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What actually works.

  • #41
  • Oct 13, 2006 12:24pm Oct 13, 2006 12:24pm
my 2 pips on the topic...

In the first 12 months of my FX adventure i spent nearly 9K on mentorship. In hindsight i am going to state that every penny i spent, and every moment in the live traning and study sessions were worth it. Would not trade my experiences over my first 18 months for any other. In my analytical, research oriented personality i needed such an environment to set the wheels in motion and get the light bulbs turned on upstairs.

I never really thought of asking my mentors for live statements as there were many of us trading in demo profitably, and i suppose it was also a matter of etiquette, I don't ask people about their income, and would not answer such a Q myself...that is how i was raised (and i was raised in a family w/lots of $$ and holdings; autos, yachts, vacation homes...you get the idea. I think it is a cultural thing not to ask such a Q in my sphere - all you've got to do is look at their obvious wealth...so i don't ask...).

On the gurantee thingy? IF someone were to state mater of factly that they "guranteed" YOU would make money, that would make them responsible for your success and/or failure. Most sane people would never place themselves in either the giving or receiving end of that arrangement.

That said, i am really no where in my thinking that what i'm doing is going to replace my income any time soon, and really, that is not my goal. I have set a time (now about 6 years out in time frame) that I plan on going full time trader and ditch the job. For my goal/plan, i am right on target. Even though when getting involved in FX in 2005 i was duped into believing there was "easy" money to be made, once i realized the error in that idea, i settled into studying (about 6+ hours M-F) and lots of forward demo trading and some live trading.

Don't get bumed out if this adventure turns into a journey that takes a lifetime. There was a great article somewhere here by Van Tharp that said something to the effect of being sure you stop and smell the roses and enjoy the ride along the way.

Cheers,
Thom
  • #42
  • Oct 13, 2006 12:28pm Oct 13, 2006 12:28pm
Quoting hidethereal
Why would anybody just give it away if they had the answer to all your questions?
They probably wouldn't so if they won't how can you ever hope to find out the answers for yourself?
  • #43
  • Oct 13, 2006 12:36pm Oct 13, 2006 12:36pm
Quoting schoe
They probably wouldn't so if they won't how can you ever hope to find out the answers for yourself?
By making a ton of mistakes and learning from them.

It's the bitter truth but your going to make mistakes when trading, it's the lesson that you get from the mistake that makes it worth it or not.
  • #44
  • Oct 13, 2006 12:52pm Oct 13, 2006 12:52pm
Quoting schoe
Thanks for your contribution but its not that simple.
Where do you take profit when it is rising.
Where do you cut your losses.
Where do you gain the edge to overcome the spread.
How do you know when it is best to stand aside because of whipsaws?
Nobody has said on this thread yet. I am making a ton of money,i've just give up my day job, use this method and I guarantee you will as well.
Why is that? ........

Don't take this the wrong way, but all the questions would be answered if you actually went and read up instead of asking for a free lunch. No idea what you expect to find by lingering instead of just starting off.
People here will just list more and more stuff and it will become an endless discussion. Results only come from learning and applying. There is not going to be some sort of "sign". Experience and hardship are the foundation of any achievement.

Like I said, I would recommend Price Action(start with pins e.g.) and Vegas(4h Tunnel Method). Nobody is forcing you to believe anything, but you're also not going to be spoonfed success. That lies and comes only from self-improvement. Sorry to sound so harsh, but that's what it is.
Refusal to explore things by yourself basically is just paraphrasing or suggesting that what you really seek is an excuse to say nothing works and walk away.
Know what you want and pursue it, but do not make excuses to yourself or others.
Again, no offense and sorry to sound so harsh, but this exactly what life is about. Weighing options, making choices and standing up for them.

My best wishes to all of you,

SeekingLight
Trust price. Know yourself.
  • #45
  • Oct 13, 2006 12:54pm Oct 13, 2006 12:54pm
Quoting summitfx
It's as simple as going long when the currency is rising and going short when the currency is falling. Any system or indicator you use will only be profitable if you use it coreectly. Ever notice how all of the indicators rise and fall with price!This is my contribution~hope it helps!
Man, you are one of the smart
I told also few months ago, to dont look to much indicators, because when you watch these on charts, they all look good...but not because they are, but just because they always adjust to the price, and its easy to be tricked and think : " yes! this indicator works! they price went down and the indicator also ! wow"

What is this story about playing against their customer ? could you tell me a bit better ?
Thanks
  • #46
  • Oct 13, 2006 12:56pm Oct 13, 2006 12:56pm
I never really thought of asking my mentors for live statements as there were many of us trading in demo profitably, and i suppose it was also a matter of etiquette, I don't ask people about their income, and would not answer such a Q myself...that is how i was raised (and i was raised in a family w/lots of $$ and holdings; autos, yachts, vacation homes...you get the idea. I think it is a cultural thing not to ask such a Q in my sphere - all you've got to do is look at their obvious wealth...so i don't ask...).

Thom -

Trading forex is about one thing only - making money. It is no more rude to ask a mentor for a live statement than it is to investigate return rates on a mutual fund. How else could one determine "obvious wealth" with respect to trading (unless you had the good fortune to trade with a mentor 1-1, side-by-side).

The frustration with mentors and system vendors will disappear when the self-proclaimed gurus start backing up claims with live statements.
Chance favors the prepared
  • #47
  • Oct 13, 2006 1:04pm Oct 13, 2006 1:04pm
Quoting schoe
Thanks for your contribution but its not that simple.

Where do you take profit when it is rising.

Where do you cut your losses.

Where do you gain the edge to overcome the spread.

How do you know when it is best to stand aside because of whipsaws?

Nobody has said on this thread yet. I am making a ton of money,i've just give up my day job, use this method and I guarantee you will as well.

Why is that? ........
If I wanted to become a successgul architect I couldn't just grab a pencil, a ruler, and some paper and design a building. I would have to learn what it takes to actually design the building, and then learn to design it so that people chose my design over other architects. Selling my designs and see them built, admired and making a profit would be the reward. I would be a successful architect.

Trading Forex isn't really too different: You need to learn the trade of trading! Until you do you loose. Some people never learn and continue to loose, some people think it's easy and loose.

I think to be successful you need to realize that trading Forex professionally is a job you need to educate yourself and train for just like any other specialized profession. Why do a lot of people think they can just plop down in front of their computer and make a living without an effort?
//C
  • #48
  • Oct 13, 2006 1:16pm Oct 13, 2006 1:16pm
I guess i lucked out w/my mentors. Each are trading for a living from Futures and Forex. Asking them never came up as their success was obvious. I guess that was what i was trying to get across. The people that i have been fortunate enough to be coached by (two of them local friends) are so happy with their lives that "it" was just not a question i thought of asking. I did not sign up w/any of the mentorship classes to trade models, i signed up to glean knowledge they were despensing that i could apply and meld with my personality. This is how i have viewed my time with the private James16Group also. While there are "models" available, i'm there for all the daily info from mentors i've grown to trust. I know that FijiTrader lives on some island in the South Pacific and he got there trading Futures/Forex, his "wealth" is obvious, so i wouldn't think of asking for a "statement" to justify paying $XX a month to glean an incredible amount of knowledge from his PF.
  • #49
  • Oct 13, 2006 1:25pm Oct 13, 2006 1:25pm
Quoting cdysthe
If I wanted to become a successgul architect I couldn't just grab a pencil, a ruler, and some paper and design a building. I would have to learn what it takes to actually design the building, and then learn to design it so that people chose my design over other architects. Selling my designs and see them built, admired and making a profit would be the reward. I would be a successful architect.
But what if you did indeed design a beautifull building and once your design was complete, the building infact became Real and was all yours? Would you still sell it?

Quoting cdysthe
Why do a lot of people think they can just plop down in front of their computer and make a living without an effort?
Simple. Just ask someone for the keys {and pink slip} to their Ferrari.:
  • #50
  • Oct 13, 2006 2:20pm Oct 13, 2006 2:20pm
Quoting cdysthe
If I wanted to become a successgul architect I couldn't just grab a pencil, a ruler, and some paper and design a building. I would have to learn what it takes to actually design the building, and then learn to design it so that people chose my design over other architects. Selling my designs and see them built, admired and making a profit would be the reward. I would be a successful architect.

Trading Forex isn't really too different: You need to learn the trade of trading! Until you do you loose. Some people never learn and continue to loose, some people think it's easy and loose.

I think to be successful you need to realize that trading Forex professionally is a job you need to educate yourself and train for just like any other specialized profession. Why do a lot of people think they can just plop down in front of their computer and make a living without an effort?
You assume quite a lot. My pencil is well worn and has several years use.

I am honest enough to tell this forum I am not making money despite several years trying , mentors/courses/software etc.

What is the point of this forum if I can't ask for help?
  • #51
  • Oct 13, 2006 3:07pm Oct 13, 2006 3:07pm
Quoting schoe
Thanks for your contribution but its not that simple.

Where do you take profit when it is rising.

Where do you cut your losses.

Where do you gain the edge to overcome the spread.

How do you know when it is best to stand aside because of whipsaws?

Nobody has said on this thread yet. I am making a ton of money,i've just give up my day job, use this method,stick to the rules and you will as well.

Why is that? ........
Most of those people are not on this thread. They're trading successfully and enjoying their lives when they're not trading. Vegas is an exception. Read all Vegas writes and learn all he teaches well. If you choose not to sign up for his alerts you can still read the training in his weekly blogs on a delayed basis. Vegas displays more helpful information for free than most provide for a price. Learning what he has to offer will not come quickly as he is conveying 26 years of significant experience to those of us that have a variety of backgrounds and personal trading experiences, most of which are not good. In the VWB II Vegas said " Trading is NEVER an exact science. By its very nature it can never be this because if it were somebody would have all the money in the world within 5 years." Most of us just haven't been at this long enough and we live in a society seeking instant gratification.
  • #52
  • Oct 13, 2006 3:17pm Oct 13, 2006 3:17pm
Quoting schoe
Nobody has said on this thread yet. I am making a ton of money,i've just give up my day job, use this method and I guarantee you will as well.

Why is that? ........
Every person is different? How can you guarantee success to somebody you don't know? degree of motivation? You can't guarantee success because there is NO HOLY GRAIL . The HOLY GRAIL is your motivation.

I came to forex through 4xmadeeasy. What a HOLY GRAIL that was. After 4xmadeeasy I realized, "WOW I AM ACTUALLY GOING TO HAVE TO WORK AT THIS."

Maybe you have experienced so much B.S. out there in forex land it is hard to see anything working. Maybe you don't believe a retail trader can make a living? Maybe you believe many of us are chasing a goal that isn't even possible, that there are actually no retail traders out there making consistent profits? Vegas, Dial and James are proof enough for me that you can do it.

There is no way of verifying what anybody says here is true unless you TRY IT. And the cost of trying it is free (metatrader, demo account).

Quoting schoe
I am honest enough to tell this forum I am not making money despite several years trying , mentors/courses/software etc.
Well you have the chance now to try with the information in this forum.

if you haven't read through this James Chart Thread
you should. Your next question might be, "how do i apply this, where do I place my stops..." Keep reading, and when you don't have the answer, keep reading some more, and when you think you understand paper trade it. And if it fails go back to reading.

Cowboy, great quote from the vegas file.

Also, don't forget the vegas files.
  • #53
  • Oct 13, 2006 3:25pm Oct 13, 2006 3:25pm
I wached a video on another web site that I believe is off limits on this forum, (felix) that shows a system that uses either 30 min. or the 4 Hour and it is so simple it amazes me.

It uses 10 and 40 EMA's and when the candle is above the EMA's buy, and when below sell (with a few other rules) but it seems to be profitable as it really is just following the trend with a strategy.
If you are interested, I will see if I can direct you to this video.
PM me.
It is a system that requires you to ALWAYS be in a position and that is where the 4 hour time frame may be more suitable for those with time constraints on their forex trading.
Stan
  • #54
  • Oct 13, 2006 4:52pm Oct 13, 2006 4:52pm
Quoting schoe
You assume quite a lot. My pencil is well worn and has several years use.

I am honest enough to tell this forum I am not making money despite several years trying , mentors/courses/software etc.

What is the point of this forum if I can't ask for help?
Hello Schoe,
While I hear your frustration, there has been an awful lot of good advise given here. The thing that troubles me is that you said several years. If you don't have any ideas or opinions about what works, where to take profit, where to place stops or generally just how to trade, I don't know what you have retained over those 2 years. Maybe trading is not for you. Maybe you just need to cange your mindset and start looking to yourself for answers. Successful trader see things in their charts. Corrollations, patterns that repeat, signals etc. After enough screen time they start to jump out at you and say HEY! If this isn't happening yet, I don't know what to say. Trading is a game for wolves not sheep. Can you get your wolf on?

FXO
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #55
  • Oct 13, 2006 5:05pm Oct 13, 2006 5:05pm
Quoting FXopportunist
Hello Schoe,
While I hear your frustration, there has been an awful lot of good advise given here. The thing that troubles me is that you said several years. If you don't have any ideas or opinions about what works, where to take profit, where to place stops or generally just how to trade, I don't know what you have retained over those 2 years. Maybe trading is not for you. Maybe you just need to cange your mindset and start looking to yourself for answers. Successful trader see things in their charts. Corrollations, patterns that repeat, signals etc. After enough screen time they start to jump out at you and say HEY! If this isn't happening yet, I don't know what to say. Trading is a game for wolves not sheep. Can you get your wolf on?

FXO
You talk a lot of sense. What you say is correct. I am doing a lot thinking and going to go back to basics and start with a simple method and a very small amount of risk per pip.

While I know a lot about trading I don't know anything about winning at trading or being disciplined. So i'm going to try a very simple strategy for a while like a moving average cross and see if I can stick to it.

I am frustrated but not angry I really appreciate all the words of advice and encouragement.This is a very good site.
Thanks again, back to school for me. Apple Miss.
  • #56
  • Oct 13, 2006 5:33pm Oct 13, 2006 5:33pm
Quoting schoe
You talk a lot of sense. What you say is correct. I am doing a lot thinking and going to go back to basics and start with a simple method and a very small amount of risk per pip.

While I know a lot about trading I don't know anything about winning at trading or being disciplined. So i'm going to try a very simple strategy for a while like a moving average cross and see if I can stick to it.

I am frustrated but not angry I really appreciate all the words of advice and encouragement.This is a very good site.
Thanks again, back to school for me. Apple Miss.

Without knowing this you come across as an "emotional trader" who has been trying everything to find the non existing holy grail. That must be frustrating. I have been lucky to have a friend who has been trading Forex successfully for years. I know he makes north of $50K a year on it and only spends a few hours every day. The first thing I noticed when I saw him trading live was that he was doing "the same thing" over and over and kept loosing. I was looking at him and asked if that didn't worry him. He said: "The first few weeks I did this it did worry me having a loosing streak, but now I know it won't last for longer than I can afford". He has been doing "this thing" for at least three years. I was such a newbie that I didn't know what his "thing" was, but now I know it's similar to the bogovino system described elsewhere in these forums combined with some simple news based trading.

I am hoping to find my own way at some point, but have no illusion that it wll come floating down the river for me.
//C
  • #57
  • Oct 21, 2006 3:07pm Oct 21, 2006 3:07pm
So, what solutions can we use to make money by FOREX?

The answers are required, no information or excuses!!!
Just solutions.



Quoting schoe
Thanks for speaking the truth. I have been through a similar journey and am still looking for my Holy Grail, its rubbish when people say most systems work, because nearly all of them don't. Most people don't realise how tough it is to find something that is consistent without massive drawdown.
Quoting schoe

I read a quote from an ex employee of FXCM who said that while he worked for the company he never saw ONE account that made money overall.


QUOTE=JohnW]Shoe -


I have been trading live for 3 years. I've bought a few systems and gotten lots of free ones from this site and others. I even spent several thousand dollars for a 1-year mentorship. After all this time, here is what I have learned: I have never, and I mean NEVER found a guru/mentor/teacher that could prove that he/she made consistent income from trading, let alone supported themselves by trading (including that expensive mentor). Other than that mentor, I contacted each system seller/mentor prior to getting their system/joining to request a live account statement. Not one ever provided one. The obvious conclusion is that they are not profitable. After my 1-year mentorship, I discovered that my mentor actually consistently lost money in live trading. If you want to make the fantastic profits that so many advertise as being available, the fastest way to do it is to sell a method. Go to eBay, you will see plenty there. Their sellers are making money only by selling systems backtested for short periods of time, if at all. None are consistently profitable. What can you conclude from this? First, you quest for the system that meets your requirements is fruitless. There is no non-discretionary system that is consistently profitable. Anyone who says otherswise is a fool or a system vendor wanting your money. The fact is, fundamentals like economic reports do affect the market, and no system based on technicals alone can account for them. Second, and most important, is that NO ONE CAN TEACH YOU TO TRADE. Those that fail to realize this are doomed to spend their lives searching for the "ultimate" indicator or system. This does not mean that you can't learn to trade, just that you will have to learn on your own from the resources available to you. This will take lots of time and discretion on your part as to what does and does not work. There are no shortcuts.

The Vegas material is as good as anything out there, and you could contact him to demonstrate how profitable he is. I have, so I already know the answer (see above paragraph).

You have figured out something that should give you a major clue about systems and their vendors. None of them provide live account statements demontrating profitability. And I've heard every excuse possible as to why they won't. If you find a trader that will prove profitability by live account statements, lives soley on income from trading, and who is willing to help you, you will have indeed found the holy grail.
[/quote]
  • #58
  • Oct 21, 2006 4:54pm Oct 21, 2006 4:54pm
Theres this guy I know, 21, been trading stocks and forex professionally for the past year with a mate. Started with £15k and now he owns a £280K house which he paid all in cash and drives a very nice porche. I asked him once to tell me what he does. If I knew the answer I wouldn't be typing this message.

There are people there making money trading forex and they are not clever than most of us. Don't lose hope.
  • #59
  • Oct 21, 2006 6:03pm Oct 21, 2006 6:03pm
Admittedly, I am pretty much along the same road as Schoe... having tried multiple trading systems and strategies with not many producing a result that I personally found acceptable.

My parameters were like this. Be able to be traded on EOD data, (I.e come home from work, look at the market, set up / adjust trades where neccessary and that will be it for the evening) -AND- to have my forex trading beat buying and holding blue chips stocks in the market, for the same amount of capital.

With 3 years of head banging, I tried many systems (largely Mechanical) and the common result was...
1. Worked only for short time, before considerable drawdown resulted.
2. When tested over a long time frame (I'm talking about 2 decades and LONGER here), the net gain was only in the region of 1-5%, lower Rate of return than buying and holding blue chips stocks. (13% of systems tried)
3. the other 87% of systems dispite the most rigid money Management regime still resulted in the equity curve depleting down to zero after a number of years. (This, like schoe, gets me, If your system is bollocks, no amount of psychology, money management is going to save your capital I strongly believe)

On a side note. Most Mechanical Systems it appears I believe only either work in Trending -OR- ranging markets, but not both. It the market is not fitting the system, drawdowns will result.

I then applied a descretionary element into the mix and used merely used the systems to pin point possible set ups and my results in a live demo increased a few percentage points, but was still up and down a bit (Volitile) and failed to beat buy and hold.

Right at this current point in time, my current mindset is... for someone to succeed in Forex Trading it appears to me personally that one has to possess the 'X' factor (Experience), i.e many years, and I am talking about many years experience here in the forex market to be able to make imperical decisions as to what trades to take etc.

At the moment, my investment equity allocation in Forex is now less than 3-5% (mostly only now possess a series of very small $5,000 USD accounts in Managed Forex) and shrinking as I move capital from Forex to other better performing (Long term wise) investment vehcles such as Real Estate (Both Residential and Commercial property), stocks and hedgefunds. Admittedly, I've been visiting Forex forums much less these days.

At the end of the day, I believe it is horses for courses, what works for some people may not work others and in the case of schoe and me, our strengths it appears are not in Forex trading. For me, my strengths appear to lie in Real Estate.
  • #60
  • Oct 21, 2006 6:40pm Oct 21, 2006 6:40pm
The most important aspect of trading is risk management, the trading system is only a minor part of the equation. All systems win & lose, it's impossible to predict the market, all you can do is make sure your trades are well managed. Risk mangement is independant of the system de jour (of which there are many), risk mangement works in both trending and ranging markets. This is all it boils down to really, you can trade randomly and still make money if this is what you want...
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
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