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How many years to become profitable?

  • #21
  • Oct 24, 2006 7:20am Oct 24, 2006 7:20am
hey spank, I am a fellow newb just like yourself and I think I can offer up a little advice.

1. Empower yourself man, take the time to learn the forex. As with anything in life, the best things take work. If they were easy, everyone would be doing it.

2. I would suggest researching a broker in the meantime as well. There are various threads in this forum that tell you what to look for in a good broker. Do your research on this as this in very very important

3. When you do get a demo, apply your knowledge and try out various trading systems. There are some great resources in the stickies here. Take a look at simple trading techniques and practice those. The thing is, you never know what time charts to trade off of until you practice and find out what you are comfortable with. The larger timeframes have less whipsaws its true, but when they whip boy you can lose some loot.

Practice around with the different time charts as different traders prefer different charts. I found as a new person to forex, I just wanted to trade. I traded on almost all timeframes and I practiced different techniques. At the end of the first month I lost a bag of cash from my demo account. It was worth it though, I got the "have to trade because I want to trade bug" out of my system. I believe that this bug bites a lot of newbies and you just want to trade.

Once this is out of your system, you can begin to see things a little more clearly. You will also get to see what kind of trader you are. You will find that you might like watching the charts every 15 or so mins. If this is the case, then 15min-1hr trading charts seem like the thing for you. If you find that you like to view the charts every once in a while, then I would hit up trades on the longer time frames.

One thing to read also is about psychology. Even trading the demo, I felt really bad that I lost money. Sometimes you feel that you will never understand this thing. Once you put in the time and the effort to understand, it will pay off. Everyone loses in forex, EVERYONE. Its just how many times you will get back up after you fall is what counts. Try not to take the losing personally because it is where you learn what is good from what is bad. Experience is a hell of a teacher which is why you want to stick with the demo until you are consistent.

Another thing to read up on is money management. Because everyone loses, you want to limit your risk vs. your profits. Go after trades that have low risk and high profitability. There is always risk so prepare for it. I think once you take the time to truly educate yourself, you will appreciate the forex more.

I am in my second month of demoing and I am making a profit now. I have learnt from the first month and have been getting much better. The people here are truly fantastic and more often than not, you can get help and support in here. Read up on some of the traders beginnings, you will see that it was really rough for them too.

take it easy and happy trading!
  • #22
  • Oct 31, 2006 11:20am Oct 31, 2006 11:20am
Quoting philmcgrew
rob booker made a point? What was it?
Great question, old friend! I am happy that you asked!

First, the point is that traders should never risk trading with real money until they have a tested and proven system in place. Trading with money that you can afford to lose is an old saying that I simply don't agree with - I am not sure that any traders I've ever met have a lot of money they'd like to lose. Instead, it makes sense to trade small, lose very little, do a lot of testing, and make sure that when you commit real money to the system -- you have a positive expectancy.

I hope that helps to clarify. Or maybe your question was meant as a criticism, in which case I'm sorry I wasn't clear in the presentation. Happy Trading!
  • #23
  • Oct 31, 2006 11:21am Oct 31, 2006 11:21am
Quoting boycie
Rob Booker is a train crash when he talks. He would be better off communcating through texts, e-mails and websites if anybody was that desperated to hear him.
I am so much worse than a train wreck when I speak. More like a train wreck and an earthquake together. But I most certainly do enjoy speaking with other traders.
  • #24
  • Oct 31, 2006 11:42am Oct 31, 2006 11:42am
Quoting robbooker
Great question, old friend! I am happy that you asked!

First, the point is that traders should never risk trading with real money until they have a tested and proven system in place. Trading with money that you can afford to lose is an old saying that I simply don't agree with - I am not sure that any traders I've ever met have a lot of money they'd like to lose. Instead, it makes sense to trade small, lose very little, do a lot of testing, and make sure that when you commit real money to the system -- you have a positive expectancy.

I hope that helps to clarify. Or maybe your question was meant as a criticism, in which case I'm sorry I wasn't clear in the presentation. Happy Trading!
If your trading a demo with a proven strategy then what is preparing you for the psychological aspect of trading with your own 'real' money? It seems to me that trading on a demo account lacks the mental preparation for trading, which in my opinion is the most important obstacle to overcome.

I'm not saying load an account and learn by losing but I use a profitable strategy in my trading and it wasn't until I went live and lost 50% that I learned what it meant to trade.

This is just my opinion. What works for me might not work for others.
  • #25
  • Oct 31, 2006 11:58am Oct 31, 2006 11:58am
I don't want to speak for Rob, but, I'll give my opinion.

First, I think Rob is referring to a new trader that is just learning the ropes. In that case, they are not working with a proven strategy, so, it doesn't make sense to start trading live.

Then, there's the guy that picks up a new "profitable" trading system and wants to start trading it. The problem is that EVERY trading system, no matter how well defined the rules are, have their own nuances. As a result, your results may not be the same as the next guy trading it. So, you should backtest it and trade it on demo for a while until you get the feel for it.

Finally, there's the guy that's done all that work. Well, now he's ready to get going in a small, but live account. His knowledge of the system, based on the time he spent backtesting it and the time he spent on demo, will give him real confidence when he has real money on the line.

It's a great process for any new trader and I highly recommend it. It's the one I followed and I'm pretty sure it has saved me many thousands of dollars in losses.

stockwet

Quoting hidethereal
If your trading a demo with a proven strategy then what is preparing you for the psychological aspect of trading with your own 'real' money? It seems to me that trading on a demo account lacks the mental preparation for trading, which in my opinion is the most important obstacle to overcome.

I'm not saying load an account and learn by losing but I use a profitable strategy in my trading and it wasn't until I went live and lost 50% that I learned what it meant to trade.

This is just my opinion. What works for me might not work for others.
  • #26
  • Oct 31, 2006 12:22pm Oct 31, 2006 12:22pm
Quoting stockwet
I don't want to speak for Rob, but, I'll give my opinion.

First, I think Rob is referring to a new trader that is just learning the ropes. In that case, they are not working with a proven strategy, so, it doesn't make sense to start trading live.

Then, there's the guy that picks up a new "profitable" trading system and wants to start trading it. The problem is that EVERY trading system, no matter how well defined the rules are, have their own nuances. As a result, your results may not be the same as the next guy trading it. So, you should backtest it and trade it on demo for a while until you get the feel for it.

Finally, there's the guy that's done all that work. Well, now he's ready to get going in a small, but live account. His knowledge of the system, based on the time he spent backtesting it and the time he spent on demo, will give him real confidence when he has real money on the line.

It's a great process for any new trader and I highly recommend it. It's the one I followed and I'm pretty sure it has saved me many thousands of dollars in losses.

stockwet
I'm more of a go big or go home style trader. Once I understood how the market "basically" operated I opened an account with a small sum to get the feel for everything. When I used a demo I just blindly made trades with no regards to anything else, I took unnecessary risks and it didn't bother me, I was lenient on my trading rules and it didn't bother me either. I'm not a fan of demo accounts unless you are completely new to trading and want to get a feel for the software. If you don't want to risk a lot of money because you are a new trader then go to Oanda and open a $100 account, or even $50. You can trade with as little as .01 cent pips if you want. Trading with little money is better than trading with no money at all. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

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When I say go big or go home I don't mean disregard any money management or trading rules I mean do what you can to 'intelligently' speed up the process. <o></o>

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If you want to be a trader than you need to surpass the odds, not play forex video games all day. <o></o>

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Read, test, trade, repeat. It's all you can do. <o></o>

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My views are against the norm but if 90% of people are failing than it looks like I'm on the right side. I'm not trying to give advice and I don't suggest that anyone follow the path that I took, I'm merely showing how what works for one person doesn't always work for another.
  • #27
  • Oct 31, 2006 12:24pm Oct 31, 2006 12:24pm
Quoting hidethereal
If your trading a demo with a proven strategy then what is preparing you for the psychological aspect of trading with your own 'real' money? It seems to me that trading on a demo account lacks the mental preparation for trading, which in my opinion is the most important obstacle to overcome.

I'm not saying load an account and learn by losing but I use a profitable strategy in my trading and it wasn't until I went live and lost 50% that I learned what it meant to trade.

This is just my opinion. What works for me might not work for others.
You are correct that live trading and demo trading are not the same thing. However, if someone cannot trade a demo account successfully for a reasonable period of time then they cannot expect to trade a live account successfully.

It's not just a matter a skill and system it's also a matter of discipline. Usually the first response to that statement is that real money will make you take it more seriously. No, real money will only raise your stress level. Stress level does not equal discipline.
Secret Identity: Bill Sullivan
  • #28
  • Oct 31, 2006 12:29pm Oct 31, 2006 12:29pm
Quoting Captain Piptastic
You are correct that live trading and demo trading are not the same thing. However, if someone cannot trade a demo account successfully for a reasonable period of time then they cannot expect to trade a live account successfully.

It's not just a matter a skill and system it's also a matter of discipline. Usually the first response to that statement is that real money will make you take it more seriously. No, real money will only raise your stress level. Stress level does not equal discipline.
Isn't Captain Piptastic a comic book hero?
  • #29
  • Oct 31, 2006 12:30pm Oct 31, 2006 12:30pm
Quoting Captain Piptastic
You are correct that live trading and demo trading are not the same thing. However, if someone cannot trade a demo account successfully for a reasonable period of time then they cannot expect to trade a live account successfully.

It's not just a matter a skill and system it's also a matter of discipline. Usually the first response to that statement is that real money will make you take it more seriously. No, real money will only raise your stress level. Stress level does not equal discipline.
I was never disciplined with a demo, it wasn't until I had my own money on the line that I understood what I needed to do. But as I also said, I'm different than most, which is a good thing in my opinon.

It's similar to the pay yourself first way of investing in the book "The Richest Man in Babylon". Once my money was on the line my mind would not let me fail.

The best way to manage stress in my opinion is to be put in stressful situations and learn to overcome them.
  • #30
  • Oct 31, 2006 12:33pm Oct 31, 2006 12:33pm
Quoting Captain Piptastic
You are correct that live trading and demo trading are not the same thing. However, if someone cannot trade a demo account successfully for a reasonable period of time then they cannot expect to trade a live account successfully.

It's not just a matter a skill and system it's also a matter of discipline. Usually the first response to that statement is that real money will make you take it more seriously. No, real money will only raise your stress level. Stress level does not equal discipline.
Well said Captain! I've always felt that if you couldn't take a demo account seriously then you are probably trading for the wrong reason. If you have to put real money on the line to feel the rush and enjoy the tension of the moment to feel like a trader I think you're in big trouble. Most failures from trading real money come from people not taking their demo seriously and not trading the same way they practiced.
  • #31
  • Oct 31, 2006 1:00pm Oct 31, 2006 1:00pm
I agree with all the views in the thread however what I am trying to point out is that people work differently and what works for one person might not work for another.

I used demos but it never hit me like it did when I started trading real money. I learned my lessons through real life trial and error and since I made the mistakes and took a financial burden due to them, I never made them again. It worked for me but I do not recommend it for others. I am the kind of person that learns better by a mistake rather than having somebody tell me.

You need to figure out what works for you, what works for person A, might not work for person B.
  • #32
  • Oct 31, 2006 9:44pm Oct 31, 2006 9:44pm
I like that video, tnx.
How you act is more important than how you feel.
  • #33
  • Oct 31, 2006 10:08pm Oct 31, 2006 10:08pm
Hey, Mr. Trend,

How much money do you make? I admit that I have a $1000 Oanda account and make up to 3% weekly, with an average drawdown of 3%...
"The time to act is when others show signs of tire." --W.D. Gann
  • #34
  • Oct 31, 2006 10:14pm Oct 31, 2006 10:14pm
BTW, it's actually good to trade with real money instead of demo, don't plan on losing it, actually try to maximize it. The psychological difference between play money and real money makes all the difference in the world...
"The time to act is when others show signs of tire." --W.D. Gann
  • #35
  • Jan 6, 2008 2:47pm Jan 6, 2008 2:47pm
Hello,

I have been reading the trading stuffs used by the participants that participated in the 2007 automated trading championship, where the winner was able to turn a 10k account into 130k within 12 weeks!

I am just wondering how to get any of those expert advisors designed by any of these participants tested and trusted by metaquotes. Perhaps the 2006 top 20 participants will be fine.

Any expert advisor that makes good use of neural networks just like the 07 winner used will look very promising. Really want to be profitable, have already lost $3k.

Thanks
mimiforex
  • #36
  • Jan 6, 2008 2:55pm Jan 6, 2008 2:55pm
Quoting rsq955
How about trading 4hr charts or longer................it will give you less wipsaws and will help teach you dicipline. I think that the 4hr chart is the min. you should look at.Also you wont trade as often.......that can be a good thing, beleive it or not. good luck man


rsq955

I will advice all friends.. better look at Daily Charts.. it gives you clear picture...
  • #37
  • Jan 6, 2008 3:06pm Jan 6, 2008 3:06pm
Quoting spank
I'm a newbie and just like to know on avarage how many months/years of exprience did you guys get to be come profitable month after month? and what kind of meterials/book did you read? took any classes?

thanks

It's not measured in months or years,,,,,,It's measured in hours......how many hours of busting your tail studying, searching, exposing yourself to the markets.....I'd say if your busting your tail 20+ hours a week on the above, you can trade profitably with no help in a couple years.......if your sitting around looking for someone to give you something....you will never make it.....most people treat trading like tiddly winks...when it is really warfare.....you have some guy in a 2,000 suit and all the experience trying to take your money, because till he does, he hasn't made any for himself.....you'd better be prepard and ready or you're just financing his Manhattan appartment......
  • #38
  • Jan 6, 2008 6:35pm Jan 6, 2008 6:35pm
Quoting mimiforex
Hello,

I have been reading the trading stuffs used by the participants that participated in the 2007 automated trading championship, where the winner was able to turn a 10k account into 130k within 12 weeks!

I am just wondering how to get any of those expert advisors designed by any of these participants tested and trusted by metaquotes. Perhaps the 2006 top 20 participants will be fine.

Any expert advisor that makes good use of neural networks just like the 07 winner used will look very promising. Really want to be profitable, have already lost $3k.

Thanks
mimiforex
You can't just look at the winners. There's someone every week that turns a $1 lottery ticket into millions.... I've tried this probably 50 times and it never worked for me.

So, look at the list of participants in those contests, ranked by their return. There are a few that make money, either because they were familiar with their EA's inner workings and with the market, and were able to correctly set the inputs to maximize profit, while trading with too much risk, OR, they were very lucky to guess the correct settings. Along with those few that make money, there is a long long list of those that lost money.

Learn to trade.
  • #39
  • Dec 11, 2017 11:06pm Dec 11, 2017 11:06pm
Quoting spank
I'm a newbie and just like to know on avarage how many months/years of exprience did you guys get to be come profitable month after month? and what kind of meterials/book did you read? took any classes? thanks
All things considered, that is a decent inquiry however with a muddled answer. It relies upon how much time you have committed to concentrate the market. On the off chance that you have a few hours per day I would state it is likely conceivable to wind up noticeably predictable inside 6 a year yet everyone's expectation to absorb information is unique. Me by and by, I've been examining putting and forex specifically for around 2 1/2 years. What I've found is that it is a significant intriguing ride. I additionally required some serious energy off once in a while just to make tracks in an opposite direction from the market. I knew I would return after I got it out of my framework.
  • #40
  • Dec 12, 2017 4:13am Dec 12, 2017 4:13am
Quoting spank
I'm a newbie and just like to know on avarage how many months/years of exprience did you guys get to be come profitable month after month? and what kind of meterials/book did you read? took any classes? thanks
I took 10 years. Started in 2006. Paid $5k for a chart patten known as 123 top/bottom. The system requires me to count pips and ignoring fundamentals like news, sessions economy of time.

I made 100% return in 2013 and succumbed to greed when I turn that into 80% in just one month.

Sadly I blew 4 accounts up to date.

In 2017 I made an effort to reduce my trading activities and plow myself to create a derivatives of myself. Investing in knowledge and selling that via books and online courses.

Trading is a profession that requires zero ego and zero fear of failure and rejection. The only upside is seeking a better return for your time and effort via daily or higher time frame.

I never understood the reason why during my time the articles that stress the need to trade the daily chart. I could have missed out on opportunities on the lower time frame and scalp tiny bit of cash. Then I realised the frustration that comes with it.

Turn trading into an investment of skill and beauty. Turn that minuscule amount of savings into an investment that beats the bank. Then inflation.

If I knew better. I would have focus on something fulfilling tangible like writing books and selling.
You're going to pay a price for every bloody thing you do and don't do
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