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Are trading costs the main reason of losses in trading?

  • #101
  • Aug 2, 2019 7:20am Aug 2, 2019 7:20am
Quoting komposter
{quote} It depends only on your expectancy. 40% will turn into 140% if your average profit is 4.5 pips: {image} And what is yours (serious trader has monitoring, of course)? {file}

You are giving an extreme example. I agree with GEfx that if this is the case then you are not a serious trader. There is no way that just reducing the trading cost by a couple of pips should raise your profit by 250%.
  • #102
  • Aug 2, 2019 7:40am Aug 2, 2019 7:40am
Where is your reply? Angry moderators deleted it?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #103
  • Aug 2, 2019 8:23am Aug 2, 2019 8:23am
Quoting komposter
{quote} Where is your reply? Angry moderators deleted it? {image}
I deleted my derisive mockery of your post. I believe it is impolite to make fun of stupid people. But to summarize, your 4.5 strategy will deliver 4.5 pips, no matter the spread. What you assume is that a lower spread will increase your testicular veracity and enable you to sit on that trade for an additional 2.3 pips. It won't. But more to the point, a 4.5 pip strategy is a loser approach. No one will achieve success by hoping to gather 4.5 pips. You will be one of the losers on FF complaining, "if only the spread were lower I'd be a winner." Anyone thinking about the spread, rather than thinking about which trade set up will run for 60 to 120 pips, is in the wrong business. Stop fooling yourself.
  • #104
  • Aug 5, 2019 8:27am Aug 5, 2019 8:27am
Quoting GEfx
{quote} I deleted my derisive mockery of your post. I believe it is impolite to make fun of stupid people. But to summarize, your 4.5 strategy will deliver 4.5 pips, no matter the spread. What you assume is that a lower spread will increase your testicular veracity and enable you to sit on that trade for an additional 2.3 pips. It won't. But more to the point, a 4.5 pip strategy is a loser approach. No one will achieve success by hoping to gather 4.5 pips. You will be one of the losers on FF complaining, "if only the spread were lower I'd be a winner."...
I'm not afraid to look stupid. Anyway, thanks for your try to exuse )
Do you have trade record with 60.0-120.0 expectancy? Or do you just dream about it?

3.7 pips expectancy is enough to make such profit, for example:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 47 KB

With 3 times higher spread the results on this account would be completely different, just believe me.
  • #105
  • Aug 5, 2019 9:39am Aug 5, 2019 9:39am
Quoting komposter
{quote} I'm not afraid to look stupid. Anyway, thanks for your try to exuse ) Do you have trade record with 60.0-120.0 expectancy? Or do you just dream about it? 3.7 pips expectancy is enough to make such profit, for example: {image} With 3 times higher spread the results on this account would be completely different, just believe me.
You can visit my trading journal here on FF for a pretty accurate view of what I do as a trader, including analysis, entries, stops and targets. Let me know if you have any questions. I'll refrain from further derogatory comments on your post, except that anyone who is looking in on this conversation, especially new traders, need to know what a pile of BS you're piling up here. Trade well, if you actually trade.
Edit: in fact, I'd be happy to provide you with a recent or current trade analysis/trading activities if you'd like a real-time example. But, I'd like to see yours here, too.
  • #106
  • Aug 5, 2019 10:32am Aug 5, 2019 10:32am
Quoting komposter
{quote} I'm not afraid to look stupid. Anyway, thanks for your try to exuse ) Do you have trade record with 60.0-120.0 expectancy? Or do you just dream about it? 3.7 pips expectancy is enough to make such profit, for example: {image} With 3 times higher spread the results on this account would be completely different, just believe me.
This is completely irrelevant without context. First of all, do you know what scalability is? How big is the account in question? Which broker is it? Do you know that myfxbook manipulates the DD consistently? Why was the account stopped?


I bet this account is a 5k max. Try this strategy on a 20k account and see what happens. You really don't seem to know how things work in FX....
  • #107
  • Aug 7, 2019 6:59am Aug 7, 2019 6:59am
Quoting GEfx
{quote} You can visit my trading journal here on FF for a pretty accurate view of what I do as a trader, including analysis, entries, stops and targets. Let me know if you have any questions. I'll refrain from further derogatory comments on your post, except that anyone who is looking in on this conversation, especially new traders, need to know what a pile of BS you're piling up here. Trade well, if you actually trade. Edit: in fact, I'd be happy to provide you with a recent or current trade analysis/trading activities if you'd like a real-time...
I can't find Trade Explorer in your profile.
Do you want me to find all your comments over the years and calculate average profit of hypothetical trades?
  • #108
  • Aug 7, 2019 7:01am Aug 7, 2019 7:01am
Quoting xtradex
{quote} This is completely irrelevant without context. First of all, do you know what scalability is? How big is the account in question? Which broker is it? Do you know that myfxbook manipulates the DD consistently? Why was the account stopped? I bet this account is a 5k max. Try this strategy on a 20k account and see what happens. You really don't seem to know how things work in FX....
Exactly! You're so right!
We shouldn't analyze just spreads, we should analyze whole trading costs including slippages and its change over the time.

This account was just near me when I was looking for an example for GEfx. I can find many other profitable accounts with expectancy less then 5 pips.
Show me please few examples of accounts with expectancy 60.0-120.0 and 1 year history at least.
  • #109
  • Edited 12:34pm Aug 7, 2019 8:35am | Edited 12:34pm
Quoting komposter
{quote} I can't find Trade Explorer in your profile. Do you want me to find all your comments over the years and calculate average profit of hypothetical trades?
Like I said, you can see how it's done by looking through my journal. There I show how I trade, how I use multiple trading accounts, and make clear that if anyone is looking for a trade explorer, they can go fuck themselves. I'm not here to satisfy anyones curiosity about performance across my accounts. I mean what the actual fuck kind of audacious asshat puts the onus on me to do extra work to satisfy your curiosity.
  • #110
  • Aug 7, 2019 1:15pm Aug 7, 2019 1:15pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Like I said, you can see how it's done by looking through my journal. There I show how I trade, how I use multiple trading accounts, and make clear that if anyone is looking for a trade explorer, they can go fuck themselves. I'm not here to satisfy anyones curiosity about performance across my accounts. I mean what the actual fuck kind of audacious asshat puts the onus on me to do extra work to satisfy your curiosity.
What biggest expectancy do you have trading H4?
  • #111
  • Aug 7, 2019 3:44pm Aug 7, 2019 3:44pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Like I said, you can see how it's done by looking through my journal. There I show how I trade, how I use multiple trading accounts, and make clear that if anyone is looking for a trade explorer, they can go fuck themselves. I'm not here to satisfy anyones curiosity about performance across my accounts. I mean what the actual fuck kind of audacious asshat puts the onus on me to do extra work to satisfy your curiosity.
I see.. No trade explorer, no account with expectancy > 60 pips, just a sharp tongue

By the way, I have found your "trading" journal (link could be very helpful yesterday).
There are many charts with your analyze, but I don't see any trades. So there are no expectancy at all. It is sad (
  • #112
  • Aug 7, 2019 9:49pm Aug 7, 2019 9:49pm
Quoting komposter
{quote} I see.. No trade explorer, no account with expectancy > 60 pips, just a sharp tongue By the way, I have found your "trading" journal (link could be very helpful yesterday). There are many charts with your analyze, but I don't see any trades. So there are no expectancy at all. It is sad (
Clearly you're an idiot. The whole journal is analysis and trades. If you can't read English, or more likely, don't understand how to trade, and can't read a chart, then I understand why you missed it. Go back to the journal. Read the words. Learn. This discussion with you has gotten off topic. I say again: no professional trader, retail or otherwise, trades for 4 or 5 pips a trade. No one worries about trading costs, except those who don't know how to trade. Tell ya what, champ. You pick a currency pair and let's compare trades. Live and real time. Right here. Your "I'm trading for 4 pips so the spread matters" vs my "target trades without a te" approach. You do know how to trade, right?
  • #113
  • Aug 7, 2019 10:08pm Aug 7, 2019 10:08pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Clearly you're an idiot. The whole journal is analysis and trades. If you can't read English, or more likely, don't understand how to trade, and can't read a chart, then I understand why you missed it. Go back to the journal. Read the words. Learn. This discussion with you has gotten off topic. I say again: no professional trader, retail or otherwise, trades for 4 or 5 pips a trade. No one worries about trading costs, except those who don't know how to trade. Tell ya what, champ. You pick a currency pair and let's compare trades. Live and...
just a couple of points you made , """ i do trade 4 to 5 pip trades live on my thread """" there is many ways to trade forex , i am a professional trader and use every way to make money from my broker short long term it all adds up , next people wanting you to prove something well to bad i say , you do not have to prove jack sht to any one but your self , good luck with your trading and keep the left hook sharp
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #114
  • Aug 7, 2019 10:31pm Aug 7, 2019 10:31pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Clearly you're an idiot. The whole journal is analysis and trades. If you can't read English, or more likely, don't understand how to trade, and can't read a chart, then I understand why you missed it. Go back to the journal. Read the words. Learn. This discussion with you has gotten off topic. I say again: no professional trader, retail or otherwise, trades for 4 or 5 pips a trade. No one worries about trading costs, except those who don't know how to trade. Tell ya what, champ. You pick a currency pair and let's compare trades. Live and...
Clearly you're very cool trader without live account. And all your posts in this topic are about nothing.
I give you the stats, but you return only unparliamentary language and stupid pictures contest.
I'm off.
  • #115
  • Aug 7, 2019 10:34pm Aug 7, 2019 10:34pm
Quoting Aussi
{quote} just a couple of points you made , """ i do trade 4 to 5 pip trades live on my thread """" there is many ways to trade forex , i am a professional trader and use every way to make money from my broker short long term it all adds up , next people wanting you to prove something well to bad i say , you do not have to prove jack sht to any one but your self , good luck with your trading and keep the left hook sharp
Of course, he should not prove.
If he went here just to say he knows everything about trading and all others are idiots.
  • #116
  • Aug 7, 2019 10:41pm Aug 7, 2019 10:41pm
Quoting komposter
{quote} It depends only on your expectancy. 40% will turn into 140% if your average profit is 4.5 pips
I can illustrate this sentence very easy — by opening and closing few deals simultaneously on two accounts: first one with 0.7 pips spread and second one with 3.0 pips spread.
Then you'll multiply difference by your annual deals number and see the difference.
  • #117
  • Aug 7, 2019 11:14pm Aug 7, 2019 11:14pm
Not wanting to get involved in any arguments or the like but sitting waiting in the Carpark for someone...

I have a few points .
1, I hate DD so having a SL at 1-2pips a touch better than BE is ok for me, I accept that now. Really I want a trade to head full profit but if it's retracing I'm happy to be closed out rather than face a negative trade reversal.
2, the problem with targeting smaller scalps ( for me at least) is that it can promote excess trading. On days where I'm picking a bit here and there the trading costs can sneak up if my success rate is low. Ideally i know i need to place my trade targeting 10pips minimum , but if PA stalls im happy to take less.
3. If I'm trading UJ for e.g., I know for me historically my return decreases once I place more than about 3 trades for the Asian session for that pair. I need to pick which side of the road I'm on and work that and not get run over changing sides.
4 I work with trading costs and accept them as a fact of life. I don't ignore them, I'm mindful of them . They don't stop me from trading.

One last point, one advantage of UJ is the low spread, normally 1pip unless news etc, and I don't trade the first 2 hours of asian as the spread is higher then
Cheers h
  • #118
  • Aug 7, 2019 11:17pm Aug 7, 2019 11:17pm
Quoting hellsbells
Not wanting to get involved in any arguments or the like but sitting waiting in the Carpark for someone... I have a few points . 1, I hate DD so having a SL at 1-2pips a touch better than BE is ok for me, I accept that now. Really I want a trade to head full profit but if it's retracing I'm happy to be closed out rather than face a negative trade reversal. 2, the problem with targeting smaller scalps ( for me at least) is that it can promote excess trading. On days where I'm picking a bit here and there the trading costs can sneak up if my success...
Thank you for your neutral post
What is your average trade volume (monthly)?
  • #119
  • Aug 8, 2019 12:10am Aug 8, 2019 12:10am
According to my (private) TE I've traded 150 lots this year. Look I'm not putting it out there that I'm successful, I spin my wheels mostly with a couple of hard crashes. It's a work in progress but pepperstone and IC makets both approx $7/lot trade. I like to trade GU periodically and have done so well, but it's spread I find is higher like 6 ?? Enough to send me back to UJ or AJ. I tried trading gold yesterday which was interesting,.and i traded the same lot size which offered a lot of bang for my buck, i think i shouldve traded a quarter of what i normally do. I TP ON a long before the break up which was annoying. Anyway, I do take trading costs into account.
Cheers h.
  • #120
  • Aug 8, 2019 12:26am Aug 8, 2019 12:26am
The transaction cost (spread & commission) is tolerable
But the worst of the worst is paying swap
it's the hidden killer..
On positive swap the broker gives you next to nothing and on negative swaps they really pig out.
It makes trading the forex the worst market to trade (in addition to the usual scams)
In addition to market risk (chance of consistent result = zero) it absolutely guarantees that you will be paying for your broker's kids college tuition (;
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