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FTMO - For serious traders

  • #2,701
  • Aug 12, 2020 1:20am Aug 12, 2020 1:20am
The proof of the pudding - at least someone is getting some money back from one of these damn prop firms:


https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...2#post13109612
  • #2,702
  • Aug 12, 2020 1:49am Aug 12, 2020 1:49am
Quoting AnRan
{quote} I'm sorry but that is complete BS. Your broker can B book you and your LP has nothing to do with it. And many brokers can B-book without manipulating. They don't need to manipulate cause retail failure is high enough all on its own.
Is English your first language? You have not comprehended what I wrote in my post.


Quote
If you are talking about a SWAP fee, everybody has a swap fee cause there is a swap market, lol.

Nonsensical! If positions are not rolled in the market there is no SWAP. If a broker has B-booked you and is charging you a swap fee at the same time it is theft.
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  • #2,703
  • Aug 12, 2020 2:06am Aug 12, 2020 2:06am
Quoting Le.Metier
{quote} Is English your first language? You have not comprehended what I wrote in my post. {quote} Nonsensical! If positions are not rolled in the market there is no SWAP. If a broker has B-booked you and is charging you a swap fee at the same time it is theft. {image}
You said "a low rollover is only provided to the trader when the trader is b-booked"

That is not true. A broker can internalize all of the orders, and still charge a 15$ swap to make it look like your orders are being placed on a live market. In fact, most don't change the specification settings and leave it the same as the liquidity provider. And, swaps can be changed in MT4 admin, so if the LP was charging, lets say 2$, the broker can make it 4 or 5 and make money on it too. That is all changeable in MT4 admin. If Darwinex is charging high swaps, its most likely they are using major banks instead of private LP's.

I'm not arguing how ethical it is to charge someone swap when its just being b-booked. I'm just saying a low or high swap cost has nothing to do with actually being A or B booked. That paragraph is just good marketing but its a fallacy.

IF you really care about A or B booked, choose a regulatory body that requires a b-booking license. For example, in europe, if you want to B book you need to also apply for that licensing and then you can see it on the regulatory page that they have it. However, in Australia, ASIC license comes with both A and B, so you don't truly know which your broker is doing. That is the only real way to know. Or some brokers like JFD offer post-trade transparency reports that show which LP accepted the order, at what price, etc etc.
The best strategy is a profitable one.
  • #2,704
  • Aug 12, 2020 2:48am Aug 12, 2020 2:48am
Quoting maflip
{quote} Spread on FTMO-LMAX is currently 2.6. But I noticed it fluctuates around 1.8 to high of 2.8 pips. Why is FTMO-LMAX spread higher than real "LMAX"? Are they also milking their investors on pip spread? This needs to be answered. Why is your spread different from the real LMAX spread? This might seem minor but it can also be a difference between success and failure for FTMO Challengers, also, FTMO needs some explaining on why there are unusual price movements not being seen on other brokers and from real LMAX feed. (There are others who noticed this too) {image}
CADJPY still ~1/1.1 pips in Sierra at the moment.

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Quoting Phylo
LMAX Demo feed complaint - 2020-Jul-10 Ok, after a little evaluation it is very clear that the data for LMAX demo is very very bad, while your FXCM feed is by far the best I have ever seen for FX, CFD (please do not ever ever get rid of it, the detail in the tick level is phenomenal and my trading method depends on this clarity in tick bars). source - https://www.sierrachart.com/SupportB...ThreadID=50314
But it does not answer some other user's question why FTMO - LMAX Demo feed is even worth than the standard LMAX available in Sierra.


I do not want to argue with the user on the Sierra forum, but LMAX price feed is not "very very bad". Why very very bad, from what perspective? These comments usually comes from newbie users who do not know spread is sort of dynamic, so can be widen during news, rollovers etc.
  • #2,705
  • Edited 3:12am Aug 12, 2020 2:59am | Edited 3:12am
Quoting fxmotif
{quote} CADJPY still ~1/1.1 pips in Sierra at the moment. {image} {quote} But it does not answer some other user's question why FTMO - LMAX Demo feed is even worth than the standard LMAX available in Sierra. I do not want to argue with the user on the Sierra forum, but LMAX price feed is not "very very bad". Why very very bad, from what perspective? These comments usually comes from newbie users who do not know spread is sort of dynamic, so can be widen during news, rollovers etc.
Before reading your post, for a number of reasons, I deleted the quoted post.
TSLA: 30-Dec-22 123.18 // 16-Jun-23 260.54 **111.51%**
  • #2,706
  • Aug 12, 2020 3:00am Aug 12, 2020 3:00am
Quoting fxmotif
{quote} CADJPY still ~1/1.1 pips in Sierra at the moment.
I am curious. What is your pricing? I took a 20 second video of my spread on CADJPY. I'm right around that 1.0-1.1 as you mentioned.

https://www.screencast.com/t/Cz0q5dX6m

How different is yours? I occasionally get the 1.3 or 1.4 when it starts moving, but I also got a 0.9
The best strategy is a profitable one.
  • #2,707
  • Aug 12, 2020 3:09am Aug 12, 2020 3:09am
Quoting AnRan
{quote} I am curious. What is your pricing? I took a 20 second video of my spread on CADJPY. I'm right around that 1.0-1.1 as you mentioned. https://www.screencast.com/t/Cz0q5dX6m How different is yours? I occasionally get the 1.3 or 1.4 when it starts moving, but I also got a 0.9
I was commenting maflip's messages maily about chart discrepancies and he also mentioned spreads. So I wanted to give another perspective on same price feed (LMAX)

Your spread looks fine!
  • #2,708
  • Aug 12, 2020 3:17am Aug 12, 2020 3:17am
Its easy pass demo challenges and look I have margin for pass 100k too. We will see how finish week
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Try don't lose pants never...
  • #2,709
  • Aug 12, 2020 3:43am Aug 12, 2020 3:43am
Quoting braintheboss
Its easy pass demo challenges and look I have margin for pass 100k too. We will see how finish week {image}
Yeah I know it's easy. I'm taking the free trial right now. I just noticed some unusual moves in prices and want answers and I'm not the only one that saw some unusual price moves. Also, spread sucks and why is it higher than LMAX.
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  • #2,710
  • Aug 12, 2020 3:53am Aug 12, 2020 3:53am
Quoting maflip
{quote} Yeah I know it's easy. I'm taking the free trial right now. I just noticed some unusual moves in prices and want answers and I'm not the only one that saw some unusual price moves. Also, spread sucks and why is it higher than LMAX. {image}
I understand but at least in my side all that issues not affects my trading. Really I saw worst things in forex like fake spikes of 500p. Maybe most interesting question is about commissions and swaps knowing you are using demo account and maybe they pay lower commissions that small retail traders

PS: Are you trading manual or self auto?
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #2,711
  • Aug 12, 2020 4:58am Aug 12, 2020 4:58am
https://or.justice.cz/ias/ui/vypis-s...bjektId=719800

Information about the companies.
  • #2,712
  • Aug 12, 2020 5:44am Aug 12, 2020 5:44am
Quoting braintheboss
{quote} I understand but at least in my side all that issues not affects my trading. Really I saw worst things in forex like fake spikes of 500p. Maybe most interesting question is about commissions and swaps knowing you are using demo account and maybe they pay lower commissions that small retail traders PS: Are you trading manual or self auto?
I trade manual. But one time someone posted a picture of a really huge spike here. Maybe around that 500 pip you mentioned. It's a really huge spike. It's in this thread buried somewhere.
  • #2,713
  • Edited Aug 13, 2020 3:09pm Aug 12, 2020 9:07pm | Edited Aug 13, 2020 3:09pm
Quoting Tomas-ftmo
Hi Simon91.......Our FTMO platform will soon switch to using multiple liquidity providers, which will help to both improve liquidity and decrease the spreads, .....
.....
Hello CeeSo .........In order to improve liquidity and decrease spreads, we have arranged several other liquidity providers for our FTMO platform. The MT5 and cTrader already uses aggregated liquidity and we will make the switch on MT4 soon as well.
- we have arranged several other liquidity providers for our FTMO platform.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Preliminary considerations

  1. So at present FTMO has two liquidity sources - LMAX and Purple Trading.
  2. FTMO has recently dispensed with all other broker-liquidity sources.
  3. Adding more broker-liquidity sources would appear to be contrary to reasons for removal of recently removed broker-liquidity.
  4. Further to above, FTMO clients trading with LMAX are isolated from Purple Trading liquidity and visa versa.
  5. So if instruments A is cheaper on LMAX and instrument B is cheaper on Purple Trading clients trading instrument A & B can get only one - and only one - of the cheaper options.
  6. The only way this could be overcome is if all liquidity were accessible from a composite source. edit: The only way this could be overcome is if all FTMO liquidity were accessible from only a single composite source.
  7. With regards LMAX, I can find no LMAX recent news announcement of added liquidity on either LeapRate or Finance Magnates - but, of course, I could have missed.
  8. Considering FTMO is not a brokers and the prohibitive costs of DIY liquidity aggregation infrastructure and maintenance - I cannot envision an FTMO accomplishment of clause 6 - however, as always, subject to correction and enlightenment.
  9. So how, exactly, is this added liquidity going to work across the platforms and various classes of instruments and what are the implications regarding trader access to cheaper instrument costs as detailed in clause 5 & 6. ?

There are a whole host of considerations regarding the above and further FTMO detailed clarification would be appreciated.

In the interim here are some documentation considerations.

Inserted Video

RTS Institutional - https://www.7im.co.uk/-/media/files/...onal.pdf?la=en

LMAX RTS Report yr 2020 - https://www.lmax.com/documents/LMAXG...disclosure.pdf

Note - re LMAX RTS Report yr 2020: it will be noted that with the exception of Contracts for Difference - Commodities: Proportion of volume traded as a percentage of that class: Goldmam Sachs 85 %, liquidity of all other instrument classes are fully LMAX inhouse.

When Liquidity Aggregation Leads to Aggravation - https://www.financemagnates.com/inst...o-aggravation/

AGGREGATION AND LIQUIDITY MANAGEMENT IN THE FX MARKET - https://www.xtxmarkets.com/wp-conten...ment-in-FX.pdf

cTrader Integrations - https://spotware.com/integrations/#1...-d9582008-1453
TSLA: 30-Dec-22 123.18 // 16-Jun-23 260.54 **111.51%**
  • #2,714
  • Aug 12, 2020 11:57pm Aug 12, 2020 11:57pm
Quoting Phylo
{quote} - Further to above, FTMO clients trading with LMAX are isolated from Purple Trading liquidity and visa versa. So if instruments A is cheaper on LMAX and instrument B is cheaper on Purple Trading clients trading instrument A & B can get only one - and only one - of the cheaper options. The only way this could be over come is if all liquidity were accessible from a composite source. Considering FTMO is not a brokers and the prohibitive costs of DIY liquidity aggregation infrastructure and maintenance - I cannot envision an FTMO accomplishment...
So, again, FTMO is a liquidity provider (LP), Purple Trading is a broker. Brokers send the orders to LP's. So I was curious as to how many LP's Purple Trading has. According to their CEO, they only have 4 LP's, but their two most commonly used LP's are LMAX and IS-Prime. And IS-Prime is similar to your composite idea, where they have aggregated pricing bridged from all the best, tier1 LP's, including hedge funds, banks, etc. Purple trading isn't going to experience what the LMAX clients experience for two reasons.

  1. Purple trading has 4 LP's underwriting its transactions. So much better execution and deeper liquidity, so less spread issues over news and rollover.
  2. When the parent company of the Broker is its own liquidity provider (LMAX), there is a conflict of interest. This is yet another reason why we see what we see with these spread distortions.

We're on a lmax demo, the whole more LP thing with a parent company being the LP doesn't sound do-able. This doesn't mean that FTMO is also on a LMAX live. In fact, they probably aren't. Just another reason why the need for no news trading. Different feeds. Makes sense actually.

If it can't actually be done, this is much better handled by calling their rep at LMAX and saying the distortion of spread on these demos need to stop. Even if it means fixing price for that hour. I opened 3.84 lots today on ECAD close to the low, spread today jumped to 60 pips. It pushed my DD just 400$ shy of hitting the 2500$ limit, and I just started this account, too. It added 1800$ in DD. I took a video of it as well just in case it did hit my limit, but thankfully it didn't. That level of price distortion is NOT normal, or what "most brokers" experience on a Wednesday to Thursday rollover.

No one could ever fully do clause 6 cause forex isn't a centralized market like equities, but companies like IS-Prime are as close as it gets.

Quoting Phylo
{quote}
LMAX RTS Report yr 2020: it will be noted that with the exception of Contracts for Difference - Commodities: Proportion of volume traded as a percentage of that class: Goldmam Sachs 85 %, liquidity of all other instrument classes are fully LMAX inhouse.
I'm actually really glad you found that information. It basically says they don't have enough in-house liquidity to underwrite commodities safely, so they source it out to Goldman Sachs. Which I've said several time, they aren't as large a LP. The rest about being in-house, again, isn't surprising. They are a LP so it's all in-house.
The best strategy is a profitable one.
  • #2,715
  • Edited 3:17pm Aug 13, 2020 12:35am | Edited 3:17pm
Quoting AnRan
{quote} So, again, FTMO is a liquidity provider (LP), Purple Trading is a broker. Brokers send the orders to LP's. So I was curious as to how many LP's Purple Trading has. According to their CEO, they only have 4 LP's, but their two most commonly used LP's are LMAX and IS-Prime. And IS-Prime is similar to your composite idea, where they have aggregated pricing bridged from all the best, tier1 LP's, including hedge funds, banks, etc. Purple trading isn't going to experience what the LMAX clients experience for two reasons. Purple trading has 4 LP's...
thanks for comments

- if any not clear - the term 'broker-liquidity sources', for brevity, implies either as applicable.
- the object of posing the improbable is to, hopefully, eliminate ambiguities and draw clarity and detail of answer.
- clause 6. does not refer to any global centralised spectrum of available liquidity but to FTMO's limited offer of liquidity without liquidity isolation -> i.e. choice of either LMAX liquidity or Purple Trading liquidity.
---> One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them : Snow White and Lord of the Rings : J. R. R. Tolkien
TSLA: 30-Dec-22 123.18 // 16-Jun-23 260.54 **111.51%**
  • #2,716
  • Aug 13, 2020 8:38am Aug 13, 2020 8:38am
Quoting AnRan
{quote} So, again, FTMO is a liquidity provider (LP), Purple Trading is a broker. Brokers send the orders to LP's. So I was curious as to how many LP's Purple Trading has. According to their CEO, they only have 4 LP's, but their two most commonly used LP's are LMAX and IS-Prime. And IS-Prime is similar to your composite idea, where they have aggregated pricing bridged from all the best, tier1 LP's, including hedge funds, banks, etc. Purple trading isn't going to experience what the LMAX clients experience for two reasons. Purple trading has 4 LP's...
Does your video capture the 60 pip spread?

Average spread on FTMO LMax feed for EURCAD is about 2 pips.

60 pips would be totally insane.

If the video footage happens to show the Bid/Ask lines and I see a 60 pip spread, I would be very concerned.

Masterrmind ........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #2,717
  • Aug 13, 2020 1:28pm Aug 13, 2020 1:28pm
Seems like I have made the ignore list too lol
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  • #2,718
  • Aug 13, 2020 1:37pm Aug 13, 2020 1:37pm
Quoting akamrp
Seems like I have made the ignore list too lol{image}
While he not pass here is all ok. Welcome to the club
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #2,719
  • Aug 13, 2020 2:20pm Aug 13, 2020 2:20pm
Day one of my 30 Day Challenge.
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  • #2,720
  • Aug 13, 2020 2:22pm Aug 13, 2020 2:22pm
Nice job Sam. You doing the 100k challenge right?
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