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  • #5,181
  • Jul 23, 2019 2:20am Jul 23, 2019 2:20am
Quoting skyway
{quote} By this, it also mean those strategies which use LTF ADR settings with arbitrary curve fitted percentages is not part of your BD_ADR strategy.
@skyway -- in a sense, yes, that is true. I mean there is nothing preventing you from using 16% ADR or 22.7458% ADR -- and, visually, it seems to work. But there is no physical basis for 16% ADR -- it's just a number.

The strategy that @bishopdotun created is based on ADR. And then people started experimenting with different numbers. Whether it is "part" of the BD ADR strategy that depends on what you mean by "part".

If the same indicator supports 22.7458% ADR then I guess it is part. But when @bishopdotun was thinking about creating such a strategy was he thinking about basing it on 22.7458% ADR, I'm guessing probably not.
  • #5,182
  • Jul 23, 2019 2:26am Jul 23, 2019 2:26am
Quoting skyway
{quote} A paradigm shift. This all comes down to rate of change in whatever the reference timeframe.
@skyway -- we're still in the middle of version 1. Why are we now talking about paradigm shifts? Do people consider the current strategy a failure such that it now requires a paradigm shift?

Guys -- the search is over. Let it go -- or at least I am. No more searching, paradigm shifts for me. This is the one for me.
  • #5,183
  • Jul 23, 2019 2:31am Jul 23, 2019 2:31am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @skyway -- we're still in the middle of version 1. Why are we now talking about paradigm shifts? Do people consider the current strategy a failure such that it now requires a paradigm shift? Guys -- the search is over. Let it go -- or at least I am. No more searching, paradigm shifts for me. This is the one for me.
Your BD_ADR strategy is based on D1 and W1.

Yet majority of the posted test results and actual manual trade results are not based on D1 and W1.

Instead LTF ADR settings and arbitrary curve fitted percentages are used in all cases.

That's the dichotomy that we observe on this thread and RBA.

Note - my above posts today and earlier do not indicate bias towards LTF. Just stating what is.
My bias, if any, is LTF gives quicker result in shorter cycles.
Whatever the timeframe, the result remain the same unless proven otherwise.
  • #5,184
  • Jul 23, 2019 2:36am Jul 23, 2019 2:36am
Quoting skyway
{quote} Your BD_ADR strategy is based on D1 and W1. Yet majority of the posted test results and actual manual trade results are not based on D1 and W1. Instead LTF ADR settings and arbitrary curve fitted percentages are used in all cases. That's the dichotomy that we observe on this thread and RBA. Note - my above posts today and earlier do not indicate bias towards LTF. Just stating what is.
Yes and there is no need for this to be the case if we simply use the ATR and stop this what percentage works best
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
  • #5,185
  • Jul 23, 2019 2:46am Jul 23, 2019 2:46am
Quoting skyway
{quote} A paradigm shift. This all comes down to rate of change in whatever the reference timeframe.
Quote
This all comes down to rate of change in whatever the reference timeframe.

Nope. ADR. "Average Daily Range". If you want to use other time frames there is nothing to prevent you. But you're just playing for the sake of playing. Clearly the BD strategy is sufficiently "robust" that it can accommodate these sorts of variations. I have no objection to people using whatever settings they want -- it's just that I'm not interested in juking around with a zillion different variations just because you can think something up. I can also think of many variations -- I've been thinking of variations to strategies for nearly 3 years. It's hard to stop. But I'm stopping here. I want to get this one to work well and then I'm done. My next project is to solve world hunger...
  • #5,186
  • Jul 23, 2019 2:50am Jul 23, 2019 2:50am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} {quote} Nope. ADR. "Average Daily Range". If you want to use other time frames there is nothing to prevent you. But you're just playing for the sake of playing. Clearly the BD strategy is sufficiently "robust" that it can accommodate these sorts of variations. I have no objection to people using whatever settings they want -- it's just that I'm not interested in juking around with a zillion different variations just because you can think something up. I can also think of many variations -- I've been thinking of variations to strategies for...
I stopped long time ago. I recommend your next project to look into hate that arise from the clash of our entrenched core beliefs - humanity requires this more urgently to prevent mass self-destruction than global hunger.
  • #5,187
  • Jul 23, 2019 2:52am Jul 23, 2019 2:52am
Quoting Robot Trader
{quote} Hi R4M, In the link can you please tell me what these parameters are doing BD Time Frame Percent ADR https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=12379838#post12379838 What are these parameters calculating? are they using an ADR average and then taking a percentage of that average to scale it to suit the LTF that we are looking to trade? ....
I guess the argument over whether to use ADR% or not won’t end. I am not about to convince you but I will make something clear. I drop to LTF to time entries. I could as well just stick with W1 on D1 from the original strategy. However, I found that I could get more entries. I could split the total lot I want to allocate to small lots. So instead to shooting all at once on D1 when price could actually drop further, I will scale into the trades as CC signals develop on LTF.

So using LTF isn’t part of the original strategy. It’s part of MM.

Now I have tried trading this from LTFs as well. Where instead of drawing the center line from W1, I draw it from D1 & H4. From several testing, it does have value. And because I do miss trades on W1 because price didn’t poke above the ADR bands, I thought why not draw the bands on LTF with lower ADR% and get an approximate fit.

Now the same adjusting effects on ADR applies to ATR. Reason is there are 16 M15 bars in 1 H4 bar. So the analogy of empty-half full-full will apply. We never know the price movements. In fact spikes on H4 will have more profound effect on the amplitude & width of the bands than spikes on D1.

So, whether you use ADR% or ATR, i strongly believe that there is no significant difference between the two. @Swingman is addressing this argument already. I will watch on the sidelines where that leads.
  • #5,188
  • Jul 23, 2019 2:57am Jul 23, 2019 2:57am
Quoting skyway
{quote} Your BD_ADR strategy is based on D1 and W1. Yet majority of the posted test results and actual manual trade results are not based on D1 and W1. Instead LTF ADR settings and arbitrary curve fitted percentages are used in all cases. That's the dichotomy that we observe on this thread and RBA. Note - my above posts today and earlier do not indicate bias towards LTF. Just stating what is. My bias, if any, is LTF gives quicker result in shorter cycles. Whatever the timeframe, the result remain the same unless proven otherwise.
@skyway -- first of all -- @bishopdotun was the clever one who put 1 + 1 together.

The direction of the strategy got pulled toward LTF because people are greedy and wanted more trades -- okay. Remember, at first we resisted and locked the indicator at W1 / D1 but then I relented because I didn't want to get into the business of dictating how people use it.

It's because the strategy is so robust you can fiddle with the settings and it can continue to perform well under other conditions. Intellectually, the strategy is based on ADR. Empirically, you can fiddle around and also have it work at LTFs.

Suppose I have a Porsche -- I can take it to the race track and beat the crap out of your Corvette. But I can also take my Porsche to the grocery store to buy toothpaste. Does that mean the engineers at Porsche designed it to buy toothpaste -- I suspect not. But can it be used to buy toothpaste? Sure, why not...

The BD Strategy is now my Porsche. I want to drive it on the race track. You guys can use it for toothpaste.
  • #5,189
  • Jul 23, 2019 3:02am Jul 23, 2019 3:02am
Quoting skyway
{quote} I stopped long time ago. I recommend your next project to look into hate that arise from the clash of our entrenched core beliefs - humanity requires this more urgently to prevent mass self-destruction than global hunger.
Quote
hate that arise from the clash of our entrenched core beliefs

@skyway -- dude -- that's the history of the human race. Solving world hunger would be much easier...

Sort of a distraction -- not to get into evolution versus creationism (though they can certainly co-exist). The fact that humans clash may actually be advantageous. Suppose you had two sorts of civilizations -- one composed of sheeple that follow masters, and one that is constantly in tension trying to survive and find a better way -- even at the expense of being selfish. Over the course of a million years, which civilization do you think would still be around? The one composed of sheeple or the one that was in continuous tension?

In other words -- tension (and variations of it) may actually provide an evolutionary advantage.
  • #5,190
  • Jul 23, 2019 3:07am Jul 23, 2019 3:07am
Quoting bishopdotun
{quote} I guess the argument over whether to use ADR% or not won’t end. I am not about to convince you but I will make something clear. I drop to LTF to time entries. I could as well just stick with W1 on D1 from the original strategy. However, I found that I could get more entries. I could split the total lot I want to allocate to small lots. So instead to shooting all at once on D1 when price could actually drop further, I will scale into the trades as CC signals develop on LTF. So using LTF isn’t part of the original strategy. It’s part of MM....
I will just say this, having a percentage of a long term average to make it look like a short term average will never be the same as just working out the average for the short term, the Math's just don't work.

Your Strategy uses two TF's that are calculated based on their true averages the Weekly and Daily, but trying to make them fit by use of percentages to the LTF's is like trying to fit a Square peg into a round hole.
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
  • #5,191
  • Jul 23, 2019 3:07am Jul 23, 2019 3:07am
At the moment, I suggest we fix the current EAs & Indis. Per the timeline we set, @R4M needs to fix that this week.

Once we get the EAs & Indis working properly then we can look at the next stage of development which could include ATRs.

The problems with development projects is that ideas keep flying and none ever gets perfected.

I welcome the ATR argument if that's the flavour some people want to use. May be that's where they would find their edge or lead them on the path to another edge. For the moment, I say, let's focus on bug hunting in the current version and fix them. So while that is banking pips on your account, we dig deeper into this ATR thing that Skyway & RT are so much in love with. its 2 vs 2 for now.

Ciao.
  • #5,192
  • Jul 23, 2019 3:10am Jul 23, 2019 3:10am
Hi Robots4me,

Just a request. Could you build an Alert Notification into the R4M-BD-ADR indicator? You already have Alert build into it. Anyway only if it is not too much work for you!!

Thanks,

ASR
  • #5,193
  • Jul 23, 2019 3:15am Jul 23, 2019 3:15am
Bugs

The shot below reveal some bugs

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot 2019-07-23 at 09.10.00.png Size: 1.1 MB


- The EA is not trading off CC signals despite my settings
- The indicator is painting way too many signals which are not from CC. They look to me like the original recipe at work.
- Per CC signal, I should have max 5 trades. On this shot, there are 10

I dropped the settings to H4 on M1 and 15% ADR just to hunt bugs. No one should copy this.
  • #5,194
  • Jul 23, 2019 3:24am Jul 23, 2019 3:24am
Quoting Robot Trader
{quote} I will just say this, having a percentage of a long term average to make it look like a short term average will never be the same as just working out the average for the short term, the Math's just don't work. Your Strategy uses two TF's that are calculated based on their true averages the Weekly and Daily, but trying to make them fit by use of percentages to the LTF's is like trying to fit a Square peg into a round hole.

Quote
Your Strategy uses two TF's that are calculated based on their true averages the Weekly and Daily
@Robot Trader -- actually one TF -- Daily. We don't compute a weekly -- we simply draw a weekly "bar" on a daily chart.

Quote
but trying to make them fit by use of percentages to the LTF's is like trying to fit a Square peg into a round hole.
Yes -- sort of. The reason I say "sort of" is because people are having success at LTFs. And the reason is not because @bishopdotun intentionally designed it that way but, rather, because the strategy is so robust it can survive these variations and still perform well.

So, from a design standpoint, yes, it's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. But forex is very empirical and, as it turns out, with some fiddling you can get the square peg to fit.
  • #5,195
  • Jul 23, 2019 3:25am Jul 23, 2019 3:25am
Quoting Robot Trader
{quote} I will just say this, having a percentage of a long term average to make it look like a short term average will never be the same as just working out the average for the short term, the Math's just don't work. Your Strategy uses two TF's that are calculated based on their true averages the Weekly and Daily, but trying to make them fit by use of percentages to the LTF's is like trying to fit a Square peg into a round hole.

That's your perception. There is no proof.

I have looked at the charts enough to see when reversals could occur. If not, I have my DD limits. And I hug my margin closely.

The point is there is no perfect strategy in FX. If there were, it would eventually leak, everybody would be rich and the concept of market and the strategy would eventually fail.

Dig into ATR further and you will arrive at this point. The research into algo trading has been on for years. Algos still fail despite huge investments from banks. I will watch on the sidelines while you guys pursue it. I know @R4M is generous. He would probably give us the ATR option at some point after we fix the current versions. But I doubt if you would get any better results than what we have now.
  • #5,196
  • Jul 23, 2019 3:43am Jul 23, 2019 3:43am
Quoting bishopdotun
Bugs The shot below reveal some bugs {image} - The EA is not trading off CC signals despite my settings - The indicator is painting way too many signals which are not from CC. They look to me like the original recipe at work. - Per CC signal, I should have max 5 trades. On this shot, there are 10 I dropped the settings to H4 on M1 and 15% ADR just to hunt bugs. No one should copy this.
@bishopdotun -- below are what I am currently seeing for GBPCAD-M1 using Consecutive Candles using both 10%ADR and 15% ADR:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPCAD-M1-CC-10ADR.png Size: 23 KB

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPCAD-M1-CC-15ADR.png Size: 22 KB


Now -- my version has a few bug fixes, which may account for why mine don't have all the purple and blue dots. I'll release an updated version tomorrow -- I'm still working on the "server time" issue.

Also notice how our 15% ADR differ and you have a few more trades than me. I bet this is related to the "server time" issue that results in your ADR being smaller than mine -- hence, more trades.
  • #5,197
  • Jul 23, 2019 3:49am Jul 23, 2019 3:49am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} {quote} @Robot Trader -- actually one TF -- Daily. We don't compute a weekly -- we simply draw a weekly "bar" on a daily chart. {quote} Yes -- sort of. The reason I say "sort of" is because people are having success at LTFs. And the reason is not because @bishopdotun intentionally designed it that way but, rather, because the strategy is so robust it can survive these variations and still perform well. So, from a design standpoint, yes, it's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. But forex is very empirical and, as it turns out,...
Hi R4M,

BD referred to our discussion has being an argument, I was only ever trying to get you to understand the difference between using ADR% and ATR no % within the LTF's. I now believe you understand, but you still feel ADR% fits all, but based on other EA's that I have developed it is the ATR that works better on the LTF's.

Anyways lets move on.

Regards

RT
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
  • #5,198
  • Jul 23, 2019 3:50am Jul 23, 2019 3:50am
Quoting ARSpips
Hi Robots4me, Just a request. Could you build an Alert Notification into the R4M-BD-ADR indicator? You already have Alert build into it. Anyway only if it is not too much work for you!! Thanks, ASR
@ARSpips -- actually they have been added, but the text description is wrong -- which is a bug. Good catch. This will be fixed in the next version.
  • #5,199
  • Jul 23, 2019 3:58am Jul 23, 2019 3:58am
Quoting Robot Trader
{quote} Hi R4M, BD referred to our discussion has being an argument, I was only ever trying to get you to understand the difference between using ADR% and ATR no % within the LTF's. I now believe you understand, but you still feel ADR% fits all, but based on other EA's that I have developed it is the ATR that works better on the LTF's. Anyways lets move on. Regards RT
@Robot Trader -- no way did I consider it an argument. I think @bishopdotun used that word because we weren't in agreement. And look what came out of it -- realization that server-time is an important issue. And that's the way it often works. You go 'round and 'round about one thing and out of nowhere you solve another problem. And I have no problem going 'round and 'round with you as long as you have the patience. I understand I'm wrong about 50% of the time even though I may write as though I know more than I do. It's partly because that's my nature to play devil's advocate to see how strongly you can back up your statements and if your argument is strong then I'll say -- okay, you're right and I'm wrong -- and we've just now solved a problem and move forward.

All I want is to get it right -- I don't care how we get there.
  • #5,200
  • Jul 23, 2019 6:37am Jul 23, 2019 6:37am
I don't think it's a bug. That's because it's still in progress. I've studied a lot of reverse order changes. That's less than 10% of what I've told you before. ADR is part of a square, not a whole trend So when the big frame moves, it's bound to generate a lot of signals.
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