The5ers - Trading & Growth Program | Page 32 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Billy & Jim TMA & Channel & Life Health & Wealth 1,084 replies

Unbalance Parentheses & Unexpected End of Program 3 replies

ECN && STP && Scalping && Hedging - Broker Review - Oct 2009 24 replies

All about MT4 Program, Indicator, Script & EA 81 replies

Fisrt Program - Safe Trading 26 replies

Attachments: The5ers - Trading & Growth Program
Exit Attachments

The5ers - Trading & Growth Program

  • #621
  • Dec 2, 2020 11:42am Dec 2, 2020 11:42am
Quoting Trader-IT
{quote} Please Gil, why is it no longer possible to load the bar history? The M1s are at most until November 27th (only 3 days). I need to have a higher M1 bar history. I used two scripts, one more reliable than the other and I have never had such a problem before. In the MT4 options, the number of bars is at the maximum, but I also tried to reduce it, with the same result. Thanks.
I don't know what broker's platform you might be using but this utility usually works well with downloading history: https://www.mql5.com/en/market/product/22919
  • #622
  • Dec 2, 2020 12:15pm Dec 2, 2020 12:15pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} I don't know what broker's platform you might be using but this utility usually works well with downloading history: https://www.mql5.com/en/market/product/22919
Thanks for the help.
Just to make sure of it, I tried to download the one you recommended.
But it refuses to work. Do not worry it's not a problem.

The ones I have works, except that M1 history is limited to only 3 days (now).
In September, the first time I did this, at least for the three pairs I've been using since, it uploaded more history to me.
For all three I arrive until September 30th, which is more than enough for me.

Whit this , you can also select a single pair (without having to load them all if you want). I have been using it for many years now.

Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 ForceLoadHistoricalData_mod.ex4   11 KB | 173 downloads

This one is for everyone.
Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 STS_LoadHistory.ex4   117 KB | 155 downloads
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
  • #623
  • Dec 2, 2020 2:04pm Dec 2, 2020 2:04pm
Exclusive version for The5%ers

For other currencies, see in paperclip or on my profile

Attached Image

Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 Indy EOS 1000pipsMINI-only gbpcad.ex4   19 KB | 142 downloads
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
  • #625
  • Edited Dec 4, 2020 1:28am Dec 3, 2020 10:41pm | Edited Dec 4, 2020 1:28am
Quoting ElectricSavant
Hidden
@ElectricSavant -- thanks for your openness. I am also starting out and your sharing helps me. I don't like to fail -- but I've been around long enough to know that stumbling is often part of the process. So -- I'm in it to give it a go. And if it works out then great. And if not, I'll regroup, figure out where I went wrong, and give it another try. Until recently my trading has mostly focused on maximizing profit -- but prop trading is different -- the focus is on managing money and risk. And I like that -- but it's a different way of trading for some of us and requires a different approach. And the more I think about it the more it occurs to me this is a better approach to trading -- regardless whether you are participating in a prop trading program or trading your own money.

Best of luck in your trading...

EDIT: I'm a (serious) hobby trader (and software developer) and would never risk large sums of my own money. But let's suppose I trade my own 5K account and can grow it roughly 200% per year and take out the profits at the end of each year. That's roughtly $10K / year. And growing it 200% isn't so easy, right? But if I have access to a 100K account and can remain disciplined and focused on risk and money management, I only have to grow it 10% each year to earn the same profit (ignoring the profit sharing thingy). And 10% I can do in my sleep. Though it's a calculated risk -- like most things in life -- I think it's one worth taking. And if after a few months I crash out, then I'll lick my wounds and jump back in again -- either with the @the5ers or another program who's requirements better suit my trading strategies. I think these new prop trading companies open doors to serioius traders who either may not have access to a lot of capital or who aren't inclined to risk large amounts of their own.
  • #626
  • Dec 4, 2020 3:45am Dec 4, 2020 3:45am
Quoting ElectricSavant
Hidden
Ciao ES.
Mi dispiace leggere questa notizia.
Ti auguro fortuna... successo e una buona salute per tanti anni a venire.

Hello ES.
I'm sorry to read this news.
I wish you luck ... success and good health for many years to come.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
  • #627
  • Dec 4, 2020 4:24am Dec 4, 2020 4:24am
Using the cheapest plan as an example, in a 6K evaluation account, you can't lose more than $250. That is your risk money. You don't have 6K to play with. The $5750 of the 6K is basically none accessible to you. So, to say here is 6K and go make $360 (6%) is misleading.

Tell me, Mr. Anderson. What good is a phone call, if you’re unable… to speak?
-Agent Smith

You have to play with $250 and make $360 with it. That is 144%.
Same with all the other plans.

That's why if you get stopped out at $250, the 5ers doesn't lose any money and in fact makes $25 I guess as an administration fee for facilitating your account.

I'm not dissing it but just giving it a different perspective. If you can make 144% in 6 months (288% per year), then yes, you deserve a promotion I guess. Considering banks pay something like 1%/year, someone making 288%/yr is not a 5%er. They are a .005% or so among traders. In world in general, they are a .00000000005%ers.

Do I make sense or have I been staring at my monitor too long?
  • #628
  • Dec 4, 2020 4:51am Dec 4, 2020 4:51am
Quoting ElectricSavant
Hidden
Keep your head up!!
  • #629
  • Dec 4, 2020 6:02am Dec 4, 2020 6:02am
Quoting OutThere
Using the cheapest plan as an example, in a 6K evaluation account, you can't lose more than $250. That is your risk money. You don't have 6K to play with. The $5750 of the 6K is basically none accessible to you. So, to say here is 6K and go make $360 (6%) is misleading. Tell me, Mr. Anderson. What good is a phone call, if you’re unable… to speak? -Agent Smith You have to play with $250 and make $360 with it. That is 144%. Same with all the other plans. That's why if you get stopped out at $250, the 5ers doesn't lose any money and in fact makes $25...
Let's put it this way ...
I write about the case of a Manual Trader. The Algorithmic Trader has a different situation that I don't face now. It would take too long.

For me it is not a big problem, to make 0.1% per day on average (2% on average per month and therefore reach the target 6-7%), having to follow very strict rules, such as (in this case) those of The5%ers.
With FTMO, of course the average would be different. The same is true for any other Prop company. In reality, the same is also true for a private account.

Whatever % of risk or profit, a Trader wants to pursue, must follow a strategy or more, equally rigid and as profitable as possible.
A cold-blooded (non-emotional) neophyte, holding this fortune, with a little discretion (which makes human work superior to an EA) could really make a fortune.

The problem is another:
as humans we are subject to error (more or less than an EA, is subjective).
When you become familiar with the system and experience takes over, you tend to:
- anticipate the signals
- increase the investment because the last 30 operations were perfect and you want to earn more, given the "certainty" of the system
- work with distraction or with a non-optimal physical and/or mental form
- other.

Just one of these conditions is enough to ruin the days-weeks-months' work. And fail the targets.
I speak from personal experience of course.

Maintaining such a constant concentration for months, is difficult. Not impossible, just difficult.

I have been trading for 8 years and consider myself an expert. I'm actually still a rookie.
It is the same for any other highly professional activity in the real world.
The Gods on Earth, are people who have tens of years of constant work ... updating ... studying and other.
Except for more unique than rare cases, this is the harsh reality.

PS:
I love Matrix. Too many truths in it
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
  • #630
  • Dec 4, 2020 6:02am Dec 4, 2020 6:02am
Quoting OutThere
Using the cheapest plan as an example, in a 6K evaluation account, you can't lose more than $250. That is your risk money. You don't have 6K to play with. The $5750 of the 6K is basically none accessible to you. So, to say here is 6K and go make $360 (6%) is misleading. Tell me, Mr. Anderson. What good is a phone call, if you’re unable… to speak? -Agent Smith You have to play with $250 and make $360 with it. That is 144%. Same with all the other plans. That's why if you get stopped out at $250, the 5ers doesn't lose any money and in fact makes $25...
I follow your example.
With $ 6000 you have a total stop at -250$.
Use what 6000$ allows you by setting your SL to 25$.
You have 10 chances to be wrong. This is just an adjustable example.
Don't forget that the maximum loss level of 5750$ remains the same even when you increase your account.
At 6200$ you will have a stop at -450$. Which is always 5750$
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
  • #631
  • Dec 4, 2020 8:47am Dec 4, 2020 8:47am
Understanding the buying power of leverage and lot size in your trading account - The5ers Leverage


Inserted Video
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #632
  • Dec 4, 2020 9:09am Dec 4, 2020 9:09am
So sorry to hear that.
Electric Savant.

I have never believed in EA.
What I know Gil and IF are friends.
  • #633
  • Dec 4, 2020 3:12pm Dec 4, 2020 3:12pm
Quoting Trader-IT
{quote} Let's put it this way ... I write about the case of a Manual Trader. The Algorithmic Trader has a different situation that I don't face now. It would take too long. For me it is not a big problem, to make 0.1% per day on average (2% on average per month and therefore reach the target 6-7%), having to follow very strict rules, such as (in this case) those of The5%ers. With FTMO, of course the average would be different. The same is true for any other Prop company. In reality, the same is also true for a private account. Whatever % of risk...
Quoting Trader-IT
{quote} I follow your example. With $ 6000 you have a total stop at -250$. Use what 6000$ allows you by setting your SL to 25$. You have 10 chances to be wrong. This is just an adjustable example. Don't forget that the maximum loss level of 5750$ remains the same even when you increase your account. At 6200$ you will have a stop at -450$. Which is always 5750$
Hi Trader-IT

Yes, Matrix is amazing. There are numerous quotable lines in it that apply to all sorts of real life situations.

So, from what you have written, I take it that you are not in disagreement with me that the expectation of the evaluation plan is to find traders that display an ability to make 288% per year. It'd be really tough to put it that way in a promotional ad to attract such possible wanna be traders. Therefore, it needs to be sugar coated quite a bit to make it appealing. The "INSTANT FUNDING" phrase for $6000 in a real account is one such appealing lures. The real deal is that a trader funds his own account and trades his own fund and if successful, they will be trusted with 4X the funds. If they are able to make 10% again, then 2X. So, the 'be a superman and stay a superman' theme is consistent throughout the deal with an easing off cushion deal after the evaluation (no time limit to make whatever % you can make). The only thing I don't get is the 50% sharing scheme. Imagine hiring Superman to move the world for you and when he does it, you give him 50% of it. lol

There is no law against a business using luring language to attract business. That's the foundation of the advertising industry. We are bombarded with it every day. There are PR firms doing it for anything from products to would-be future celebrities or even politicians. It is also not surprising that all sorts of individuals or entities fall for the attractiveness of things that are highlighted while their downsides are discounted. I just peeled off some of the pizzazz to show the real potato in it's naked glory.

Anyhow. My apologies to the 5ers if I have tarnished the glow of the sparklies a bit. Just trying to be real here.
  • #634
  • Dec 4, 2020 3:55pm Dec 4, 2020 3:55pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} {quote} Hi Trader-IT Yes, Matrix is amazing. There are numerous quotable lines in it that apply to all sorts of real life situations. So, from what you have written, I take it that you are not in disagreement with me that the expectation of the evaluation plan is to find traders that display an ability to make 288% per year. It'd be really tough to put it that way in a promotional ad to attract such possible wanna be traders. Therefore, it needs to be sugar coated quite a bit to make it appealing. The "INSTANT FUNDING" phrase for $6000 in...
@OutThere -- though you addressed Trader-IT I can't resist adding my 2 cents.

I think you've got it totally discombobulated and can't get past your notion there is something bad lurking in the background. Your statement claiming they are looking for traders that can make 288% is totally bass-akwards. I think they are looking for traders who can consistently make 12%. The low-risk account has a profit target of 6% in 6 months -- SIX percent. That is 12% -- TWELVE -- in a year. If someone gave me 100K of their money and I only had to grow it 12% in a year, would I think that was an amazing opportunity? Hell, yes...

For a $275 USD fee they give you the opportunity to lose $240 USD -- is that so, so terrible? If you crash out you lose $35 more than if you were trading your own 6K account. But suppose you don't have a 6K account. What if it is only 1K or only $500? For people who don't have the capital or are disinclined to risk large amounts of their own, it's a win-win.

What you don't seem to grasp is that (a) you do not have to put up the big bucks to trade a larger account than you are currently capable of or willing to, (b) by trading a larger account you no longer have to focus on profit but, rather, very conservative risk and money management.

Granted that growing an account 288% would be very, very difficult and you would certainly incurr lots of risk and DD during the year. But if you only have to grow an account by 12% and it's not even your 100K, wow -- that's amazing. And I would claim that whereas growing an account by 288% would require surviving lots of twists and turns during the year, staying within convservative risk and money management guidelines is much easier and is something you have control over. It even lends itself to algorithmic trading where the software keeps you within the rules.

If I'm going to lose $275 USD, I'd much prefer to lose it trading @the5ers 6K account than my 1K account because I can earn more by conservatively trading 6K than I can aggressively trading 1K. Does that make sense?

EDIT: And, yes, The Matrix is an amazing, amazing movie...
  • #635
  • Dec 4, 2020 4:06pm Dec 4, 2020 4:06pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} {quote} Hi Trader-IT Yes, Matrix is amazing. There are numerous quotable lines in it that apply to all sorts of real life situations. So, from what you have written, I take it that you are not in disagreement with me that the expectation of the evaluation plan is to find traders that display an ability to make 288% per year. It'd be really tough to put it that way in a promotional ad to attract such possible wanna be traders. Therefore, it needs to be sugar coated quite a bit to make it appealing. The "INSTANT FUNDING" phrase for $6000 in...
@OutThere -- let me put it another way, because I don't think my above post will sink in. I'll pose it as a question:

Option #1: You trade your own 1K account and in the worst case you lose $240 USD.
Option #2: You trade someone else's 6K account and in the worst case you lose $275 USD.

Which option would you choose?
  • #636
  • Dec 4, 2020 4:07pm Dec 4, 2020 4:07pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @OutThere -- though you addressed Trader-IT I can't resist adding my 2 cents. I think you've got it totally discombobulated and can't get past your notion there is something bad lurking in the background. Your statement claiming they are looking for traders that can make 288% is totally bass-akwards. I think they are looking for traders who can consistently make 12%. The low-risk account has a profit target of 6% in 6 months -- SIX percent. That is 12% -- TWELVE -- in a year. If someone gave me 100K of their money and I only had to grow...
If I have $6000 of my own funds in my account, I can make 6% in a day. I think you said earlier that you could make 10% in your sleep.
Now, explain to me, why you can't make 6% in a day with the 5ers $6000 account?
Or can you?
  • #637
  • Dec 4, 2020 4:11pm Dec 4, 2020 4:11pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} If I have $6000 of my own funds in my account, I can make 10% a day. I think you said earlier that you could do that in your sleep. Now, explain to me, why you can't make 6% in a day with the 5ers $6000 account? Or can you?
@OutThere -- exactly. And if I have 100K of my own funds then I also don't need @the5ers.

For some reason you don't grasp the concept that this is all about conservatively growing an account much larger than what you can currently get your hands on. Instead of attempting to grow your smallish account at 288% / year, you can focus on growing a large account at only 12% / year. Which do you think is more realistic -- 288% or 12%?

Are you really going to use 10% / day as a realistic example? What I had said earlier was 10% / YEAR.

Also, that 6% is per YEAR. YEAR not day.
  • #638
  • Dec 4, 2020 4:20pm Dec 4, 2020 4:20pm
Look it -- I get that @the5ers is a business and their goal is to make money. That's fine and that's how it should be. But the fact they want to make money doesn't necessarily mean they want me to lose money. Yes, yes -- of course -- there are people and company's like that. But these prop trading companies -- at least some of them -- seem to have come up with a reasonable model whereby both sides can benefit. But in order for that to work the trader must stay within certain rules. The reason why the trader must stay within certain rules is because otherwise the prop trading company would lose money and go out of business -- and I don't think that is part of their business plan.

So, just like most things in life it involves trade-offs and a calculated risk. So, what else is new?
  • #639
  • Edited 4:34pm Dec 4, 2020 4:24pm | Edited 4:34pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @OutThere -- let me put it another way, because I don't think my above post will sink in. I'll pose it as a question: Option #1: You trade your own 1K account and in the worst case you lose $240 USD. Option #2: You trade someone else's 6K account and in the worst case you lose $275 USD. Which option would you choose?
Well, that's so negative. Why would I lose $240? Maybe I will make $240. Maybe more.
Because I have the freedom to take advantage of a setup that requires me to risk more than 4% of the account.

Okay, I do admit that the 5ers scheme makes a more careful trader out of a participant.
I also acknowledge that a trader who challenges this deal might have had quite a bit of experience trading (Unless daddy gave them their money).
I recognize that being successful under such restrictions requires amazing discipline. And on and on.
But the 50% split deal is very opportunistic and based on taking advantage of a broke trader who has spent a life time and a lot of funds to skill themselves enough to go through with this challenge.
All funding companies assume you just woke up this morning and you are going to swing a wand and make them money.
They totally neglect to understand that you as a successful trader, have an asset worth a ton of money based on years of experience and time and dedication to be able to do what you do.

Like I said, no one puts a gun to a trader's head to join the program but there is an underlying fact there that only a broke and heavily scarred trader will agree to do this because they may be desperate to give up 50% of their effort in exchange funds. I think the 50% share they want is really greedy. There is an element of 'agreed exploitations' involved. Why do you think the textile workers in the countries known for hard and cheap labor still work in those factories and put up with the conditions? Maybe it's because they have no choice expect the accepting what they are given?

But to say you have a $6000 funded account is misleading.
How do you explain the fact that as a trader I can access only my own deposit? Actually $25 less of it.
It's a 'twist the words' concept.

How about lets say I am a government body of some kind. The department of such and such. I declare that I am funding the anti racism (Or anything else) with a 5 billion funds for education and rehabilitation. Then in the small print, I also say that the community's taxes will be raised by 1 million and only $900,000 of the 5 billion funding can be used to encounter racism. If they don't manage to curb the racism with that 900K, then they have failed.

Alright, that's an outlandish example but, don't you smell the government mumbo jumbo in there?
You can make it sound great with speeches and townhall meeting and slogans but at the end of the day, the gov raised money by increasing taxes and then inflating the benefits and it was all along the talent and the astuteness of the proponents of the anti racism movement that should have taken that 900K and do miracles with it. Now don't make me quote Matrix to come up with a better example.
  • #640
  • Dec 4, 2020 4:38pm Dec 4, 2020 4:38pm
Alright, it's Friday.

My arguments are indeed frivolous and no one is going to care.

The only reason I'm saying what I'm saying is to make a point that I know what's going on.

Your argument is that while you know what's going on, you approve it, you like it and you want to work in your garment factory because it beats dying of hunger. It is also a valid argument.

I feel like I am really pissing off the 5ers. So I'm going to STFU and go away.
1 trader viewing now