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  • #2,761
  • Aug 15, 2020 3:07pm Aug 15, 2020 3:07pm
Quoting zondaforex
Lmao so many sad people who don't like having their bubble burst, Spend the time doing the math, it's not that difficult. You have to day-trade and make a 100% return in 22 days and than a 50% return in 44 days. Good luck with that, they have openly said 95% of people fail. Don't spend your life with fake prop firms casinos who want you to fail.
It all makes sense now. If you go to the only thread created by this guy, he's an IB for multiple brokers. I get it now, why the negative comments regarding prop firms. It is direct competition to your business. Do us a favor....go away.

BTW, your math makes no sense at all, it is not make 100% in 22 days. It is make 10% without more than 10% drawdown. You are completely disregarding the buying power of 100K vs 10K.
  • #2,762
  • Aug 15, 2020 3:16pm Aug 15, 2020 3:16pm
Quoting zondaforex
Lmao so many sad people who don't like having their bubble burst, Spend the time doing the math, it's not that difficult. You have to day-trade and make a 100% return in 22 days and than a 50% return in 44 days. Good luck with that, they have openly said 95% of people fail. Don't spend your life with fake prop firms casinos who want you to fail.
Where are you getting a 100% return from? The exact figures are; make 10% without reaching a 10% drawdown. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Lmao.

And btw most people fail trading in general and blow their accounts so why would ftmo be any different?

No one said it was easy to make 10% risking less than 10% but it's the same as trying to do it with your own money.

I really don't understand what point you are trying to make here.
  • #2,763
  • Aug 15, 2020 3:38pm Aug 15, 2020 3:38pm
it depends how you look at it... it's semantics/statistics.

In one framing of it, traders are challenged to yes, double their money in 22 days, because effectively they only have 10,000 of their nominal 100,000 available, due to the loss limit. And they are shooting for 10,000 gain. So, yes, 100% gain, or double your (available) money...
  • #2,764
  • Edited 4:19pm Aug 15, 2020 4:06pm | Edited 4:19pm
Quoting doyathink
it depends how you look at it... it's semantics/statistics. In one framing of it, traders are challenged to yes, double their money in 22 days, because effectively they only have 10,000 of their nominal 100,000 available, due to the loss limit. And they are shooting for 10,000 gain. So, yes, 100% gain, or double your (available) money...
You are wrong. You have 100k since you can use lot sizes for that balance ( leveraged trading ) but your loss limit is a fraction of that balance ( 10% ). Some people call this limit MM. You can't trade 10 lots with 10k account if you don't use very high leverage
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #2,765
  • Aug 15, 2020 4:12pm Aug 15, 2020 4:12pm
Quoting doyathink
it depends how you look at it... it's semantics/statistics. In one framing of it, traders are challenged to yes, double their money in 22 days, because effectively they only have 10,000 of their nominal 100,000 available, due to the loss limit. And they are shooting for 10,000 gain. So, yes, 100% gain, or double your (available) money...
So, if you had 100k of your own funds you would be comfortable with a higher than 10% drawdown?

Making 10% risking less than 10% is not doubling your money. Ffs you guys are slow.

Based on your logic I can go to an investor and say "hey look I doubled my money" and show them my balance of 110k after starting with 100k. BUt I OnLY rISked 10% SO tHaT mEAns iTS double.

Lmao....
  • #2,766
  • Aug 15, 2020 4:41pm Aug 15, 2020 4:41pm
I'm just pointing out there is a statistical fact.

It's like in one year there's 2 murders, and the next year there's 4 murders. That's a doubling in the annual murders, or 100%increase in numbers. It doesn't matter if there's a population of 10 or 100 or 1,000,000.

The annual murder rate is very different, though. if 2 in 10 people are murdered, that's a 20% rate. If 2 in 100 that's a 2% rate. Etc...

It's just statistics/semantics/point of view.
  • #2,767
  • Aug 15, 2020 5:31pm Aug 15, 2020 5:31pm
Quoting doyathink
I'm just pointing out there is a statistical fact. It's like in one year there's 2 murders, and the next year there's 4 murders. That's a doubling in the annual murders, or 100%increase in numbers. It doesn't matter if there's a population of 10 or 100 or 1,000,000. The annual murder rate is very different, though. if 2 in 10 people are murdered, that's a 20% rate. If 2 in 100 that's a 2% rate. Etc... It's just statistics/semantics/point of view.
You realize that's a horrible comparison right?
That comparison to trading would be like me saying I made 5% last year and 10% this year, so therefore I made double what I made last year...

Saying that making 10% profit on 100k while risking less than 10% is "almost impossible because it's like doubling your money" shows lack of understanding of how trading forex works, simple as that.

Technically to pass the challenge in 22 days you need to make an average of less than 0.5% per trading day.

Ftmo allows you to risk up to 5% per day to achieve this. If you trade with proper risk management and have a strategy with an edge this goal is not hard to achieve at all.

The problem is that most people don't know how to trade, saying ftmo is rigged in their favor is like saying the forex market in general is rigged.
  • #2,768
  • Aug 15, 2020 6:08pm Aug 15, 2020 6:08pm
I don't have an issue with FTMO and their requirements... they are fair enough, and achievable, if challenging. It wasn't me who said it's almost impossible.

I'm just talking statistics and how these things can be viewed. I understand your point of view and FTMO... you're not wrong. But neither is the guy who originally presented the other perspective. They are both correct, and both incomplete. If you can hold both in your mind you'll have a fuller understanding.

I like FTMO... did the free trial no problem, 6 days to pass. Am doing my second challenge at the moment...
  • #2,769
  • Aug 15, 2020 7:03pm Aug 15, 2020 7:03pm
Quoting doyathink
I don't have an issue with FTMO and their requirements... they are fair enough, and achievable, if challenging. It wasn't me who said it's almost impossible. I'm just talking statistics and how these things can be viewed. I understand your point of view and FTMO... you're not wrong. But neither is the guy who originally presented the other perspective. They are both correct, and both incomplete. If you can hold both in your mind you'll have a fuller understanding. I like FTMO... did the free trial no problem, 6 days to pass. Am doing my second challenge...
I understand what you are trying to say, and I know that you are not the one who said it was impossible, but this is not a matter of perception or debate tbh.

There is only one way to interperate these numbers, the right way and the wrong way.

If ftmo had given a goal of 100k in 22 days risking the entire account, that would be doubling the account. The fact that we only are able to risk 10% is irrelevant since we still are able to utilize the full buying power of 100k that is available to us. I do not understand why this is that hard to comprehend, there is no two ways to look at it it is not a matter of opinion lol....
  • #2,770
  • Aug 15, 2020 7:04pm Aug 15, 2020 7:04pm
But anyways, it doesn't seem like you are here to be a downer pessimist like some of the others who commented before you, I wish you good luck in your challenge and continued success with ftmo.
  • #2,771
  • Aug 15, 2020 10:37pm Aug 15, 2020 10:37pm
good luck to you in your trading, too. Cheers.
  • #2,772
  • Edited Aug 17, 2020 12:05am Aug 16, 2020 12:06am | Edited Aug 17, 2020 12:05am
Quoting TraderOtakar
...Hi again , 1. So at present FTMO has two liquidity sources - LMAX and Purple Trading. It is important to understand the difference between a broker and a liquidity provider. Broker is a company, which holds a license from a regulator and can open live accounts to its clients. Brokers also own/rent platform licenses. LP is a company, which brings you all the symbols and facilitates trading. Some really big brokers are also LPs, but the majority of LPS are independent companies. Brokers can have the same LP, so their...
Quoting Phylo
{quote} thanks for comments - if any not clear - the term 'broker-liquidity sources', for brevity, implies either as applicable. ....
Thank you for clarifications.

The distinction between LMAX as liquidity provider and Purple Trader as broker, as above quote, is taken for granted as well known and established - if not, should not babypips.com be the venue of attention ? However, it is understood that opportunity to reinforce definition and distinction is always beneficial.

Where confusion arose is this - Our FTMO platform will soon switch to using multiple liquidity providers,

Previously the FTMO platform was associated as FTMO-LMAX (liquidity provider).

hence - With regards LMAX, I can find no LMAX recent news announcement of added liquidity on either LeapRate or Finance Magnates - but, of course, I could have missed.

The considered implication being - if LMAX was to acquire additional external liquidity in addition to Goldman Sachs that would indeed be direct additional liquidity accessible from a single composite source.

But additional FTMO comments also appeared to suggest otherwise - and as confirmed by FTMO - > We will be adding another company to provide liquidity. It has nothing to do with LMAX.

So in effect although liquidity is to be added it is a divisional addition.
Divisional in the sense that FTMO clients will have to choose to trade from one of three separate (divided) liquidity sources -> LMAX liquidity or Purple Trading liquidity* or the TBA liquidity.

So while it appreciated that any additional liquidity is beneficial the above merely establishes definition.

* and yes, we know Purple Trading is a broker. however, from the perspective of traders trading through Purple Trading that is the liquidity available for traders' executions. not LMAX liquidity. not the TBA liquidity. only Purple Trading liquidity.

comment: with regards FX majors and indexes the PT demo does not indicate PT as a cost effective option

Please note: The above and content of my original post are intended to establish impersonal, objective and utilizable distinctive clarifications - there is no anger or presumptive complaint that proposes to know better how to organize FTMO operational structures.

Unless additional clarity is deemed constructive no further FTMO comment is sought.

Quoting TraderOtakar
.... Purple Trading is a different broker and we do not know, which company is their LP.
Hi again
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TSLA: 30-Dec-22 123.18 // 16-Jun-23 260.54 **111.51%**
  • #2,773
  • Edited 4:04am Aug 16, 2020 12:47am | Edited 4:04am
Quoting Phylo
So in effect although liquidity is to be added it is a divisional addition.
Divisional in the sense that FTMO clients will have to choose to trade from one of three separate (divided) liquidity sources -> LMAX liquidity OR Purple Trading liquidity* OR the TBA liquidity.
To FTMO:

- The Broker Review portal has been removed --- this does not require technical spelling out, so in brevity

  1. currently, there appears to be no FTMO-on-site means of comparing instrument costs.
  2. currently, how do potential clients assess and compare instrument costs between LMAX and Purple Trading ?
  3. downloading an independent Purple Trading Demo does not appear ideal as it is not known what, if any, costs agreements exist between FTMO and Purple Trading.
  4. an additional TBA liquidity source adds additional comparisons.
  5. it is postulated that FTMO has plans to address the above.
  6. Can FTMO kindly comment.

TSLA: 30-Dec-22 123.18 // 16-Jun-23 260.54 **111.51%**
  • #2,774
  • Aug 16, 2020 1:08am Aug 16, 2020 1:08am
Quoting Rmg
Why don't you detectives take a break from dissecting FTMO buiseness model, if you can't do it everything is shit don't it. Let people decide for themselves. Sick and tired of this know it all whiners.
Very well said. I’ve been observing quietly on the sidelines.

Otakar & his team have done a wonderful job keeping answers professional and transparent as possible. As a community, we need to respect a company’s ability to maintain proprietary intellectual property. If a company is not as transparent as a consumer would like, the consumer has the freedom of choice to leave/not enroll/not follow.

Looking to start a live Myfxbook so newer traders can find hope in all this minutia. Even with all the “issues” mentioned here, there are strategies that still work superbly. Simply need to spend the appropriate amount of time doing what the crowd is unwilling to do.... While the self-proclaimed investigators have been busy working overtime, FTMO actual live traders been preparing the upcoming market moves this week (yes, big moves coming).

Here is an idea. Anyone can purchase the right to post negatively for the price of sharing their most current myfxbook

A great Livermore quote to reflect upon:

“The semi-sucker had read books about trading – usually written by yet higher grade suckers – but he did not realize that reading books was not the same as trading experience. This type of sucker could quote all sorts of wise sayings about the operations of the stock market. He did not lose money as quickly as the beginning sucker because he had learned some of the most rudimentary trading rules.”
~Jesse Livermore
  • #2,775
  • Aug 16, 2020 4:04am Aug 16, 2020 4:04am
Quoting Swing4Fence
{quote} Very well said. I’ve been observing quietly on the sidelines. Otakar & his team have done a wonderful job keeping answers professional and transparent as possible. As a community, we need to respect a company’s ability to maintain proprietary intellectual property. If a company is not as transparent as a consumer would like, the consumer has the freedom of choice to leave/not enroll/not follow. Looking to start a live Myfxbook so newer traders can find hope in all this minutia. Even with all the “issues” mentioned here, there are strategies...

That is a nice quote Swing4Fence

You were one of the guys we were expecting to go through all the stages, get to funding and show us the money!
  • #2,776
  • Aug 16, 2020 5:01am Aug 16, 2020 5:01am
Come on guys, don't over-complicate things. Most of FTMO's rules are pretty straight-forward. Chill.

I believe it's better to find some other way to get funded if:
1. Your strategy is not a good fit with their rules
2. You don't want to change your strategy because it's been working for you for a long period of time now.

Also, if you don't feel comfortable to risk your $$$ for the challenge, then that means you are risking a huge portion of your funds. Risk maybe less than 2% of your net worth, it might calm your mind. Or probably you are disregarding the fact that if you don't violate the rules and have at least a profit of 0.01 by the end of the challenge/verification, then you'll get another try "FOR FREE".

The minimum risk here is ~$640 per 100k. It's like saying taking a trade with risk:reward 1:150 which you may need to hold for ~2months. After your first profitable month, the risk is 0 on the trader's side. I personally solved my struggles by a) reducing the lot size I trade and b) changing my trading approach - which I did not do for a long period of time because I'm used to having ~20% drawdown. I still use the same strategy I'm using for more than 2 years now - it's just that now it's a better version more suited for me.

You can also trade your own live account while trading for the challenge - so I don't see any "wasting" of time here, it's an investment, you are "investing" your "time + money" so you'll get favorable returns (funds).

Green pips to everyone and enjoy the rest of the week!
adapt or be killed
  • #2,777
  • Edited 10:11am Aug 16, 2020 6:38am | Edited 10:11am
Quoting Mtinifx
{quote} That is a nice quote Swing4Fence You were one of the guys we were expecting to go through all the stages, get to funding and show us the money!
Confirmed. It is legitimate.
Contract, Payout, Scaling Plan.
After seeing behind the curtain (funded as FTMO trader) I’m a believer in FTMO, it’s the only reason I’m sticking up for them.

Up to this point, they have done everything as promised. The noise appears to be coming from non-FTMO traders, even after the continual direct engagement from FTMO leadership with us here on the thread (which they don’t need to do, as their business reputation sells itself). I’ve really enjoyed the interactions here, and eachother supporting one another, and want to continue to do so.

I’ll continue with transparency, and continue to support FTMO until they have given a reason not to do so. All has been great up to this point.
  • #2,778
  • Aug 17, 2020 6:39am Aug 17, 2020 6:39am
Quoting TraderOtakar
Hi Traders, I hope everyone is healthy and doing well. I’m quite happy to say that we have eliminated the backlog of the queries and our processing times returned to normal. Mondays are still quite busy for us so the processing times on Mondays can be a little longer. I was happy to see that some of you even deleted some negative comments after we provided our answers last time. Since Tomasīs last post, there were several posts regarding the accusation that we are manipulating spreads, specifically on CADJPY.lmax, stating that Sierra has around...
Thanks for the explanation. Seems spread on CADJPY improved after your message. Now spread there is at average .8. However, spreads on other pairs is still not very good. Please find a better liquidity provider. Take a look at spreads of ICMarkets and Pepperstone, they are great. Take a look at this example why spread is important. This chart is from Admiral Market but spread is similar to FTMO Platform. This one got stopped out due to spread. On my live ICMarkets and Pepperstone account this one shouldn't have been stopped out yet. Once spread improves, and you find a new liquidity provider. Maybe I'll think about FTMO again. This might even attract more challengers to your business. Hopefully.
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  • #2,779
  • Edited 10:40am Aug 17, 2020 10:10am | Edited 10:40am
Dear guys,

Have gone thro the objectives for funded trader.

Few questions :

I read somewhere... even if capital is 10k, the conditions are tough which makes it real capital is like 2k..

I do not know what it means.

As long as leverage is 1 : 100, why the capital should look like 2k ?

And any lot size restrictions while trading? Any restriction with respect to Time to keep the trade open?

I mean scalping trading allowed ?

And I guess minimum 10 days to be traded even if one achieves the profit target in 5 days ?

Would be grateful if some one here clarify.

Thanks.
Intraday only.
  • #2,780
  • Aug 17, 2020 11:00am Aug 17, 2020 11:00am
"conditions are tough" : you can lose up to 1,000 in equity (open and closed trades) of your 10,000. So it's like working with 1,000, not 10,000. This is so you are not trading in a risky manner with other people's money.

No lot limitations, as long as you don't break any conditions.

If you achieve it early, you can just open and close tiny trades till the 10 days are done.

Scalping is fine. No time requirements on trades in the qualification.

Watch the spreads at rollover and weekends... if you have large positions they can put your equity over the max drawdown limit, even if you are hedged.
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