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The Volume Detective 411 replies

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  • #3,001
  • Jun 14, 2019 1:32pm Jun 14, 2019 1:32pm
Quoting parisboy
{image}
@parisboy -- nice. This is much better than the charts you were posting with all the Envelope bands.

Around the middle of the chart there was a 'Long position Action Signal' that you did not follow-up with a SELL. Why did you choose not to SELL?
  • #3,002
  • Jun 14, 2019 1:39pm Jun 14, 2019 1:39pm
Quoting nunez1
HI Robots4me, the new MM IRUTM indicator disappears when I change TF, I know its suppose to be use only in the 15m TF but is it suppose to disappear when I change TF?. Thanks for all your hard work
@nunez1 -- yes, that is by design. It uses an M15 TMA equivalent for the M1 TMA. Doesn't an Alert box pop-up when the chart is not M15?

The reason I'm going with the M15 TMA equivalent to the M1 TMA is because the M1 TMA requires so many more bars. For example, if the MaxBars on an H1 chart was 1000, then you'd need 60000 M1 bars to display the M1 TMA. The chart would then run out of memory and crash.

I've decided to go with M15 for now because:
1. @Nih98 shared the M15 TMA settings that are the equivalent for M1 TMA
2. The M15 TMA fits nicely within the ADR -- which just seems right to me.
  • #3,003
  • Jun 14, 2019 1:44pm Jun 14, 2019 1:44pm
Quoting parisboy
Some Envelopes specialists underlines the fact that most of the time Price Action can be represented and modelized as a Sine Wave ! Very Lazy Traders dream that Price Action repeats endlessly the same Sine Wave - but it is just a fantasy ! Notice that Sine Waves are NOT of the same order, nature, degree. {image} {image}
@parisboy -- please tread carefully -- you're beginning to convert me

As a Lazy Trader I'm too lazy to read your read to figure out the answer to my question -- do you use an indicator to draw the waves?

BTW -- I agree those are waves, but they are not true Sine waves -- at least not like the ones I learned about in Trigonometry in the previous century.
  • #3,004
  • Jun 14, 2019 1:44pm Jun 14, 2019 1:44pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @nunez1 -- yes, that is by design. It uses an M15 TMA equivalent for the M1 TMA. Doesn't an Alert box pop-up when the chart is not M15? The reason I'm going with the M15 TMA equivalent to the M1 TMA is because the M1 TMA requires so many more bars. For example, if the MaxBars on an H1 chart was 1000, then you'd need 60000 M1 bars to display the M1 TMA. The chart would then run out of memory and crash. I've decided to go with M15 for now because: 1. @Nih98 shared the M15 TMA settings that are the equivalent for M1 TMA 2. The M15 TMA fits...
Runs far smoother, the only thing I've come across that may not be intended are the following lines across the chart:



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  • #3,005
  • Jun 14, 2019 1:45pm Jun 14, 2019 1:45pm
Hi R4M,

I was thinking of another filter to add to your indicator which is TIME, when we see a Spike,which will look like a Wick on a Candle dependent on the TF you are viewing it on. This means the Spike didn't fall within the body of the candle (the Open and Close) it was either a High or Low of that candle, so the Spike is really like an arm reaching out to grab something very quickly in relationship to the main body.

So when we look at Top & Bottoms, we see the Spikes reaching past these areas and grabbing the SL's for liquidity, but the body of the candle closes back below these Top & Bottoms because they have grabbed what they wanted.

With the indicator IRUTM and your Top & Bottoms Indicator placed on the same chart is there any evidence showing the MM's reaching out and grabbing the SL's through seeing visible Wicks and if so when this happens how many time does the Market change direction and start a reversal.

This Spike on the M1 TF must have happened within a very short Time period for it to show as a Wick on the upper TF's, so is there a relationship that can be measured in Time for how successful a reversal will be.

Example: If PA moved above and below a known Top & Bottom within say 5 M1 candles would we see a reversal X amount of times, does Time play any part in knowing where the Market will go too next?

Just food for thought.

Regards

R.T.
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
  • #3,006
  • Jun 14, 2019 1:51pm Jun 14, 2019 1:51pm
Quoting YoungET
{quote} Runs far smoother, the only thing I've come across that may not be intended are the following lines across the chart: {image}

@YoungET -- by any chance had you previously been using the MM-FXRSI-MomentumIndi.ex4 indicator? Those lines may be left-over from that indicator. That's a good bug -- I'll fix it. Thanks.
  • #3,007
  • Jun 14, 2019 1:54pm Jun 14, 2019 1:54pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @YoungET -- by any chance had you previously been using the MM-FXRSI-MomentumIndi.ex4 indicator? Those lines may be left-over from that indicator. That's a good bug -- I'll fix it. Thanks.
No I don't use the standalone FXRSI, and they only appear/disappear when IRUTM is attached/removed from the chart, doesn't happen to every chart though so not sure of the cause.
  • #3,008
  • Jun 14, 2019 1:56pm Jun 14, 2019 1:56pm
Quoting Robot Trader
Hi R4M, I was thinking of another filter to add to your indicator which is TIME, when we see a Spike,which will look like a Wick on a Candle dependent on the TF you are viewing it on. This means the Spike didn't fall within the body of the candle (the Open and Close) it was either a High or Low of that candle, so the Spike is really like an arm reaching out to grab something very quickly in relationship to the main body. So when we look at Top & Bottoms, we see the Spikes reaching past these areas and grabbing the SL's for liquidity, but the body...
@Robot Trader -- the long answer to your question -- "Yes".

I've been thinking along the same lines. One sticky issue is the indicator that computes MTF TOPS / BOTTOMS is rather CPU-intensive, so incorporating it into IRUTM would create quite a CPU and memory hog. I've also been thinking about dividing functionality into different indicators that each get attached to their own chart. Turns out indicators on different charts can "talk" to one another and share data through a mechanism called "EVENTS".

I'll think about this some more over the weekend. Thanks...
  • #3,009
  • Jun 14, 2019 1:59pm Jun 14, 2019 1:59pm
Quoting YoungET
{quote} No I don't use the standalone FXRSI, and they only appear/disappear when IRUTM is attached/removed from the chart, doesn't happen to every chart though so not sure of the cause.
@YoungET -- Hmmmmmm. Okay I'll be on the look-out for this. I did mention it was still a work in progress, right? But I am glad you've started to use it and share some feedback. I'm only one set of eyes and, so, it is nice to know you're there as a safety-net. Thanks...

EDIT: Actually, I just thought of something else. I probably don't see them because I use a black background. Those lines may be left-over from the ADR indicator that I removed.
  • #3,010
  • Edited 2:54pm Jun 14, 2019 2:01pm | Edited 2:54pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @parisboy -- please tread carefully -- you're beginning to convert me As a Lazy Trader I'm too lazy to read your read to figure out the answer to my question -- do you use an indicator to draw the waves? BTW -- I agree those are waves, but they are not true Sine waves -- at least not like the ones I learned about in Trigonometry in the previous century.
@Robots4me, no useless indicator was used ! My coding machine is my hand.

Only Paint was used to hand drawn not true "sine waves" .

In this matter I agree with "George" and the magic educational power of hand drawing patterns, trends, resistance, support , cycles, waves etc

PS ALL REQUESTS BY LAZY TRADERS FOR SPOONFEEDING WILL BE DENIED
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  • #3,011
  • Jun 14, 2019 2:19pm Jun 14, 2019 2:19pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @parisboy -- nice. This is much better than the charts you were posting with all the Envelope bands. Around the middle of the chart there was a 'Long position Action Signal' that you did not follow-up with a SELL. Why did you choose not to SELL?
@Robots4me, I assume you talk about this chart.

The Top was cut for an unknown reason, sorry.

we can see 2 possible positions for selling in a and b.

you have also a second (or secondary - pyramiding ?) entry possible in c. after the congestion area (green ellipse) entering is possible WHEN Price Action goes higher than the last previous Top
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  • #3,012
  • Jun 14, 2019 2:50pm Jun 14, 2019 2:50pm
Quoting parisboy
{quote} @Robots4me, I assume you talk about this chart. The Top was cut for an unknown reason, sorry. we can see 2 possible positions for selling in a and b. you have also a second (or secondary - pyramiding ?) entry possible in c. after the congestion area (green ellipse) entering is possible WHEN Price Action goes higher than the last previous Top {image}
Yes, I'm interested in this too as an entry point when a possible reversal level has failed.
  • #3,013
  • Jun 14, 2019 3:09pm Jun 14, 2019 3:09pm
Quoting parisboy
{quote} @Robots4me, I assume you talk about this chart. The Top was cut for an unknown reason, sorry. we can see 2 possible positions for selling in a and b. you have also a second (or secondary - pyramiding ?) entry possible in c. after the congestion area (green ellipse) entering is possible WHEN Price Action goes higher than the last previous Top {image}
@parisboy -- nice. Yes, I was referring to that chart.

I like this -- a lot. With regards to selling at 'a', I would have had to use a fairly large SL in order to survive that continued move upwards, right? This is the same issue with all "spike hunting" strategies, right? How do you deal with 'a'-type signals? Do you use any type of "filter" to distinguish between 'a'-type and 'b'-type signals?
  • #3,014
  • Jun 14, 2019 3:13pm Jun 14, 2019 3:13pm
Quoting parisboy
{quote} @Robots4me, I assume you talk about this chart. The Top was cut for an unknown reason, sorry. we can see 2 possible positions for selling in a and b. you have also a second (or secondary - pyramiding ?) entry possible in c. after the congestion area (green ellipse) entering is possible WHEN Price Action goes higher than the last previous Top {image}
@parisboy -- another question.

What is the basis of the "Sine" waves? Are they related to market sessions in any way? Or do you simply attribute them as further proof of an MM algorithm operating behind the scenes, sort of like target levels and liquidity gaps?
  • #3,015
  • Jun 14, 2019 3:14pm Jun 14, 2019 3:14pm
Quoting nigpig
{quote} Yes, I'm interested in this too as an entry point when a possible reversal level has failed.
nigpig,

Trading Envelopes is simple and logical, but much more complex than the simplistic reversal system.

Because the key question is : is it a reversal ? then the next question is: is it a false positive ?

Envelopes give you a good to very precise estimation of where Price Action can go . Then you can calculate your potential Risk reward and decide if you enter or not , even if the trend is already on-going which you can not really do with Nih98 drawings - which are useful but icomplete.

IMHO just a good sensibilization or entry point in Envelopes Trading and Channel Anlysis
  • #3,016
  • Jun 14, 2019 3:22pm Jun 14, 2019 3:22pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @parisboy -- nice. Yes, I was referring to that chart. I like this -- a lot. With regards to selling at 'a', I would have had to use a fairly large SL in order to survive that continued move upwards, right? This is the same issue with all "spike hunting" strategies, right? How do you deal with 'a'-type signals? Do you use any type of "filter" to distinguish between 'a'-type and 'b'-type signals?
This is what I'm testing at the moment. If a fails you have to rely on the sl. But if you have a large stop loss you can hedge at the point of failure and ride to b where the hedge is taken as a profit offsetting the loss. Then short at b but close both at a lower target.
  • #3,017
  • Jun 14, 2019 3:32pm Jun 14, 2019 3:32pm
Quoting nigpig
{quote} This is what I'm testing at the moment. If a fails you have to rely on the sl. But if you have a large stop loss you can hedge at the point of failure and ride to b where the hedge is taken as a profit offsetting the loss. Then short at b but close both at a lower target.
@nigpig -- sure, but then every winning trade is offset by a losing trade. That losing trade is equivalent to paying a huge, huge spread for every trade. I don't have any evidence to back up this statement, but my sense is that it is better to take an occasional loss than to hedge every trade.
  • #3,018
  • Jun 14, 2019 3:48pm Jun 14, 2019 3:48pm
Quoting parisboy
{quote} nigpig, Trading Envelopes is simple and logical, but much more complex than the simplistic reversal system. Because the key question is : is it a reversal ? then the next question is: is it a false positive ? Envelopes give you a good to very precise estimation of where Price Action can go . Then you can calculate your potential Risk reward and decide if you enter or not , even if the trend is already on-going which you can not really do with Nih98 drawings - which are useful but icomplete. IMHO just a good sensibilization or entry point...
Quote
Because the key question is : is it a reversal ? then the next question is: is it a false positive ?
@parisboy -- that's one and the same question.

I think the same issue applies for any reversal-type strategy. With IRUTM I'm thinking a good filter can help distinguish between true and false reversals. Alternatively (or, in addition), we could go with a large SL. I think Envelopes / Sine waves would have to deal with the same thing, right? I mean, both approaches see the same spikes and both approaches need to deal with false positives.
  • #3,019
  • Jun 14, 2019 3:50pm Jun 14, 2019 3:50pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @nigpig -- sure, but then every winning trade is offset by a losing trade. That losing trade is equivalent to paying a huge, huge spread for every trade. I don't have any evidence to back up this statement, but my sense is that it is better to take an occasional loss than to hedge every trade.
But it is not every winning trade that is hedged in this way only 1 in 4 or so that break away from the reversal to continue in trend. Then there will be be a percentage that result in profit. Something I'm trying to evaluate currently. I do admit that it increases complexity.
  • #3,020
  • Jun 14, 2019 3:51pm Jun 14, 2019 3:51pm
A lazy simplistic tool for simplistic lazy traders.
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