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  • #901
  • Edited 1:11pm Jan 12, 2021 1:00pm | Edited 1:11pm
Quoting allinazi
{quote} if someone gives u 30% DD it does not mean that you have to use 30% you can as I do work to 10% if I go over by 5% it’s not an issue ... theoretically never going anywhere near 30% I have posted my results for past 6 months ooo look the drawdown ... And I have 30% limit... must be gambling {image} {image}
Dude 30% makes sense only when you give big account. For example do they give you 100K account with 30K drawdown. Dont tell me you have to earn it. I am talking about from start. If yes than no brainer.
For 4K account your prop firm giving 1K drawdown that too your own money what a big deal?
Percentage wise it looks good in excel like 10% monthly for 10 years will make you multimillionaire but every body knows how realistic it is.

By your logic how many people are converting 100$ to 5000$. We probably heard many stories.
Show me single story where 10K account is converted to 500K percentage wise both of them are same.
  • #902
  • Jan 12, 2021 1:38pm Jan 12, 2021 1:38pm
Quoting sampat
{quote} Dude 30% makes sense only when you give big account. For example do they give you 100K account with 30K drawdown. Dont tell me you have to earn it. I am talking about from start. If yes than no brainer. For 4K account your prop firm giving 1K drawdown that too your own money what a big deal? Percentage wise it looks good in excel like 10% monthly for 10 years will make you multimillionaire but every body knows how realistic it is. By your logic how many people are converting 100$ to 5000$. We probably heard many stories. Show me...

Hey..

Yes i know its my money i never said it wasnt.. see i invested 1k and after my first pay cut i got my investment back (because i made it in profit). However i just decided to reinvest the 1K back in and get another 5k off them,, so for 1k i now have a 10k account rather than 5k ,, and i will continue to do this.. until the max allowable on the incubation program( sell below ) and then i will push them to consider more funding. The good thing it is performance based i.e return/dd rather than having to hit a target so i think if your good you can make a good case.. but well see i am the 1st guy on it so who knows....
but yes if i lost the 30% 1k of mine and 500 of theirs..

so they have 2 programs 1 is the incubation one which is for deposits (1-5k).which i am on ... the other is acceleration which is a min 20k deposit but i dont have too much information about this and they can fund u 200, 500k.

I have extracted a part of the email that was sent to me

If he is going to join the Acceleration

1) He funds his account with $20K and then they give him another $20K.

If he does well, they could give him x5 times allocation within 6 months, so he will have $100K to trade
Let's say he doesn't have $20k. They can consider funding him, so he has the $20K required.(see below)

If he has $10K, they will give him another $10K so he can start. But this will happen for selected cases that are really doing well.
If the trader has return/drawdown>2 after 3 months, they will add 2 more units to allocation and do that again after 3 months. The goal is to reach $100K within 6 months.
More funds

They can fund a trader with even more capital like $200k, or $500K or more however they do not want to formally say they will go that high and they would like to judge the performance and the person when the time comes.


NOW i do not know what the drawdown limits are for the bigger accounts ... now i vaguely remember having the conversation with my mentor who actually is on the accel program and he said to me you have to understand theres a 30% dd on the incubation but theres isnt restrictions on the accel .. I use his slack service and i cant get a hold of the old messages because its free.. but what i will do is ask him tomorrow and let you know#
But ill private message you if thats ok i dont want really to be advertising or anything ... even though it seems like my intentions were not that at all... it was more specifically to 5%ers success rate.
  • #903
  • Jan 12, 2021 1:44pm Jan 12, 2021 1:44pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Very solid results. Serious question, as I know the 5%ers scaling program is far superior to most firms I am aware of.....you're peak drawdown is 5.2% , even if we look at deepest valley of 7.7% why not just tweak position sizes a bit and go for the larger capital offered at the 5%ers?

look yes i agree with what you are saying and i am calculating to see if i can make it work and do as AnRAN mentioned just use my mirroring to adjust the parameters what i do with my clients...

the things is ftmo 10% success rate however got to do 2 challenges and i dont think they allow weekend holds
blu fx have recurrent fees and i know theres only a handful of fund managers ... ( i was with these guys ) and with limited leverage 1:3 which is not bad but trading to make 5%-10% and having to pay recurrent fees is a pain
5% ers to be fair does look good because in terms of rules apart from dd (which yes i know its just a parameter adjustment) looks good ..

you guys making a good case for it !!!
  • #904
  • Jan 12, 2021 1:51pm Jan 12, 2021 1:51pm
Quoting sampat
{quote} Dude 30% makes sense only when you give big account. For example do they give you 100K account with 30K drawdown. Dont tell me you have to earn it. I am talking about from start. If yes than no brainer. For 4K account your prop firm giving 1K drawdown that too your own money what a big deal? Percentage wise it looks good in excel like 10% monthly for 10 years will make you multimillionaire but every body knows how realistic it is. By your logic how many people are converting 100$ to 5000$. We probably heard many stories. Show me...
It's people like you that feed other people's arguments. You've obviously NEVER traded a large account. 30% drawdown never makes sense in a professional environment. There is something called a fiduciary relationship!

If you can't trade a small account you have no business trading a big one. Let me ask you this, if you have $1,000 in your account, how many lots, more or less should you, or do you open? Now if I asked you how many lots should you open for $10 million. One, you probably have no idea. Two, cause you have $10 million you now advocate risking $3.33 million? ("30% makes sense only when you give big account"-sampat). Forex is a $6 trillion a day market, even $10 million is crumbs in the cookie jar.

You ever feel the psychological effect of opening a 40 or 50 lot trade on a live account? The key to getting over that barrier is knowing the profit column doesn't mean anything. It's knowing no matter win or loss, you are never going to lose more than 0.5% or 1%. And because the risk is small, one doesn't ever need to feel worried, or second guessing every trade, every small pullback, etc.; all the psychological effects that come with looking at a loss or seeing profits diminish.

This is why it's important that you treat everything as a percentage. So that if its 1k or 1 million, both your gains and risk are CLEARLY defined. Consistency. If I ever go to the bank and ask the teller what their interest rates are on saving accounts and she says "if you give me 1k its 2% annually, but if you give me 1 million I've got no idea, its whatever we make later on". Your balance should make no difference to the risk you apply to the account. I just don't know any other way to explain this to people who still struggle with risk management, it seems a hard lesson to learn for so many of you.

Edit:

On a side note, I give 5ers a lot of props in this area. Because they understand people have an issue here. That's why if you mess up as a portfolio manager, you don't just lose your account like FTMO. They reach out to you, speak with you, figure out what happened, work on a solution, an actual team mentality.
The best strategy is a profitable one.
  • #905
  • Jan 12, 2021 2:02pm Jan 12, 2021 2:02pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Very solid results. Serious question, as I know the 5%ers scaling program is far superior to most firms I am aware of.....you're peak drawdown is 5.2% , even if we look at deepest valley of 7.7% why not just tweak position sizes a bit and go for the larger capital offered at the 5%ers?
"I do work to 10% if I go over by 5% it’s not an issue" -allinazi

Because he's playing devil's advocate. He's a more responsible trader than his argument would suggest. Forum's have a way of making people lose themselves to the argument, lol.
The best strategy is a profitable one.
  • #906
  • Jan 12, 2021 2:06pm Jan 12, 2021 2:06pm
Quoting AnRan
{quote} "I do work to 10% if I go over by 5% it’s not an issue" -allinazi Because he's playing devil's advocate. He's a more responsible trader than his argument would suggest. Forum's have a way of making people lose themselves to the argument, lol.

lol i never suggested going anywhere near 30 % dd....

i traded at 100k for blu fx for some time with 1:3 leverage...

and that's the same style I trade with these guys... but the difference is i don't need to hit targets to get more money i just trade after quarter get my split..

what i will never do is max out risk on every trade i dont think i ever go over 1:10 leverage even though i have 1:100 available
  • #907
  • Jan 12, 2021 2:36pm Jan 12, 2021 2:36pm
Quoting allinazi
{quote} lol i never suggested going anywhere near 30 % dd.... i traded at 100k for blu fx for some time with 1:3 leverage... and that's the same style I trade with these guys... but the difference is i don't need to hit targets to get more money i just trade after quarter get my split.. what i will never do is max out risk on every trade i dont think i ever go over 1:10 leverage even though i have 1:100 available
I sound like a sales rep for the 5%ers lol. So other than the initial 7%, which you have 6 months to hit, and it takes your account from 20K to 80K, there are no targets. Just trade and take your split. However, when you do hit 10%, whether that be a month, 3 months,6 months, they double your account up to a max of 1.28 million. You can have 3 of these accounts. Nothing else to pay other than the original evaluation fee . This is what attracted me to join 5%ers, the scaling plan.
  • #908
  • Jan 12, 2021 2:49pm Jan 12, 2021 2:49pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I sound like a sales rep for the 5%ers lol. So other than the initial 7%, which you have 6 months to hit, and it takes your account from 20K to 80K, there are no targets. Just trade and take your split. However, when you do hit 10%, whether that be a month, 3 months,6 months, they double your account up to a max of 1.28 million. You can have 3 of these accounts. Nothing else to pay other than the original evaluation fee . This is what attracted me to join 5%ers, the scaling plan.

Hahah yes sounds good I’m tempted to give it a go
  • #909
  • Jan 14, 2021 8:20am Jan 14, 2021 8:20am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @Dmh -- you are wrong -- it doesn't work. Terminal.exe needs the rest of its environment contained in the installation folder. I just now tried what you suggested. Terminal.exe launches -- but completely blank. No existing logins, no indicators, no EAs, nothing. And then 10 seconds later Windows pops up a message asking whether it should allow Terminal.exe to make changes to my machine. @Dmh -- it was sufficient to suggest your idea, even though it doesn't work. No need to call names, you clown...
I'm not wrong.
And if Terminal.exe asks to make changes to your machine you just click “later”.
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  • #910
  • Jan 14, 2021 9:23am Jan 14, 2021 9:23am
Quoting Dmh
{quote} I'm not wrong. And if Terminal.exe asks to make changes to your machine you just click “later”. {image} {image}
@Dmh -- for one thing that is MT5 and, second tihng, you may be running MT5 in portable mode.
  • #911
  • Jan 14, 2021 10:04am Jan 14, 2021 10:04am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @Dmh -- for one thing that is MT5 and, second tihng, you may be running MT5 in portable mode.
I’ve done it with MT4 in the past as well and I’m not running MT5 in portable mode. I have no idea why it doesn't work for you. I'm just returning to the exact same situation as before the update including EA's, indicators, templates, profiles and logins.
  • #912
  • Edited Jan 15, 2021 2:59am Jan 14, 2021 11:51pm | Edited Jan 15, 2021 2:59am
Hey guys, just want to check with you if the5%ers MT4 server is available in Duplikium(Trade copier)? I've been using cTrader since I started trading forex and all my risk management codes/EAs are there. I tried to search online and check the available MT4s brokers in Duplikium but cannot find it. Hope someone can help me on this as I decided to try the evaluation.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know why people are still discussing about Drawdown/Leverage/Rules - it's pretty fair and straightforward, especially for the5%ers. It's better to focus on your goal. Don't like the rules? Then stay out. There are hundreds if not thousands of active traders with them. The main goal here is to pass their evaluation so that you can "borrow" their capital for you to build your own capital and trade on your own if you want to be allowed to have higher drawdown. Goodluck having a 30%+ drawdown using your hard earned $100k live account.

Trading with online prop firms. ie the5%ers:
1) ZERO risk -> for the5%ers you trade with "real" money on day1. Your allowed max drawdown is more or less your fee (so don't give that bullshit statement the5%ers earn from fees). When you pass, you basically refund the fee you paid to them + you get x4 capital.
2) Exponential growth -> double your capital every 10% profit. That means if you get 70% (for the 40k evaluation) in 12 months, you get 1.28 million dollar capital by the end of the year. More maths -> that's 5.8% every month with -4% max drawdown. Sounds fair to me.
By the end of the year with your 1.28m live account, you'll have a max drawdown of 51.2k. That is
1k risk = 51x
2k risk = 25x
3k risk = 17x
loosing trades in a row before you blow your account! It depends on your risk management of course.

But the big question here is .... are you willing to deposit your hard earned $$$ thousand/million to a broker? I am pretty sure I will NOT do this. It's very risky even if the broker is a US or UK or AU regulated broker.
adapt or be killed
  • #913
  • Jan 15, 2021 4:23am Jan 15, 2021 4:23am
Quoting slappymove
Hey guys, just want to check with you if the5%ers MT4 server is available in Duplikium(Trade copier)? I've been using cTrader since I started trading forex and all my risk management codes/EAs are there. I tried to search online and check the available MT4s brokers in Duplikium but cannot find it. Hope someone can help me on this as I decided to try the evaluation. ------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't know why people are still discussing about Drawdown/Leverage/Rules - it's pretty fair and straightforward,...


Again people keep picking on this 30% DD thing..... the point is you don't need to use the 30% . This is through another funded program... its not my all my capital...

you have 30% --- work to 1/3 of that number 10% if you have few % above no issue you should never go near the 30 % dd limit.

When you have limited dd you have limited upside as well... because you wont be able to risk 1% on a trade at 5%ers because its just too much

yes we know 0.25% of 1.28 million is good money ... but it will take a long time to get there (which is no issue) but u have to make 10% to double correct? how % per month do u think u can do with 4% dd limit per month? the thing is the upside is limited also

here is my results again with a 30% DD oo look it can be controlled...... just because its available its not a license to go full risk that's being irresponsible
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  • #914
  • Jan 15, 2021 5:02am Jan 15, 2021 5:02am
Quoting allinazi
{quote} Again people keep picking on this 30% DD thing..... the point is you don't need to use the 30% . This is through another funded program... its not my all my capital... you have 30% --- work to 1/3 of that number 10% if you have few % above no issue you should never go near the 30 % dd limit. When you have limited dd you have limited upside as well... because you wont be able to risk 1% on a trade at 5%ers because its just too much yes we know 0.25% of 1.28 million is good money ... but it will take a long time to get there (which is no issue)...
@allinazi -- this is great -- you can control it. But suppose 1000, or 10000 people sign up with @the5ers -- how many of them do you think can control it? Just because YOU, @allinazi, can control it doesn't mean @the5ers should adjust their requirements at the risk of attracting 9999 others who can not.

I know you'll then suggest that @the5ers should make an exception for you. But don't you see they don't know you from Adam. How do they know you can control it? How do they know you aren't one of the 9999 who can't control it? How much money do they have to lose to find the 1 in 10000 who can control it?

I had previously offered you a proposition but you didn't respond. I will place $250, $500 or $1000 -- you choose -- in an escrow account and you open a $100K account for me that allows up to 30% DD. I'm not asking you to start a new company -- simply asking you to provide to me the same account conditions you want them to provide to you. That's all -- put your money where your mouth is. If you're not willing to do that for me -- who you know is a professional and highly successful trader -- then why would you expect them to do it for 10000 traders who are complete strangers to them?
  • #915
  • Jan 15, 2021 5:13am Jan 15, 2021 5:13am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @allinazi -- this is great -- you can control it. But suppose 1000, or 10000 people sign up with @the5ers -- how many of them do you think can control it? Just because YOU, @allinazi, can control it doesn't mean @the5ers should adjust their requirements at the risk of attracting 9999 others who can not. I know you'll then suggest that @the5ers should make an exception for you. But don't you see they don't know you from Adam. How do they know you can control it? How do they know you aren't one of the 9999 who can't control it? How much money...

i think theres a lot of confusion going around... re me and this 5% ers.. i didnt have intentions of joining i just came on to ask what the success rate was for traders after 1 year through the program... and things went of in a tangent... im quite happy where i am and my funding program

you are 100% correct not everyone can control the 30% dd and not everyone will be able to pass the evaluation or not bust at some point with 5%ers but thats just trading...


what's this escrow? thing i have never heard of it ? i am putting my money where my mouth is im showing you a live track record (around 6months) ... and this is through another funding program like i mentioned before.... they are putting up most the capital that i trade with me not me ... they have set the conditions not me... they are industry professionals who set it up .... not me
  • #916
  • Jan 15, 2021 5:21am Jan 15, 2021 5:21am
Quoting allinazi
{quote} i think theres a lot of confusion going around... re me and this 5% ers.. i didnt have intentions of joining i just came on to ask what the success rate was for traders after 1 year through the program... and things went of in a tangent... im quite happy where i am and my funding program you are 100% correct not everyone can control the 30% dd and not everyone will be able to pass the evaluation or not bust at some point with 5%ers but thats just trading... what's this escrow? thing i have never heard of it ? i am putting my money where...
@allinazi -- thanks for your response. But then I don't understand why you continue to bring this up. If you have a question about their success rate then why not ask them? They have an excellent web site and are very responsive. How would anyone here know what their success rate is?

BTW -- escrow is a type of account managed by a bank. Money deposited in escrow protects both parties who sign an agreement. The money is released once the bank has confirmed both parties have fulfilled their portion of the agreement. I could send $1000 to your PayPal account, but then what assurance would I have that you will actually open a $100K account in my name? Escrow is commonly used by mortgage lenders, but there are other applications.
  • #917
  • Jan 15, 2021 5:25am Jan 15, 2021 5:25am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @allinazi -- thanks for your response. But then I don't understand why you continue to bring this up. If you have a question about their success rate then why not ask them? They have an excellent web site and are very responsive. How would anyone here know what their success rate is?

i keep bringing it up because other people keep bringing up the 30% as if its like sacrilege or something... but anyways each to their own ... well someone suggested that the it was called 5% ers that s that answer lol
  • #918
  • Jan 15, 2021 5:34am Jan 15, 2021 5:34am
Quoting allinazi
{quote} i keep bringing it up because other people keep bringing up the 30% as if its like sacrilege or something... but anyways each to their own ... well someone suggested that the it was called 5% ers that s that answer lol
@allinazi -- I don't understand -- why is it funny? Would you prefer they call themselves 99%ers? I thought it was common knowledge most traders are not profitable. If 95% of traders are not profitable, then if I had to pick a percent of traders who do not pass the5%ers challenge I would probably go with 95%. What would go with? What percent do you think would pass if 95% of retail traders lose money on their personal accounts?

This is starting to make my brain pucker. If only 5% of traders are successful with their personal accounts then are you suggesting the burden is on 5%ers to convert the remaining 95% into successful traders? I don't get what you are insinuating.
  • #919
  • Jan 15, 2021 5:46am Jan 15, 2021 5:46am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @allinazi -- I don't understand -- why is it funny? Would you prefer they call themselves 99%ers? I thought it was common knowledge most traders are not profitable. If 95% of traders are not profitable, then if I had to pick a percent of traders who do not pass the5%ers challenge I would probably go with 95%. What would go with? What percent do you think would pass if 95% of retail traders lose money on their personal accounts? This is starting to make my brain pucker. If only 5% of traders are successful with their personal accounts then...
@allinazi -- okay, I think I'm beginning to understand the confusion here. You think the purpose of the 5%ers is to convert people who register into successful traders. That's why their name is funny to you, right? However, what i am saying is that is not their purpose.
  • #920
  • Jan 15, 2021 5:50am Jan 15, 2021 5:50am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @allinazi -- okay, I think I'm beginning to understand the confusion here. You think the purpose of the 5%ers is to convert people who register into successful traders. That's why their name is funny to you, right? However, what i am saying is that is not their purpose.

hey no i found it funny because when i initally asked success rate then the whole thing went in to tangent ... to me getting suspended for 24 hours.... and then someone just wrote success rate prob 5% thats why they are called the 5%ers it was just humor after all that had happened


but yea i get what you are saying on a serious note
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