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FTMO - For serious traders

  • #4,261
  • Oct 17, 2020 12:46pm Oct 17, 2020 12:46pm
Quoting stirmatt
{quote} I do not think this is peculiar to FTMO, I had the same experience with Hot Forex and I contacted them on it but their reply was that the sudden price fall on Cable could not give room for my SL and the trade has to be closed at available price.
Hard to ever trust what a B Book Broker says though. HotForex offers Instant execution (where stops and limits are guaranteed) as opposed to ECN/STP brokers who offer market execution and execute orders at the best available price from liquidity providers. So how come they also blame their slippages on market execution? I personally avoid brokers with a Nigerian presence as there is probably no protection, even though withdrawals may be faster.

But yeah, Slippage is a general and common issue and it's understandable, but the issue is the size of the slippage. 60 pips slippage is crazy for a demo account whereas i had only 10 pis slippage on my Live account with Global Prime.
  • #4,262
  • Oct 17, 2020 1:33pm Oct 17, 2020 1:33pm
Quoting Koop
{quote} Totally agree, it's a serious cause for concern. Imagine having almost 50 pips lesser slippage on my live account than FTMO's demo around the time, doesn't make sense. I can only imagine the volatility and consequential slippage effects of the random US elections poll rumours and news that are bound to pop up consistently through out November FTMO!! Get rid of LMAX.. even though i don't know why it should even matter since it's "demo".
Look who is bitching now...took you awhile but finally you getting it.
  • #4,263
  • Oct 17, 2020 2:02pm Oct 17, 2020 2:02pm
Quoting Atenoip
To be a profitable trader you need technological instruments, scientific background, A LOT of study, a lot of time, capitals and much more. I don't think that kind of skills are compatible with a third word unlucky guy but maybe I'm wrong..
You are soo wrong. I know many Nigerians who have spent years studying the market and have access to as much tools and info as others.
Most times only trading funds\capital hinder them.
Without despair & distraught, focus on Patience to FRESH MOTiVES.
  • #4,264
  • Oct 17, 2020 2:42pm Oct 17, 2020 2:42pm
Quoting driven18
{quote} Look who is bitching now...took you awhile but finally you getting it.
Lol No driven, I'm complaining about just one thing, not calling them a scam or thieving bastards with nothing to offer like you and others were doing initially.
Still the best among the rest.
  • #4,265
  • Oct 17, 2020 2:49pm Oct 17, 2020 2:49pm
Quoting Koop
{quote} Lol No driven, I'm complaining about just one thing, not calling them a scam or thieving bastards with nothing to offer like you and others were doing initially. Still the best among the rest.
I agree here and I did not say complaining - I said "bitching".
  • #4,266
  • Oct 17, 2020 3:11pm Oct 17, 2020 3:11pm
Quoting Koop
{quote} Hard to ever trust what a B Book Broker says though. HotForex offers Instant execution (where stops and limits are guaranteed) as opposed to ECN/STP brokers who offer market execution and execute orders at the best available price from liquidity providers. So how come they also blame their slippages on market execution? I personally avoid brokers with a Nigerian presence as there is probably no protection, even though withdrawals may be faster. But yeah, Slippage is a general and common issue and it's understandable, but the issue is the...
I have 16 pips slippage and that's the first time I am having such with HotForex. I will close all my accounts with them if it happens second time.
  • #4,267
  • Oct 17, 2020 5:49pm Oct 17, 2020 5:49pm
Quoting stirmatt
{quote} I do not think this is peculiar to FTMO, I had the same experience with Hot Forex and I contacted them on it but their reply was that the sudden price fall on Cable could not give room for my SL and the trade has to be closed at available price.
I'm not saying slippage doesn't exist. Read my post thoroughly to help you understand.

When rules are implemented to prevent someone from capitalizing on slippage because "you don't get realistic execution on a DEMO" vs a live account, but when it's a loss their response is "well that's just how live execution works". And that type of slippage is huge. My live accounts were about 20 pips. But by FTMO'a own reasoning, not mine, their reasoning, it's a demo so I shouldn't really be experiencing any!

Again, my bigger issue isn't the loss, it's if I had one other trade open with a 1% risk I would've exceeded a 5% MDL . Closing at the end of a 100 pip move is a bit concerning for someone like myself who thinks of the long term relationship with a firm. Cause honestly these risk objectives are easy. But I can do everything right and fail an account because the slippage on a demo is worse than on a live. Thats MIND BLOWING.
The best strategy is a profitable one.
  • #4,268
  • Oct 17, 2020 7:54pm Oct 17, 2020 7:54pm
Quoting AnRan
{quote} I'm not saying slippage doesn't exist. Read my post thoroughly to help you understand. When rules are implemented to prevent someone from capitalizing on slippage because "you don't get realistic execution on a DEMO" vs a live account, but when it's a loss their response is "well that's just how live execution works". And that type of slippage is huge. My live accounts were about 20 pips. But by FTMO'a own reasoning, not mine, their reasoning, it's a demo so I shouldn't really be experiencing any! Again, my bigger issue isn't the loss, it's...
fair enough...
maybe that's an indication that your trade sizes are too large for FTMO's current conditions...
better to remain profitable and alive, though fail the profit goal, than to blow the daily or overall max loss limit.
  • #4,269
  • Oct 17, 2020 8:21pm Oct 17, 2020 8:21pm
Quoting doyathink
{quote} fair enough... maybe that's an indication that your trade sizes are too large for FTMO's current conditions... better to remain profitable and alive, though fail the profit goal, than to blow the daily or overall max loss limit.
Not to insult you but that's a true beginner response. I don't choose how many lots. The lots are chosen by the percent risk and distance of the stop loss. And even that has nothing to do with the base claim. So this has NOTHING to do with my risk management.

You're making an excuse for them, but that doesn't help improve things. To say on their site you don't experience the slippage on a demo that you would on a live, but then experience worse slippage than on a live. They'll remove that trade from your account if you were profitable, do you understand that? but not if it were a loss. No news trading because demo doesn't experience the slippage. No pendings because demo doesn't experience the slippage. And they are right ,it shouldn't experience that slippage. When I open or close a trade on a demo there is no LP to accept and match the order. When I buy GBP someone else is selling it. This condition doesn't exist on a demo. Don't flip the switch onto me like my risk management is an issue.

There's a deeper, fundamental issue that needs to be addressed, whether it's server latency or even just realizing it shouldn't happen, just like their own claims. Not telling me my 1% risk was too high because an order closed 100 pips later on a demo.

No company is without faults. But sweeping them under the rug helps no one.
The best strategy is a profitable one.
  • #4,270
  • Oct 17, 2020 9:54pm Oct 17, 2020 9:54pm
"The lots are chosen by the percent risk and distance of the stop loss. And even that has nothing to do with the base claim. So this has NOTHING to do with my risk management."

you're not wrong...
but market and broker conditions both will sometimes exceed past conditions...
it's naive to think that they are reliable. your point about 100 pips becoming 200 pips is also not wrong... and someday 300 pips.

it's an uncomfortable truth to deal with,
but it must be accepted. Sometimes you can negotiate or make your case as a trader with a broker, but this is not always successful...

this is the strength, perhaps, in dealing with an intermediary like FTMO. At least the worst you can do is be chastened and lessen your risk, and have to re-qualify... the alternative is to lose thousands to the broker who will just say "market conditions... sorry, mate."
  • #4,271
  • Oct 17, 2020 11:15pm Oct 17, 2020 11:15pm
Quoting doyathink
but market and broker conditions both will sometimes exceed past conditions
No, it's not naive to think they are reliable. It's naive to think the broker has that much control. The technology should be reliable. Which is what this was, because it's a demo, so not market conditions.

I see where you're trying to go, but your argument doesn't hold weight because it's not a live account. It's a demo that performed worse than a live environment. There are solutions to this, not "just have to deal with it". Bringing up the issue allows there to be a search for a solution.

It's the same with spreads, ever since we got this new ftmo-server, middle of the week rollover isn't 60 pips on an asian crosspair. Once ftmo stopped saying it was normal and realized it was excessive, they focused on the solution. But plenty of people like you tried to justify those insane middle of the week rollover spreads. It just drew out an issue that could've probably been fixed sooner.
Quoting doyathink
Sometimes you can negotiate or make your case as a trader with a broker, but this is not always successful...
I never once tried to get compensation or have them reverse the trade. It's a loss, to me it's whatever. But there is hypocrisy in removing profits from the unrealistic execution/advantage that demos have over live, but try to justify losses. Anyways I've repeated that so many times, if you still don't get it then nothing more I can say. Not everything can be justified just because you like ftmo.

My goal is simple, for them to recognize it now so to avoid something like this causing unnecessary breaking of the objectives in the future. It can be done better, it should be done better, and I think it's important to point it out so I can have an amicable relationship with them in the future.
The best strategy is a profitable one.
  • #4,272
  • Oct 18, 2020 12:51am Oct 18, 2020 12:51am
FTMO's technology provider, Tools4Brokers (which Otakar named on this thread sometime ago) can be found here:https://t4b.com/

If all those glowing testimonials on the website can be believed, surely freezes and slippages and server crashes should not be occurring for FTMO's traders on a regular basis, should they?

(I can't help but compare how-- despite their recent server migration and the not-so-low latency due to my Asian location--my live evaluation with another funded trading program has been remarkably free from such problems. Just saying...)
Amor Fati--F. Nietzsche
  • #4,273
  • Oct 18, 2020 3:54am Oct 18, 2020 3:54am
Anran,

I hope you're right, and it can be improved, of course...

I'm not overly familiar with how the mechanics of demos vs real account work...
I think demos are supposed to reflect real world conditions as closely as possible, yes?
so the investors are not faced with a task of trying to copy unrealistic signals from us...

slippage, spreads widening, etc. are a part of it. Perhaps it's all negotiable...

the harder FTMO makes it for us, the safer it is for their investors,
as we adjust to make our trading safer.
  • #4,274
  • Oct 18, 2020 5:20am Oct 18, 2020 5:20am
Quoting doyathink
I'm not overly familiar with how the mechanics of demos vs real account work... I think demos are supposed to reflect real world conditions as closely as possible, yes?
I could honestly tell because you are talking as if demo and live are the same, they are not the same. They closely resemble in price, but they do not resemble in execution, whether its market execution, pendings, tp, or SL. I'll give you an example, if I opened 100 lots on EU at 1.12000, on a demo it would open at the spread cost, so 1.12001, but on a live account there would be slippage because the liquidity provider has to process that volume, so your entry would be more like 14 pips higher, like 1.12141. Even though you have a spread on EU of 0.1 pips, it has to get processed. You can't experience that on a demo.

It's why FTMO, if you go to their page on news, they recognize this very fact. If you were to set a pending order on a demo at that top line, if there was a news candle, it would fill at that top price because its a demo, but in reality a live account would fill at the bottom price. So the demo would make money but their live account would lose money. They would remove that profitable trade from your account. https://ftmo.com/en/faq/can-i-trade-news/

The point is, and as Koop rightly pointed out, and as FTMO's own website points out, demos don't have this type of slippage. The information I can gather, live accounts posted somewhere around 15-20 pips slippage (including my own)on that move. It wasn't a low liquidity period which would've made many live accounts have 40 or 50 pip slippage. So amazing that somehow this demo posted 100 pip slippage.
The best strategy is a profitable one.
  • #4,275
  • Edited 6:30am Oct 18, 2020 5:57am | Edited 6:30am
Quoting AnRan
{quote} so amazing that somehow this demo posted 100 pip slippage.
Slight correction, if you're referring to my post, it was around 56 pips (not 100)
  • #4,276
  • Oct 18, 2020 6:10am Oct 18, 2020 6:10am
Quoting tradista
{quote} I get what you're saying, agree totally, failing a challenge due to a large slippage. May I ask what live squawk service are you using ?
I think this is a strength of the5ers, because sometimes you do have to step back and look at it objectively. Anything can cause a trade loss, but I'd expect them to be a bit more malleable if it had caused an objective failure.

For which squawk service I use, I use livesquawk, not ransquawk. The core strength of Livesquawk is that they have unrivaled access to central bank lockups. This allows them to release their news and analysis of major bank statements before anyone else. They’re research and analysis has been released by the time most other providers are first receiving the initial statement. RANsquawk does have an accelerated ECB feed but Livesquawk also have accelerated feeds for BOE and FED. https://bit.ly/3dyWxny

My main disagreement with that link is it says livesquawk can be too much as it covers multiple asset classes. All wealth is valued in a currency, so all asset classes have a direct effect on currencies. Whether you make money from it or lose money from it, or remain neutral from it, its important to understand the relationship. When you do, you'll understand why if the dollar index is crashing, USDJPY is still sky rocketing. Market sentiment can be important factor when deciding to open a trade.

I always have my livesquawk running. You hear the news before anyone else. There have been times where I have capitalized on it for some large gains, like US-Iran debacle or selling GBP in 2016 when it was confirmed. Livesquawk reported it like 10 secs before markets moved, in fact livesquawk reporting it is probably what made the market move . But the key thing is its before your twitter or major news company. But its main use is just knowing when hard data/sentiment trading can release, like a Boris Johnson conference about Brexit talks that is scheduled for 10am but its not on your economic calendar, but it is scheduled, so its only unexpected to retail.
The best strategy is a profitable one.
  • #4,277
  • Oct 18, 2020 6:18am Oct 18, 2020 6:18am
Quoting tradista
{quote} Slight correctly, if you're referring to my post, it was around 56 pips (not 100)
I mean price basically settled at the end of a 100 pip move. Thats the slippage essentially because we'll all have different numbers depending on where your SL was within the the candle.
The best strategy is a profitable one.
  • #4,278
  • Oct 18, 2020 1:58pm Oct 18, 2020 1:58pm
Anran,
yes, of course they're not the same, demo and live...
I am assuming that FTMO, and maybe other brokers, have to apply some software filters to simulate live conditions...
otherwise, yes, perfect executions would be the norm in demos.
And that bid and ask would be desired to reflect live feed, as well.
I think that must be tuneable from FTMO's end...
They can probably tighten or widen spreads according to volatility or other metrics.
Otakar?
  • #4,279
  • Oct 18, 2020 5:54pm Oct 18, 2020 5:54pm
love it, servers are down again, why do they always have these issues, these are not the standards any prop firm or broker should be providing. I have an accouint with Global prime as well and no isses as they are a good broker and have a good platform.
"Anger clouds the mind. Turned inward, it is an unconquerable enemy."
  • #4,280
  • Oct 18, 2020 7:16pm Oct 18, 2020 7:16pm
Quoting AnRan
{quote} I'm not saying slippage doesn't exist. Read my post thoroughly to help you understand. When rules are implemented to prevent someone from capitalizing on slippage because "you don't get realistic execution on a DEMO" vs a live account, but when it's a loss their response is "well that's just how live execution works". And that type of slippage is huge. My live accounts were about 20 pips. But by FTMO'a own reasoning, not mine, their reasoning, it's a demo so I shouldn't really be experiencing any! Again, my bigger issue isn't the loss, it's...
Yes, they cannot have it both ways. If we can not take advantage of positive slippage due to it being a demo, no way we should have negative slippage. I had a GBP/JPY buy about 70 pips in profit, with s/l at BE, it closed at BE. I think I was just fortunate that my entry was at the bottom of the spike. The point here though is they are restricting us as demo does not reflect live, not 'true market conditions', therefore, should be no slippage whatsoever. Dead on about risk as well, simple math, lot size and stop loss, but you knew that, just correcting anybody else that doesn't get it.
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