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  • #4,761
  • Jun 15, 2019 8:32pm Jun 15, 2019 8:32pm
Quoting seller9
Here is something to give some thought to when using the settings I have shown in the examples. Entry = Ball 1 Add = Ball 1 Exit = Ball 3 Do we exit on Ball 3 or maybe Ball 2? As can be seen below Ball 2 Exit would have saved us in this second trade and first trade would still have been OK. In other trades it would have gotten us out too early but we maybe would have reentered on the next Ball 1. Only a side by side test would maybe shed some light. {image}

Hi Gene how about a trailing stop?
  • #4,762
  • Jun 15, 2019 9:56pm Jun 15, 2019 9:56pm
Quoting seller9
{quote} Can you list the rules you would like to see using the Ichimoku and the Ball.
Yes I can do that, I will base the rules on the Ball system combined with Ichimoku as a re-entry system after Kumo Breakout not anything else. Your rules are nearly there, just need an update. I will post when I have revised your rules and some examples ready I expect a little bit later today after my lunch.
  • #4,763
  • Jun 15, 2019 9:58pm Jun 15, 2019 9:58pm
Quoting sosofab
{quote} Hi Gene how about a trailing stop?
We should not need a trailing stop if we have the correct Exit Rules.
  • #4,764
  • Jun 15, 2019 11:22pm Jun 15, 2019 11:22pm
Quoting seller9
{quote} Can you list the rules you would like to see using the Ichimoku and the Ball.
Here is what I believe would follow Ichimoku trading rules that I follow, I hope it's not too difficult to implement:

Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf Sample Short.pdf   131 KB | 227 downloads


PS: The AddTo rules are the same as the Entry rules.
  • #4,765
  • Jun 16, 2019 6:01am Jun 16, 2019 6:01am
Quoting seller9
Here is something to give some thought to when using the settings I have shown in the examples. Entry = Ball 1 Add = Ball 1 Exit = Ball 3 Do we exit on Ball 3 or maybe Ball 2? As can be seen below Ball 2 Exit would have saved us in this second trade and first trade would still have been OK. In other trades it would have gotten us out too early but we maybe would have reentered on the next Ball 1. Only a side by side test would maybe shed some light. {image}
By no means an expert here just general observations; exit on 3 could potentially take a couple of days or more to close in oppose to exit on 2 also the TS would lend itself to weekly trading Sunday through Friday leaving it to capture maximum pips on which basis I would still select exit on 3 and conduct weekly test to understand the level of DD that can be experienced here. Cheers
  • #4,766
  • Jun 16, 2019 7:23am Jun 16, 2019 7:23am
Quoting fairtraderuk
{quote} By no means an expert here just general observations; exit on 3 could potentially take a couple of days or more to close in oppose to exit on 2 also the TS would lend itself to weekly trading Sunday through Friday leaving it to capture maximum pips on which basis I would still select exit on 3 and conduct weekly test to understand the level of DD that can be experienced here. Cheers
I agree with that, if you check out a few charts with the Ichimoku displayed on it and use either my proposed rules or even Seller9's original rules we can expect only a small number of trades per day or even the week. The question remains though is the smaller number of trades going to be more successful than the larger number expected with the 200MA system?

BTW I'm not an expert in trading Ichimoku, but a while back I put in a lot of time into study of the better trading techniques for Forex and used it to trade for awhile manually. I have also recently being revising my interest in it for possible trading of the Daily charts manually.
  • #4,767
  • Jun 16, 2019 8:38am Jun 16, 2019 8:38am
Quoting JustUncleL
{quote} I agree with that, if you check out a few charts with the Ichimoku displayed on it and use either my proposed rules or even Seller9's original rules we can expect only a small number of trades per day or even the week. The question remains though is the smaller number of trades going to be more successful than the larger number expected with the 200MA system? BTW I'm not an expert in trading Ichimoku, but a while back I put in a lot of time into study of the better trading techniques for Forex and used it to trade for awhile manually. I...
Understood and of course we are comparing this with MA200 trendline confirmation as an alternative in upcoming tests.

Meantime and for the purpose of getting a return on investment in the short run I'm seeing the best results yet with Cycle Trader H4 daily setup as a personal preference with the objective of closing those red sea days as near to breakeven as possible to maximise weekly returns.

Hoping 6x or 6i can enhance this even further but even if doesn't I'm very grateful to Gene for inviting me into this gem of a circle back in August last year. It's been a long journey but one worth the wait.

All the best
  • #4,768
  • Jun 16, 2019 8:57am Jun 16, 2019 8:57am
Quoting JustUncleL
{quote} Here is what I believe would follow Ichimoku trading rules that I follow, I hope it's not too difficult to implement: {image} PS: The AddTo rules are the same as the Entry rules.
1) What disqualifies the red ball 1 prior to your entry shown invalid?
2) Step 6, do you mean above?
  • #4,769
  • Jun 16, 2019 9:18am Jun 16, 2019 9:18am
Quoting seller9
{quote} 1) What disqualifies the red ball 1 prior to your entry shown invalid? 2) Step 6, do you mean above?
1) You are correct the 1st red ball was the actual first Entry in the Bear sequence and would have been closed by Close above Kijun Sen with a loss, if my Rule 6) was followed. I just used the second Ball so I had space to demonstrate the Rules I'm proposing.

2) Sorry typo, yes the Rule 6) should be price above the Kijun Sen for alternate exit.
  • #4,770
  • Jun 16, 2019 10:30am Jun 16, 2019 10:30am
Quoting JustUncleL
{quote} 1) You are correct the 1st red ball was the actual first Entry in the Bear sequence and would have been closed by Close above Kijun Sen with a loss, if my Rule 6) was followed. I just used the second Ball so I had space to demonstrate the Rules I'm proposing. 2) Sorry typo, yes the Rule 6) should be price above the Kijun Sen for alternate exit.
One more question.

2) Cloud must have Dark Future (26 displacement)

So within that 26 future candle area it should be red in a short case?
So if it is green now but changes to red in that future 26 candles it is a short signal?
What if it changes back and forth within that 26 candle area, ranges.

So presently it is looking for a short but the cloud is green and say within 10 candles the cloud turns red but then after 21 candles the cloud turns green again, which color do I go with, the first red or the last green?
  • #4,771
  • Jun 16, 2019 1:57pm Jun 16, 2019 1:57pm
Quoting JustUncleL
{quote} 1) You are correct the 1st red ball was the actual first Entry in the Bear sequence and would have been closed by Close above Kijun Sen with a loss, if my Rule 6) was followed. I just used the second Ball so I had space to demonstrate the Rules I'm proposing. 2) Sorry typo, yes the Rule 6) should be price above the Kijun Sen for alternate exit.
nice trading rules for the Ichi, thank you!!

here's a situation, let say i chose Ball 4 as an exit. price only go upto Ball 3, reversed and crossed the cloud. should we have some kind of stop to protect ourselves? like the sl line that we can drag anywhere? in cases where we dont have time to check our charts.
When the internal struggle ends, everything becomes easy - Mr. Douglas
  • #4,772
  • Edited 4:50pm Jun 16, 2019 4:07pm | Edited 4:50pm
Quoting seller9
{quote} One more question. 2) Cloud must have Dark Future (26 displacement) So within that 26 future candle area it should be red in a short case? So if it is green now but changes to red in that future 26 candles it is a short signal? What if it changes back and forth within that 26 candle area, ranges. So presently it is looking for a short but the cloud is green and say within 10 candles the cloud turns red but then after 21 candles the cloud turns green again, which color do I go with, the first red or the last green?
The Dark Future generally only the 26th displaced Cloud color is considered, so we don't worry about the color swapping around before that. So as long as the Cloud Color is Red at the 26th displacement then the Short is clear to go. I'll try and find an example during today, I'm looking for a signal just occurring so I can show you what I mean. If the Cloud changes color during the trade that would normally mean you pulled back beyond the Kijun Sen anyway and the trade would be closed.

PS: From a coding point of view the future Cloud color can be found by not displacing the Senkou SpanB and Senkou SpanA and requiring the faster Senkou SpanA to be below the Senkou SpanB value for a short, a bit like two MAs, does that make sense? Here is a picture showing the cloud not displaced and you can see what I mean:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Selection-2019-06-17-07:47:39.png Size: 128 KB


Now we can see clearly when the cloud is green we can go long and red we can go short.
  • #4,773
  • Jun 16, 2019 4:13pm Jun 16, 2019 4:13pm
Quoting lananpips
{quote} nice trading rules for the Ichi, thank you!! here's a situation, let say i chose Ball 4 as an exit. price only go upto Ball 3, reversed and crossed the cloud. should we have some kind of stop to protect ourselves? like the sl line that we can drag anywhere? in cases where we dont have time to check our charts.
That is why I proposed the second rule for Exit condition: to exit trade when price closes the wrong side of the Kijun Sen. With the other rules we have Price will always cross the Kijun Sen before it get's to the cloud, so there is no SL requirement.
  • #4,774
  • Jun 16, 2019 4:35pm Jun 16, 2019 4:35pm
Quoting seller9
I didn't get much testing done this week with the 200 ma as other things came up. Next week I hope to get in some serious testing with the 200 ma TS for direction and also going back to an oldie from the past and try the Ichimoku for direction in a TS head to head with the 200 ma. This would be a separate TS as I don't want to put to many things in the same TS as it would only cause confusion. Here are some screen shots of what the Ichimoku will look like when used in place of the 200ma. The Ichimoku will be part of the TS so no separate indicator...
Hi Gene,

First off, it all looks great and I have a feeling this will change the consistency somewhat. I have been testing using the RSI for direction and that has made a bit of a difference but still a bit hit and miss but definitely keeps you out of some trades. I think this and the 200ma will be a great addition!

With regards to the add-on trades, will you still have the ADR add-on's for trades that go against you or would they just sit in DD waiting for either an opposite signal to close out or possibly another signal in the right direction to add-on?

Thanks, Matt.
  • #4,775
  • Jun 16, 2019 4:59pm Jun 16, 2019 4:59pm
Quoting JustUncleL
{quote} The Dark Future generally only the 26th displaced Cloud color is considered, so we don't worry about the color swapping around before that. So as long as the Cloud Color is Red at the 26th displacement then the Short is clear to go. I'll try and find an example during today, I'm looking for a signal just occurring so I can show you what I mean. If the Cloud changes color during the trade that would normally mean you pulled back beyond the Kijun Sen anyway and the trade would be closed. PS: From a coding point of view the future Cloud color...
OK, thats all I wanted to know, no problem finding the last cloud color at the 26th displaced cloud.

Looks like I will have a test of this setup ready to go after the new week starts, that will be 3 tests then, 200ma, original Ichimoku and your settings. All other settings will be the same for all tests.
  • #4,776
  • Jun 16, 2019 5:01pm Jun 16, 2019 5:01pm
Quoting mightymatt
{quote} Hi Gene, First off, it all looks great and I have a feeling this will change the consistency somewhat. I have been testing using the RSI for direction and that has made a bit of a difference but still a bit hit and miss but definitely keeps you out of some trades. I think this and the 200ma will be a great addition! With regards to the add-on trades, will you still have the ADR add-on's for trades that go against you or would they just sit in DD waiting for either an opposite signal to close out or possibly another signal in the right direction...
Will still have the other things as shown in a previous post of version 6, ADR adds and adds when trade is positive triggered by a new Ball in same direction, all able to be selected in the settings.
  • #4,777
  • Jun 16, 2019 5:06pm Jun 16, 2019 5:06pm
Quoting seller9
{quote} Will still have the other things as shown in a previous post of version 6, ADR adds and adds when trade is positive triggered by a new Ball in same direction, all able to be selected in the settings.
Hi Gene,

Thanks for the reply and sorry I had missed that previous post!

Thanks, Matt.
  • #4,778
  • Jun 16, 2019 5:33pm Jun 16, 2019 5:33pm
Quoting JustUncleL
{quote} That is why I proposed the second rule for Exit condition: to exit trade when price closes the wrong side of the Kijun Sen. With the other rules we have Price will always cross the Kijun Sen before it get's to the cloud, so there is no SL requirement.
OK, take a look at this screen shot and the rules so far in place and see if they are what you want.

This would have been a slight loser as the Kijun Sen Exit would have taken you out very quickly.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Example_1.gif Size: 66 KB
  • #4,779
  • Jun 16, 2019 5:38pm Jun 16, 2019 5:38pm
Winning Trade Example:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Example_2.gif Size: 57 KB
  • #4,780
  • Jun 16, 2019 5:53pm Jun 16, 2019 5:53pm
Quoting seller9
{quote} OK, take a look at this screen shot and the rules so far in place and see if they are what you want. This would have been a slight loser as the Kijun Sen Exit would have taken you out very quickly. {image}
That is correct to what I proposed and yes that trade would have been a looser because of the extra exit Rule, that might have been expected there though because it was a big Pull Back. Price closing the wrong side of the Kijun would be my normal exit, there is an alternative that can also be used if the Kijun Rule proves to be too quick: Close price goes beyond the last Fractal High level for short (Fractal Low for long) or price Closes in the cloud.
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