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  • #141
  • Sep 1, 2020 4:35am Sep 1, 2020 4:35am
Quoting tradista
Why is the max exposure set in lots and not in percentage of the account balance? Technically, a trade can have a smaller SL and allow for a larger lot size while still being well within the 1.5% risk limit.
0.5% is the best suitable for the5ers in the beginning.
  • #142
  • Sep 1, 2020 4:38am Sep 1, 2020 4:38am
Quoting tradista
Why is the max exposure set in lots and not in percentage of the account balance? Technically, a trade can have a smaller SL and allow for a larger lot size while still being well within the 1.5% risk limit.
You can always choose to use less exposure to have a wider stop loss. This question can be asked to whatever method used. We prefer giving a thumb-rule guideline easy to follow rather ask you to calculate a tick value for each different pair.
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #143
  • Sep 1, 2020 4:47am Sep 1, 2020 4:47am
Quoting The5ersTF
{quote} You can always choose to use less exposure to have a wider stop loss. This question can be asked to whatever method used. We prefer giving a thumb-rule guideline easy to follow rather ask you to calculate a tick value for each different pair.
What if i am using an EA to place orders based on %risk, auto calculating lots ?
on a postive roll...
  • #144
  • Sep 1, 2020 5:03am Sep 1, 2020 5:03am
Quoting The5ersTF
{quote} You can always choose to use less exposure to have a wider stop loss. This question can be asked to whatever method used. We prefer giving a thumb-rule guideline easy to follow rather ask you to calculate a tick value for each different pair.
Actually I was referring to the opposite, I may risk less than 1.5% per trade and still be able to have a bigger lot size trade if my SL is tighter.
  • #145
  • Sep 1, 2020 5:05am Sep 1, 2020 5:05am
Quoting tradista
{quote} Actually I was referring to the opposite, I may risk less than 1.5% per trade and still be able to have bigger a bigger lot size trade if my SL is tighter.
That's what i meant in my previous post.
on a postive roll...
  • #146
  • Sep 1, 2020 5:18am Sep 1, 2020 5:18am
Quoting Rmg
{quote} What if I am using an EA to place orders based on %risk, auto calculating lots?
I believe your EA has some settings to govern the exposure. Use proper settings that provide enough margin to not exceed the max exposure.
Within the The5ers' assets offering, pairs ending with NZD have the lowest tick value of 0.67, and the pair with the highest tick value is NZDUSD at 1.25.
Knowing that you can lower your default EA exposure by a factor of 0.8 (1.25 * 0.8 = 1.00 ) to perfectly comply with the max exposure. Do less, and you be better off in the safety zone.

If you have the code source, that would be your best option to redefine the risk parameters of your EA.
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #147
  • Sep 1, 2020 5:36am Sep 1, 2020 5:36am
Quoting tradista
{quote} Actually I was referring to the opposite, I may risk less than 1.5% per trade and still be able to have a bigger lot size trade if my SL is tighter.
Now I understand I have not followed your question completely. You are correct, this can get very aggressive position. Unfortunately, for participating in our funding program, you would behave to compromise your exposure up to the maximum allowed. 5:1 is a heavy load of pips as well, and if you would secure the risk with trailing stops you would open extra exposure to load even more.
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #148
  • Sep 1, 2020 5:46am Sep 1, 2020 5:46am
Quoting The5ersTF
{quote} I believe your EA has some settings to govern the exposure. Use proper settings that provide enough margin to not exceed the max exposure. Within the The5ers' assets offering, pairs ending with NZD have the lowest tick value of 0.67, and the pair with the highest tick value is NZDUSD at 1.25. Knowing that you can lower your default EA exposure by a factor of 0.8 (1.25 * 0.8 = 1.00 ) to perfectly comply with the max exposure. Do less, and you be better off in the safety zone. If you have the code source, that would be your best option to...
Thanks for your reply ,its Nothing fancy, MT4 marketplace free utility: PZ trade Ea
stop loss varies depending on the setup ,bigger positions but risk% is same within the parameters .
Not many can get this head around.!!.
on a postive roll...
  • #149
  • Edited 7:32am Sep 1, 2020 5:49am | Edited 7:32am
See the following screenshots.
A 9.5 pips SL on EURUSD on a 15K account, using only 1% risk (150$) would allow for a 1.57 lots trade, but you are capping the lotsize at 0.65 lots.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 31 KB

Edit: added same simulated calc for a 13K USD account. 8 pips SL allows for 1.62 lots on 1% risk (130$).
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot2.png Size: 22 KB
  • #150
  • Sep 1, 2020 6:05am Sep 1, 2020 6:05am
Quoting The5ersTF
{quote} Now I understand I have not followed your question completely. You are correct, this can get very aggressive position. Unfortunately, for participating in our funding program, you would behave to compromise your exposure up to the maximum allowed. 5:1 is a heavy load of pips as well, and if you would secure the risk with trailing stops you would open extra exposure to load even more.
Thanks, but what I am saying is that the max SL % and the lot size exposure rules are contradictory, and that's one detail that is putting me off.
I personally don't trade for max pips but for max % gains, so it doesn't matter how many pips I can get but rather how many times my risk I can make per trade. I can make 5x times my risk on a 10 pips move and barely go beyond 1.5x on a 200 pips move. That's why an optimal lot sizing, still within the parameters, is crucial for both risk and profit.
  • #151
  • Sep 1, 2020 6:18am Sep 1, 2020 6:18am
Quoting tradista
{quote} Thanks, but what I am saying is that the max SL % and the lot size exposure rules are contradictory, and that's one detail that is putting me off. I personally don't trade for max pips but for max % gains, so it doesn't matter how many pips I can get but rather how many times my risk I can make per trade. I can make 5x times my risk on a 10 pips move and barely go beyond 1.5x on a 200 pips move. That's why an optimal lot sizing, still within the parameters, is crucial for both risk and profit.
It is contradicting when you fully press these two objectives to the absolute maximum. For the majority, it is not. But to meet The5ers targets you should not be nearly that at all.
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #152
  • Sep 1, 2020 6:20am Sep 1, 2020 6:20am
Quoting Rmg
{quote} Thanks for your reply ,its Nothing fancy, MT4 marketplace free utility: PZ trade Ea stop loss varies depending on the setup ,bigger positions but risk% is same within the parameters . Not many can get this head around.!!.
If you want we can have a look at this, if you send more info to support, we can find the best setting to match the program's risk parameters.
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #153
  • Sep 1, 2020 6:28am Sep 1, 2020 6:28am
Quoting The5ersTF
{quote} If you want we can have a look at this, if you send more info to support, we can find the best setting to match the program's risk parameters.
on a postive roll...
  • #154
  • Edited 8:24am Sep 1, 2020 7:20am | Edited 8:24am
Quoting The5ersTF
{quote} It is contradicting when you fully press these two objectives to the absolute maximum. For the majority, it is not. But to meet The5ers targets you should not be nearly that at all.
I don't think I'm pressing to the maximum at all, in my previous examples I was using only 1% risk (not even 1.5%) and the lot size would still be the double of your max allowed exposure from a scalping/intraday perspective.
So what you're basically offering is a max average risk of up to 0.5% per trade to be comfortably within parameters and, as thus, to really be able to make some % gains, preference has to go for a swing trading approach based on longer holding time (and eventually adding scale in's), but then you want a 40 minimum positions taken over the course of the evaluation, which goes back to an more intraday pace. Hard to do... and a longer time needed to reach 10%, 25%.
I'm sure you'll have to let go one of those parameters at some point, to eliminate the ambiguity. If you do and go for simply the SL/risk% then I'll be interested in joining, and probably some more people, even thought the payout is a bit skewed in the beginning I can see some long-term potential.
  • #155
  • Sep 1, 2020 8:07am Sep 1, 2020 8:07am
@tradista

It is rare we encounter a case like yours. I have expressed before, our program is open to anyone who can fit our risk parameters. I think your position sizing is wise and very effective for those who can maintain high precision trading. I will definitely going to consider your remarks. Thank you for your insights.
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #156
  • Sep 1, 2020 8:25am Sep 1, 2020 8:25am
Quoting The5ersTF
@tradista It is rare we encounter a case like yours. I have expressed before, our program is open to anyone who can fit our risk parameters. I think your position sizing is wise and very effective for those who can maintain high precision trading. I will definitely going to consider your remarks. Thank you for your insights.
Thank you, I appreciate your openness.
  • #157
  • Sep 1, 2020 11:14am Sep 1, 2020 11:14am
You offer 6 evaluation plans. If approved in one of the plans, is it allowed at any time to change plan through a new evaluation?


Example:
I choose the low risk qualification program for a 40k account.
I can pass. But after a few weeks or months I want to switch to another account size and/or drawdown size.
So I can do a new evaluation process, by paying the fee obviously. Is there a problem with that?
  • #158
  • Sep 1, 2020 12:28pm Sep 1, 2020 12:28pm
Quoting The5ersTF
....
Hello.
Sorry, I use a translator for English.

Registered today. I will take the challenge calmly (which is with me and not with The5% or other traders).
I only did a 0.01 test run closed with a micro gain, but it was just a test. From tomorrow I will be 100% operational.

For the moment (a few hours) I find some very favorable points:
0) Registered early in the European morning. Got account and data in under an hour. Great.
1) I was amazed at the connection speed with the server I am connected to. Less than half of other accounts I have, both private and prop (without the use of a VPS, of course). The platform connects on the fly and I opened / closed a trade truly in a flash. Very satisfied.
2) Spread in half between private accounts and the other Prop. From how they vary, I would say that they are real and not manipulated. Still very good. I am satisfied.
3) Reasonable fees. I would have preferred the same spread and zero commissions, but hey ... I can't claim the World .

Just a doubt:
in the e-mail with the access data to MT4, there is a warning to change the master password at the first access, but the platform does not allow changes (cannot change password [Not enough rights]). It's not a problem for me. I have e-mail, computer and internet armored. Nobody can trade for me (except The5ers) so I'm calm, but I was curious.

Thanks for the moment
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
  • #159
  • Sep 1, 2020 1:37pm Sep 1, 2020 1:37pm
Quoting The5ersTF
@tradista It is rare we encounter a case like yours. I have expressed before, our program is open to anyone who can fit our risk parameters. I think your position sizing is wise and very effective for those who can maintain high precision trading. I will definitely going to consider your remarks. Thank you for your insights.
No, this not rare at all.
What you are implying is that you have not come across/are not funding any scalper traders.

I will illustrate with some numbers...

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot3.png Size: 66 KB




Funded capital $52k, max allowed DD of give and take 1% ($ 520). Max exposure 0.65 lots.

Like Tradista, I am a precision shooter.
The size of one of my live accounts is 25% of the 5-ers $ 52K funding.
As you can see in the screenshot below, taking a very moderate 0.25% risk per trade, my total exposure during the Asian session was 3 trades x 0.26 lots = 0.78 lots.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot2.png Size: 690 KB

0.78 lots exposure on an account that is only 25% of the highest 5ers initial funding amount available...
In this case, even if 3 consecutive trades hit stoploss, I'd still be within the 5ers max. allowed DD of 1%.

During the London session, I will easily up the risk to 0.50% per trade which would give me 1.30-1.35 lots exposure with 4 open trades.
i.e. risk off, I could possibly and simultaneously short EURJPY, EURUSD, GBPJPY and GBPUSD at 0.50% risk per trade...

I'd strongly suggest that you drop the max. position size exposure. You have clearly defined maximum DD: 1%.
It should be up to each trader's discretion to determine lot size. If the trader screws up, he'd simply lose his $ 550 fee.

LuXing
Wisdom begins in wonder
  • #160
  • Edited 4:17pm Sep 1, 2020 3:50pm | Edited 4:17pm
The maximum drawdown is 4%, not 1%.
By paying a fee of $550 you get an evaluation with a capital of $ 13,000 and not $52,000
$520 (Max DD) of $13,000 = 4%
By making a profit of $910 (6% of 13,000) you qualify for a $52,000 account.

In the $52,000 account your maximum drawdown will be $2,080 (4%) and there will be no more goal profit.
And you can open up to 2.60 lots.

---------

A maximum exposure by number of lots for all pairs does not work in the same way as a 5:1 exposure

This gives an advantage in pairs with GBPxxx and EURxxx. For in an account with capital of 10,000 and leverage of 5:1 it would be possible to open approximately 0.42 lots in EURxxx pairs and 0.37 lots in GBPxxx pairs.

And it gives a disadvantage in pairs of AUDxxx, NZDxxx, CADCHF and CADJPY. For in an account with capital of 10,000 and leverage of 5:1 it would be possible to open approximately 0.68 lots in AUDxxx pairs and 0.74 lots in NZDxxx pairs.

*Calculations based on an FxPro broker account. With 10,000 capital and 5:1 leverage.
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