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Why do traders use so many indicators?

  • #341
  • Feb 20, 2020 3:14pm Feb 20, 2020 3:14pm
Quoting viptrading
{quote} EUR is extremely weak right now in comparison to USD. If you look across all the USD major pairs the same thing is happening, this has to do more with what is going on with the USD rather than what is going on with EUR, however the recent news about Brexit and GBP leaving the European union most likely is the driving factor behind the EUR current weakness. At this point it is not a good idea to look for long opportunities for this pair, and to stay bullish USD until further notice. It also may be too late to enter short here, for me at least....
Actually, thinking about it, regarding this thread, has anyone taken Longs EURUSD within last few days and got stopped out? This would be a classic way to explain the stop outs...using naked charts.
  • #342
  • Feb 20, 2020 3:20pm Feb 20, 2020 3:20pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Thanks for the analysis. Your post 335 explained to Jetdude that his indicators did not give the reason for price being where it was..just coincidence, and I agree with that. But taking that further, my honest opinion is that strength/weakness is also based on previous data. Means nothing. Supply demand zones, pivots... all an illusion. Again my chart could well be lacking data due to IPad, but there is one significant reason for price to be where it is or has been today. George would have seen this a mile off. M.
Everything is past data. We are forever living in a constant push forward of time. Nothing is truly "now". The thing is though, that once you understand the current value of a currency and compare it to another using your own research based on fundamental and economic data, along with price action. You will be able to make a decision whether or not the price should go higher or lower from your entry point because it is either currently undervalued, or overvalued. That is what makes someone a good trader, being able to predict price movements because you see the current price is not equal to the actual value, and that is why price moves. So strength and weakness is technically "past data" but the key is being able to discern how valuable or reliable that data is, and how that may effect future price.

It's not easy to explain, and you will never be right 100% of the time no matter how much research you put into a trade or any investment, but that is another topic.
  • #343
  • Feb 20, 2020 3:25pm Feb 20, 2020 3:25pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Actually, thinking about it, regarding this thread, has anyone taken Longs EURUSD within last few days and got stopped out? This would be a classic way to explain the stop outs...using naked charts.
Check out post 302 of this thread. I talk a bit about EURUSD and show how it broke below support and has not recovered since. It is not safe to look for longs here until price forms a good structure, not to mention the fundamentals.
  • #344
  • Feb 20, 2020 3:27pm Feb 20, 2020 3:27pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} Who is jet trader and why should I care....
He's the leader lol
J12
  • #345
  • Feb 20, 2020 3:35pm Feb 20, 2020 3:35pm
Let's all share our trade explorers...instead of bickering like this... Then we can have a proper discussion about indicators.

Don't want to see any money or capital invested. Just want to see consistency over a period of time....

Then discuss the indicators and how they have helped you or not helped you....
J12
  • #346
  • Feb 20, 2020 3:41pm Feb 20, 2020 3:41pm
Quoting viptrading
{quote} Everything is past data. We are forever living in a constant push forward of time. Nothing is truly "now". The thing is though, that once you understand the current value of a currency and compare it to another using your own research based on fundamental and economic data, along with price action. You will be able to make a decision whether or not the price should go higher or lower from your entry point because it is either currently undervalued, or overvalued. That is what makes someone a good trader, being able to predict price movements...

Agreed, but some past data is significant.
Can you post an H4 chart for me with a line on today’s low.
And a second at 1.08209.....again on IPad chart, I maybe seeing this wrong.

M.
  • #347
  • Feb 20, 2020 3:52pm Feb 20, 2020 3:52pm
Quoting j12
Let's all share our trade explorers...instead of bickering like this... Then we can have a proper discussion about indicators. Don't want to see any money or capital invested. Just want to see consistency over a period of time.... Then discuss the indicators and how they have helped you or not helped you....


Let's take it one massive step further, shall we.

Let's all go Live Stream on YouTube and expose Trading Account Balances in Real-Time. That will cut straight to the heart of the matter. A Trade Explorer having outstanding mathematical returns and no real Growth of Capital is worth little.

In fact, let's take it even one more step further than that. Let's (simply) declare an FF Live Stream Traders Challenge, create a new FF thread for this purpose, then embed each Trader's live stream into that thread. It would be tremendous fun and highly educational - especially for the New Traders onboard.

This would show Real Traders putting Real Capital behind their trading decisions. It will show which Trader's have the most faith in their trading decisions. It would show which Trader's know how to Grow Capital. It would show precisely how they Grow Capital. It would show far, far more than a "rate of return" or "number of lifetime pips." It would show the difference in "rate of return" and/or "life time pips" as it relates to Real Growth of Capital. Growth of Capital trumps Rate of Return and Number of Past-Life Pips Netted.

I'm down for that. Who else is down?
  • #348
  • Feb 20, 2020 3:58pm Feb 20, 2020 3:58pm
To participate one would only need:

1) A YouTube Account
2) Live Streaming Software
3) A new $3,000 Bucket Shop Account
4) The ability to execute trades

Let's just go do what Mr. Bill O'Reilly instructed us to do:

Inserted Video


Simple, really.
  • #349
  • Feb 20, 2020 4:00pm Feb 20, 2020 4:00pm
Before the cock dangling starts would someone post up a plain EURUSD chart with the two lines on that I mentioned thanks.
  • #350
  • Feb 20, 2020 4:02pm Feb 20, 2020 4:02pm
Quoting moodybot
Before the cock dangling starts would someone post up a plain EURUSD chart with the two lines on that I mentioned thanks.

eurusd chart
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSDH4.png Size: 18 KB
Uncertainty of the market must be embraced and accepted.
  • #351
  • Feb 20, 2020 4:05pm Feb 20, 2020 4:05pm
Quoting slb
{quote} eurusd chart {image}
Thanks mate, can you change to daily and zoom out so that we can see back to March 2017;

cheers
  • #352
  • Feb 20, 2020 4:10pm Feb 20, 2020 4:10pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Thanks mate, can you change to daily and zoom out so that we can see back to March 2017; cheers
march the space between the two black vertical lines
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSDDaily.png Size: 32 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSDDaily1.png Size: 28 KB
Uncertainty of the market must be embraced and accepted.
  • #353
  • Feb 20, 2020 4:12pm Feb 20, 2020 4:12pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Thanks mate, can you change to daily and zoom out so that we can see back to March 2017; cheers
seems price comes to close the gap
Uncertainty of the market must be embraced and accepted.
  • #354
  • Feb 20, 2020 4:19pm Feb 20, 2020 4:19pm
Quoting slb
{quote} seems price comes to close the gap

Well done. Targets attract price. Not indicators. Never have, never will.
Georges thread.
Best on FF...it’s in the recycle bin.
The best usually are.

M.
  • #355
  • Feb 20, 2020 4:24pm Feb 20, 2020 4:24pm
I'll put my two cents worth in - I have a trading 'friend' who ONLY uses H4 candles for analysis and will not use even the simplest EMA's or trendline - her record for three weeks is about 20 losing trades in a row yet she refuses to acknowledge there is a trend against which she is dogmatically trading short by virtue of her interpretation of H4 candles - I use a few ema's and TL's and in the same period have 10/10 winners going long on the same pair with step up trades etc - based on entries provided by the ema's and a couple of modified stochastics -
EMA's and basic indicators have a place - to ignore them entirely is arrogance - they tell you far more than you will interpret from candles alone.
The more I learn the more I don't know
  • #356
  • Feb 20, 2020 4:24pm Feb 20, 2020 4:24pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Actually, thinking about it, regarding this thread, has anyone taken Longs EURUSD within last few days and got stopped out? This would be a classic way to explain the stop outs...using naked charts.

Spot on Moody, and yes George would have been watching this for weeks.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSDWeekly.png Size: 61 KB
  • #357
  • Feb 20, 2020 4:25pm Feb 20, 2020 4:25pm
Hi, Does anyone know of an EA that will close a trade when the TDI or EMA's cross against the trade? Thank you for your help
  • #358
  • Feb 20, 2020 4:29pm Feb 20, 2020 4:29pm
And, of course, anyone who happened to have a pivot on their charts would have had a ball trading price on its way downwards to its .... somewhere


But trading the TARGETS is the only thing that has made sense to me since the "good bloke" was happy to point this out ... for anybody who cared to listen (cheers George)

I like my indis to point out "current structure". This changes rapidly as targets are sought by the MM algo. Got to keep abreast of where we are and where we are headed.

This can be done naked of course, no probs.
I still like my training wheels. They work for me over & over and it's all I've got as an older bloke


I read this thread and enjoy the banter and discussions presented. But I follow me now.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSDH4.png Size: 48 KB
  • #359
  • Feb 20, 2020 4:30pm Feb 20, 2020 4:30pm
Quoting JetTrader
{quote} Let's take it one massive step further, shall we. Let's all go Live Stream on YouTube and expose Trading Account Balances in Real-Time. That will cut straight to the heart of the matter. A Trade Explorer having outstanding mathematical returns and no real Growth of Capital is worth little. In fact, let's take it even one more step further than that. Let's (simply) declare an FF Live Stream Traders Challenge, create a new FF thread for this purpose, then embed each Trader's live stream into that thread. It would be tremendous fun and highly...
How does YouTube trading work? Can you explain please??
J12
  • #360
  • Feb 20, 2020 4:41pm Feb 20, 2020 4:41pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Actually, thinking about it, regarding this thread, has anyone taken Longs EURUSD within last few days and got stopped out? This would be a classic way to explain the stop outs...using naked charts.

It would be a classic way to describe a total misunderstanding of Delta based Magnitude. Here's the chart and a Panel that explains why Long's have been getting killed of late:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSD.png Size: 87 KB



This is the start of a New Year. That means, as a Trader, you are dealing with an enormously large set of Delta based price movements that need to set themselves for the year. Since January 1st, the Leading-Short-Vega on EURUSD took off first for the year. It plunged 312 pips from the 1st through Today. The Trailing-Short-Vega plunged 310 pips over the exact same time period. That tells you the Directional flow of the EURUSD and why it has been so forceful. That can be seen in the Panel's Monthly output.

In addition, that same Monthly output in the Panel, shows 312 pips in downward Omega and the successful completion of 106% Pi. In addition to that, the Panel also shows a 442 pip downward TCD move accompanied by its own 113% Pi. What's more is the fact that the EURUSD RPD Profile's Raw value reached 0, during this same time. TripleStock now buried in single digit territory and double digit territory on the Slowest TripleStoch Monthly output (very rare).

That leaves the GMMA analysis which really put the nail in the coffin on Long trades since the 1st of January. The Slope has been so negative and so heavy that I would have never been able to call a Long more than twice in EURUSD since January 1st. Even then, calling Longs would have been something done with an extreme amount of caution. The EURUSD Stack Height output is so incredibly strong that going Long against it would have been suicide for me personally. And, the EURUSD Active Dimensions are so strong since January 1st, that I would have needed to have been really hard up for money to make Long call. Just basically, Gambling.

So, when I add all this up, if I make the correct interpretation, right now at this VERY MINUTE - would not touch a EURUSD Long trade until I see and get clearance conformation above the 1.0809 level. Even then, the EURUSD would have to come out of Long side hibernation and prove to my that it could stabilize itself before making a move higher. All of that would need to be shown to me on the Panel, before I took the trade.

Right now, the EURUSD is presenting itself as a Snap Dragon Candidate, which means, somebody is going to be snapped into tiny little pieces once this pair decides to move higher, because they are going to be unwilling to get Long and unable to see the real reasons why.

For now, the EURUSD Range will be 1.0787 to 1.0807. Ergo, its spread represents nearly 20% of its range value and nearly 5% of its expected Daily Magnitude, which means I would have a lousy 37 pip maximum ROE (Range of Error). Those are simply unacceptable trading terms in my world.

The EURUSD has been nuked right off the face of the earth - as far as I'm concerned - as a contender for Daily Use. I can still trade it, no problem. But, I need to Grow Capital. That's why I'm in the business and there are plenty of other candidates out there with Market Dynamics that look a whole lot better than this pig.

That's how I analyze a trade. Your mileage will most definitely vary.
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