{quote} Probably hype is over. Or unsuccessful with the challenge/verification just like me.Or just want to be silent.
This challenge has taught me some lessons, especially risk control.
Intraday only.
- #4,062
- Edited 11:10am Oct 9, 2020 10:35am | Edited 11:10am
- Joined Jul 2012 | Status: Trader | 1,880 Posts
- #4,063
- Oct 9, 2020 11:56am Oct 9, 2020 11:56am
- Joined Sep 2020 | Status: Trader | 8,702 Posts
If I don't mention SL and/or TP = longer-term setup possibly in the works!
- #4,064
- Oct 9, 2020 1:30pm Oct 9, 2020 1:30pm
- Joined Apr 2016 | Status: Conquistadores' | 1,545 Posts
- #4,065
- Oct 9, 2020 1:35pm Oct 9, 2020 1:35pm
- Joined Apr 2016 | Status: Conquistadores' | 1,545 Posts
- #4,066
- Edited 1:49pm Oct 9, 2020 1:38pm | Edited 1:49pm
- Joined Jul 2012 | Status: Trader | 1,880 Posts
- #4,067
- Edited 8:52pm Oct 9, 2020 7:51pm | Edited 8:52pm
- Joined Oct 2010 | Status: Trader | 21,482 Posts
Intraday only.
I read this in FTMO's terms and conditions. Does that mean that it is not allowed to copy trades from an IC Markets live account to a FTMO challenge account?
- #4,071
- Oct 10, 2020 3:34pm Oct 10, 2020 3:34pm
- Joined Aug 2018 | Status: Trader | 7,873 Posts
It has been a while since I read FTMO's terms and conditions and I don't feel like looking again, so I might be off on some of my assumptions. If I am wrong in my assumptions, just consider this a post that promoted FTMO aka advertisement. So, FTMO, you welcome.
I also know only one consistently profitable trader who trades for FTMO and has been for a long time and is very happy about it. I assume after months and years of being profitable, he is getting more and more funding and as a result making more money for himself. So, traders like that do exist.
Now, the point I like to make is that a trader is given X amount of capital to trade with. 100K, 200K, 300K whatever. This trader's focus is his account. All he cares is to keep the account safe and stay within the limits imposed and hitting the targets. And he does it well and gets more funding but the construct remains the same. He only trades his account and gets 70% of whatever he makes as well as other limitations that are calculated in.
FTMO's 70/30 split and their 5% rule or other constraints are scalable. So what is good for 10K is good and acceptable for a 1 billion account.
Now, what keeps FTMO from hooking up a consistently profitable trader's account to a 1 billion account? If the successful trader at some point hits the 5% loss and the account is terminated, that loss is within the acceptance range of a 1 billion account too. The investor expects it.
Meanwhile, our successful trader who has many months of great performance is happy to get his 70% return on his 100K account. So lets say he makes $7000 profit in a month on a 100K account. If FTMO hooks up his signals to a 1 billion account, that account makes 30% or $30,000,000.
So, profitable trader makes $7000 and the big investor makes $30,000,000. Someone check my math but I think that equals 0.023% commission for generating that much profit. I have no idea how much FTMO charges the investor account for making that much profit for them. Even a 50/50 split would mean $15,000,000 in FTMO's pocket.
So, FTMO has basically filtered some of the most successful brains in the trading world and is paying them peanuts for their success. Even if the sharing % changes overtime to a better split %, the ability of FTMO to scale up their own profit is still unlimited and the trader has no knowledge or input in that because FTMO knowingly has excluded the trader from anything past what happens in the account immediately managed by the trader.
It'd be like a hamster happily rolling a step drum in his cage and getting treats for the energy output that he produces to roll it and meanwhile, that rolling drum can be hooked up to a power generator the size of a dam and produce energy for a whole city. Of course that would never work like that for the hamster in real life but somehow it works in the financial world.
Oh, and FTMO really needs money from your challenges fees to survive...lol.
No, they don't. You are the one who needs that money to be not lost. That is the motivation that will keep you rolling the drum in your cage.
I also know only one consistently profitable trader who trades for FTMO and has been for a long time and is very happy about it. I assume after months and years of being profitable, he is getting more and more funding and as a result making more money for himself. So, traders like that do exist.
Now, the point I like to make is that a trader is given X amount of capital to trade with. 100K, 200K, 300K whatever. This trader's focus is his account. All he cares is to keep the account safe and stay within the limits imposed and hitting the targets. And he does it well and gets more funding but the construct remains the same. He only trades his account and gets 70% of whatever he makes as well as other limitations that are calculated in.
FTMO's 70/30 split and their 5% rule or other constraints are scalable. So what is good for 10K is good and acceptable for a 1 billion account.
Now, what keeps FTMO from hooking up a consistently profitable trader's account to a 1 billion account? If the successful trader at some point hits the 5% loss and the account is terminated, that loss is within the acceptance range of a 1 billion account too. The investor expects it.
Meanwhile, our successful trader who has many months of great performance is happy to get his 70% return on his 100K account. So lets say he makes $7000 profit in a month on a 100K account. If FTMO hooks up his signals to a 1 billion account, that account makes 30% or $30,000,000.
So, profitable trader makes $7000 and the big investor makes $30,000,000. Someone check my math but I think that equals 0.023% commission for generating that much profit. I have no idea how much FTMO charges the investor account for making that much profit for them. Even a 50/50 split would mean $15,000,000 in FTMO's pocket.
So, FTMO has basically filtered some of the most successful brains in the trading world and is paying them peanuts for their success. Even if the sharing % changes overtime to a better split %, the ability of FTMO to scale up their own profit is still unlimited and the trader has no knowledge or input in that because FTMO knowingly has excluded the trader from anything past what happens in the account immediately managed by the trader.
It'd be like a hamster happily rolling a step drum in his cage and getting treats for the energy output that he produces to roll it and meanwhile, that rolling drum can be hooked up to a power generator the size of a dam and produce energy for a whole city. Of course that would never work like that for the hamster in real life but somehow it works in the financial world.
Oh, and FTMO really needs money from your challenges fees to survive...lol.
No, they don't. You are the one who needs that money to be not lost. That is the motivation that will keep you rolling the drum in your cage.
- #4,072
- Edited Oct 11, 2020 1:13am Oct 10, 2020 9:59pm | Edited Oct 11, 2020 1:13am
- Joined Oct 2010 | Status: Trader | 21,482 Posts
Intraday only.
- #4,073
- Oct 11, 2020 12:08am Oct 11, 2020 12:08am
{quote} Your best bet is to just withdraw, pay the 25$ for a vps, put your personal account to follow the ftmo account with copy trade software. The software will base it on your personal accounts balance, so you'll see that exponential growth
It has been a while since I read FTMO's terms and conditions and I don't feel like looking again, so I might be off on some of my assumptions. If I am wrong in my assumptions, just consider this a post that promoted FTMO aka advertisement. So, FTMO, you welcome. I also know only one consistently profitable trader who trades for FTMO and has been for a long time and is very happy about it. No, they don't. You are the one who needs that money to be not lost. That is the motivation that will keep you rolling the drum in your cage.
So it would only make sense that as time passed they would allocate more capital to the live account connected to the good trader, the one who is consistent and following their rules to absorb the losses being generated by people hitting their max losses. And more often than not, even people who get to a funded account end up blowing them and don't have long term (6-18 months) ability to be profitable. But they can still walk away with a descent profit split while the new loss on their account still eats into their previous profits. Then it can be exacerbated if it happened right after the 4th month, where they got a capital raise because FTMO had allocated more money, thinking that trader was low risk oriented, but that is the month the trader loses 10%. As someone who has worked directly with investors myself, I can tell you Murphy's law has got the timing down in the finance industry!
Seriously, it's not like its an exponential graph. They also have to pay out their investors and traders REGARDLESS if they don't net that total amount. Imagine when they first started and they didn't have enough profitable traders, think about the risk they were taking then! They take the risk, they should reap the benefits. I'll take 70% of anything I'm not financially exposed to. This is business and finance, and just like any business or financial company you'll move more capital to whats performing well to help absorb whats performing poorly.
I personally think the rant is useless. If you become a funded trader, you get your initial fee back and then can trade over a quarter million dollars at no risk to yourself while taking the majority of the profits on that money with insane risk at 5% and 10%. I don't think you realize how big 5/10% risk is when it comes to managing funds. Go trade at bank of america, I have my series 57 so I know, they'll give you 1.5 million but your max TOTAL risk would be 2% and you'll be looking at something like 0.15%-0.2% risk per trade. The margins are so tight you can still end up making more money with FTMO with 1/10th the capital.
The best strategy is a profitable one.
why even bother fund someone with 100k if you can only ever loose 5k in a day and 10k ever, that's 90k sitting there doing f all. Doesn't make sense.