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  • #5,301
  • Jan 16, 2021 12:07pm Jan 16, 2021 12:07pm
Quoting FXsniper111
{quote} I am sure if you do good the first 3 months they let you trade in the market not just inhouse.....
I am sure they are "dealing" orders for better quotes from day one. Volume is king. I am 100% positive they are not taking full risk on any account new or old.
  • #5,302
  • Jan 16, 2021 12:22pm Jan 16, 2021 12:22pm
Quoting WojakPips
they are making c book forex thats why they removed other brokers from their platform. they are making money from failed evaluations, thats it. If they show me their millions of dollars real account which copying the trades, i am gonna believe them.
I personally don't believe this to be the case. However, to be honest, I really don't care what their business model is. My business model is to get paid from 3-4 different prop firms managing more money than I ever could on my own without the risk. As long as they are paying according to their contract, why should anyone care how they do it? I just don't get why people come in here, either whine about the rules, try to figure out their business model, etc, etc. The way I see the forex business as it is today, there are two options:

1. Risk your own funds, in 99% of the cases, a much smaller amount than what can be obtained from a prop firm, and trade with a broker that is most likely trading against you anyway. There are actually very few 100% stp/ecn models out there ad none that USA residents have access to.
2. Throw $500-$800 into a prop firm, pass their evaluation, get your fee refunded, trade a much larger amount, risk none of your own funds. Diversify into 3-4 firms, in case one goes down, your still in business.

Hmmmm, I don't believe this takes rocket science to make a choice here folks.
  • #5,303
  • Jan 16, 2021 1:40pm Jan 16, 2021 1:40pm
Quoting WojakPips
they are making c book forex thats why they removed other brokers from their platform. they are making money from failed evaluations, thats it. If they show me their millions of dollars real account which copying the trades, i am gonna believe them.

They may pay out using failed challenges.
I wouldn't disagree with you.
They may also actually place the trades on the real market.

But would you provide a list of the most popular brokers, A book and B book?
95% would be using B book, most likely you as well.

As I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong, B book do not place trades directly into the market.
They trade against you, internally!

Your profits will come from somewhere, and it's quite possible they have never actually been traded in a real market.
So what's the difference then between using challenge fees to pay profits and casino trading with a B Book broker.?

As long as they pay, I couldn't care less where the money originated, Prop firms or B Book.

Again, I stand to be corrected.
  • #5,304
  • Jan 16, 2021 9:19pm Jan 16, 2021 9:19pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote}
So what's the difference then between using challenge fees to pay profits and casino trading with a B Book broker.? As long as they pay, I couldn't care less where the money originated, Prop firms or B Book. Again, I stand to be corrected.

Spot on Andy imo.

For Retail some brokers will have B-Book Accounts for certain of their customers.

And the broker would hold the aggregate of trades for those designated (B-Book) customers IN HOUSE.

Those trades do not reach the next level of forex liquidity.

Then should the “aggregate” amount (of those B-Book trades) fall outside their risk model then accumulated funds would find their way up to the ‘next level’.

Which is the brokers’ Liquidity Providor

(who might be ‘dirty’ by the way that their brokers were not giving them the full liquidity of trades and might therefore limit certain ‘things’ for THAT broker that might well affect the individual customer at some level - but good luck identifying or monetary calculating what that might be).

Then.

The LP is just a larger (accumulated brokerage as such) and they ALSO DON’T always pass the aggregated sum of their trades into the REAL (tier bank) market.

Another 'closed' level of liquidity being 'played' with.

They would ‘play’ with the aggregate themselves until maybe there is a sum that also falls ‘outside’ THEIR risk parameters.

In which case it could now find its way up to ‘tier’.

And tier who need to offload, might also find some smaller liquidity from the broker’s LP liquidity for any loose ‘excess’ they could arbitrage downwards to help balance their own tier books.

It’s a game, and retail are the smallest fish in the multi-tiered barrel.

But why anyone would be concerned how FTMO (and other such prop businesses) derive money for/from their business model is beyond me.


If you trade well you win (from who knows who) and if you don’t trade well you lose (and to who knows who).

Employ excessive ‘concern’ time into trade refinement time.

Just trade I reckon.
  • #5,305
  • Jan 16, 2021 11:11pm Jan 16, 2021 11:11pm
Nothing to do with me and I haven’t used it but this may/ may not help those using FTMO...


https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...t-analyse-tool
  • #5,306
  • Jan 16, 2021 11:15pm Jan 16, 2021 11:15pm
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Spot on Andy imo. For Retail some brokers will have B-Book Accounts for certain of their customers. And the broker would hold the aggregate of trades for those designated (B-Book) customers IN HOUSE. Those trades do not reach the next level of forex liquidity. Then should the “aggregate” amount (of those B-Book trades) fall outside their risk model then accumulated funds would find their way up to the ‘next level’. Which is the brokers’ Liquidity Providor (who might be ‘dirty’ by the way that their brokers were not giving them the full liquidity...

As always thanks for taking the time Pete.
Your knowledge on these matters is always welcome. Perhaps some of the experts could comment if they see things in a different light!

A.
  • #5,307
  • Jan 17, 2021 12:42am Jan 17, 2021 12:42am
Quoting moodybot
{quote} As always thanks for taking the time Pete. Your knowledge on these matters is always welcome. Perhaps some of the experts could comment if they see things in a different light! A.

Hahaaa, cheers Andy.

I have NEVER worked for a Tier bank or any brokerage or trading platform ever, and I am just a senior (now) who trades daily.

And I do not trade for my living or livlihood.

I have a separate income stream - therefore I do not trade "truly professionally" and I allow myself a certain leeway (ie drawdown tolerance) to 'examine' what happens in these markets. So I base anything I write only on simplistic logic, whatever that means to others.


I am interested to read about these Prop firms (especially with ASIC changing the 'leverage' goalposts in Australia come March) but it would require me to tighten up my DD in trading to be workable for me under these systems (5% max DD), but achievable. That is my challenge lol - if I thought to move in this direction at a later stage.


So take what you can from anything I say, but I'm just a day trader in the end, trying to 'think it all out'.

I will get off this thread now and allow the FTMO traders & firm to run their business model, for those that have interest.



In regards to Liquidity Providers I will upload a PDF I tracked down some time back that started me thinking about how 'they' run their business models.

(Any trader can ask their Broker for a subsequent Trade Receipt on a past trade to see which LP opened your trade and which LP closed your trade - I found the LP that opens your trade can be different to the LP that closes, amongst the 'group of LPs' that your Broker uses to facilitate pricing & availability for a trade, based on the 'offered' current prices).

If your Broker can't or won't provide a time stamped Trade Receipt then maybe they are B-Booking you.

If they do provide you a Trade Receipt then you can look at the PDF and see the Policy Disclosure your LPs operate under mainly in relation to their "Last Look Policies (LLP)" but not restricted to just that info.

(The LLPs cover the period of time after an order is received, but before execution, during which an LP conducts credit and price checks, sometimes with an add-on period for further monitoring.)
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf RiskTop50 Liquidity Providers.pdf   687 KB | 526 downloads
  • #5,308
  • Jan 17, 2021 7:14am Jan 17, 2021 7:14am
Bottom line is that it's impossible to know who is taking the other side of your trade. The fact that one is guaranteed a position with most reputable brokers no matter what the situation (selling high leverage in a fast downtrend or buying high leverage in a fast uptrend) is enough to be happy with I suppose. The problems often arise during periods of low volume and I really recommend not trading during those periods.

I do have to have a little chuckle when I hear people who have failed two or three challenges already (maybe more?) spouting out about what a wonderful deal FTMO is. I'm afraid to say that it's only a wonderful deal if you PASS and if you NEVER break the daily loss limit. The fact of the matter is that it's only a very small percentage indeed that are still in the game after a few months. It certainly is a good deal - for FTMO and all the other Prop firm players!
  • #5,309
  • Jan 17, 2021 8:07am Jan 17, 2021 8:07am
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Hahaaa, cheers Andy. I have NEVER worked for a Tier bank or any brokerage or trading platform ever, and I am just a senior (now) who trades daily. And I do not trade for my living or livlihood. I have a separate income stream - therefore I do not trade "truly professionally" and I allow myself a certain leeway (ie drawdown tolerance) to 'examine' what happens in these markets. So I base anything I write only on simplistic logic, whatever that means to others. I am interested to read about these Prop firms (especially with ASIC changing the...

Hello, I have been a broker since 2004 up until a bit over 2 yrs ago. I can tell you what you are saying is not correct. There are only 4 aggregator liquidity providers that provide trade receipts that are capable of being shown to customers. They are "prime of prime of prime" LP's and they usually have low depth (but the best spreads). Direct prime LP's will have a contract with a broker that includes non disclosure of any orders. To say "if you can't provide this receipt you are b book" is very wrong. Not only because sometimes a broker cannot provide the receipt without being sued, but also because most brokers are running different models on different customers.. You can assume that someone who is running a martingale system is being b-booked in most places (and yes, if you b book someone you can still provide a trade receipt based on the tick price that was shown at the users terminal, the receipt is "forgeable"), but the majority of trades in a large brokerage are sent to an LP one way or another, either immediately or via a netting system. Every LP last looks apart from the ones on LMAX's retail liquidity pool, which is slippy and has a history of rejections at broker level.

So whilst I appreciate your some what educated view point, it is not accurate.
  • #5,310
  • Edited 5:16pm Jan 17, 2021 4:50pm | Edited 5:16pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote}

To say "if you can't provide this receipt you are b book" is very wrong.

So whilst I appreciate your some what educated view point, it is not accurate.
----------

Cheers Takisd thank you, we should hear more from brokers such as yourself to clear up the 'hidden' aspects of forex which is helpful.



(Could I please ask in the future though, if you quote me, to use my exact quote for reference ... which you can re-read above)


If your Broker can't or won't provide a time stamped Trade Receipt then maybe they are B-Booking you.



Quoting Takisd
{quote}
Direct prime LP's will have a contract with a broker that includes non disclosure of any orders.

My Broker uses LPs such as Citadel, Xtx, Saxo, & Jump which I know from trade receipts I have received from my Broker (not the LP) on a simple request from me.

The Trade Receipt attached below is one of my first trades from 3 years ago (I was still in my "learning" phase) when I first started with my current Broker (trade opened by xtx and trade closed by saxo).

(I have removed my account number & transaction number for obvious reasons)


Apologies to FTMO, unless I am quoted again, I will not post non-FTMO stuff on this thread anymore.
Pete
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: trade receipt.jpg Size: 49 KB
  • #5,311
  • Jan 17, 2021 5:30pm Jan 17, 2021 5:30pm
Thanks for the heads up Takisd.... I limit my knowledge to ‘has price moved up or down, am I in profit and where’s my payout’!
Any further info just creates brain fog...
  • #5,312
  • Jan 18, 2021 1:47am Jan 18, 2021 1:47am
https://ftmo.com/en/symbols/
  • #5,313
  • Jan 18, 2021 10:20am Jan 18, 2021 10:20am
Hello traders,
I hope you’ve started the first couple of weeks of 2021 in such a productive manner as we did and today, we have a major update that I believe many of you were looking for.
Taking effect on Monday, 25th January 2021, we have finally decided to introduce new instruments into the FTMO platform including CFD Equities, new Crypto CFDs, Metals CFDs, and many others. As some symbols that were available untill now will be replaced by their equivalents offered by different liquidity provider (with better trading conditions), some of the symbols will be available only in close-only mode to allow the traders to exit the positions on these instruments. This includes mainly indices and cryptocurrencies. The Asset Classes in the Market Watch will be divided into Forex, Metals CFDs, Cash CFDs, Futures CFDs, Crypto CFDs, Equities CFDs, and each asset class is distinguished by color.
We have also implemented a new commission structure for non-FX symbols, which will be calculated on percent/volume basis. In most cases, the spreads on most instruments will be much tighter and in spite of the new commissions added, the overall trading conditions should be better than the industry-standard. Also, please note that the new symbols may have different contract sizes, spreads, margin requirements, or trading hours, therefore make sure that you get familiar with the new trading conditions and specifications of each symbol. You can check and test the new symbols in the Free Trial accounts as well, where those changes were applied already several weeks ago. From now on, you can also now check the full list of tradeable instruments and their brief specifications on our website at https://ftmo.com/en/symbols/.
Lastly, please be reminded that today (18th of January) is Martin Luther King Day, a US federal holiday, therefore WS30, SPX500, US100, WTI, NGAS, TNOTE, and METALS are being closed at 19:00 GMT+1.
Please check the full update here: https://ftmo.com/en/symbols/
We’ve also incorporated another change that I’d like to inform you about, and that is the crypto session on cTrader being updated due to maintenance times over the weekend. From now on, there will be a 3-hour market break on crypto on Saturday between 8 am-11 am GMT+1. Maintenance times are important for the platform to keep the technical infrastructure stable which in return ensures that traders can trade under good conditions. While we’re on the topic of trading conditions, we‘ve noticed a little confusion from traders who were trading with us in the past, recently came back and found different or new instruments in their trading platforms. Please keep in mind that trading financial derivatives is a very dynamic field, we are updating our services quite regularly and if you’re returning to FTMO after a couple of months or more, there might be changes since the last time you’ve logged into our server.

Now I’d like to address some of your questions that appeared in our thread since my last post and clear out some doubts:
Quoting TrendLover
{quote} Hi Tomas, I love your answers. In relation to adding new instruments, I believe that the most important are those that can be traded 24 hours a day and with very low spreads. Since we cannot keep open positions if the market closes for more than 2 hours. That is why most prefer to trade cryptocurrencies, forex and some indices. I have been a client of several forex brokers famous for offering the smallest spreads and even so the spreads on many CFD instruments like stocks made it impossible to scalping and even day trade. If you are unable...
Thank you for your post TrendLover and I absolutely agree that tight spreads are crucial when it comes to trading conditions. As you probably already know, we are currently testing and improving equities on the Free Trial accounts. Once the equities are fully tested and full functionality proven to our satisfaction, we plan to launch them on Challenge/Verification/FTMO Accounts as well.

Quoting delta-vega
Tomas, please see my comments in the preceding comment regarding my specific issue on daily loss. Appreciate the update and had a couple thoughts: {quote} We had many requests to bring stocks and are able to provide those on our platforms. Stock trading is being tested on our Free Trials for now, but so far, we do not see as much interest as it appeared there was before. Was very excited to see the news that stocks were coming. I hope the perceived lack of interest doesn't mean you're not moving forward with stocks. Looking forward to it and can...
Hi delta-vega, to address your thoughts:
1. We are still evaluating the interest to cost ratio on stocks. According to our data, instruments being traded on Free Trials reflect the instruments being traded on Challenge accounts and FTMO Accounts as well, and as we have not registered such interest in stock trading on the Free Trial accounts as forecasted. In the initial rollout on 25th January 2021, there will be 10 major stocks available to trade and we will assess the situation further based on the interest shown.
2. Significant MetriX improvement is one of the goals for the upcoming year. So far we are improving our current technology to prevent most of the delays and at the same time, we are slowly preparing on adding new technology into our infrastructure to provide real-time data. But as I’ve said previously, this is rather a long-term change which will not be done in the nearest future.
3. Server timezone is again one of the topics that could be internally discussed again. We will gather feedback information from our traders and if we decide to make any changes, you will be certainly informed beforehand.

Quoting Trader-IT
{quote} Hi Tomas. I do not want to comment in depth on Your answers. I've been rude and conceited in the last few posts and that's not me (the history of my posts is public and searchable). Sorry Tomas for my behavior. Unfortunately, although I thank you for your answers, I found some shortcomings and misunderstandings. A very frustrating thing. 1) I didn't give any tickets or references because (in my case) I was on free trials and I don't drive anyone crazy to investigate. 2) Unfortunately the daily max dd didn't work as you say it does. I'm sorry...
Hello again Trader-IT,
All forgiven. I’m happy to see your mature attitude and high level of self-reflection. Now, let’s get to your points:
1. Our support works in a centralized system, therefore we are able to see all of the clients' active or past cases. You can also get a ticket reference upon request.
2. The Max Daily Loss works exactly as described on our website. What can happen from time to time is an unfortunate data-fetch error. We have managed to greatly reduce the occurrence of these errors by putting additional verification systems in place. Note that any report of the issue is investigated and we can always locate the error upon our analysis and fix it.
3. I’m glad we agree on this matter and yes, the market can be unpredictable and take the trader close to the violation, however, I believe a good trader should be prepared even for such unexpected situations.
4. I’m not exactly sure what do you mean by „What if Monday is the first day?“, would you please clarify which issue are you referring to?
5. I’ve checked our chat communication with you and I admit you’re correct, our chat agent did give you the incorrect information that the instrument name for DAX on the FTMO Account is ger30.cash instead of DE30 for MT4 and GER30 for MT5. I apologize for that and already trained the relevant support agent further on the matter.
Instruments specifications changed to close only - With the addition of new liquidity providers for Free Trials, we have stopped supporting old symbols that streamed quotes from old LP. Clients who had open positions on those symbols could close their positions only and if they wish to trade the symbol, they will have to choose from our new selection.
6. I understand that in order to correctly set up your EA, you need to know as much information about the instruments as possible. As we are using Free Trial accounts to test the new instruments (stocks, indices) and LPs that are not yet included in the Challenge/FTMO Accounts, the list is not completely the same. If you want to know information about the instruments on the FTMO Account before actually starting the Challenge, you can always ask us at [email protected], moreover, you can describe your strategy and provide your EA source if possible. Most of the EA strategies working on our Free Trials can be replicated on the live market as well.
The list of the instruments available on the Challenge/FTMO Accounts is now available on our website here https://ftmo.com/en/symbols/
7. This thread illustrates the dilemma with server time quite perfectly. In the previous post I addressed, Delta-vega wrote that he considers the server time being aligned with the time important for Max Daily of crucial importance. The „double opening“ on Monday is caused by the server time, which is set in a way the Max. Daily loss resets exactly at midnight of the server time. Our plan was to change the server time to GMT+2 on a New Year’s Eve, however, we’ve later decided not to perform the change as the midnight CE(S)T (Max. Daily loss reset) would be offset from the midnight server time. I’ve also sent you the analysis of your previous Free Trials that confirm the MetriX values, please check your FTMO-registered email for the message.

Quoting KarlKraus
{quote} I agree. The irony is, they've probably asked people to post like this, imagining that it boosts their credibility, whereas in reality it can do them nothing but harm by making them look desperate. Extremely badly judged.
Hello Karl, Our CEO Otakar sometimes check in with some of our FTMO Traders and asks if they wouldn’t mind writing a review, but we do not coerce anyone to post positive reviews nor do we reward anyone for doing so.

Quoting delta-vega
My recent summary just crossed paths with a reply from FTMO. Catching up on email today and can report FTMO has confirmed the Max Daily Loss was incorrectly calculated: {quote} It sounds like they're now aware this is an ongoing larger issue which could cause this specific incident to arise. I'll be replying to ensure they understand it occurred several times previously for me (which it sounds like they do, but he only mentioned that one position). Will also ask them to follow up with the others here who've reported the same issue with detailed...
As I’ve described previously, the issue that occurred on your account is related to a double in the data-fetch. We’ve recently managed to reduce the frequency of this error greatly and we continue working on fixing the issue and implementing new technologies until the issue is solved completely. Most importantly, we are always open for communication in order to spot the issue, fix it, and compensate for the lost trading time or financial damage (if applicable) as soon as we can. If you have any doubts regarding your previous accounts, you can of course address them at any time. We’ve also fixed the issue and contacted you about a week ago, so please contact us directly to confirm the time compensation.

Quoting EricTW
How do FTMO traders trade a live account and a challenge account at the same time using downloaded MT4? Will a copy trader work with a slave account that is not open?
Hi EricTW, there are multiple ways to manage multiple accounts at one time. You can either have multiple platforms opened or you can trade on a different device. There are multiple trade-copying softwares, some of which require the slave account to be open while others do not, so make sure you’re fully informed before you start using it.

Quoting FXSayWhat
hi is this the official thread from FTMO.com? please help verify. thank you.
Hello FXSayWhat and welcome to our community! I can others have already answered your question, but I’d also like to confirm that this is an official FTMO ForexFactory thread.

Quoting cdk1212
Hi, Does anyone know if FTMO will allow or not allow the use of EA's during the challenge & verification & live FTMO Accounts? Meaning, do they allow the use of EA's during all phases? tks, cdk
Hi cdk1212, we allow using EA’s during all stages. We are looking for responsible and profitable traders and if your EA works for you and would fit out Trading Objectives, feel free to use it. Please note that you are fully responsible for any EA you decide to youse and in cases of EA malfunction, you can’t claim any compensation based on issues caused by the EA.

Quoting AnRan
Just chiming in for anyone wondering about server speeds with a VPS. I'm currently in Southeastern USA. My home internet is fiber optics dedicated 500mpbs download, 500mbps upload (500/500). My computer is 1TB NVME, Intel core i7-10700 CPU @ 2.90GHz, 32gbp DDR4 3600RAM, I still average 108ms to the FTMO server. On the NY VPS server (2 core, 4gbp ram, upgraded bandwidth, ssd) its about 70ms, and with the London VPS server (2 core, 4gbp ram, upgraded bandwidth, ssd) it's 2ms to the ftmo-server. So their UK servers are very nice. It's where I'd recommend...
Hello AnRan, as our servers are located in London, I can confirm that setting your VPS in or close to London will give you the best latency.

Quoting touchstoneR
@Tomas-FTMO is FTMO having problem paying their traders? I have not received my share of the profit since the split on 2nd January 2021. And i have not being given the login for the new account to continue trading. Are you guys having any problem paying?
Hello TouchstoneR, there are certainly no problems with paying our FTMO traders. You’ve chosen your preferred profit split date on 5th of January. I’ve later informed you that due to the increased workload after New Year's Eve we had to clear, your profit split would be processed most likely on 11th Jan. I don’t wish the stir any emotions, but as this is a public thread I consider important pointing out that you have taken the 11th out of context and presented it as if I said it would for sure be processed on 11th. The excerpt of my email to you is „(...) I assume it should be processed tomorrow - on Monday 11th January. (...)“ The payout has been sent on the 12th of January, therefore if you have not already, you will receive your profits shortly. As we need to know whether you decide to carry any of your profits to the new trading period in order to provide you with the new FTMO Account of correct balance, the new FTMO Accounts are not sent till your withdrawal is processed by us and thus you did not receive the FTMO Account before. I can see you received a new FTMO Account, have started trading already and wish you the best of luck in your next Trading period.

Quoting maahome
{quote} Payment for challenge with PayPal is not available (Payouts to PayPal are however). cheers maahome
Hi Maahome, I have to correct you there, we can send profit splits via bank transfer or Skrill only.

Quoting JayCeee
Hi everyone. Had anyone else been waiting for their funded account after passing both stages of challenge in december?Have been waiting for 25 days and sent them an email on two separate occasions and received replies that they are working on it ,however waiting almost a month so far find it quite excessive.
Hello JayCeee, generally, it takes us 1-2 business days to verify and legitimize trades on the Verification account, and after the trades signs the FTMO Account Agreement, another 3-5 business days to set up the FTMO Account. I’m not sure what happened in your specific case. Please contact us at [email protected] with a summary of your case and I’m sure we will resolve or explain the situation promptly. Thank you.

Quoting Takisd
{quote} they use transfer wise for all transactions afaik.
Hello Takisd, I’ll have to correct you there, TransferWise is one of the transfer services we use, but we’re also sending payouts from our bank account directly to our trader’s bank account by a simple bank transfer. We also pay our FTMO Traders via Skrill if that is what they prefer.

Quoting Rayder4Life
{quote} When someone who is promoting your companies service writes a text that looks taken straight out of a spam email i dont think it can do you any good. Besides it makes you think that FTMO could make their own reviews, who knows who made that acccount, maybe it was someone from FTMO, reviewing their own company. It brings no credibility.
Hi Rayder4Life, I’d like to address the same point as to KarlKraus above. From time to time, our CEO Otakar connects with some of our FTMO traders asking if they wouldn’t mind reviewing us, but we are always looking for honest feedback. I also hope you don’t really think we would be so desperate to review ourselves using fake accounts.

Quoting WojakPips
they are making c book forex thats why they removed other brokers from their platform. they are making money from failed evaluations, thats it. If they show me their millions of dollars real account which copying the trades, i am gonna believe them.
Hello WojakPips, as I’ve mentioned before, we were encountering technical issues with third-party brokers quite regularly (I’m sure those of you who have been with us back then can recall that) and we simply wanted to provide our trading platforms over which we have full control and can properly plan all changes and carry out all necessary changes without any delays. We are not a broker, we cannot accept your funds. Through our FTMO Platform solution, we simply connect our traders with institutional live market data-feed directly from our liquidity providers using Direct Market Access (DMA). Regarding the capital our FTMO traders handle, that comes from our long-term private investor.

That’s about it for this week, I hope all of my answers were sufficient and helped you to better understand how we operate and our approach to some of the topics we were discussing. In the meantime, we’ll keep working on our every-day tasks as usual in order to ensure that 2021 will be the best year for FTMO Traders yet. Thank you for keeping our thread vivid and intersting, see you all next time!
  • #5,314
  • Jan 18, 2021 10:49am Jan 18, 2021 10:49am
Quote
some of the symbols will be available only in close-only mode to allow the traders to exit the positions on these instruments.

Does anybody know what this means?
  • #5,315
  • Jan 18, 2021 10:56am Jan 18, 2021 10:56am
Quoting fx11trade
{quote} Does anybody know what this means?
@fx11trade -- some symbols are going away (or changing). So, what about traders who still have open positions? It means those with open positions will still be able to close them, but new Entries won't be allowed. If you don't have open positions, then it doesn't affect you.
  • #5,316
  • Jan 18, 2021 5:42pm Jan 18, 2021 5:42pm
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Spot on Andy imo. For Retail some brokers will have B-Book Accounts for certain of their customers. And the broker would hold the aggregate of trades for those designated (B-Book) customers IN HOUSE. Those trades do not reach the next level of forex liquidity. Then should the “aggregate” amount (of those B-Book trades) fall outside their risk model then accumulated funds would find their way up to the ‘next level’. Which is the brokers’ Liquidity Providor (who might be ‘dirty’ by the way that their brokers were not giving them the full liquidity...
Pete -- if you don't mind, I have a newbie question about B-Booking -- or, if anyone else cares to respond...

It's been said that with B-Book accounts the broker "bets against you". But is that really the case? I mean, if B-Book trades remain "in house", doesn't that mean the broker uses the money from clients' losing trades to pay clients' winning trades? Since there will be more losing retail trades than winning, there will always be enough to cover the winners. So -- why bother sending the trades to the next level? And if that's the case, then are brokers really betting against their B-Book accounts, or simply short-circuiting the flow of transactions? It seems that from where the retail trader sits the net affect is the same. And can you really blame the brokers if this B-Booking saves them the fees associated with passing transactions to the next level? If we were in their shoes we'd probably do the same. I have some gaps in my understanding of how all this works and was just curious...
  • #5,317
  • Jan 18, 2021 6:39pm Jan 18, 2021 6:39pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} And if that's the case, then are brokers really betting against their B-Book accounts, or simply short-circuiting the flow of transactions? It seems that from where the retail trader sits the net affect is the same.

Hi Steve, seems the way I would think about it too.

I have come to the conclusion that it is the "aggregate" holdings that are the key to understanding B-Book, not the individual trader's lot size entry (but of course the individual traders collectively make up the aggregate "in-house pool" and a decision to B-Book might be based on the Broker's statistical analysis of their client base and their trading style/success).

Takisd made an interesting point (as an ex-broker himself) that martingale traders might well be B-Booked collectively (I guess as in the longer term they are more prone to blow up - real martingale that is, an exponential doubling down on a losing trade - as I knew it in the horse racing game - while averaging down is not quite the same, but still very dangerous once a "point of no return" is reached).

So I don't have a drama as such with B-Book.

But if a broker holds my trade in house then I would like access sometimes to see a time-stamped trade receipt myself. Takisd indicated Broker's may have some restrictions on providing that though.

I'm for an open playing field, so I would prefer my trade to go out to market.

That's when it gets tricky because 'what" is the market.

My mini lot trades, if going out to what I call the the market, would merely sit with the LP that picked up my trade and collected into THEIR aggregate pool.

We can never know the machinations because we are not "inside" their walls.


Andy said it best - who cares, as long as his payouts keep coming.


This is probably not the thread for such discussions Steve, as from what I read, and regardless how they do it, FTMO are offering retail traders that qualify an opportunity to trade on a higher a/c dollar base than they might have access to in their own personal cash holdings.

Like a collective, it may be the way of the future (especially since ASIC, in Oz, plan to enforce traders to deposit between 6x and 10x into their current trading accounts at the end of March if they wish to trade at only the same level at what they do at present)

Thx ASIC lol.

But maybe thx FTMO in forging a 'new' way for retail to participate at a higher level.


(Investors world wide 'out there' with big money are starved at present for 'return' on investments as Central Banks pull in interest rates to near zero, so the FTMO style firms may be the future for us basic retail traders)


Again sorry Tomas-ftmo
  • #5,318
  • Jan 18, 2021 6:41pm Jan 18, 2021 6:41pm
Hello Tomas,


"Quoting maahome
{quote} Payment for challenge with PayPal is not available (Payouts to PayPal are however). cheers maahome
Hi Maahome, I have to correct you there, we can send profit splits via bank transfer or Skrill only."

Apologies for the incorrect info.

Regards
maahome
  • #5,319
  • Jan 18, 2021 7:15pm Jan 18, 2021 7:15pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} Pete -- if you don't mind, I have a newbie question about B-Booking -- or, if anyone else cares to respond... It's been said that with B-Book accounts the broker "bets against you". But is that really the case? I mean, if B-Book trades remain "in house", doesn't that mean the broker uses the money from clients' losing trades to pay clients' winning trades? Since there will be more losing retail trades than winning, there will always be enough to cover the winners. So -- why bother sending the trades to the next level? And if that's the case,...

b-book means broker is 100% against you. It doesn't mean order matching, like the above said. It doesn't mean netting positions its purely taking your trade inhouse like a casino.
A-book is straight to liquidity, C-book is where you can play games with matching netting hedging adding etc. Most large brokers now earn more per thousand by c-booking. Only shitty marketing companies operating as a broker now operate a pure b-book model and those are the ones you see with complaints on a weekly basis at FPA like "XYZ is not paying my profit out..help".
  • #5,320
  • Jan 18, 2021 8:00pm Jan 18, 2021 8:00pm
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Hi Steve, seems the way I would think about it too. I have come to the conclusion that it is the "aggregate" holdings that are the key to understanding B-Book, not the individual trader's lot size entry (but of course the individual traders collectively make up the aggregate "in-house pool" and a decision to B-Book might be based on the Broker's statistical analysis of their client base and their trading style/success). Takisd made an interesting point (as an ex-broker himself) that martingale traders might well be B-Booked collectively...
Pete -- you are a prince. Thank you...
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