their entry barrier isn't time, but money, and even that to a limited extent, having packages to entice potentially even those with 200$ capitals, limited skills, and limitless dreams.
If someone was/is somewhat successful in whatever he/she does, wouldn't bother really with 200$ to start with, the time factor would make it worthless...so they by large unsuccessful ( a nicer word than losers).
by nature some could be lucky on those paid trials, but lunch factor moderated by the 2 step challenge, the available time, and the other rules, ensuring relative few pass.


"Have you found any case of hedge funds offer their trades for copy to other hedge funds for a fee of 20% profit cut, as you wrote getting extra for doing nothing?"

By definition, doing the trading, and getting paid for is not doing nothing.
As for hedge funds working for other hedge funds ( smaller funds for large ones) is a long existing practice.


I think that is at least 2 week worth of prop topic posts here.
Want to discuss more, please use other channels, like a discussion thread that is by default dedicated for discussion?

Happy weekend!
Z
there is always, always another trade!!
Hi pf,

The leaderboard shown on psyquation are those that set their dashboard to public and I believe not all of them are opened to public. Not sure how many funded trader are there. Could be many.

I just got back to incubator after 3 months. Right after I make it to accelerator. I was in big drawdown of 50%. I decided to sacrifice my incubator and pull myself out of these shit. I make it out. I knew I can make it but my incubator status was pull to incubator. The reason is my master account is 100% profit compared to 20% axi. Is that a loophole or unprofessional on my side. I can see alot of the pro having more than 50%. They also probably rather sacrifice than temporarily cut loss during that period. Is than a better choice.

After passing quarantine period. One have to be proactive. They won't contact you. I had to email back.

I knew you had another thread on axiselect. Your incubator is on $10k. Once you reach accelerator,
Are you putting a 1:10 multiplier.? I feel I make a mistake of putting 1:10 or 0.9. The master and slave work separately. Master is equity have money and score within it's rule. Slave is bond by score and 10%dd. So maybe multiplier to put lower to stay in ture wat impact would that be. Hope you can share your thought on that in later.

Lastly, should one have no open trade during the stage of going to accelerator, pro and the quarterly payout.

Do hope you share your experience and thought.
I knew you and Davidrp are in this for a long time..
Both are profitable and that's for sure. I am too. Haha

Regards,
Jinsen
Quoting jinsen
Hi pf, The leaderboard shown on psyquation are those that set their dashboard to public and I believe not all of them are opened to public. Not sure how many funded trader are there. Could be many. I just got back to incubator after 3 months. Right after I make it to accelerator. I was in big drawdown of 50%. I decided to sacrifice my incubator and pull myself out of these shit. I make it out. I knew I can make it but my incubator status was pull to incubator. The reason is my master account is 100% profit compared to 20% axi. Is that a loophole...
hi Jinsen,

i think all funded accts are listed and visible ( talk about Axi slaves, pro, acceleration, incubation).
of course the rest of the accts are not necessarily visible, by trader's choice.
not sure i fully understand the question about moving to stage to, but break it to 2 parts:
- best to handle the master according to the slave's rules, so there is no difference, they gain the same, lose the same 1x risk factor.
- when move to stage#2, makes all sense to max out the available matching ceiling, which is 10x offered...ie. makes sense to have 10k aud own master equity.

the open trades not really my concern, bcos it isnt applicable to me: i dont hold trades overnight or weekend.

i know other traders there too, including one in acceleration currently was a student i have mentored

the other thread, you referring to,
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...0k-funded-acct?
i have also started to benefit some of my students.
i have been thru the process years ago, some of what was documented on this thread too ( between 2017 and 2019); most certainly wouldnt need to journal it for myself.

happy weekend!
Z
there is always, always another trade!!
end of February.

a very solid month, not by the most %gains, although that is good as well, but also important, with an extremely moderate max dd%.
if i have given a choice, i would always pick this well balanced mix.
this is the final:

Attached Image

the last week definitely outperformed, although i have missed 1-1 day each from trading week #2 and #3, due a long weekend break.
the AxiSelect "project" is going well, 5 weeks into it all is in track, if interested can see it here:
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...2#post13429552

apart, everything is well on other fronts too.

had a great month mentoring Azam ( at some point he may leave a review here i think),
and looking forward to work with Shaun in March.

a few of you have expressed interest about mentoring. bcos i strictly only work with 1 student a time, it may take some waiting. for the best interest of the student, bcos have my full attention for him/her, alone.
if serious, and want to be next, around mid-April start, we can talk about. nothing available before that date. quality over quantity.
( to be clear, the mentoring isnt a free service.)

else, i am about to move next month if all goes as scheduled, something that exciting and dreadful the same time, even though generally staying the same building...some renovations needed to be done before the move, and that is always a hassle, anywhere in the world. expect nothing less.
(for a while contemplated between possible move to Hungary or staying more in Thailand, once again decided that i like the sunny weather more.)

this is about February!

happy weekend!
Z
there is always, always another trade!!
Hello all

As Zoltan has mentioned, I have been training with him for just over a month. Everybody is busy, so I will keep this short.

As you can see from my profile, I have been a member since 2007, with mixed results at best. Working with Zoltan has changed the way I look at trading. And for the first time in many years I am a consistently profitable trader. I took a few trades on my own as well as with Zoltan. Except for one, all the trades were profitable. It has helped me gain confidence in my trading again. The great thing is, despite the training coming to an end, Zoltan is still providing help and guidance!

It has been a great learning experience for me.

Thanks
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