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  • #21
  • Jul 24, 2019 4:23am Jul 24, 2019 4:23am
Quoting Rmg
If you are really keen to get funded, get yourself ready for what it takes to be one. You will not find anything in this forum other than naysayers . https://www.quantopian.com/get-funded
not entirely true, there are some posts ( useful too) regarding getting funded on the forum.
but indeed, one need to get ready, not the least to be able to show a lot more then words.
not surprisingly, a lot of the posters bleed out there.
most of these threads turn out to nothing more then posts of few dreamers, and theoretics of someone who never been going down the getting funded way.
recycled here-says and 4th hand stories.

to get funded isnt that difficult really.
nor to get to 1 million+.
but to get large(r) comes to the situation what Bicarus was talking about.
that is very different ballgame to pass the 1-2M bracket, and move to 10M+
but it wont happen based on talk, based on demo, based on cent account.
and so far this thread only include one of the above only.
so go figure.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #22
  • Edited 6:30am Jul 24, 2019 6:05am | Edited 6:30am
Quoting staassis
{quote} @Bicarus, what you said about prime brokerage is interesting. Would trading via a semi-prime brokerage not be sufficient for big investors? For example, Interactive Brokers offer services to business entities and their leverage cap is higher than that at prime brokers like Credit Suisse.
you are correct to say that ibkr is semi prime. in fact many firms do use ibkr to hedge their fx exposure in other asset classes.( a point i was trying to make to TS about hedging instead of SL).. however it will not be their main broker because ibkr's forte is not fx liquidity.

a fx prime differs quite significantly from a typical prime broker, which provides margin financing for equities.
given it specializing in its specific field, fx primes has connections not just to tier 1 lps, but also to non bank ecns and dark pool liquidity, tailoring the liquidity feed to your need on the go, to suite your expected execution.. (btw do not be fooled when any of your retail brokers say that they have a prime division, most of it is bs. or they simply have a rship with a fx prime but they are not the prime..) only a handful of real fx primes left in the world.

depending on how much volume u are gonna be executing, how much AUM u have, prime agreements can be tailored to customer's needs.
typical structure will be a 4 way agreement for approved give up agreement. (at least 1 pb, 2 brokers + client). in this case. clients will usually execute on its pb fx positions, but once in awhile if client wants to execute a option trade to hedge its pb's executed position's exposure, it can do so on its other brokers(such as ibkr). pb will then handle settlement with ibkr. and then pb will settle with you or if you are a big firm, your custodian bank.

if you look at most funds. they are all relatively small in terms of the no of people they hire. because most of the backoffice work will be handled by pbs as a added service.
  • #23
  • Jul 24, 2019 8:07am Jul 24, 2019 8:07am
Thank you, @Bicarus. I have noticed some of things you have mentioned. 10 years ago, when we were trying to start a credit hedge fund, we were in touch with a few of prime brokers. Yes, they were offering back office and legal services to us. However, Credit Suisse costed $350k per year. More importantly, the prime brokers we were in touch with offered pretty low leverage (the order of 3-5). IB offers 30, on the other hand... The fx prime brokers that you mentioned, which leverage do they offer? Could you provide us with some names please? Especially since there are so few left, as you mentioned. Thanks.
  • #24
  • Jul 24, 2019 9:26am Jul 24, 2019 9:26am
Quoting staassis
Thank you, @Bicarus. I have noticed some of things you have mentioned. 10 years ago, when we were trying to start a credit hedge fund, we were in touch with a few of prime brokers. Yes, they were offering back office and legal services to us. However, Credit Suisse costed $350k per year. More importantly, the prime brokers we were in touch with offered pretty low leverage (the order of 3-5). IB offers 30, on the other hand... The fx prime brokers that you mentioned, which leverage do they offer? Could you provide us with some names please? Especially...
it is low 3-5 leverage for AUM of under 50m. can go up to 30-50 leverage depending on excess AUM and pledged execution volumes.

given that u seem to know what you are talking about, i have excluded banking institutions.

stater global markets
isam / isprime fx
saxobank
Invast
  • #25
  • Jul 24, 2019 4:42pm Jul 24, 2019 4:42pm
Quoting Bicarus
{quote} it is low 3-5 leverage for AUM of under 50m. can go up to 30-50 leverage depending on excess AUM and pledged execution volumes. given that u seem to know what you are talking about, i have excluded banking institutions. stater global markets isam / isprime fx saxobank Invast
Thank you.
  • #26
  • Jul 24, 2019 5:59pm Jul 24, 2019 5:59pm
Quoting Bicarus
{quote} as i said. it doesnt matter if your strategy is safest on the market. unless you are trying to raise capital from mom and pop clients then go ahead. if you are looking for instituitional/corporate money. unless you can afford a prime, they wont even pick up your call. because you have no connections etc. your examples of successful entreprenures is laughable.. the people you mention provide services as a business. you may be providing a trading "service'' to your mom & pop investors. whilst not forgetting, you are not even using a prime,...
I have receipts for each trade that I make and the corresponded counterparty involved who served the liquidity. Typically an investment bank. I can execute up to 350 lots on EURUSD with minimum slippage during an US session opening using a FIX API through my broker. I have a great top of the book liquidity available for each trade and custom volume feed. The reason I decided to raise money is also because I have all the technology available to do this as everybody else here.

As I said before, unless you have sufficient capital there is little luck in trying to do any macro analysis and figuring out what other well capitalized firms are also investing in and at what exact time. You will only figure out what decision their made after the fact. Months, or years later. If you insist on believing there is a perfect, common knowledge for all participants, you can end up like all 2/3 of hedge funds who lost money in 2018. Most of them were so credible they had over $1B in other people's money.

Not having connections seems like a great excuse to not get in business. If there is anyone trying to break into this industry I don't recommend looking for connections but rather on making them as you go. If all the problems in an industry were solved from connections we would have a perfect market with satisfied investors and clients. Regardless of what business you are in.

Are you saying that stopping out is a bad strategy? I hope you are doing well on your account.

Quoting alphadude
{quote} Focus on your account peformance for the moment; don't worry about the *smart money*. It will find you !!!! it has its magical tricks of finding good performing traders. It's called *smart money* for a reason!
I agree with patience. Better to wait having your own account rather than depending on someone else's good will to give your track record to you if they feel like doing so as you would have working for a company. A track record that they can blow up at any time.

Quoting staassis
{quote} I agree with @alphadude. "Focus on the account performance". 12% is very little. It can easily go to nothing within 4 months. And I agree that you should never use statements like "My account is one of the safest investments". Then you are guaranteed being ridiculed by institutional money and raising no capital at all. My friend, how can investing with you be "safest" if you are a one-man show, not a registered LLC with at least 2 managing partners - traders? What if you raise money and have a heart attack... still having the best intentions...
Having a partnership is not what it takes to raise money. Having a big corporate structure and looking professional is usually what employees are looking for before they decide to work for a company. It's what makes them feel respected and to have prestige. I don't advise making partnerships unless you really need to. At minimum you should have 51% and complete control.

Everything that I have to offer is my track record and the ability to scale up to make a larger profit. I can reach a maximum of around $5M under management without many issues on execution. I count on my ability to persuade and convince investors that they can trust on me. This is what all of us must use.
  • #27
  • Edited 2:06am Jul 25, 2019 1:54am | Edited 2:06am
(1)
"Not having connections seems like a great excuse to not get in business. If there is anyone trying to break into this industry I don't recommend looking for connections but rather on making them as you go. If all the problems in an industry were solved from connections we would have a perfect market with satisfied investors and clients. Regardless of what business you are in."

im pretty sure you dont have any idea of what the fund management service entails.
hence am giving u insights for what it takes. Connections matter. For a start, you looking for capital is already an act of looking for connections. Ex; mom and pop investors. Well if you dont believe me. you can test it. raise couple of rounds from mom and pops. grow it 1000% and try walking into any respectable institution with your results. See where it gets you.

(2)
I have receipts for each trade that I make and the corresponded counterparty involved who served the liquidity. Typically an investment bank. I can execute up to 350 lots on EURUSD with minimum slippage during an US session opening using a FIX API through my broker. I have a great top of the book liquidity available for each trade and custom volume feed. The reason I decided to raise money is also because I have all the technology available to do this as everybody else here.


your counterparty might be a tier 1 lp. however as i said in my first post. because you are using a retail broker, you are exposing your clients to double risk.
your broker is your lp's client. not you. you are merely your rb's client. history has shown that rb's can belly flop despite having access to tier 1's (ironfx,alpari,cm to some extend if not for the bail out). that is why smart money will never be willing be a 4th party. (them>you>rb>pb>lp). ideal scenerio is you*>pb>lp.

you'll never be able to raise smart money without a PB. so with (1) connections matters. + my post to staassis, PBs are v open to customize stuff to your needs. (another example of how connections matters)

(3)
Are you saying that stopping out is a bad strategy?

Stopping out is not a bad strategy but it is not your only strategy. As stated in my first post. Investors need assurance and a risk management report.
Risk Management does not simply mean risking 1% per trade and stop losses. but scenarios of when shit hits the fan what other assets can you turn to. what is your strategy etc., your outlook for the market as a whole, determining you playing aggressive or defensive.

(4)
I hope you are doing well on your account.

Not sure if you mean it to be sarcasm but if you do execute a 35m trade, im probably one of your counterparty that will fill your order.
That said, from your return's chart (Aug'18 - Present), no rb has executed a single ticket which required splitting within LPs.

(5)
As I said before, unless you have sufficient capital there is little luck in trying to do any macro analysis and figuring out what other well capitalized firms are also investing in and at what exact time. You will only figure out what decision their made after the fact. Months, or years later. If you insist on believing there is a perfect, common knowledge for all participants, you can end up like all 2/3 of hedge funds who lost money in 2018. Most of them were so credible they had over $1B in other people's money.

Everything is cyclical. Are you saying you are smarter than hedge fund managers? Do you want to end up becoming one of them, not laying out your alt risk/hedging strategy as per point (3)? Are you certain that your "Strategy" can defy the gambler's ruin's probability.

from your return's chart timing (Aug'18 - Present). execution volume and volatility across all asset classes have been declining, when ev&v yields declines, lps cant do much, apart from booking orders. giving the impression of profitability. Lets wait and see how well your strategy holds up when ev&v picks back up and the sleeping giants awake.

Enough said on my apart. all the best.
  • #28
  • Edited 1:00am Jul 27, 2019 12:47am | Edited 1:00am
Quoting Bicarus
(1) "Not having connections seems like a great excuse to not get in business. If there is anyone trying to break into this industry I don't recommend looking for connections but rather on making them as you go. If all the problems in an industry were solved from connections we would have a perfect market with satisfied investors and clients. Regardless of what business you are in." im pretty sure you dont have any idea of what the fund management service entails. hence am giving u insights for what it takes. Connections matter. For a start, you...
Sorry for the delay but I really wanted to say that I appreciate your input. Everything you said about your perspective on this industry makes sense but for this discussion I'm afraid it can turn into an objection to raising money.

I just wanted to make sure we are discussing this topic for the right reasons that is: Given the technology available to develop an independent track record who else in these forums has raised money before?

Even though all your concerns are really accurate they could be perceived as a lazy man's excuse into getting in business. In a broad definition, nothing that involves not having access to technology, or having physical resources, or connections should be considered an objection to anyone committed to raising money as an ambitious person. There is hardly any high figure business where you won't encounter skepticism from people.

I have just checked your profile where you claim to be currently active working in an investment bank as a market maker trader. And I imagine that there is probably a lot you could address about how do your typical clients do. If you're allowed to, and you don't mind, are you part of the typical Sales and Trading branch in the bank where you cultivate your own client base? If so, how many of them are hedge funds, and what are the typical problems they encounter on filling orders?

To answer your concerns about my strategy: I'm supposed to trade lot sizes that can be quickly filled and executed. So what it does is that my performance ends up having a short time exposure. When it comes what assets the account will be holding it will be mostly cash in the base currency of the account. In a liquid form so it allows this fund to be highly flexible and different than what a typical hedge fund would be as an investment vehicle. I should just complete saying that even though I compared returns to what hedge funds were producing this is actually supposed to be just a forex fund. I believe it was important to use them as metric for the industry as a whole and try to snatch a piece of those investors away from there.

Quoting Rmg
If you are really keen to get funded, get yourself ready for what it takes to be one. You will not find anything in this forum other than naysayers . https://www.quantopian.com/get-funded
I have acknowledged your input. Thanks for this resource. I just wanted to say that I was reading through it lately.
  • #29
  • Jul 27, 2019 4:35am Jul 27, 2019 4:35am
[quote=dalmeida;12406565] I just wanted to make sure we are discussing this topic for the right reasons that is: Given the technology available to develop an independent track record who else in these forums has raised money before?[quote]

I have.
But never mind.
You ignored my previous 2 posts...so clearly you aren't that interested in money.
Anyway,
Happy weekend!
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #30
  • Edited 6:53pm Jul 27, 2019 6:42pm | Edited 6:53pm
Quote
I have. But never mind. You ignored my previous 2 posts...so clearly you aren't that interested in money. Anyway, Happy weekend!

I actually agreed with you but never replied when you talked about raising money and the leverage it provides. If others could replicate your strategy why would they have you to trade for them? That is what you offer. You make investors confident that they can rely on you to exploit such opportunity in the market. I imagine these people, also, being extremely arrogant and misjudging about what it takes to develop a working strategy and the ability to adapt over the years. But you also had the input of many users on the forums liking your publication in the first page for this. You're not being ignored.

If you don't mind, could you go over how it was to close the deal? My biggest concern is not actually how I am going to get a broker and proper technology but rather on being extremely convincing and divert any skepticism. I have already a plan for this. I would never try to raise money if I didn't need to.

But myself, and user Bicarus, have been discussing a lot roughly how anyone with funds from other people would have a reputable prime broker to access the market. Consequently taking the least amount of counterparty risk. Although very important, it's not the first priority.
  • #31
  • Aug 8, 2019 5:38am Aug 8, 2019 5:38am
Quoting noterdam
Trading for yourself is also a good idea, if you are professional in this sphere, analyze market constantly and know what to do with it
But you need to learn lots of info to become pro
  • #32
  • Aug 9, 2019 12:00pm Aug 9, 2019 12:00pm
Quoting dartMol
{quote} But you need to learn lots of info to become pro
Are you referring to any specific topic when you talk about info?
  • #33
  • Aug 10, 2019 5:15am Aug 10, 2019 5:15am
Quoting dartMol
{quote} But you need to learn lots of info to become pro
Of course, and it’s available, even on trading platforms. The main is your desire
  • #34
  • Aug 10, 2019 1:22pm Aug 10, 2019 1:22pm
Quoting Zibrembo
{quote} Of course, and it’s available, even on trading platforms. The main is your desire
Maybe, got any link on such platform?
  • #35
  • Feb 11, 2020 12:03pm Feb 11, 2020 12:03pm
For starters, I would recommend that you decide on the capital you can afford for permanent employment. I think it will be quite difficult to evaluate the statistics, if you constantly deposit and withdraw money, if all your financial operations are messy - then you will not be able to make a specific plan of action and identify your mistakes and weaknesses. It is not the last thing that matters, and your desired income. In fact, you can calculate the capital/profit ratio for a month simply by analyzing your statistics for the last 5-6 months. If you haven't done it - calculate it at least approximately, because each broker has a history of financial transactions in his personal cabinet, which will help you to pick up the right amounts and more objectively orientate yourself in the current situation.
  • #36
  • Feb 11, 2020 2:49pm Feb 11, 2020 2:49pm
Quoting dalmeida
But is there anyone who took down this road to managing other people's money straight from the Forex Factory's forum?

No.

I find/found it more than challenging enough to manage my own capital over the years and never thought once about managing third-party capital. I just have no need to derive income through management of third-party money when my growth and profits from running my own capital have been more than sufficient to satisfy my goals as a Trader.
  • #37
  • Last Post: Apr 8, 2020 1:12pm Apr 8, 2020 1:12pm
At times like this, the only thing that comes to mind is that money brings you even more money, they must work for you. Remember, in the book, Rich Dad, poor Dad. Really rich people do not buy luxury goods or spend money on entertainment, at least not in the first place. In order to multiply your wealth, money must be constantly launched, that is, to invest in stocks, real estate, business projects, so that you constantly make a profit from different sources. And in principle the presence of at least some capital is already a potential for excellent earnings. The main thing here is to approach it wisely. Because anyone can lose money, and in any quantity.
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