Why do traders use so many indicators?

Have you noticed that nobody has posted details of their indicators and usage, no specific details ? Have it crossed your mind that what you are looking for to convince you encroach into proprietary territory ?

Wait a minute. I found a way to cancel more noise from the chart.

Update: Ultimate Noise Cancellation Chart Set-Up



I don't know how to remove more noise from this chart and still maintain my integrity, VIP. I just don't.

That's the true naked chart by definition. Just that people "shift" the definition to suit their agenda. It's already explained in earlier post.

But.. you just said that my question has been answered.. Now you are saying it hasn't because it is not of my business??

I just asked a simple question buddy. I want to get back to the main topic.. I just want to understand the logic of people who uses indicators. No bad intentions in my questions mate..

Cheers.

Wait. I found one more tweak for noise cancellation.

Update: Ultimate Zero Noise Chart



Well, that's it. I can't remove the entry or take profit lines. I could take out the chart's Y-axis and X-axis, but then I'd lose date and price. This is just about as naked as I can make it, VIP. What do you think about it. Does it qualify as a Non-Indicator trade now?

Honestly, it is pretty bizarre for me as I can't even see the Bid/Ask jumping around on the screen. You know, hopping around like two bunny rabbits and stuff like that. I can see the Bid, but it is now in pure Black and White. Maybe that's how it should be, you know. Maybe, I've had it wrong all these years.

I dunno. Maybe I could get used to this kind of view. But, how would I know where and when to enter the Market, VIP? This is a pretty raw screen. This is downright terrifying, quite honestly.

Don't you think we need at least a little noise?

Do yourself a favour, read this thread from post#1 if you genuinely seek the answer. Put on your logical brains when you read. The rest is up to you.

So salty.. haha

Well mate, it is 11 pm here in my country.. Would you be so kind to tell me which post is it?? or which page at least??? I gotta wake up early tomorrow

@JetTrader Would you be so kind to answer my question in #Post 253 ? I really would like an exchange of opinions, have a normal conversation.. that's all.

If this has been answered by you already, please be so kind to indicate which post or which page you answered my specific question.

Thanks.

People should learn to read a naked chart before using indicators. Otherwise you'll likely spend your time chasing indicators instead of learning to read and understand what the market is doing. Its all there in the price.

Agree 100%

Traditional indicators are not needed when one has a deep, full comprehensive understanding of the psychology of the markets.

Absolutely, agreed 100%. Except I extend that further by saying: It is all in the raw OHLC numeric values.

That’s fundamental in trading.. and no one knows which side the market maker is taking... no one. Certainly not an indicator...

If this is true we are all guessing and gambling.

I've been answering this question in different ways during my participation in this thread. They don't work. They Indicate. They show only what the designer asked them to show. They are not capable of showing anything more. If the design is useful, then what the Indicator shows will be useful. The Indicator's usefulness will be in what it is capable of showing independently in isolation, or collectively in aggregation with other trading Tools.

An Indicators output can also be used as Input to a different Indicator. This is the basis for a broader I/O based System where Ordered Data (Metadata) can be used to do further (more in depth) exploration of normal market behavior. This is an advanced step in both Indicator Design and Trading System Design. This is not the rocket science that trolls think they are belittling. This is how real Engineering works at the level of Intelligent Design when Performance based Systems are invented. The basic and most fundamental principle of real engineering for dynamic performance based systems is the concept of Input/Output Management. If there is no Input, then there is nothing for the System to output.

So, the first priority when designing any Indicator is to establish your Indicator Concept. Your second priority is to establish your Theory of Use for that concept. This process contains the Indicator Math, Indicator Logic and Indicator Function(s). OHLC Data is the source for all 1st Order Indicator designs. In other words, there is a direct connection to the Market from a 1st Order Indicator. It is like taking an electrical cord and plugging it directly into 120v outlet. You are getting juice straight from the box on your wall. That box on your all is analog for the Real Market. This is a 1st Order Indicator.

There are other types of Indicators, however, this answer deals with the matter at the level of your question.


All of that you posted is contained here:



This is the essence of the StealthIndicator Concept. All data points are connected. That was the underlying "Indicator Theory" (see above answer given). The next step was to develop a Theory of Use for that Indicator Theory, that all data points are connected. This is the essence of how to establish the creation of a new Indicator Design. You start with a Theory and then you Proof that Theory through Core Research to further develop and refine a Use Case that can be seen repeating itself in the History of the OHLC data in the pic.

All of the concerns that you listed as "Inputs" to the Market, would naturally be present in numeric form within the OHLC data. So, if your Indicator design uses raw OHLC data as its primary Input, then the Output of your Indicator will contain all the concerns you mention above - naturally - numerically - and eventually Mathematically when you begin to extend that Indicator's design into the development of Trade Logic. Trade Logic is different than Indicator Logic, however. Just to not confuse.


What do you see in the current trade that was mimicked in the Indicator? What makes you "think" is the Research you do and the results you get from forward testing that aligns itself with the Core Research. That's what makes you "think." You "think" because you've done the "Research" and the Research was born out in the results you obtained from observations of trades made according to the Theory you put forth.

Using Indicators properly is a classic case of reliance on Core Research. And, this is what separates the Traders from the Gamblers. The Trader is taking Researched Risk that has been quantified and restricted based on empirical evidence that came through Core Research. The Gambler unleashes a torrent of Hope riding on every mouse click.

We are not Gamblers. We Are Traders. We do Homework. We Structure our Trades logically and empirically. We don't fly by the seat of our pants hoping and praying. We engage the market at the level of empirical evidence for everything we do. That's a Trader. The rest is bull.

Psychology of the Markets is fully contained as data within a well designed bespoke Indicator design. In other words, since the domain of the market = the market and all psychology involves the market, then all psychological inputs to the market are also = to the market. To extend, there can be no market outside the market itself. All market data is fully contained within the market.

New information comes to the market routinely. However, that information, though it may be "new" along the X-axis, it is also normative for the market. This excludes (and always will exclude) Genuine Black Swans. A genuine Black Swan is the only real wildcard I can think of in FX. It is the one thing you just can't see coming. There are Gray Swans and other Swans of various colors and hues that can be seen or partially detected before they impact the market as "new" input. However, a true Black Swan cannot be seen before it impacts by definition. Else, it would not be Black. The Stealth Swan.

However, there is a way (even) to deal with the Black Swan, making trading (what I call) Near Zero Risk. I call it the SwapCycle and it requires meticulous execution in order to achieve a near zero risk profile.

because people dont know what they dont know and do not want to admit it. instead relying on assumptions made(indicators) to create a theoretical hypothesis to support their cause.

Final Update for the night: The Absolutely Noise Free Chart



The only way I can think of to get this chart any cleaner, is for the target to be struck. That way, both the Buy line and TP line goes away - leaving a truly Blank Black Chart. Short Scalpers have fun the floor is now yours - but be careful. Enjoy!

Draw 0. Unrealized Net +107 pips. Target 199. RR 199. Probability 99.9% (as I calculate it)

Have a nice night and trade well.

Of course all market data is fully contained within this Fractal market. That goes without saying.. But where you are incorrect is Black Swans. If you study your charts truly long enough you will see that Black Swans in the currency markets are visible.. but that only comes with a complete, deep and comprehensive understanding of the Psychology of the market... Swiss or Yen.. both as visible as the sun. Just because you can not see it my friend does not mean others cant.

The market is nothing but an algorithm. Precise to the pip. News, Black swan grey swan all a part of the algo.

Thank you George for opening my eyes and enlightening me to the true reality of these markets ! Forever indebted my friend !

Hi JT,

I am glad you are able to leverage off my work. Good luck on your 40 mil journey.