FTMO - For serious traders

Yeah that is a rotten rule IMHO

Ok. Noted. What do you suggest?

Oh. Wait...

do you mean the existing rule, or the one that I suggest?

Glad to see my report getting some validation. Sorry to hear of others having trouble, but hope my report is of some use in turn confirming the things you've been seeing.

Apologies for the long post but I wanted to follow up in conversation with several replies as well as provide further evidence to FTMO that we're not actually incompetent and there's a real issue to be addressed.

Shoot. Sounds like exactly the same thing I'm seeing. I had been hoping what I saw was just a glitch caused on the first day of a challenge or something. Do I assume right that this was not the first day of your challenge?

Wow, that's a great point that I hadn't even considered. After some thought, it seems that is actually possible. Not according to the official rules, but according to how it acts in practice. If you made a number of profitable trades while unprofitable ones were running in the background, then depending on the details of how it calculates and where this bug is originating from it seems like you could lose even if balance and equity both only increased from a certain point. But not closing positions has its own drawbacks...

Yeah, sounds like you ran into some similar issues. I read back to your earlier posts. From looking at your previous posts and some of your data it sounds like you are experiencing the same thing. Sorry that no one believed you. One challenge is that there are so many not paying attention to equity vs balance and so forth that people assume it's one of those scenarios, or they just say "oh there must have been another open trade" or "oh it must have wicked down" or "oh you must have held through an event". Forum posts are whatever, but it only becomes frustrating for me when FTMO support assumes I don't know what I'm saying even after we discuss those specific aspects and I have to convince them to take the report. Report that there might be any issue on their end and they say "that's very unlikely".

You and I actually discussed a little bit some time back in regard to MetriX not updating. The big concern I have is not knowing that it didn't update. So it's "fine" to say oh stop trading and wait for us to reset it, but I have to put effort into triple-checking and there's little way for me to tell on the first trade of the day. More worrying is that last experience, where I definitely saw it updating, but it turned out part was and part wasn't which is a critical distinction. Some values (balance etc) were updating, but some like number of trades were not. So it would further look like everything was in order without a very close look to notice the silent failure, and then the discrepancy in daily loss as discussed. I think your point is well-taken that it's an issue to say "informative only" when there are very stringent rules, timezone issues, etc.

Regarding the next day, the rules do say your scenario is possible:
But I would double-check with Tomas because it sounds like that reset time is changing (for the better, sounds like).

Tomas, one question I have regarding the reset time is do I understand from your earlier post that the reset will be going from local time at your office to a fixed offset from UTC? This would be very preferable for me but I'm concerned because currently my server is set to UTC+1 which matches the "Timezone Converter". How will this change be announced? I want to make sure I don't miss it.

It does reset on the day but it does not stay there as it should. Whenever the balance reaches a new high of the day, the daily loss is improperly calculated from that new high from then on. Just want to clarify as well that my case did not involve a carry over to the next day. This was all in a single day (first day of challenge) which made it easier to isolate.

Might be advantageous to close all positions at end of day just to keep things simple; only risk would be it bouncing right then plus the spread.

Fortunately, the existing rules are actually already simpler than what you suggest. The permitted daily loss target is set at the beginning of the day using a fixed offset (based on account size) from the opening balance (note the key distinction with opening equity above). Although it sounds like you're arguing for using the opening equity, rather than balance? The risk in that is if you were holding a trade you were up on, then you could fail even if you had a stop loss on the trade. So unless they wanted to do something complicated with "the lower of opening balance/equity" I'd rather we focus on getting the existing rules working rather than changing them.

The daily loss rule was detailed by Tomas upthread and I went through it in excruciating detail with support. It's not supposed to be a trailing drawdown. The fixed drawdown is the thing that makes FTMO stand out among other much scammier options; now the daily loss limit puts a little wrinkle in that, but I accept Tomas's argument for its utility. But it's again supposed to be a fixed drawdown for that day. Any actual floating drawdown would make it very hard to maintain an account and I wouldn't want to see FTMO move to that model.

Here is the rule as described on FTMO site (annotated, and excerpted because FF truncates quotes):
So you can see I have read the rules and do understand what I'm talking about, and now hopefully this issue can be given attention.

Honestly I would much prefer to see in MetriX a simple, e.g., "$47500 minimum equity allowed until 2021-01-06 00:00 UTC". It could also show a "remaining loss" if desired. But it seems like that would eliminate a great deal of the confusion, and as long as the bug is fixed would make MetriX delays much less critical.

Tomas, it sounds like there has been some trouble nailing down these issues with the daily loss. I'm happy that I was able to find some definitive evidence to let you fix the bug. I would like to request something very simply in return. As mentioned I purchased 2 challenges during the recent sale. First, I would obviously like to see the 2 trades 1631463 and 1631465 reversed (again, I'm not asking for the profits I gave up when abandoning my plan on noticing this issue, but I don't think it's fair I should be down from executing the first phase and only aborting due to this bug), and the time reset due to pausing my challenge for this evaluation. Second, I would like the other challenge, the one that put me onto this issue, reset; I fully acknowledge I ended up violating the overall drawdown after reporting it, but another try seems like a fair "bug bounty" to reward finding this, and costs you nothing (you might also consider something for the others who have contributed, especially e.g. Trader-IT and doyathink who have been providing detailed reports and graphs). At that point all my concerns would be completely to rest, as long as this issue gets fixed. Thank you in advance for considering.

P.S. I do consult in systems integration and have had some luck devising ways to trigger alerts when input stops being received from even unreliable or sporadic external systems. I have some thoughts on how MetriX might be able to automatically detect accounts that stop updating, and especially that partially updating scenario which is the most concerning; this would be without the need to go to real-time monitoring. Happy to discuss how I might be able to contribute some thoughts for your team.

This is exactly the rule. I have never had an issue with matrix in funded, verification or challenge. It usually updates within 90 seconds for me. Keep in mind, the FTMO "day" resets at 6 pm eastern, not sure if this has anything to do with anyone's issues. As I have previously posted I lost my first 2 challenges due to this. Although I check the matrix for accuracy, I will never rely on it. Check your equity at 6 pm eastern, you cannot drop more than 5K below that equity before 6 pm eastern next day. Keep in mind any floating gains or losses at 6 pm are now the next days gains or losses. Not sure what kind of risk everyone is using, but at 0.5 % risk per trade, you shouldn't even need to be looking at the matrix. This is not a 1 day challenge.

This is assuming positions are closed at 6 pm eastern. Otherwise, your equity may reflect a 4K floating loss, in which case you only have 1K loss for the day. Of course, carrying a gain of 4K allows you 9k loss for the day.

yes, delta-vega, this observation was not on the first day...

I agree with this formula you propose:

Honestly I would much prefer to see in MetriX a simple, e.g., "$47500 minimum equity allowed until 2021-01-06 00:00 UTC". It could also show a "remaining loss" if desired. But it seems like that would eliminate a great deal of the confusion, and as long as the bug is fixed would make MetriX delays much less critical.

yes, that's the rule, perhaps...
but it's not how it is being applied, it seems.
As on that day I show (post #5,155) where both equity and balance rose, were never more than $2600 apart, yet the metrix gave a $4200 drawdown.

no thats a trash rule. if i have made enough profits that i am happy with then i can choose a day to risk all the daily profits + max daily loss to go for a big one.

say if i wanna make 4 k a month and have made 10k that month and +1k on a single day i might as well risk 5k on one trade to make a total of either 5k or 20k.

+ it is gonna be really hard for most traders to track their drawdown.

i generally dont look at the metrix since i tke only a few trades within the day and one pair at a time so i know every moment what is goin on, but most traders dont do this

Some notes:
- I open and close transactions within a maximum of 2 hours and do not bring anything to the next day.
- 18:00 east is 00:00 on the FTMO server, the end of the day. So everything ok.
- I am aware that the levy is fluctuating. I know well.

- 0.5%? But what if after a few hundred dollars, the max is already exceeded?
The max DD must reset every day. And if I make $ 200 today, the max dd becomes 2700. But that's the rule in theory. In practice we do not see this, but something else. Sometimes even different from each other.

I repeat: I have the most careful management on the financed account. But the challenge has 20 working days. Making 0.5% profit a day is a good thing. What if you're wrong 2-3 days out of 20? What is possible. A 10% error is normal. NO ONE has 100% winnings. So after 1-2 or 3 days of 0.5% loss, what% do you need to raise your winning trade by before closing the day? Not every day is ideal for trading and there is always a maximum of 20 days of work.

- IMPORTANT I had the main problems on the first day of the trial or on Monday. It is as if in the absence of data from the previous day, the Matrix went crazy.
- IMPORTANT. READ CAREFULLY. Could another aspect be the data feed? Is it possible that only 1 "extreme" tick is not detectable on the chart? Maybe I have heard something like this in the past, and it could justify a floating withdrawal not detectable by the Trader.
Also because yesterday (Monday) the indicator I posted indicated -2500 and beyond, already after the first loss of a few hundred dollars and for sure I didn't have a fluctuation of -2500. Last week I wasn't sure, today yes. This fact about the total historian. While bringing the history on the result of the day, 2 different indicators were not working.
The last two important points make me think about the feed.

(In the image the two alarms reported on the log of the day)



PS:
I am working with three visual charts: US100cash - xauusd - ger30cash

Trader-IT

Is it possible that only 1 "extreme" tick is not detectable on the chart?

I am guessing yes, but don't know for sure...
again, a very big spread on a large position can cause a momentary drawdown that is huge...
(rollover, especially weekends, and announcements or events)

You are right.
But yesterday I closed today and there were no important announcements or events or tweets.
A spread widening that justifies $ 2500? Even a blind man would see it. I don't use EA and walk away from the computer waiting for success or failure. I keep my eyes fixed on the screen and (even if I have to) I don't go to the bathroom (if necessary).

It is serious work for me. I take my responsibilities and fulfill my obligations.
It is called professionalism. Something that few know today.

I'm not referring to you and anyone else.

ftmo is the best i got funded 100k and doubled the 100k it in the first month. im waiting for my withdrawal and going to take home roughly 70k after the profit split. im excited!

Deleted as useless post
Sorry

only time you should be worried about getting re quoted is if your pulling up with 5-10 scalp trades.

if youre only doing 1-3 each trading day there is no problem

other than that FTMO has taken great care of me.

I use the same indicator, and I don't understand how it calculates the numbers... they make no sense to me. So I don't use that part. I use the dollar levels of the blue and red lines... can use the crosshairs function and double click and drag between any two points to see how many dollars difference.

In the final Matrix is not correct. The indicator is incorrect. We have no possibility of a secure verification.

FTMO is legitimate. I am convinced. Except that he continues to have big problems and it is not good.
For now, I don't want to talk any more.

I delete my previous post because it makes no sense and deviates from the real problems.
I apologize.

No I just think that if one gets to say $102000 on a $100k account, then one should be allowed $7k loss even the next day. But they won't do that of course!

ya they wont its max -5k no matter how big you grow your 100k account UNTIL you get scaled in by FTMO then your loss per day is higher

why think about losses if youre strategy is good it doesnt matter

not to brag but this is the only way to pass the challenge, steady and slow and let the trades work.

all of you guys above, reaching the daily loss limit, you aint passing the challenge that way. (i repeat, i understood this the hard way, like all forex traders)
the screens below are my second verification stage

if you analyze my sceenshots you can prety much see my trade management on a 100k account.

as i said before, i am takign it slow, if it was the challenge i would do the exact same thing + a few more trades to average 800€/day instead of 500

i am still not trading the funded acount, waiting 6 more days to pass the second verification and merge the accounts. after that i will target 1k/day

good luck to u all

Thanks for showing off your results. I think for mentoring I will wait to hear from someone who has traded real money.

I want to clarify, we are not reaching the daily loss limit. The system is incorrectly treating it as if we are, precisely because we are up for the day.

If I make 800, then lose it (so I am back at even for the day), and close all positions, then open a new trade so there is floating loss from the spread, the FTMO system thinks I am down $1000 even though I am only down $200 for the day. This is exactly what happened to me. I reported it to support, they doubted me (of course) but took a report and assured me thrice over that my minimum equity for the day was $47500 (it being a brand new challenge) and that if there had been any issue (which they doubted) it surely would not recur. But it did recur, and I ended up having to abort my trade plan at a significant loss because I was about to trip that limit according to MetriX, even though I was nowhere near it according to the rules. I've reported this and am waiting for them to fix the issue and credit my account. Right now I cannot trade because once you report an issue you have to wait for the investigation.

Maybe your trade style is more small scalps and so you never hit even a trailing drawdown (or maybe the bug is intermittent). That may be fine if it works for you. And there are services that impose that sort of limit. But FTMO very clearly advertises that it is a fixed overall drawdown and a fixed daily limit reset daily, with closed profits giving you more room to work the rest of the day. That is not what the system actually enforces, and we have provided documentation.

Just replying so the very clear reports don't get lost in the noise. Tomas, when you check this thread (which I hope is soon) please take a look at my post from yesterday and those following. I believe we have made a very clear presentation, for those who read thoroughly.

P.S. FTMO Support replied, and the full entirety of their "investigation" was:
They didn't even bother to glance at all the logs and details I was asked for, because naturally the user is always wrong and doesn't know what he's talking about. I wasn't frustrated before, but now I am.

Tomas, please look into this promptly.

Please, take away 2 curiosities.
Have you already failed a trial before?
Do you work outside the classic 28 Forex pairs?

I have a bankruptcy and work with us100cash - xauusd - ger30cash.

I'm looking for one or more commonplace, among traders who have these problems.