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1% to 3% Per Day? All things are Possible

  • #601
  • Jun 16, 2020 2:11pm Jun 16, 2020 2:11pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} They (through the middle man like FTMO or whatever they are called), impose other conditions such as limits on dd, limits on holding trades over the weekend and bla bla bla rules. Trading is hard enough. Markets keep changing unexpectedly enough and the bozo in white house pukes enough nonsense to rattle the market. I don't need artificial nonsensical limits put on me. Admittedly there are traders that are Ok with it and do a good job of complying too. I'm not one of them. So FK the investors again. lol And, those investors go put their...
Even better then, if all successful traders wouldn’t want to comply it just makes this better for those who wants, less offers = more demands. 😁Cheers M8,
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #602
  • Jun 16, 2020 3:02pm Jun 16, 2020 3:02pm
Quoting PrinceJ58
Where it was mentioned that having a small balance makes it hard, the ideal thing is to have such a system that is right x amount of time, let say 60% 1:1 just as example 1 asset 1 trade at a time could risk 5%, in my opinion unlike the test i was doing which was 5% per asset. All it would take is a bad market with 20 losing trades despite the fact that the reducing balance would still risk 5%, it would be a significant draw down. I have read about a guy who did 2k to 70+k in about 6 or 8 months risking the same 5%, some trades did 15% more or less....
The reason why having a small balance makes it hard is because of the risk needed in order to achieve a decent return which is impossible long term, like the guy you have read about that turned 2k to 70k in 6/8 months.


It is like throwing a poker tournament with 1000 participants with the only rule to be all in on each cards dealt, ultimately there is gonna be one winner left and of course you won’t read about the 999 loosers...




I’d be interested to see how your guy did 18/24 months since then.
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #603
  • Jun 16, 2020 5:24pm Jun 16, 2020 5:24pm
Quoting PrinceJ58
Where it was mentioned that having a small balance makes it hard, the ideal thing is to have such a system that is right x amount of time, let say 60% 1:1 just as example 1 asset 1 trade at a time could risk 5%, in my opinion unlike the test i was doing which was 5% per asset. All it would take is a bad market with 20 losing trades despite the fact that the reducing balance would still risk 5%, it would be a significant draw down. I have read about a guy who did 2k to 70+k in about 6 or 8 months risking the same 5%, some trades did 15% more or less....
Hey Jermaine,

The daily return % matters for rapidly growing a small account into a bigger one. (small and bigger are trader-dependent.)
"small" can be defined as : Trader should not blink on losing the whole small balance multiple times (until the target is achieved).

When trading the small account, everything is allowed (trend-following, reversion-to-mean, martingale, grid ... etc).
This however does not mean to trade stupidly, for example you should establish a direction based on technical or fundamental analysis, and unfearfully trade that direction.

Once first equity jump is achieved, the daily return % can become a weekly %.
Once second equity jump is achieved, the weekly return % can become a monthly %.
and so on to quarterly, and yearly %.

Example :

1st Jump (daily plan):

  1. Small Balance 100$ (make sure that you won't blink on loosing this account 10 times = $1000)
  2. Daily Target: 20%, Jump Target Equity : $2,000 (estimated time 1 Month)
  3. Risk is VERY HIGH

2nd Jump (weekly plan):

  1. Balance $2,000
  2. Weekly Target: 20%, Jump Target Equity : $10,000 (estimated time 2 Months)
  3. Risk is HIGH

3rd Jump (monthly plan):

  1. Balance $10,000
  2. Monthly Target: 20%, Jump Target Equity : $50,000 (estimated time 9 Months)
  3. Risk is MODERATE

4th Jump (quarterly plan):

  1. Balance $50,000
  2. Quarterly Target: 20%, Jump Target Equity : $100,000 (estimated time 12 Months)
  3. Risk is LOW

As always, all the best for you and your family,
Khalil

No guts, no glory
  • #604
  • Jun 16, 2020 5:30pm Jun 16, 2020 5:30pm
Quoting abokwaik
{quote} Hey Jermaine, The daily return % matters for rapidly growing a small account into a bigger one. (small and bigger are trader-dependent.) "small" can be defined as : Trader should not blink on losing the whole small balance multiple times (until the target is achieved). When trading the small account, everything is allowed (trend-following, reversion-to-mean, martingale, grid ... etc). This however does not mean to trade stupidly, for example you should establish a direction based on technical or fundamental analysis, and unfearfully trade...
To my surprise!!! Thanks for the reply. I will use this example as a plan...
Said PErfectly by the one who walks the talk. Keep safe my friend. Been A while, there has been so much that has happened.
R:R "Percentage Focus"
  • #605
  • Jun 17, 2020 12:29am Jun 17, 2020 12:29am
Tnx for great thread!

Investors never put all egs in 1 basket. And traders should implement that concept too.

So dont rely on 1 setup but diversify at least N setups on 1 account. Because there are statistical fluctuations in longterm no matter what strategy you use. Combine n setups with various risk/rewards and various enter/exit strategies. There might be drawdown periods (no more than 30% but still >1 year no profit) for some setups more than 1 year... therefore combine setups to avoid having entire year no profits. But keep total drawdown of all N package no more than 30%. I see that 10 setups where each dd no more than 20% can give you no more than 30% total dd because of compensation.

Trade the balance line. Thats called synthetic asset. Have 2 accounts. Turn on copy from A (signal, can be demo account) to B (real account) when A dd is 15% and you know from your X years backtests that no more than 30% dd. Stop copy when A recover so B have 15% profits. From 1 N setups package you would have about 3-6 entries per year to turn on copy. So with 15% dd abot 45% to 90% yearly profits. Thats perfect for investors.

Lets make an ecosystem with properly made synthetic assets and invest in each other in that way we could have initial count of investors about 5-10. See its hard to get 1st investors... Majority like when someone else is investing too... I have 3 investors (which i know in real life)+ me. Everyone can attract at least 1 investor. So if we make community of traders where each prepare at least 1 shyntetic asset and have at least 1 investor so when community is 5 dedicated safe/open/friendly ideas sharing traders we can launch in social platforms our offers with allready min 10 investors.
  • #606
  • Jun 17, 2020 9:17am Jun 17, 2020 9:17am
Quoting joyny
Tnx for great thread! Investors never put all egs in 1 basket. And traders should implement that concept too. So dont rely on 1 setup but diversify at least N setups on 1 account. Because there are statistical fluctuations in longterm no matter what strategy you use. Combine n setups with various risk/rewards and various enter/exit strategies. There might be drawdown periods (no more than 30% but still >1 year no profit) for some setups more than 1 year... therefore combine setups to avoid having entire year no profits. But keep total drawdown of...
Investors would not be my problem is the conscience of ensuring that the system performs according to expectation on a continuous basis. As to what you have stated sounds like a plan. I think once you have something that is working, even having investors would not be your main focus, it would be bonus to what is working for you already.
So having a system that can withstand draw-downs or possibly avoid those hits that are bound to happen throughout the year for one reason or another, that my friend would work out in the long run.
Such as 1:2 risk reward system. Where every two losses experience will be cover by one win.
What if you split the trades into 2 or 3 where:
1:1,
1:2 and
1:Trail=Long-term if it makes it, the concept of let your winners run.
R:R "Percentage Focus"
  • #607
  • Jun 17, 2020 10:22pm Jun 17, 2020 10:22pm
What about trading 1 pair?
  • #608
  • Edited 1:55pm Jun 18, 2020 12:50pm | Edited 1:55pm
Quoting abokwaik
{quote} Hey Jermaine, The daily return % matters for rapidly growing a small account into a bigger one. (small and bigger are trader-dependent.) "small" can be defined as : Trader should not blink on losing the whole small balance multiple times (until the target is achieved). When trading the small account, everything is allowed (trend-following, reversion-to-mean, martingale, grid ... etc). This however does not mean to trade stupidly, for example you should establish a direction based on technical or fundamental analysis, and unfearfully trade...

Hey buddy,


I am very glad you posted this because it exactly proves the point I am trying to make here, I quote “The daily return % matters for rapidly growing a small account into a bigger one.” That is exactly why most retail traders fail because they have no choices but to attempt this nonsense in order to even think about making a living out of trading.


You “advise” to start with a 100usd account with a 20% daily return yet you say that one must not blink if loosing 10 accounts, why not
starting with a 1k account instead with a 2% daily return ? Even that would be way too much risk, and then it continues with gradually lowering a huge risk already to less huge risk, that for 12 months to turn it to a 50k account.


Can you show to the readers just one account, even demo, that turned 100usd to 50k in 12 months (50,000% return by the way), just one. If your “idea” is not just a delusional dream we should be able to see your own account proving that, otherwise why would you advise such tremendous risk ? Also in a market with many millions retail traders it shouldn’t be hard to show us even 1000 of such accounts.


There is no shortcut possible to live off trading, skill with big capital and low risk money management is the way to do it and if you haven’t a big capital, investors are the only way possible till you grow enough capital.


Putting up some unrealistic numbers is just so easy and a delusional dream, I challenge you to just show us one account with a 50,000% return in 12 months, shouldn’t be difficult to find it on internet among all the social trading and forums..., and better start with your own account.


On paper it sounds all great but in reality it is just not probable at all, an experienced trader has the responsibility to not give false hope to other wannabe fellow traders. I guess you are not, despite being on FF since 2012, which should give another clue to readers....


cheers,
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #609
  • Edited 2:25am Jun 19, 2020 2:03am | Edited 2:25am
Quoting LDFX
I challenge you to just show us one account with a 50,000% return in 12 months, shouldn’t be difficult to find it on internet among all the social trading and forums..., and better start with your own account. On paper it sounds all great but in reality it is just not probable at all
You can find a lot of examples in brokers contests... for example here you can see an account from 1000 usd made 350000 usd in 24h.

some can study those contests and attend contests with demo money and learn how to trade with extremely high risk. Maybe it can be repeatable... for example 9 looses and 1 win. And that 1 win covers 9 looses - that abokwaik mentioned in his example. Maybe 1 win and 100 losses but still profitable approach. It all depends on money management here. See that as an idea... as an example. It is not prooved. Be open to new ideas even if not prooved.

I prefer to stable 30-70% yearly trading and attract investors. But believe this is not only possible path...
  • #610
  • Jun 19, 2020 3:14pm Jun 19, 2020 3:14pm
Quoting joyny
{quote} You can find a lot of examples in brokers contests... for example here you can see an account from 1000 usd made 350000 usd in 24h. some can study those contests and attend contests with demo money and learn how to trade with extremely high risk. Maybe it can be repeatable... for example 9 looses and 1 win. And that 1 win covers 9 looses - that abokwaik mentioned in his example. Maybe 1 win and 100 losses but still profitable approach. It all depends...

This exactly proves my point again.


With a low capital your only choice is to take tremendous risks with very very low odds to succeed, the “example” you mentioned is actually a very good example to prove my point because what were the odds to achieve that kind of return ? Probably 1:1’000’000 if not less, which was done with a demo account by the way, it is like playing Russian roulette with a million guy and the one remaining wins the lottery, same as if you throw a pier tournament with the only being all in at each cards dealt, obviously there is gonna be one remaining, calling this a edge is just pure nonsense. If one wants to make a living out of trading and hasn’t fundamentally understood risk then he should not trade at all.


Learning to trade with high risk isn’t trading anymore..., and putting out idealistic numbers isn’t an “idea”. You are saying a 90% hit rate with a risk to reward of 1:9 ?! Abokwalk didn’t mention that though. That is plainly impossible dude, how long have you been trading ?
And even worse, you are saying a 1% hit rate with a risk reward of 1:100, how would that be possible if risking too much capital ?


And that is why the majority of traders fail, chasing unrealistic profits that you guys are encouraging without backing it up with your own statistics, that is way to simple and forking arrogant.


Thanks for your post allowing to share further my opinion.

Cheers,
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #611
  • Jun 19, 2020 3:59pm Jun 19, 2020 3:59pm
Quoting joyny
{quote} You can find a lot of examples in brokers contests... for example here you can see an account from 1000 usd made 350000 usd in 24h. some can study those contests and attend contests with demo money and learn how to trade with extremely high risk. Maybe it can be repeatable... for example 9 looses and 1 win. And that 1 win covers 9 looses - that abokwaik mentioned in his example. Maybe 1 win and 100 losses but still profitable approach. It all depends...

Also you are saying, I quote “It all depends on money management here” but your post is in total contradiction with money management. A 90% hit rate with a 1:9 r:r is just impossible, and a 1% hit rate with a 1:100 r:r is even less possible by just risking 2% per trade.

what is money management if it doesn’t allow you to manage risk ? Well it is just no money management at all but greed fueled by unrealistic expectations..., what your post is all about.

I really have the sens that not much retail traders are actually understanding what risk really is, most are only willing to accept the idea of taking risk but not risk in itself because it is abstract for them, they just don’t understand it before it hits them hard. Trading is all about managing risk to make it low. Anyone can gamble, it is easy, but odds are extremely low to make a living out of it, while trading is only about getting the odds in your favor, the more you risk the more you are lowering your odds to be successful, period.

Where by the way is the demo trading account that made 50’000% throughout a year ? Just one.



Cheers,
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #612
  • Jun 19, 2020 4:35pm Jun 19, 2020 4:35pm
Quoting LDFX
{quote} Also you are saying, I quote “It all depends on money management here” but your post is in total contradiction with money management. A 90% hit rate with a 1:9 r:r is just impossible, and a 1% hit rate with a 1:100 r:r is even less possible by just risking 2% per trade. what is money management if it doesn’t allow you to manage risk ? Well it is just no money management at all but greed fueled by unrealistic expectations..., what your post is all about. I really have the sens that not much retail traders are actually understanding what risk...
Hi bud.

Thanks for introducing me to the concept of "Loss aversion". I found the Wiki page for it and am still reading it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion

It just makes so much sense. WE are hardwired to think that way. We make a lot of things happen because we think they can happen that way. In your writings, you say a number of times that this and that can not happen. Indeed they can happen. It's just that the manner they can happen isn't immediately obvious to us. So, at the end, your argument is that if something doesn't seem reasonable to happen, then it can't happen.

The only way you would consider the possibility of it to happen is to be given the proof that it has been done by someone before.

I totally disagree with the cliché of "Everything is possible" or "Sky is the limit" because I can name a whole bunch of stuff that are not possible but it doesn't stop us from pursuing those impossible things. WE may never achieve the impossible goals but in the pursuit of them, we may find somethings that are possible and without that pursuit, we would never even find the lesser achievements.

I think your overall advice is something like 'Don't waste your time'. What I can tell you is that in the specific subject of using SL vs. not using SL (the loss aversion issue), there is whole lot of knowledge just waiting to be discovered if you allow the possibility to look for them. When using SL, a lot of traders have the mind set of 'start from fresh after SL is hit'. Then they hit SL again and the same old conclusion faces them: 'start from fresh after SL is hit' and on and on. That kind of trader will never get to see what is beyond that wall that they keep hitting and if they are curious to try, there is you saying: 'Don't waste your time'. And you are quite passionate about it too.

My advice is to be driven by what your passion is.

In my case, I have discovered a wealth of knowledge (in my own opinion that is) which I couldn't have if I always used SL. I don't consider it to be a waste of time. Your passion has led you to be a staunch believer of using SL. Very strong feelings. Those strong feelings and beliefs set one's direction for them. So, as always, I say let them do what they believe in and eventually they will find their passion one way or another.
  • #613
  • Jun 19, 2020 5:00pm Jun 19, 2020 5:00pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Hi bud. Thanks for introducing me to the concept of "Loss aversion". I found the Wiki page for it and am still reading it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion It just makes so much sense. WE are hardwired to think that way. We make a lot of things happen because we think they can happen that way. In your writings, you say a number of times that this and that can not happen. Indeed they can happen. It's just that the manner they can happen isn't immediately obvious to us. So, at the end, your argument is that if something...
Thanks OutThere for your post.

I did not say ultimately “don’t waste your time”, I believe that in order to be successful in trading one must waste a lot of time. You should better say don’t waste your money on your delusional expectations, this was mostly what I said.


There is a difference between possible and probable, most including you (with all due respect) are chasing those unrealistic profits by putting the floating losses under the carpet by keeping them open till it eventually comes back.


I understand the dream that motivates you and many other fellow retail traders which got me in this business in the first place, but
with experience you will learn that those expectations are just not possible and you are gonna waste a lot of money, but eventually your time wasted would have given you experience which is gonna be your biggest asset.


Anyway always a pleasure to read you even if we totally disagree.

Cheers my friend
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #614
  • Jun 19, 2020 5:26pm Jun 19, 2020 5:26pm
Quoting LDFX
{quote} are chasing those unrealistic profits by putting the floating losses under the carpet by keeping them open till it eventually comes back.
That part that in the quote from you is just simply not true. It is the other way around. Everything I do in my trading is to get rid of the floating losses but it ain't by using SL...as I mentioned, there are a number of ways to deal with that and using SL is the easiest, most unsophisticated way of dealing with it. IMHO, it is a shortcut. I equate using SL to someone who throws his/her hands up in the air and says F this...and walks away. It does work but then you got someone who is into shortcuts because they don't know any other way.
  • #615
  • Jun 19, 2020 5:30pm Jun 19, 2020 5:30pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} That part that in the quote from you is just simply not true. It is the other way around. Everything I do in my trading is to get rid of the floating losses but it ain't by using SL...as I mentioned, there are a number of ways to deal with that and using SL is the easiest, most unsophisticated way of dealing with it. IMHO, it is a shortcut. I equate using SL to someone who throws his/her hands up in the air and says F this...and walks away. It does work but then you got someone who is into shortcuts because they don't know any other way....
Wait, so you don't use SL?
  • #616
  • Jun 19, 2020 5:46pm Jun 19, 2020 5:46pm
Quoting pipsographer
{quote} Wait, so you don't use SL?
SL??? what's that? lol
  • #617
  • Jun 19, 2020 6:01pm Jun 19, 2020 6:01pm
Quoting LDFX
{quote} Hey buddy, I am very glad you posted this because it exactly proves the point I am trying to make here, I quote “The daily return % matters for rapidly growing a small account into a bigger one.” That is exactly why most retail traders fail because they have no choices but to attempt this nonsense in order to even think about making a living out of trading. You “advise” to start with a 100usd account with a 20% daily return yet you say that one must not blink if loosing 10 accounts, why not starting with a 1k account instead with a 2% daily...
Hey,

The example was only to explain the idea of decreasing the risk (leverage) as your account grows.
It was presented using simple round Target% to match the thread subject.

As for your challenge or judgement, I don't have the time for that.

cheers,
No guts, no glory
  • #618
  • Jun 19, 2020 9:10pm Jun 19, 2020 9:10pm
Yooo whats up b ......... monday market still open .........
  • #619
  • Jun 22, 2020 6:03pm Jun 22, 2020 6:03pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} That part that in the quote from you is just simply not true. It is the other way around. Everything I do in my trading is to get rid of the floating losses but it ain't by using SL...as I mentioned, there are a number of ways to deal with that and using SL is the easiest, most unsophisticated way of dealing with it. IMHO, it is a shortcut. I equate using SL to someone who throws his/her hands up in the air and says F this...and walks away. It does work but then you got someone who is into shortcuts because they don't know any other way....

Well, if everything you do in your trading is to get rid of the floating losses then you are using a stop loss.


Unless you are doing the most unsophisticated way of using stop losses, which is called hedging, which you are doing if I read between the lines ? Otherwise you are using stop loss and my comment doesn’t apply to you.

Also you said in your previous post that traders are hitting a wall because the stop loss is hit so many times. If that is the case, it’s not the stop loss to blame but the trader’s strategy and/or his too tight stop and/or is too small reward.

There is a lot of shortcuts in trading, certainly running loosing trades and/or hedging are, but certainly aren’t gonna make you a successful trader in the long term. Avoiding the wall is an utopia because it is inevitable. Trading is all about managing this wall by being able to take it and bouncing of it while being in profit over time, aka high R:R ratio, sound MM and of course a real strategy.

You are not fighting it, you are just avoiding it by some short term rewarding experience you had and call it a skill.

Hedging, I can give you that, is the most sophisticated way to hide floating losses under the carpet !

If you don’t know where to exit your trades, you should never had taken them in the first place. Because it is the absolute necessity in order to achieve a positive expectancy over time, which trading is all about, period.
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #620
  • Jun 22, 2020 6:13pm Jun 22, 2020 6:13pm
Quoting abokwaik
{quote} Hey, The example was only to explain the idea of decreasing the risk (leverage) as your account grows. It was presented using simple round Target% to match the thread subject. As for your challenge or judgement, I don't have the time for that. cheers,

As I said, it was only an “idea”, delusional and unrealistic by the way.

Perhaps you should have taken the time to post this wonderful wishful thinking idea only if you had the time to prove it, beginning by your own account.

I have an idea too, take 100usd to a casino, risk 20usd on black or red, by decreasing your risk after some bets of course, like judiciously Abokwalk, a high impact poster, said. And after ~300 bets you will end up with 50k. It is possible !

It was my great contribution to this thread, but do not ask me if I did it, I don’t have time for this...

good luck guys, you are gonna need it !
LDFX Trading Ltd
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