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  • #2,261
  • Edited 7:16am Jul 11, 2020 7:03am | Edited 7:16am
Quoting newegg
{quote} I see people throw this statement or something similar around a lot and I don't know how it makes any sense. If a discipline trader can make 2% a month on a $100,000 capital, what is stopping them from making 10% a month? Is it not just a matter of scaling your lot size? A discipline trader is not simply someone who trades tiny lot size. It is a trader, who has an edge on the market, has a strategy that is well backtested and forward tested and also has his psychology fixed. I am not there yet and even me, I didn't void any of the conditions...
I agree 10% per month is very conservative and quite low. And this talking about full manual. With self auto things can go exponential. Anyway can't keep weekend trades is a big limit in profits and make hard be consistent because obligate you to be a intraday scalper and avoid trade half week at least. Basically you have trade overleverage if you want make a decent profit. I feel this more risky that keep trades in weekend
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #2,262
  • Jul 11, 2020 7:17am Jul 11, 2020 7:17am
It's a major return per annum if 10% is gained per month.

It would drive $100,000 to $313,842.84 in just one year.

How many top hedge funds can return 213.8% pa ?

If professional traders struggle with it then surely retail traders would too.

The critical part in all of this is not if a 10% gain per month can be achieved since we all know it can at times but rather how consistently can it be achieved.

Once funded the best part is that no profit target is set and this in itself is a very big deal since accounts would fail quite frequently even if a minimum target of 10% per month was required.

Masterrmind .........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #2,263
  • Jul 11, 2020 7:33am Jul 11, 2020 7:33am
Quoting braintheboss
{quote} I agree 10% per month is very conservative and quite low. And this talking about full manual. With self auto things can go exponential. Anyway can't keep weekend trades is a big limit in profits and make hard be consistent because obligate you to be a intraday scalper and avoid trade half week at least. Basically you have trade overleverage if you want make a decent profit. I feel this more risky that keep trades in weekend
The last part you wrote I certainly agree with you.

By limiting the weekend trades it forces the trader to be either a scalper or medium term trader for the most part.

They limit their risk by forcing trade closures prior to the weekend but at the expense of the trader having to scalp or trade smaller swings at high leverage to make exceptional profit and certainly it is more risky.

Masterrmind ...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #2,264
  • Jul 11, 2020 7:34am Jul 11, 2020 7:34am
Quoting Masterrmind
It's a major return per annum if 10% is gained per month. It would drive $100,000 to $313,842.84 in just one year. How many top hedge funds can return 213.8% pa ? If professional traders struggle with it then surely retail traders would too. The critical part in all of this is not if a 10% gain per month can be achieved since we all know it can at times but rather how consistently can it be achieved. Once funded the best part is that no profit target is set and this in itself is a very big deal since accounts would fail quite frequently even if...
I agree partially but only thing can stop a consistent trader is unexpected extreme markets like last Jan. Because consistent means you are methodical and you can reproduce performance always. And thinking this kind of cases are rare even they happens with some regularity maybe question is how they protect their capital of these moments.

Because if you are trapped in one you can wipe your account but you can be in the right direction too, right? And not all is luck. Even a wrong decision can be turned if trader is enough "mind fast"

Since we don't know what problem had every trader in that struggling moments then I think we can accept while trader can control the situation he should not fail...
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #2,265
  • Jul 11, 2020 7:36am Jul 11, 2020 7:36am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} The last part you wrote I certainly agree with you. By limiting the weekend trades it forces the trader to be either a scalper or medium term trader for the most part. They limit their risk by forcing trade closures prior to the weekend but at the expense of the trader having to scalp or trade smaller swings at high leverage to make exceptional profit and certainly it is more risky. Masterrmind ...........
The main drawback from my point of view is really this rule not protect you of unexpected movements. This year is an example. Big falls didn't happen in weekend. If you are overleveraged a small movement can make you much pain.

But one thing Thomas told maybe support even clearer this limit is useless. He commented not all trades are copied at master account. If they filter trades using their staff then what risk is keep trades?
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #2,266
  • Jul 11, 2020 7:39am Jul 11, 2020 7:39am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} The last part you wrote I certainly agree with you. By limiting the weekend trades it forces the trader to be either a scalper or medium term trader for the most part. They limit their risk by forcing trade closures prior to the weekend but at the expense of the trader having to scalp or trade smaller swings at high leverage to make exceptional profit and certainly it is more risky. Masterrmind ...........

When doing the verification and challenge you do not have to close your trade over the weekend. This could help the longer term trader hit the PT required. after that there is no need for a PT so traders should just make what they can, they do not need to hit 10% monthly although that would be nice.

Also, as I only needed to hit the PT requirements, I actually closed some of my trades early when doing the challenge as it reached the PT and I didn't need to let them go on. Think I had 3/4 trades open at the time I hit my PT.
  • #2,267
  • Jul 11, 2020 7:44am Jul 11, 2020 7:44am
Quoting braintheboss
{quote} I agree partially but on!y thing can stop a consistent trader is unexpected extreme markets like last Jan. Because consistent means you are methodical and you can reproduce performance always. And thinking this kind of cases are rare even they happens with some regularity maybe question is how they protect their capital of these moments. Because if you are trapped in one you can wipe your account but you can be in the right direction too, right? And not all is luck. Even a wrong decision can be turned if trader is enough "mind fast" Since...
Longer term the trader cannot control the black swan or flash crash event so it's a risk just waiting to show its ugly head.

These events have happened not only in the major trading sessions but also in the quoted Asian session.

Only way to miss such an event is to not be in the market at the time which for a very active trader it becomes almost luck that such an event is missed.

To limit being involved one would need to limit actual trading time in the markets.

Unfortunately the trader will never be able to control all situations so given enough time the chances of failing or blowing the account are quite likely.

Masterrmind .........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #2,268
  • Edited 8:09am Jul 11, 2020 7:50am | Edited 8:09am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Longer term the trader cannot control the black swan or flash crash event so it's a risk just waiting to show its ugly head. These events have happened not only in the major trading sessions but also in the quoted Asian session. Only way to miss such an event is to not be in the market at the time which for a very active trader it becomes almost luck that such an event is missed. To limit being involved one would need to limit actual trading time in the markets. Unfortunately the trader will never be able to control all situations so given...
But you can have some loss in that moment because in theory an experienced or pro trader have in account the worst case ( how much he accepts loss as maximum ). I never take in account traders wipe account as consistent because if you lost all your capital then you never was profitable and you never was consistent.

Then at the end if one month you are negative maybe affect you in your monthly average performance but you still should be profitable. And as trader never make same profit then sometimes a better previous month can compensate that lower month. If it's 10% or 1% it depends of trader.

And we don't know if some retailers are making higher too. Little people have enough capital for be rich trading then high % performance is little money comparing with traditional big players. And when you have big capital you don't need risk for get much. Sometimes is more about physiological thing
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #2,269
  • Jul 11, 2020 7:57am Jul 11, 2020 7:57am
Quoting akamrp
{quote} When doing the verification and challenge you do not have to close your trade over the weekend. This could help the longer term trader hit the PT required. after that there is no need for a PT so traders should just make what they can, they do not need to hit 10% monthly although that would be nice. Also, as I only needed to hit the PT requirements, I actually closed some of my trades early when doing the challenge as it reached the PT and I didn't need to let them go on. Think I had 3/4 trades open at the time I hit my PT.
Yes challenge and verification rules slightly different to funded account rules.

Maybe the funded account rules should be set at all challenge and verification stages so traders know what they are supposed to do come the funded account.

In any case risk is all around us.

We either take it on or we don't.

Much like spending hard earned funds to have a crack at the challenge accounts, either accept the risk involved which by the way is plenty or simply walk away.

Traders can make up their own minds.

Masterrmind .........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #2,270
  • Jul 11, 2020 8:12am Jul 11, 2020 8:12am
{quote} I’m sure it was said here before, but to clear it up again – once you pass the Verification, we give you an FTMO Account to trade. This is a demo account, which is connected to our live master account (although we have right not to copy all your trades ). There is a few milliseconds delay in the execution, but we pay out profits based on the results you achieved on the FTMO Account (demo), not our live account in the background. For this reason, we also want all our traders to trade according to the real market conditions.

really curious what he meant by that. if they have the right to not copy all the trades(assuming ur funded and they reviewed ur stats and strategy), then what s the point? for whom are the funded traders actually trade for? i don t wanna make asumptions or..it just doesn t sit right with me that statement
  • #2,271
  • Jul 11, 2020 9:06am Jul 11, 2020 9:06am
Quoting Masterrmind
It's a major return per annum if 10% is gained per month. It would drive $100,000 to $313,842.84 in just one year. How many top hedge funds can return 213.8% pa ? If professional traders struggle with it then surely retail traders would too. The critical part in all of this is not if a 10% gain per month can be achieved since we all know it can at times but rather how consistently can it be achieved. Once funded the best part is that no profit target is set and this in itself is a very big deal since accounts would fail quite frequently even if...
Mastermind, some responses above to my post are laughable but I know you can confirm that 10% a month for the 90% of traders who take a Challenge is unachievable.

I command people for trying but that is the reality.
  • #2,272
  • Jul 11, 2020 9:21am Jul 11, 2020 9:21am
Quoting driven18
{quote} Mastermind, some responses above to my post are laughable but I know you can confirm that 10% a month for the 90% of traders who take a Challenge is unachievable. I command people for trying but that is the reality.
Some affirmations are laughable too... Everybody can guess but nobody knows really. It's like 95% of traders loss money and later brokers warning talks about 70/85% of their customers. You think about accepted "facts" here again before make any affirmation based in what?
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #2,273
  • Jul 11, 2020 9:27am Jul 11, 2020 9:27am
Quoting Masterrmind
It's a major return per annum if 10% is gained per month. It would drive $100,000 to $313,842.84 in just one year. How many top hedge funds can return 213.8% pa ? If professional traders struggle with it then surely retail traders would too. The critical part in all of this is not if a 10% gain per month can be achieved since we all know it can at times but rather how consistently can it be achieved. Once funded the best part is that no profit target is set and this in itself is a very big deal since accounts would fail quite frequently even if...
Hedge funds are not trading with your money at 1:100 leverage. They also have even stricter risk management policies in place compared to retail prop firms like FTMO.

If we are talking of dollar to dollar value, FTMO's $100k account with 1:100 leverage means the money at play is $10 million. Hence making $10,000 off it in a month is effectively 0.1%. Multiply that by 12 and you get a mere 1.2%
  • #2,274
  • Jul 11, 2020 9:29am Jul 11, 2020 9:29am
Quoting braintheboss
{quote} I agree 10% per month is very conservative and quite low. And this talking about full manual. With self auto things can go exponential. Anyway can't keep weekend trades is a big limit in profits and make hard be consistent because obligate you to be a intraday scalper and avoid trade half week at least. Basically you have trade overleverage if you want make a decent profit. I feel this more risky that keep trades in weekend
Wow..not much more to say. Good Luck with that.
  • #2,275
  • Jul 11, 2020 9:36am Jul 11, 2020 9:36am
Quoting driven18
{quote} Wow..not much more to say. Good Luck with that.
Maybe is so much for your skills. A good strategy plan make things easy

https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...1#post13054061
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #2,276
  • Jul 11, 2020 9:42am Jul 11, 2020 9:42am
Quoting 1odi
{quote} I’m sure it was said here before, but to clear it up again – once you pass the Verification, we give you an FTMO Account to trade. This is a demo account, which is connected to our live master account (although we have right not to copy all your trades ). There is a few milliseconds delay in the execution, but we pay out profits based on the results you achieved on the FTMO Account (demo), not our live account in the background. For this reason, we also want all our traders to trade according to the real market conditions. really curious...
In order not to assume malice, I would assume if a funded trader starts making losses and it's becoming a trend for that particular trader, they may choose to isolate their account from been copied by their live account to limit their exposure to losses from the said trader without necessarily shutting down the trader's account since they may not have breached any of the trading conditions.
  • #2,277
  • Jul 11, 2020 9:45am Jul 11, 2020 9:45am
Quoting braintheboss
{quote} Maybe is so much for your skills. A good strategy plan make things easy https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...1#post13054061
I knew you would go there and you even posted other person results.

I am not professing it, you are that "10% per month is very conservative and quite low"

Show us your results so we can see that you know what you are talking about.
  • #2,278
  • Edited 10:02am Jul 11, 2020 9:49am | Edited 10:02am
Quoting driven18
{quote} I knew you would go there and you even posted other person results. I am not professing it, you are. Show us your results so we can see that you know what you are talking about.
Just you only have visit my main thread or enter in my profile. But those are tests of my auto system. For see my manual performance you should search yourself here. Maybe you get an unexpected surprise
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #2,279
  • Jul 11, 2020 10:24am Jul 11, 2020 10:24am
Quoting newegg
{quote} In order not to assume malice, I would assume if a funded trader starts making losses and it's becoming a trend for that particular trader, they may choose to isolate their account from been copied by their live account to limit their exposure to losses from the said trader without necessarily shutting down the trader's account since they may not have breached any of the trading conditions.
that can t even be an assumption in my eyes, since a lot of traders have a very low win rate but high RR and still profitable, so untill u break 1 of the rules u can t be stating 1 is on a losing trend. as to what u said that hey separate the account and stuff like that, then that s just crazy in my opinion..are u trading at a prop or not?(meaning their money)..there are other ways a prop can hedge losses, and therefore keep a tight risk, not by not copying the trades from ur demo to the master..cos if that s the case what makes u think that there is a master(live) account anyways? for all we know, they could have had a bit of capital in the beggining just in case they had to pay out some traders that succeded till many others fail the challenge(and for that wouldn t need a lot of capital). just like a casino, but even better when u know that atleast 85% of traders blow up lol///it s like they are trading with a win rate of 85%..i m not saying that this is their bussisnes model, altho could very much be, since the alone stated 92% of traders fail...u do the math. anyways, 1 says, as long as they pay out i don t care, and i can agree but what if in ur case they decide not to pay(for whatever reason)? u have no legal rights and nothing to fight for..ofc most u can lose is ur initial challenge fee..
again, i m just curious why he said that, not trying to assume things..but thinking out loud rather
  • #2,280
  • Jul 11, 2020 10:40am Jul 11, 2020 10:40am
If I have 7 missed demos it is because I am improving the strategy aggressively, by the time I enter the challenge and so I can make it more relaxed, not like some who are desperate to pass and showing horrible accounts in the challenge.
Many of the competitors are winners in their accounts with 10% or 15% drawdown, but to enter FTMO you have to lower the drawdown to 5%,

keep calm!
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