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In 2021, day trading in Germany will be dead

  • #341
  • Jan 11, 2021 1:25am Jan 11, 2021 1:25am
Quoting Doomseeker
If they are taking away day trading then it si probably for good reason. We do know that we have the time difference and yet markets are linked. Therefore we are all supposed to have a general tiem f trading eve though it is not going to be aligned with our actual time. Your time of the day which you call day trading may be another alces night trading and so the conflict arises from that. There are therefore some people who are forced to do night trade because they do not have much of an option. Then again we can never be sure of what the future...
It actually has nothing to do with "Day or Night Trading". It´s about the deductible losses being limited to 20000 Euros.
Day Trading is associated with the number of trades, and potentially more volume accumulated.
You could do in a year 2 trades, all in one day, loose 900000 in one, win 1000000 in the other, you will end up with a huge debt, although you made 100000 profit.
That is the beauty of comunism.
  • #342
  • Jan 11, 2021 2:00am Jan 11, 2021 2:00am
Quoting cuchuflito
{quote} Trading GmbH gründen...you tube ist voll mit infos auf Deutsch. Und ja, wenn Du weiter so machst bist Du voll betroffen, das heißt so funktioniert es einfach nicht nehr!
Zum 482847198. mal - und es funktioniert doch! Die Gründe habe ich mehrfach dargelegt. Wer sich natürlich jedem Schwachsinn beugen möchte, darf das selbstverständlich tun. Deine Verallgemeinerung ist aber trotzdem falsch.

Eine Trading GmbH gründen halte ich dagegen für den komplett falschen Weg (und das sagt jemand, der bereits ein Unternehmen hat!).
  • #343
  • Jan 12, 2021 12:44am Jan 12, 2021 12:44am
If there will not be day trading then there will have to be something else because there can't be nothing. Forex is still popular in Germany from what I can get and there is still the night trading. I Think there are going to be night traders from now on until the day trading comes back or any tiem trading comes up. Day trading is what most people like to do because the market is usually very active at such a time and it is easy to make better predictions adn then choose whether to buy or sell. Then there are those who go for the night when the market into that active and are still able to make good prediction because of the clear market outline.
  • #344
  • Jan 12, 2021 5:36am Jan 12, 2021 5:36am
Quoting Yolarkahen
If there will not be day trading then there will have to be something else because there can't be nothing. Forex is still popular in Germany from what I can get and there is still the night trading. I Think there are going to be night traders from now on until the day trading comes back or any tiem trading comes up. Day trading is what most people like to do because the market is usually very active at such a time and it is easy to make better predictions adn then choose whether to buy or sell. Then there are those who go for the night when the...
you are completely wrong.
  • #345
  • Jan 12, 2021 6:55am Jan 12, 2021 6:55am
profitable German traders will change primary residence to one of many other EU countries with out much hassle. Not profitable will have to stop trading. Its simple.
  • #346
  • Jan 12, 2021 7:24am Jan 12, 2021 7:24am
I think the more traders come into the market and are successful more countries will be like this. I have recently read 10 million people across the world are now trading
  • #347
  • Jan 12, 2021 9:23am Jan 12, 2021 9:23am
Quoting CraigMcG2020
I think the more traders come into the market and are successful more countries will be like this. I have recently read 10 million people across the world are now trading
There were 9.6 million of us trading online in 2016 so it probably increased to 10 million. Of interest is the disparity between UK and Germany:

A Map of the 9.6 Million Online Forex Traders [Infographic] (brokernotes.co)
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  • #348
  • Jan 12, 2021 12:24pm Jan 12, 2021 12:24pm
Had to move my Oanda account Uk to EU as suggested by the broker.
After the hassle, now up and running, but they gave me a call last night. To comply with regulations, they reduced the margin I had, to 30.1.
I´ve been with them for almost 15 years, it used to be 100.1
I guess they want to bring it down to 1.1
And then definitely kill this business.
I Love Europe, but I don´t blame my very good UK friends that voted for Brexit, they say the EU is now communist, probably not that exaggerated lol.
  • #349
  • Jan 12, 2021 1:42pm Jan 12, 2021 1:42pm
Quoting cuchuflito
Had to move my Oanda account Uk to EU as suggested by the broker. After the hassle, now up and running, but they gave me a call last night. To comply with regulations, they reduced the margin I had, to 30.1. I´ve been with them for almost 15 years, it used to be 100.1 I guess they want to bring it down to 1.1 And then definitely kill this business. I Love Europe, but I don´t blame my very good UK friends that voted for Brexit, they say the EU is now communist, probably not that exaggerated lol....
I also have an old Oanda account with 100:1 leverage and live a little over 6 months in Cyprus each year to keep my tax residence although I still pay taxes in the US. No change for me yet. Trading oil with a 30:1 leverage would not affect me but trading the DAX at 30:1 would require me to increase my account value substantially unless I divide my lot size by 3.
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  • #350
  • Jan 13, 2021 4:32am Jan 13, 2021 4:32am
Quoting cuchuflito
Had to move my Oanda account Uk to EU as suggested by the broker. After the hassle, now up and running, but they gave me a call last night. To comply with regulations, they reduced the margin I had, to 30.1. I´ve been with them for almost 15 years, it used to be 100.1 I guess they want to bring it down to 1.1 And then definitely kill this business. I Love Europe, but I don´t blame my very good UK friends that voted for Brexit, they say the EU is now communist, probably not that exaggerated lol....
As you can see on my previous post my leverage was 100:1 so buying one lot of the DAX was no problem. Today I got the attached message when I bought one lot of the DAX. I was not contacted by Oanda about a change of leverage. Since I'm not an EU citizen and don't live in Europe it looks like the problem is not related to Brexit but to a change of policy by Oanda.
Attached Image
  • #351
  • Edited 11:06pm Jan 13, 2021 7:34am | Edited 11:06pm
Check this one
They are setting up the Finanztransaktionssteuer, tax on every time you buy and sell a stock, ONLY German big stocks, meaning they do want to protect foreign companies and hurt the german ones!!??
If that was not ridiculous enough: the money they expect to collect: 1,5 billion Euros. This goes to financing the miserable minimum pensions that many old folks will barely get.

It gets cuter. State employees, "Beamten", don´t pay a cent monthly for retirement! The next ten years, estimated cost of that: 647 billion!!!!!!!!!, which we pay with our taxes.
And even nicer, they retire earlier, cause they work harder right?

https://www.focus.de/finanzen/alters...d_7356813.html
  • #352
  • Edited 12:54pm Jan 13, 2021 11:50am | Edited 12:54pm
I stumbled upon this article: https://finanzmarktwelt.de/steuer-ho...wortet-154905/

According this article they got a reply from the Finanzministerium stating that Forex (Spot Market) is not affected by the new law. Only CFDs on Forex would be affected.

I do not know if there would be a difference between ECN and market maker brokers.

Anyway.... who knows what true and what isn't...
  • #353
  • Jan 13, 2021 11:14pm Jan 13, 2021 11:14pm
Quoting SlappyHours
I stumbled upon this article: https://finanzmarktwelt.de/steuer-ho...wortet-154905/ According to this article they got a reply from the Finanzministerium stating that Forex (Spot Market) is not affected by the new law. Only CFDs on Forex would be affected. I do not know if there would be a difference between ECN and market maker brokers. Anyway.... who knows what true and what isn't...
That was 12 months ago. Most brokers offer CFD Forex.CFD is poison for the German finance minister.
True ECN? Maybe, I don´t think they understand the difference anyway.
Allowed, and tax-free is to buy Lotto, until shortly the State had the monopole. Lotto is a loser´s game, 100%, but they don´t want to "protect the investors", millions and millions of dummies who through their money in the garbage.
The chances of winning the jackpot for Christmas, are lower than getting hit by lightning in your bathtub, really, someone took to the trouble to calculate that.
  • #354
  • Jan 27, 2021 12:14am Jan 27, 2021 12:14am
Have you guys seen this in Australia? I thought only Germany was clamping down on traders!

Here´s the link: https://financefeeds.com/oanda-plays...1100-leverage/


"From 29 March 2021, ASIC’s product intervention order will:

 

  1. restrict CFD leverage offered to retail clients to a maximum ratio of:

    1. 30:1 for CFDs referencing an exchange rate for a major currency pair
    2. 20:1 for CFDs referencing an exchange rate for a minor currency pair, gold or a major stock market index
    3. 10:1 for CFDs referencing a commodity (other than gold) or a minor stock market index
    4. 2:1 for CFDs referencing crypto-assets
    5. 5:1 for CFDs referencing shares or other assets



  2. standardise CFD issuers’ margin close-out arrangements that act as a circuit breaker to close-out one or more a retail client’s CFD positions before all or most of the client’s investment is lost
  3. protect against negative account balances by limiting a retail client’s CFD losses to the funds in their CFD trading account, and.."

  • #355
  • Jan 27, 2021 1:22am Jan 27, 2021 1:22am
Quoting cuchuflito
Have you guys seen this in Australia? I thought only Germany was clamping down on traders! Here´s the link: https://financefeeds.com/oanda-plays...1100-leverage/ "From 29 March 2021, ASIC’s product intervention order will: restrict CFD leverage offered to retail clients to a maximum ratio of: 30:1 for CFDs referencing an exchange rate for a major currency pair 20:1 for CFDs referencing an exchange rate for a minor currency...
30:1 Leverage is more than fine... I risk 1% on every single trade on an 8-pair portfolio and never had margin issues. The maximum simultaneous open trades I had were 4, and I had enough margin to open 2 more.

I would rather have 50:1 or 100:1 like I once had, because I could just ignore the margin problems or even amplify my position size to 2% risk per trade, but one must also see the non-sense brokers were doing with 500:1 and 2000:1 leverage as I once saw... What were they expecting? ofc regulators came in and show them a huge hammer, that was more than expected.

There are still solutions for the problem... go to a non-regulated broker... but who wants to put their hard earned money on a broker like that?
  • #356
  • Jan 28, 2021 10:22am Jan 28, 2021 10:22am
Ich vermisse die Zeit, als ein und ausgezahlt wurde mit Liberty Reserve. In De dachten die meisten Leute Forex ist was zu essen...

Ich bin bei Oanda in UK geblieben. Ich traue der ganzen Malta / Zypern Kommissionen nicht.
  • #357
  • Jan 28, 2021 10:28am Jan 28, 2021 10:28am
What I don't understand. I have a statement from broker and there you see net profit or loss. 'Finanzamt' now want to have the detailed statement with each open/close position? How do they recognize the loosing positions and my used leverage? I have to study this...
  • #358
  • Jan 28, 2021 11:15am Jan 28, 2021 11:15am
Quoting chrissfx
What I don't understand. I have a statement from broker and there you see net profit or loss. 'Finanzamt' now want to have the detailed statement with each open/close position? How do they recognize the loosing positions and my used leverage? I have to study this...
The german tax authorities (Finanzamt) will require from you a detailled statement listing every single trade, then to prepare 2 lists (columns): List A consisting of winning trades, list B consisting of all your single losing trades.

List A is basis for taxation -- you might deduct the losing trades from List B, BUT only up to max 20k € annualy. If you have other derivative trades or pairs trades, this 20k deduction is restricted for ALL derivatives.

It`s even worse with options trading - you end up paying tax on your losses!
  • #359
  • Jan 28, 2021 10:17pm Jan 28, 2021 10:17pm
Verluste bei TermingeschäftenNeue Steuerregel könnte für Anleger teuer werden


https://www.n-tv.de/mediathek/videos...e22321926.html
trading is like dancing, don't think and just listen to the music!
  • #360
  • Jan 29, 2021 12:08am Jan 29, 2021 12:08am
Quoting chrissfx
What I don't understand. I have a statement from broker and there you see net profit or loss. 'Finanzamt' now want to have the detailed statement with each open/close position? How do they recognize the loosing positions and my used leverage? I have to study this...
Shouldn´t be a big problem getting "the list" from the Broker. All EU operating brokers will have to provide that.
The issue is how long will the unconstitutional tax will hold, there are already legal actions from trader groups underway. It will take time, also depends on the next elections, if the SPD gets together with the Greens, bye-bye Deutschland.
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