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Do you use stoploss?

  • #341
  • Dec 10, 2019 6:07am Dec 10, 2019 6:07am
Quoting ronald_fsm
Dear traders, I want to ask you questions about trading: 1. Do you use stoploss or not? 2. Why do you use stoploss and why you don't? 3. How many pips do you use your stoploss? thanks anyway
1. Yes, always. In different ways actually. First a SL per trade. Besides that I like to use time based SL and total account SL as money management (protection).
2. Admit your faults. The best trading lesson I have ever learnt is to cut your losses and let your winnings breath..
3. That is comepletely dependent on your strategy. For Scalping the pips are less tham for a day trend strategy. It is hard to generalize...

Succes!
  • #342
  • Dec 12, 2019 6:32am Dec 12, 2019 6:32am
Those are great rules to trade by, I completely agree!
  • #343
  • Dec 13, 2019 12:33am Dec 13, 2019 12:33am
stoploss must be observed unconditionally.
  • #344
  • Dec 14, 2019 2:13pm Dec 14, 2019 2:13pm
Is it true that having a stop loss or take profit inside the terminal, that brokers have these systems set up that increase the spread when they are getting close, just to take some more money from you and/or delay trade close? I heard it is better to use some EA to hide the stop losses and take profits and even entries. Not sure if it's just rumors. Can someone confirm this?
  • #345
  • Dec 16, 2019 3:39pm Dec 16, 2019 3:39pm
I use stoploss for the simple reason that the market can get influenced by unknown variables at any point..
And as for pips

  • #346
  • Dec 16, 2019 4:39pm Dec 16, 2019 4:39pm
Quoting runtherace
Is it true that having a stop loss or take profit inside the terminal, that brokers have these systems set up that increase the spread when they are getting close, just to take some more money from you and/or delay trade close? I heard it is better to use some EA to hide the stop losses and take profits and even entries. Not sure if it's just rumors. Can someone confirm this?
Perhaps this was true in dealer desk trading environments and perhaps it still is true, although with true ECN/STP brokers this shouldn't really happen. However, spread may widen at logical locations where stops may be placed as these are typically locations where failed breakouts and breakouts will occur, both of which draw additional volatility, and with increased volatility, typically spreads widen. Either way, if this is of a great concern to you, you should trade a regulated, centralized market where there is one and only price (i.e. stocks, futures). But even that won't mean that price won't go hit your stop just above the last swing high or just below the last swing low - there is liquidity there and those that need liquidity will move price there.

Best yet, is to determine what you would need to see in order to realize you're wrong in your position and practice closing trades manually at a loss. It is very difficult, but most will simply wait for their stop to get hit. That's at times the right thing to do, but typically, you will be aware, prior to your stop being hit, that the reason you placed your trade is no longer valid, and if your reason for being in that trade is no longer valid, you need to get out. This is tough to do as hope is a powerful emotion and elemental to our species, but logic needs to override it in order to be successful.
Small disciplines repeated with consistency lead to great achievements.
  • #347
  • Dec 16, 2019 9:54pm Dec 16, 2019 9:54pm
Quoting jmflukeiii
{quote} Perhaps this was true in dealer desk trading environments and perhaps it still is true, although with true ECN/STP brokers this shouldn't really happen. However, spread may widen at logical locations where stops may be placed as these are typically locations where failed breakouts and breakouts will occur, both of which draw additional volatility, and with increased volatility, typically spreads widen. Either way, if this is of a great concern to you, you should trade a regulated, centralized market where there is one and only price (i.e....
Much truth in your answer, thank you. Would you write up some scenarios of situations where you would consider a trade no longer valid, and thus needing to exit early? As they say, "cut losses short". I know it may be a difficult one to answer, but anything helps! I love your talking about liquidity and how markets react around certain areas.
  • #348
  • Dec 17, 2019 8:23am Dec 17, 2019 8:23am
Quoting runtherace
{quote} Much truth in your answer, thank you. Would you write up some scenarios of situations where you would consider a trade no longer valid, and thus needing to exit early? As they say, "cut losses short". I know it may be a difficult one to answer, but anything helps! I love your talking about liquidity and how markets react around certain areas.
Sure, these are from Friday on the ES. First example (ignore the horizontal lines on the chart, those are setup for today's session):

 

  1. This is not a great entry, but this a bull surprise bar breakout to new all-time highs in the ES. Given the size and strength, it could be perhaps reasonable to enter at the close of the bar (should have been long already from either of the prior to large bull bars).
  2. Stop would need to go at least below the breakout bar, if not below the low of the day (and trading size should be modified to ensure that the risk on this trade is no greater than any other trade).
  3. However, the bar after the breakout bar has terrible follow through (a large bear bar with large wick on top). At this point, you have to realize that the breakout could actually be a three pushes up / wedge, and you should try to get out at BE. ES will often let reasonable entries out at BE if you realize what's going on soon enough.
  4. If you don't realize this, a once the bear bar triggers an entry (1 tick below its low), the bull trap and wedge becomes a much high probability and you should get out there.
  5. If you failed to recognize that entry, you would need to get out after the failed high 1 followed by an outside bear bar.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: example 1.png Size: 140 KB


Example 2:

  1. Following the bull trap noted above, market broke down and created a Low 1 bear bar at the EMA for a reasonable entry short into the new trend. You are low in a possible trading range, so not the best entry, but reasonable nonetheless. Stop goes at least 1 tick above the high of the entry bar, preferably 1 tick above the high of the prior pullback high (and trade size should be adjusted so that the risk on the trade is no greater than the risk on any other trade).
  2. The trade moves in your favor and personally i would take half off once price ticks above any bar. But after you get a clear wedge and a bull bar, you have to be thinking that you may be in a trading range, with a wedge bottom and an excellent buy signal (strong bull bar closing on its high).
  3. If you miss that exit, you then have 3 consecutive bull bars, two closing on or near their highs clearly indicating a shift in direction and would need to get out at that point.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: example 2.png Size: 110 KB
Small disciplines repeated with consistency lead to great achievements.
  • #349
  • Dec 19, 2019 5:12am Dec 19, 2019 5:12am
Quoting FxTechnical
I use stoploss for the simple reason that the market can get influenced by unknown variables at any point.. And as for pips
Absolutely! I dont see any reason for not using it. It saves us from incurring huge losses. So we must use it when situation demands.
  • #350
  • Dec 19, 2019 5:14am Dec 19, 2019 5:14am
Quoting martin15
{quote} Absolutely! I dont see any reason for not using it. It saves us from incurring huge losses. So we must use it when situation demands.

depends on the style you trade theres way of not using stops.
  • #351
  • Dec 19, 2019 8:41am Dec 19, 2019 8:41am
Please elaborate? Do you mean a strategy?
  • #352
  • Dec 19, 2019 9:58am Dec 19, 2019 9:58am
Quoting mlawson71
Please elaborate? Do you mean a strategy?

hey yea theres strategies out there that you can use without a stop
  • #353
  • Dec 19, 2019 10:13am Dec 19, 2019 10:13am
If you do not use a stop loss you while eventually blow your account, or it will at the very least make you feel major pain in you account.

Not using a stop loss is reckless, and it is too risky.

You might succeed for a while, but it will fail. And then you will have to redeposit funds.


There is an exception to this, if you have proper MM and you only risk a very negligible amount of your account. Which means when you win, your wins won't be worth much. It is an exception, but a very lame one.

Use a stop loss you will thank me later.
  • #354
  • Dec 19, 2019 3:49pm Dec 19, 2019 3:49pm
Quoting Nolo
If you do not use a stop loss you while eventually blow your account, or it will at the very least make you feel major pain in you account. Not using a stop loss is reckless, and it is too risky. You might succeed for a while, but it will fail. And then you will have to redeposit funds. There is an exception to this, if you have proper MM and you only risk a very negligible amount of your account. Which means when you win, your wins won't be worth much. It is an exception, but a very lame one. Use a stop loss you will thank me later.

and what proof of this do you have? i have not used a stop all year, i have attached my prop accounts results below as well one with starting balnce 50k next 100k not once i used a stop

im not trying to be rude but im backing this up with data
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: blufx50k.png Size: 29 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 100k new.png Size: 25 KB
  • #355
  • Dec 20, 2019 8:33am Dec 20, 2019 8:33am
Quoting allinazi
{quote} hey yea theres strategies out there that you can use without a stop
I have no doubt about it. Do you prefer to use them?
  • #356
  • Dec 20, 2019 9:09am Dec 20, 2019 9:09am
Quoting mlawson71
{quote} I have no doubt about it. Do you prefer to use them?
hey yep most definitely but you really need to have a good understanding of the amount of risk you have on the account and trade size
  • #357
  • Dec 20, 2019 10:07am Dec 20, 2019 10:07am
How do you know when to exit a trade when it goes against you, how to cut your loss?

What are you going to do when it keeps going against you for weeks, I've seen how you trade. You let a trade that goes negative go, until it reverses and then you exit at around zero.

But, If the trade doesn't go back to zero, when do you stop your loss?

I know you have a stop loss, You may not put a stop loss order on the trade, But you have to have a mental stop loss.

that's why I say, you have to have a stop loss

Nolo.
  • #358
  • Dec 20, 2019 10:13am Dec 20, 2019 10:13am
Quoting Nolo
How do you know when to exit a trade when it goes against you, how to cut your loss? What are you going to do when it keeps going against you for weeks, I've seen how you trade. You let a trade that goes negative go, until it reverses and then you exit at around zero. But, If the trade doesn't go back to zero, when do you stop your loss? I know you have a stop loss, You may not put a stop loss order on the trade, But you have to have a mental stop loss. that's why I say, you have to have a stop loss Nolo.
aww ok now I get you well there comes a time where I would feel maybe I have too much size on a trade at this point I will cut some exposure on the pair,
I add in to a trade at specific points (generally good levels) I trade levels that’s my main things There are times where I need to go bigger like 2-3x my size only then I’m really going to start to concentrate on the pair
nornally cutting exposure for me will happen if we are coming to a major event I.e something like elections GBP euro exposure will be reduced

trump going to potential sign or not something on a deal I’ll cut exposure on risk pairs

but because I trade quite small I can let the market go against me a lot

but again this is something I have worked with nearly this whole year and really only started to finesse in the last 3/4 months it’s not recommended for new guys just to blast in to it. I did originally use physical stops and slowly phased it out

im merely just stating a point that one doenst need a physical stop in the system (and I misunderstood you I thought you were talking about physical stop)
  • #359
  • Dec 20, 2019 12:53pm Dec 20, 2019 12:53pm
I was not trying to be disrespectful at all, I hope you didn't take it that way.

I was just trying to make a point that, every successfull trader should have a stop. Whether it be a mental stop or a mechanical stop.

To not have a predetermined bail out plan before you enter a trade. You seem to have good money management and risk management, but most of traders out there are horrible at both.
New traders need a mechanical stop loss. Traders need to keep draw down to a minimum.

I hope you have a good weekend.

Nolo
  • #360
  • Dec 20, 2019 12:54pm Dec 20, 2019 12:54pm
Quoting Nolo
I was not trying to be disrespectful at all, I hope you didn't take it that way. I was just trying to make a point that, every successfull trader should have a stop. Whether it be a mental stop or a mechanical stop. To not have a predetermined bail out plan before you enter a trade. You seem to have good money management and risk management, but most of traders out there are horrible at both. New traders need a mechanical stop loss. Traders need to keep draw down to a minimum. I hope you have a good weekend. Nolo
don’t worry yea I just mis understood what you were saying have a good one dude
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