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The5ers - Trading & Growth Program

  • #81
  • Aug 23, 2020 5:53am Aug 23, 2020 5:53am
Quoting The5ersTF
{quote} We usually send notifications on email before we take any action. As we know sometimes violation can happen by innocence. However, if violations continue and put the fund at risk, we may disqualify the account. However, we always attempt to communicate first. So nothing will come by surprise. That applies for evaluation and for PM traders with no difference. Once a trader becomes a PM, he always has the opportunity to rejoin with PM terms at any level of choice. It has a commitment cost for the trader, which is being discussed confidentially....
Impressive, well maintained partnership program and flexibility. Do you allow your PMs to provide services outside of your firm? ie. A trader is your PM and is also managing other funds with contract. Or is this allowed as long as the trader doesn't violate the trading rules?
adapt or be killed
  • #82
  • Aug 23, 2020 6:00am Aug 23, 2020 6:00am
Quoting slappymove
{quote} Impressive, well maintained partnership program and flexibility. Do you allow your PMs to provide services outside of your firm? ie. A trader is your PM and is also managing other funds with contract. Or is this allowed as long as the trader doesn't violate the trading rules?
We never ask for exclusivity. You can do whatever you wish. trade with any other services, brokers, provide your own services. We care for our traders to be happy and comfortable with the relationship they have with The5ers.
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #83
  • Aug 23, 2020 6:07am Aug 23, 2020 6:07am
Quoting The5ersTF
{quote} We never ask for exclusivity. You can do whatever you wish. trade with any other services, brokers, provide your own services. We care for our traders to be happy and comfortable with the relationship they have with The5ers.
Thanks! Looking forward in applying to your program. Goodluck!
adapt or be killed
  • #84
  • Aug 23, 2020 11:53am Aug 23, 2020 11:53am
How should funded traders handle frequent losses, Rob Booker Interviewing Gil Ben-Hur from The5%ers.

In this video, Gil Ben Hur talks about how he supported a funded trader who went through a bad period.

Enjoy!
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #85
  • Aug 24, 2020 12:36pm Aug 24, 2020 12:36pm
How Making Sure Your Surroundings And Trading Routine Set You Up For Success.

In our previous article in this series, we talked quite a bit about how a lot of Forex traders start trading, their reasons for doing so and even got into how acknowledging what kind of trader you are can greatly contribute to your overall success, those are all important topics and we may very well revisit them from various perspectives at a later date but we want to make sure that this series also provides you with some hands-on, actual benefits, things you can apply to your everyday trading routine and will help you in some way.

To that end, today we want to focus on something that most traders tend to take for granted and not pay much attention to – their work environment and how it can be essential to your success as a trader.

Read more
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  • #86
  • Aug 25, 2020 9:21am Aug 25, 2020 9:21am
Forex Trading Room August 25, 2020

Here's today's recording Forex Trading Room Session.

In today's trading room we gave a forecast for this week on EUR, GBP, and NZD.
We took some scalps on EUR/USD, and also had some losses on the GBP, but there is a lot to be learned from losing trades!

Enjoy!
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #87
  • Aug 25, 2020 9:18pm Aug 25, 2020 9:18pm
Hi.

Is my understanding correct that ALL indicators are allowed?

If so, I'm wondering why the currency strength indi (the Giraia version, in particular) is not working on the platform.

Can you tell me how I can remedy this since it's one of my favorite tools?

Thanks!
Amor Fati--F. Nietzsche
  • #88
  • Edited 1:23am Aug 26, 2020 12:50am | Edited 1:23am
Hi,
I know this doesn't affect everyone, but I wanted to tell 5%ers why I personally didn't join their program.

I use to work at two private trading institutions before I went and managed funds on my own, but I got very tired of dealing with investors. So I became interested in prop firms and your firm was mentioned to me by a friend because I didn't like the idea of trading on a demo like many of the other prop firms.

The risk on 5%ers is VERY low. Thats the first thing that catches your eye. I think 4% is a bit steep, the number itself is off putting as well, but its fine.

5%ers were in my top 3, but I ended up not going for the verification because of the max exposure. While I agree it helps get rid of immature traders, I think it also limits good traders too much. And I'd like to give you an example. You all seem very professional so I'm sure you'll understand what I'm saying.

A few hours ago I opened a trade on USDCHF, Long, 0.90809, target is about 62 pips, SL is about 30 pips. I focus on areas of supply and demand, not a set pip amount for all trades, so putting it under that anchor, which is about 30 pips. I usually risk 1% per trade. Lets say we're using the $52,000 funded account.

52,000 x 0.01= $520....$520/300 = 1.73 lots for a risk of 1%. Since the accounts max risk is 4%, lets cut this in half. So it's 0.87 lots for 0.5% (0.005) risk.

Here's the problem, if I had more opportunities on other charts, I couldn't even open 3 trades because of your max exposure. Even though this trade is only risking 0.5% and your criteria allow for 1.5% risk per trade. I could not even open THREE trades to equal 1.5% total risk because your exposure is so tight.

For me, this is a big deal. We all know we can wait a few hours with no trades and then the market sets up, and we are spoiled for choice. Last week M, T, W, Th, I had no solid set ups, didn't open a single trade. Then Friday I had a bunch of set ups and made 7.5% on the day with 3 trades. One was 1:3 RR, another 1:2.5 RR, and a 1:2 RR at 1% risk each. Halve it for 5%ers lower max risk and its still 3.75% one day gain. Often times, winners and losers come in batches. But it could never be done because your max exposure would've halted three great sets up that only had a total max risk of 1.5%.

I saw you wrote to someone else that they can wait until the trade is BE to open up the margin, but if I have to wait for one pair to move enough so that I can bring in my SL without fear of getting stopped out too early, the other pair has most likely moved as well. The risk is now higher on this second pair because the risk reward ratio is distorted.

Now I know that max exposure is very important, mainly because you allow positions to be held over the weekend and you need to protect against huge gaps or a potential weekend black swan event. But, if ever in the future you allow an option to not hold trades over the weekend in exchange for removing the max exposure, I would probably join 5%ers.

-AnRan
The best strategy is a profitable one.
  • #89
  • Aug 26, 2020 2:30am Aug 26, 2020 2:30am
Quoting doji
Hi. Is my understanding correct that ALL indicators are allowed? If so, I'm wondering why the currency strength indi (the Giraia version, in particular) is not working on the platform. Can you tell me how I can remedy this since it's one of my favorite tools? Thanks!
Hello Doji

We cannot really support custom indicators, however, as far as I am familiar with current strength indicators, I can think of two reasons

  1. The pair extension. The pairs extensions we currently use have five dots, or .x (depends on which server you are at currently) Make sure your CS indi can support pairs extensions then apply the proper settings.
  2. Load historical data for other pairs. CSI uses all pairs to calculate each separate currency. To resolve this issue, open each platform and click each timeframe you commonly are using. That will automatically load enough data to allow the Currency Strenght indicator to perform as expected.

If any of these solutions not work, you can download the Currency Strenght Indicator here, that we use with our MT4 feed and extensions.



these should use historical data from various pairs that exi

Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 The5ers.com_Currency_Strenght_Indicator.ex4   41 KB | 305 downloads
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  • #90
  • Aug 26, 2020 4:24am Aug 26, 2020 4:24am
Quoting AnRan
Hi, I know this doesn't affect everyone, but I wanted to tell 5%ers why I personally didn't join their program.
Hello AnRan. First, thank you for your honest and respectful review.
I think what people should learn for your view on The5ers program, is that everyone should and must learn the guidelines and decide if the program can be a good fit for their individual style and goals.

You seem a professional trader, and I believe that every program you choose to be at is blessed.

Quote
The risk on 5%ers is VERY low. That's the first thing that catches your eye. I think 4% is a bit steep, the number itself is off-putting as well, but it's fine.
4% dd seems low, however, the reward side is as low - at only 6%. The percent is just a percent. I'd like to suggest another view of you. Considering you would start with a 13K account at the evaluation, once you make the 6% target you instantly get a 52K account. That is X4 times the account size. So now, think of the alternative effort you must invest to create a X4 time account size. (remember our evaluation is on alive money account - with profit split). What I am aiming at, is to look at the reward while keeping a low risk trading mentality.

I'd like to look at the bigger picture; thinking of the outcome of my whole trading activity, rather than just current account P&L. At X4 times account size from evaluation to PM stage, and X2 times account size at 10% milestones after.

So comparing the alternatives, cutting risk to as low as possible (0.5% or 0.25% is my way) for the effort of bringing your account size from 13K to 52K, can be beneficial for some.

Let's take the 10% milestone and compare it with the alternatives. Say your account is 100K, your goal is 110K for managing a 200K account.
With making the 10% that is 10 times the reward (but only after you made the cut) with 4% dd. So it is 4% dd to 10% target. While in the alternative account, will need to go 40%dd for making 100% profit.

I always say about our plan - that you don't have to rush, to overexpose or over-risk; while you can take low-risk trades and be rewarded 10 times the account size.

Quote
5%ers were in my top 3, but I ended up not going for the verification because of the max exposure. While I agree it helps get rid of immature traders, I think it also limits good traders too much. And I'd like to give you an example. You all seem very professional so I'm sure you'll understand what I'm saying.

The exposure limitation is something we are very proud of. We are constantly receiving traders review that telling us that our risk management had made them better traders. Due to the poor success rate in trading, adopting strict risk management is crucial for maintaining a long-run success. I will share with you a secrete, by viewing thousands of traders portfolios; The absolute majority of traders using the maximum exposure we enforce (and it is only 5:1) are blowing their accounts. and fast!

I am not saying it is not possible, but the majority won't make it too long trading with high leverage - that is a fact proved by reality. This is why we preach for low risk, defense-first trading attitude, and then, rewarding high for those who fit such attitude.

Quote
I saw you wrote to someone else that they can wait until the trade is BE to open up the margin, but if I have to wait for one pair to move enough so that I can bring in my SL without fear of getting stopped out too early, the other pair has most likely moved as well. The risk is now higher on this second pair because the risk-reward ratio is distorted.

Exactly! We will give more leverage once trades are in the profit zone. Yes, this is pure agenda of ours. To encourage trades to become risk-free, hold runners as long as it needed, and have more space to take new trades (or add on for runners) while their trades going for maturity.

We share different views on this, I believe we represent two valid approaches. I totally respect yours. You have your own solid refined trading way - and so your specifications are precise, and as I said before, it is a must that your activity will receive the best fit environment.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #91
  • Aug 26, 2020 6:16am Aug 26, 2020 6:16am
Thanks for the reply.

It's odd but the other custom indis I've downloaded work...except for the Giraia CS one. I've just gotten so accustomed to using the indi, I wish there was a way to keep using it for my evaluation.

Will have to do a work-around, then.
Amor Fati--F. Nietzsche
  • #92
  • Aug 26, 2020 6:51am Aug 26, 2020 6:51am
Quoting doji
Thanks for the reply. It's odd but the other custom indis I've downloaded work...except for the Giraia CS one. I've just gotten so accustomed to using the indi, I wish there was a way to keep using it for my evaluation. Will have to do a work-around, then.
Are you trading with MT4? Giraia might not work due to the symbol names containing a prefix/suffix.
  • #93
  • Aug 26, 2020 6:55am Aug 26, 2020 6:55am
@Doji

Please contact us via support email, we can set up a screen sharing session to see if we can make it work for you.
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #94
  • Aug 26, 2020 8:11am Aug 26, 2020 8:11am
Your website should be cleaner, shorter, more direct, more objective. There is too much text. A first visit will leave many people confused and bored as I was.
  • #95
  • Aug 26, 2020 8:24am Aug 26, 2020 8:24am
Quoting Nathan.Fx
Your website should be cleaner, shorter, more direct, more objective. There is too much text. A first visit will leave many people confused and bored as I was.
Hey @Nathan.Fx
Thanks for the feedback. Right now we are working on it to make it cleaner and friendlier
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #96
  • Aug 26, 2020 11:07am Aug 26, 2020 11:07am
The Path from Empty Vessel to Expert Trader

Some believe that if you invest 10,000 hours into a new skill, you are sure to become an expert in that field. By this, I mean entirely investing your time and energy into working 8 hours a day, five days a week, for three years. That is what makes us skilled at what we do. That can be either an intimidating thought for some or inspiring for others.

Become an expert trader is an exhilarating skill to choose from, but it is not an easy one. Many traders struggle through a tedious and up- and -down journey. Even those who have built their solid foundation, still find it difficult at times.
Read more
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #97
  • Aug 26, 2020 5:11pm Aug 26, 2020 5:11pm
OMG, at last stage, with 1.2million, if we do just make average of 4% per month, we can earn about 25k per month (after profit split). Who can believe this "salary" in such crappy world. I haven't even seen 300$ together in my life lol. I should have a taste of it. See you later after couple of months, I'm currently on my training process .
  • #98
  • Aug 26, 2020 7:05pm Aug 26, 2020 7:05pm
Apparently their funding program is better than FTMO and BluFX.
However FTMO is much more popular than you. Their topic is over 150 pages here on FF and on YouTube there are many videos of them with thousands of views.
I only needed a few minutes on the FTMO and BluFX website to understand the rules and objectives of their programs.
However I spent several hours on your website and I am still confused and full of doubts. There is an excess of unnecessary text and links to pages.
This makes people give up and go to an easier and simpler place or they take up the time of your support team with questions.
  • #99
  • Aug 26, 2020 11:05pm Aug 26, 2020 11:05pm
Quoting The5ersTF
{quote} Hello AnRan. First, thank you for your honest and respectful review. I think what people should learn for your view on The5ers program, is that everyone should and must learn the guidelines and decide if the program can be a good fit for their individual style and goals. You seem a professional trader, and I believe that every program you choose to be at is blessed.
That's very kind of you to say. Thank you. And yes, I agree that people need to make sure the guidelines work for their style of trading.

Quoting The5ersTF
{quote}4% dd seems low, however, the reward side is as low - at only 6%. The percent is just a percent. I'd like to suggest another view of you. Considering you would start with a 13K account at the evaluation, once you make the 6% target you instantly get a 52K account. That is X4 times the account size. So now, think of the alternative effort you must invest to create a X4 time account size. (remember our evaluation is on alive money account - with profit split). What I am aiming at, is to look at the reward while keeping a low risk trading mentality....
I had a smile on my face while I was reading this because it is exactly how I would have responded to myself. Obviously, if 0.50% gives you a restriction, well use 0.25%! haha. Some deja vu there . For me, its also partly psychological. I failed my first FTMO challenge, NOT because I hit the max allowable risk, but because I didn't reach the 10% milestone. I found that just the idea of it being a challenge, that alone had a small impact on my trading. The second challenge then became easy cause I had already failed the first one. That pressure was gone. I think that 5:1 margin would potentially have the same psychological effect for me. Having it be so tight could weigh on my decision making.

I totally understand keeping forward with a low risk mentality, and ultimately I think the 4% isn't that bad even as a PM. Truth be it, it did slip my mind that the target was only 6%, and I had no idea the evaluation was also split. It's just that I feel the exposure limits the upside even while maintaining a very low risk profile.

Quoting The5ersTF
{quote}The exposure limitation is something we are very proud of. We are constantly receiving traders review that telling us that our risk management had made them better traders. Due to the poor success rate in trading, adopting strict risk management is crucial for maintaining a long-run success. I will share with you a secrete, by viewing thousands of traders portfolios; The absolute majority of traders using the maximum exposure we enforce (and it is only 5:1) are blowing their accounts. and fast! I am not saying it is not possible, but the...
I believe you 100%. Most people have no idea what size positions they should be opening. Some think they do, but once you ask them to scale it, they are lost for words. And I believe the risk rules help traders become better, but I don't think the exposure is the reason why. Even with the exposure you said so many are reaching that 4%, so they are wiping regardless, albeit slower. Many of these other popular prop firms have very similar reviews, that the max % loss forced them to trade better, be less emotional, more rational. Take better risk. To me, 5:1 is overkill, it's a bit like babysitting. Mainly because you aren't just looking for good traders, but are also partially educational and trying to cultivate those good traders. Since 95% are failing, 5%ers can not only be a place that provides capital, but where they can learn and everyone builds long term, successful relationships. Very different than the traditional model, and a positive change.

Quoting The5ersTF
{quote}Exactly! We will give more leverage once trades are in the profit zone. Yes, this is pure agenda of ours. To encourage trades to become risk-free, hold runners as long as it needed, and have more space to take new trades (or add on for runners) while their trades going for maturity. We share different views on this, I believe we represent two valid approaches.
Yeah, I agree with this. It's just two different approaches. When I watched your video, it reminded me of my scalping days trading 3sec charts on futures. And 0.50% risk on those scalps can be high. So you further reduce the risk but pump out a lot more trades. So it works for you.

Happy pipping
-AnRan
The best strategy is a profitable one.
  • #100
  • Aug 26, 2020 11:09pm Aug 26, 2020 11:09pm
Though it didn't really bother me, now that someone has pointed it out, I have to agree that your website content (which does give out very useful info for traders) needs good editing for conciseness and more clarity.

And while I appreciate the effort as well as the intent behind them, I can also see how those lengthy chunks of text might be off-putting for people with short attention spans--that is, most everybody these days.
Amor Fati--F. Nietzsche
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