(binned per thread starter’s request) MM (Money Maker) Detective

@moodybot -- we've already spent 5 months shooting ourselves in the arse and going round and round in circles. And that's with your help. How could it get any worse?

@parisboy -- finally!! You finally posted something I can understand.

There's your smugness again, do you really think I need to trade such an ambiguous method to make money from Forex and before you took on board this method was you a losing trader, or did you have Strategies in place that made you money.

@moodybot -- good post -- thanks.

feel to comment on this one, bcos i truly think it may benefit you Steve ( and maybe others too)...

"Why am I punished with treasure maps?"
you may see it that way.
when in school, learning math, after the basic stuff, things start to get a little fancier.
nothing extreme, of course, but comes up something like this as well.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)

working out 2 unknowns.
what you see as a punishment, can very well be your next level exercise....yes, perhaps some trial and error is there, but you should have the basic knowledge to fill all blanks, and come up with a working solution.
after all, if you accept for fact that George has a good, working, ie. profitable method, then the final result is known, and one variable less to work with, right?

let me give you another perspective, that you will find is closer to home:
when you made your MM_detective indicator it was pretty much all lines drawn equal. ( could call it the spoon feeding phase).
then you made your MM-detective indicator MTF...and suddenly there were colors representing different TFs, and the lines were just not uniforms anymore.
your indicator became a treasure map!
should one weight the M15 lines the same as the W1 lines, or the D1 lines, or the H4 lines? YES/NO, and if YES why, if NO why not?
with the different color each automatically and obviously became different.
but did the indicator give answer when and why and how they are different and how to handle them differently if they are?
NOT.
it presented a "treasure map" for someone, anyone, who is interested, to work out the variables, by doing some research into their frequency, the likely outcomes based on the historical results in past, etc.

was it a good thing, or a bad thing?
more likely than not, anyone who was looking for a set answer why the different colors and what is their definite use, would not find one, felt frustrated, or thougth it a useless thing. anyone who thought that now has a clearer visibility to do research more depth, find it a great move forward.
probably both is right. depend on their own perspective.

"The truth is, no one except an inner circle is trading George's methodology. That's a fact."
the truth and fact is that there is no real such as inner circle.
there is/was a group of like-minded ppl spending time together, mainly listening to what George has to say.
what a fact is, that George is a generous and friendly person, who gave pretty much everyone a chat to connect up with him, and chat.
you included, multiple occasions.
and according to George, if i recall correctly, he mentioned about 100 or more traders had.
and i should probably write "traders"...as most are not traders, at wannabe traders perhaps, or not even.
what you would call the "inner circle" is in fact George, Kevin, Andy, and yes me too were chatting, and where when you have chatted with George pretty much were added to.
you could say you were right there, part of the inner circle
do you seriously think that George has shown me a whole lot more than he has shown you, in terms of chats, or his plan, or trade management?
do you think i have had something special handouts of templates or a hard cover edition of his trading approach, with rules arranged alphabetically?
NOT.
and why not 10-20-or 100 traders chatted with George regularly?
a good part, bcos a very different commitment level.
and a good part bcos a very different understanding of trading, in general.
there is levels and levels, and some just naturally realize ( probably after 1-2 chat) that they dont belong ( yet) to that same league, and/or feel comfortable or confident to grow up to it (yet).
a way, a natural selection, and often perhaps with a help from George too, in that, making one realize faster that they wouldnt last on his level of trading talk.
is that bad? is that good?
so the fact is, that by large this "inner circle" is a myth, and by large always has been.
i remember reading this reference first on George's thread, even before we ever talked, and got a similar feel that you attach to it now.
and later, when we have regular daily chats with George only i realized that what i said above, that the whole inner circle things is a mystified idea, more than anything another excuse to bring up by -oh yes- the lazy people, LOL.
Steve, with George talking to you multiple occasions, hours, and answering to your thread some, etc, you are/were about as close to the inner circle as it gets, really. George gave you time, explained you things, walk you thru examples, and did this repeatedly ( between bashing you for being lazy, and not wanting to do the work, of wasting time on wrong things, lol).

and finally,
the indicator issue.
useless? NOT.
needed? NOT

long time ago, in the school they teach me to cook and bake.
there are machines to do the chopping, and beating up the egg white or whipping up the cream, rolling out a dough, etc...
but we were not thought how to turn machines on.
everyone can do that.
but the professional cooks or pastry chefs set apart also by being able to do it the basic, simple, old fashion way too.
that is what we have learned. and i can do it, all, confidently, 28 years later too if i have to, and not feel lost without a machine.
more, it gets better. you get more creative, teach you to think more out of the box.
instead if machine broke no pastry, you learn find that if you dont have a rolling pin a wine bottle can also do the trick.
should only learn where the on/off switch is, would be lost.

yes, indicators are good. but knowing what they do, and be able to calculate/perform without indicator, if needed, is better.

well, all this above is of course reflecting nothing, but my own opinion.
happy trading!
PF

Hi Top Cover

I am not trading tonight so have plenty of time to waste being a keyboard warrior.
You have nines lines on that chart but we only really need three lines and one box. Looking at your chart bottom to top, lines 3 / 5 / 9 are close to the correct spot.
After they are drawn, Georges tops and bottom are needed but they NEVER over rule that first set.
Its better if I tell you a short story that's directly related to manipulation.

I started working on a theory back in late 2016 related to price manipulation and how the price swings between areas and creates consolidation zones. These zones act like a magnets and attract price to cluster into areas of irrelevant ADR zones. They should be dismissed.
This developed into a working strategy that answered many of my questions and provide a road map for me to travel.
Then George came along with a great thread about manipulation of price and put up great charts showing these Herd Validation Target areas and how we could profit from them. I thought this is great, this should help add to my own theory's of price control.
But they were identical to the pip to my assessment of where the action was going on my charts.
Let's take the last GBPJPY George posted in the last few weeks of a day chart back in early April. He placed a Herd Box under the action and suggested a certain directional movement would occur. The top of the box was correct to the pip but the lower line in my eyes was out by 5 pips. Precise in Georges Methods but my method uses different targets, not better or worst. I just find it interesting that the target areas are often exact or close enough. I was showing this to a team member last night, possibility the only separate team working on Georges M1 method.
Actually I was told there was another team working on the famous George's M1 spec's, good luck with that guys.

So there is no mystery in Herd Validation Behaviour to me, I know why this action is occurring, I know where it is occurring and I Know when IT MAY occur next.

The problem is finding a way to profit from this knowledge which is something I have been working on for 3 years.

So lets get to the ADR issue, price gets trapped within zones and is controlled under pressure and remains in reversal mode till the MM decides to leave. During this time, counting the ADR is of no value other than counting the size of the box in pips when a breakout occurs.
This has just occurred on GBPJPY so expect a 347 pip sell off over the next two weeks. Please DYOR because anything can occur.

To finish - Herd Validation Alert

EURJPY
USDCAD

For all the reversal M1 traders, there is only One chart to trade at present USDCAD since May 2nd, you should have NO losing Trades.

@profitfarmer -- beautiful post. It's very late / early morning in the US Northwest and I'd like to acknowledge and respond. And there is no way I could do justice to what you wrote. So, please excuse me if I cut to the chase and address only a few points. And @moodybot is right -- your patience is like few others.

All what you say is correct -- but my last college course was nearly 4 decades ago. The best way I know how to explain things is through an analogy. If I'm not feeling well I'll go to a doctor, he'll perform an exam and then provide a report. He doesn't suggest that I revisit my Biology texts from years ago, he doesn't require that I either learn or re-learn. Our "unwritten" understanding is he tells me what's wrong and then provides a recipe to get better. He doesn't give me a Treasure Map and a lecture about the importance of figuring things out myself.

I understand FF is not a doctors office -- but the vast majority of threads are "how to". Some are good and some are not so good. But the intent of almost every OP is to pass along some knowledge or insight -- again, ignoring the quality of the information. Show me 3 threads here at FF -- no, show me 2 threads -- no, show me one other thread here at FF where I can ask a question of the OP and I'll be presented with a scorecard with blank spaces.

Look it -- all the indicators I develop use algebra to compute various values. If I wish to share an indicator do I first remind people of the importance of Algebra 101? Of course not -- the indicator is for people to use for trading. This is not High School. This is not a University. You guys are not instructors or educators. If you have something cool you'd like to share -- then share it. If you prefer to keep it a mystery then keep it a mystery. Seriously -- you guys are the worst teachers -- 99% of your students have failed the test or already dropped out. But that doesn't seem to deter you -- you rationalize that it's all for our own good. You are totally and completely oblivious to the fact that no one gets it. And when I point that out, then I get lectured about the importance of learning things on my own -- as if I'm a child. Very condescending. I have a PhD in Biochemistry. I was a research scientist for many years before turning to software. All I want to do is f-cking trade. I've spent a lot of time with @George's thread and then this one -- and other than learning that prices are manipulated by an MM I'm no closer to using that insight than I was 4 months ago. And I don't like being lectured to about what I need to do to learn something new -- at least not from people who have zero experience in education.

It's really a shame. No doubt @George had something special to share. And he should be enjoying the fruits of knowing he changed the trading landscape for a lot of people. But in the end I'm forced to move on. I'm grateful for what I have learned, but I've also spent a lot of time treading water and going nowhere. And @George also threw in the towel -- not very satisfying for him, either. So, the final result leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. And that falls on you guys -- you held the keys. You drove the agenda. When a class collectively fails an exam it ain't the students -- it's the instructor. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but the truth works that way sometimes.

"All I want to do is f-cking trade."
the good thing, there is plenty ways to trade this forex market.
why bother to desperately understand one way (George's)? here is no exam to pass or fail, it isnt biochemistry, ffs.
George has no obligation to hand hold, nor i have to post or not post, or anything else.
wont want to make you feel bad, or leave a bad taste, nor to enslave myself to explain things.

"When a class collectively fails an exam it ain't the students -- it's the instructor."
George, a teacher? NOT
maybe more a coach.
could you blame a coach who start to work with 100 kids and 99% wont make it even to the nationals? or 100% wont make to the Olympics?
is that a likely scenario?
you tell.


happy trading!

PS. officially i have 'thrown my towel in', with this post. before something else "falls on you guys" falls on me...cos i dont hold any keys, not even an agenda; if not that i tried to help you to open up a different viewing perspective on things.
did i fail you as a "bitter" truth?
the truth is, NOT, neither me, nor anyone EVER had an obligation to you to start with. probably the hardest pill to swallow!?

often a coach ends fired. (Source : TV and Sports newsmagazine)

https://youtu.be/xzuigtvqCK8

+1, and really final:

not even the world's best coach will be able to make a winning athlete from everyone. and everyone = 99%+ of general population.
but most kids have parents telling them how great they are, even if mediocre at best.
and most coach wont be rude ( read honest) to the parents to tell them otherwise. even if deep down their heart both the coach and and the parents know the truth: the kid will never make it beyond a hobby level.

over and out. for real.
happy trading!

Steve,
"Here you are saying that @George knew in advance that 99% would fail, yet he never mentioned that."
BS.
George mentioned to you, countless times, you focus on the wrong things. or this or that is stupid, or this or that opinion is what an idiot would think....etc, etc, etc.
you are bitter. sure, i can understand that.
but learn to read, do yourself that favor.
where did you find George's thread?
was it under "Trading discussion"?
was it under "trading systems"?
would one need to have an advanced degree to understand the difference?
NO ONE has an obligation to you. repeat NO ONE!
cold hard wake up call, at your age, and i know it is harsh, but a last final favor for you!

Bonus: whether others succeed or fail at trading has no direct or indirect relation to your own success or failure at trading!

@profitfarmer -- you may not realize it and I'm sure it's not your intent, but you just acknowledged that the reason why 99% of us failed is because we're not good enough -- we must all be idiots and failures. Going with your Olympics analogy -- if I was an athlete trying out for a team, a coach would let me know upfront what my chances were. Here you are saying that @George knew in advance that 99% would fail, yet he never mentioned that.

No way was this a scam -- @George never said anything dishonest. If anyone says anything bad about @George I would jump through hoops of fire to defend him. But I would have preferred this to be a scam. I would have preferred to have lost $500 or $1000 back in January and moved on. Instead, I and many others spent hundreds of hours looking to solve riddles, fill in the details of treasure maps and try to fit pieces to a puzzle. No one succeeded -- no one! The time I spent on this is time I'll never get back -- I would have preferred to have lost money rather than the time.

Hi Rick - appreciate you taking time to comment and outline candidly your thoughts which I find very interesting indeed. I am limited to iPhone for a while but certainly intend getting into what you’ve shared. Do you have the post # of that chart you referenced ( late April)?

Earlier this morning I mentioned how if price spikes out of the value areas it has an 80% chance of travelling to the other side or “filling the value area”.

Below is a shot of a trade I placed this morning with that TP objective. This is today’s GBPJPY.

I am am looking forward to getting into the chart you referenced Rick. Cheers!

quote--- No way was this a scam -- @George never said anything dishonest. If anyone says anything bad about @George I would jump through hoops of fire to defend him. But I would have preferred this to be a scam. I would have preferred to have lost $500 or $1000 back in January and moved on. Instead, I and many others spent hundreds of hours looking to solve riddles, fill in the details of treasure maps and try to fit pieces to a puzzle. No one succeeded -- no one! The time I spent on this is time I'll never get back -- I would have preferred to have lost money rather than the time.

It may not be a scam, and I thought for sure that George was going to go commercial. At this point I can say I was wrong about that.

Having said that there is no proof of George claims .......... many have come and gone making similar claims.

There are only cheer leaders coming here and there with there mantra of ...... your on the wrong track and here is the mi-story magic piece of the puzzle that you need to trade as accurately as George does. Can Georges information help someone to be a better trader.... May be .... but probably not........ Georges thread is no more helpful than a so called scam thread... even a good scam thread has to have elements of truth in it.... Not saying George is a scam only it is no more helpful than any other and there is no proof of any results and not saying there has to be ..... You dont come to a forum and make such claims (with no evidence, proof) and expect to be taken seriously or at least with out serious doubt. This is normal and should be.
No amount of cheer leading is going to change that ..... it mostly just makes things more questionable.

Yes, we can lose money but we can get more of that ...... but our time is finite. and we never get that back... so time is worth more than money.

@robots4me You have a good thread here, your a good moderator....... you have a lot more patients than me...... stick to your original plan. Put your time in what makes sense to you.

Hi R4me
I thought this post might assist to bring back some basic structure for your work.

George uses baskets to trade.--see the attached trades listed below. With due respect for your talents I doubt if it is possible to try and code all of those trades
He has three time frames that are necessary.
He has three SMA's
He has filters.
He has a set of times that are beneficial to his trading/sleep patterns/dinner times etc etc
You can try an call him at 1600 hrs AEST---I bet he don't answer you, if he is trading.
He has a boundless mindset,--and many other talents too numerous to mention, but he has been fortunate to find a mate or three in the last 21 years or so.
Have a look at Fractal Freak's site in FF. as an example of help he may have received in discussions on FX trading--similar but different.
He has copied FF's way of writing and posting, funny isn't it, but you may care to have a look at all of his work and videos.
FX trading requires that you do your apprenticeship Steve, n lord help you to be able to do it, but I feel by providing you with all of this info, your outcome will bring you the just rewards you deserve.
Be careful though there are those who may try and thwart your attempts here and I have been reminded that (No Good Turn Goes Unpunished)
But I aint gonna see you dragged thru the mud so to speak.

Finally fer Christs sake don't you dare deliver a KFC Indicator--- Guide posts are necessary to keep us on the road, but keep the destination private for Steve


Your work to me seems to have spiralled into some sort of slinging match with others---you are very good at what you do, so hopefully a review of what George set out here might bring focus away from Liquidity Gaps and all sorts of other extremely difficult points in the FX markets to try and pinpoint with coding efforts.

What we hopefully can achieve is the bigger picture of hanging onto the coat tails of bigger players--whoever they might be--like who cares.

I care for you and your efforts and do not want to see it get blown up, take that dog for a walk, smell the roses and come back refreshed after a break.

C,mon cobber, lets hit the road--good old Aussie expression
Ben

Georges Trades wont post correctly so go to his Page 168 Post 3352--Here he displays all his trades:-


Goooooooood Aussie morning peeps ,,,

I get many traders that come to me day after day ,,,,
They want to become master traders in a month ,,,,,
They want me to tell them what is it to look for to buy the bottom and sell the top ,,,,,
Time after time ,, i keep repeating myself to each one of them ,,,,
IF GEORGE DID 16 CONTINUOUS YEARS AND OVER 40,000 HOURS ,,,,
WHO ARE YOU TO WANT TO DO IT IN LESS TIME ! ! ! !
BUT ,,, They are always told ,,, they are lucky ,,, because ,,,,
THEY HAVE A GEORGE ,,, THAT GEORGE DID NOT HAVE THROUGH HIS HARD JOURNEY ! ! !

MASTERY IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS ACHIEVED IN 1 MONTH OR EVEN 1 YEAR ! ! ! !
It requires countless hours ,,,, in the thousands ,,,,, as i am speaking from personal experience ,,,,

On few occasions i have been posting about the importance of looking at ,,,
FRACTAL NATURE OF THE MARKET ,,,,,
LOOKING AT THE MARKET AS A COMPLETE PICTURE ! ! ! !

I would like to share something here for the benefit of all ,,,,
Especially for the traders who are struggling ,, BUT ,,,
NOT DOING THE WORK ,,,, AS MANY ARE LAZY ,,, AND JUST MAKE EXCUSES ! ! ! !

What you are witnessing here ,,,, is ,,,,
NOT SOMETHING I USUALLY DO ,,,, BUT
I THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE AN INSPIRATION FOR THE MANY LAZY SODS ,,, AND ALSO THE HARD WORKERS JUST THE SAME ! ! !

The market presented me with an amazing setup last night AS USUAL ! ! ! !
I was in the company of few friends ,,, Timetells ( Pete ) ,,, RickM ,, Pooh123 ( David ) ,,, and of course Angelo ,,,,
NO there was NO Teamviewer opened at the time ,, as i do not do that when i am trading ,,,,
I was talking through the price action as it was developing ,,,,

This trading history you are seeing was based TOTALLY on the 15 MNT ,,, 1 HOUR ,,
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY ,,,
THE 4 HOUR CHART ,,, AS I DID EXPLAIN TO THEM WHY THAT WAS JUST AN AMAZING SETUP ,,,,,

They were all based on the moving averages on ALL of them ,,, reading the momentum ,,,,
That may seem like nothing to many traders ,,,, BUT
TO THE TRAINED EYE,,,, IT WAS ,,,, JUST GOLD ! ! ! !

I have NOT added up the pips ,, BUT ,,,
I KNOW IT IS ATLEAST BETWEEN 200 AND 300 SOMEWHERE in 2 HOURS AND 30 MNTS IN TOTAL ! ! ! !
The market range was ONLY 20 PIPS RANGE MOST OF THE TIME AS U WILL SEE ON THE CHART ,,,,

Hope this will help some to see the POWER of KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE AT WORK ,,,,
AT ANY GIVEN TIME ,,, THERE WAS NO GUESSING ABOUT ANY OF THE ENTRIES ! ! ! !
NOT ONE LOSING BASKET ALL NIGHT ! ! ! !
THE SECTION TRADED IS IN THE GREEN BOX ! ! ! !

Cheers
George



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Those trades of Georges copied for reference to my post above

 

P.S
THAAAAAAANK YOU MASTER MOHAMMAD ALI ! ! !
Attached Images (click to enlarge)
https://www.forexfactory.com/attachm...1&d=1554853577 https://www.forexfactory.com/attachm...1&d=1554863980 https://www.forexfactory.com/attachm...1&d=1554863986 https://www.forexfactory.com/attachm...1&d=1554863993
https://www.forexfactory.com/attachm...1&d=1554864002 https://www.forexfactory.com/attachm...1&d=1554864008 https://www.forexfactory.com/attachm...1&d=1554864017 https://www.forexfactory.com/attachm...1&d=1554864026
https://www.forexfactory.com/attachm...1&d=1554864034
LOVE YOUR GAME WITH A PASSION ,,,,, WORK WITH A VISION ! ! ! ! !
1

11

Hi r4me,
Pls read my pm for more details

Steve you are running a great thread. If it wasn't for this thread I wouldn't have been exposed to some of George's work. I thank you for that.

Like I said before, may be just take a manual approach first. Once you have mastered something, manually, and then after you can code it. You can code parallel or after it is up to you but on that I don't think through a chart that is clouded with indicators you can get that intimacy that comes from the manual approach - that is the psychology. I must say as I keep on practicing I no longer draw physical lines on all valleys and peaks - I draw where I think it's more important and so my chart still remains clean.

I haven't installed and used your indicators yet (I downloaded) but I must admit I have learned a lot from this thread. I am still going through all of George's posts over again (I downloaded all his posts including from other unrelated threads and will also download all the "inner circles" posts that are related to George's work) to pick up any bits and pieces that will help me to solve the puzzle and see the bigger picture. I test what I learned on the demo account but I have noticed that some situations that present themselves I am able to confidently take a live trade at 0.01 lot size. As we speak I am running one single live trade that is based on what I learned from George's theory and it is currently seating at 78 pips (entered last Wednesday as I have a full-time job, can't day trade). I can place SLs confidently where I think the MM won't touch it (again I applied what I learned).

It is about 4 weeks now since I have been exposed to George's theory and it is still a long way to go. I will patiently learn. So keep the thread alive - your questions are helping even though sometimes we seem to drift away (I think). Like moodybot said - take a walk and refresh your mind. It won't hurt to not to post for a day or two. God worked for 6 days and rested on the 7th so you can also take a similar approach.

I was finished with the Forum. To get me back to just trading again. I will not be drawn in to writing posts any more or even discussing my thoughts. I’m done.
Since my joining the Forum back last Sept I have been through the hoops and at 67½ I don’t want more of that lol.

But since meeting George trading clarity is there. And while I enjoy reading this thread it is (again) taking up a lot of my time.

TIME.

We are back to discussing here whether we are wasting time. Time that we cannot get back.

Are we adults or children. Our time is our time to do with what we please. It is NOT dependent on someone else interrupting or wasting our own time with what THEY say or do. We choose to use our time with what suits us best AT THE TIME. Retrospectively I could maybe say I wasted 2 years of my life between Grades 3 & 5 at Primary school that I will never get back. But I don’t cry over what I use my time for. And certainly NOT after that time has passed.

So clarity.

When I first “saw” that the market was “moved independently” (I don’t use the word manipulated) trading started to make sense.

I saw this last September. I expressed what I saw and was vilified from many fronts on another thread.

Who cares, I didn’t. I pushed forward.

Then I met and talked with George. For hours each day. The trading discussions were so enlightening. NOT in how to trade or which trade to take next, or at what price or time of day. The enlightenment was how to “approach” LOOKING at the markets. Did I wish to do it exactly how George looks at the market. Well how could I. I can only “look” through my own eyes. As we all only can.

But how great of George to use his TIME to tell us what he saw (and in his own style lol).

George told everyone that the MM uses psychology to trip, trap, trick participants. And how they did it. GOLD for me !!!!

That is enough for anyone to make their own way in forex trading imo.

But people wanted more from George.

They wanted to know how, when, where, why. If they weren’t told then George was therefore a scammer. If they weren’t told then George and his info was a waste of their precious TIME. If no other trader, who listened to George, wasn’t successful in their own right then what George had to say was a waste (of time).

And all along George kept saying how simple this all was. ONCE YOU SEE IT. Price either goes up or down. And when it does move, it is “GOING” to a target somewhere.

THAT IS IT. If you cannot use that info then why is that George’s fault?

In my case when you see it, you will always see it. You cannot help but see it.

But can you AUTOMATE that. Which is the basis of this very interesting thread. IMHO the answer is NO.

For example, the MM opens up their PC & MT4 (just joking). Price is somewhere. And there are targets above and below that price. Does the MM start moving price towards one of those targets immediately.

IMO NO. But business now begins. Traders enter orders. Banks offload their big customer orders (after front running them – just joking – well maybe). A market is now in swing.

Price will flow up and down as orders enter but imo until there is a “financial purpose” for the MM to take advantage of these mini swings, which start happening, call it ranging or consolidation or whatever you wish, the MM just sits.

At some point there will be an imbalance, trapping some/all traders, with the MM then moving price towards whatever directional target that "financially suits" them best.

Because this price action is based, imo, on the PARTICIPANTS trades then it NOT known in advance by the MM and what will be todays movement action - yet.

The MM imo operates AFTER the event (ie after the trades are loaded) so when we ask ourselves WHICH WAY will price go we CANNOT know this information if THEY don't beforehand.

Therefore I believe we cannot automate a trade AT THIS STAGE. We cannot because even the MM doesn’t know beforehand where the trades will come in and for which direction. The price action by the MM occurs AFTER all the individual’s trading events.

I only have about 5000 hours invested in forex, I came out of horse racing three years ago so I have little credibility imo amongst long time traders in the markets. But I see things clearly ONCE I see them.

In my observations, I ALIGN precisely with what George has shown me (FROM HIS OBSERVATIONS), in that we wait until the MM makes their move. And I guess that is why George says it will take you X-amount of hours to see it yourself and to not be lazy and just start putting in the hours. In time you will see it.

But do we wait for price to shoot off in a direction towards an extreme and then exhaust (like I did last Sept) and then trade.

Or do we (like “structure” traders) wait until price finds a balance point (in multiple timeframes) and then “shows its hand” at THE balance point by its move and then enter our trades (with absolute tight stop loss in case the MM flips price the other way for whatever reason).

Or do we observe and utilise “changes” in momentum that then become new ‘short-term’ momentum (NOT trend lol) by using WHICHEVER or whatever indicators we are happy with because over time they prove to give us a repeatable result in OUR favour, and THEN trade IN the momentum direction.

Well I use ALL three lol.

Not three at the same time on an individual pair, just one trade behaviour only. But I trade 6 pairs and there is often a different “style” trade on each pair. This I take as me being somewhat boundless, after listening to George and watching his Sahdguru videos.

So to Steve, if you wish to automate trading then WHICH of these trade styles would an EA incorporate.

How to build an EA that will self determine whether it should be waiting for the MM move to an extreme, or waiting for a structure setup in the midst of price action to show a direction, or waiting for an indi based (in my case) MM price move to set off in a new MINI momentum direction. (And how many pips to its TP, how much DD to set off a SL. Etc, etc, etc.)

To be honest I would rather use my TIME trading than building an EA to enter a trade for me. Because THAT is the issue with the EA I reckon. WHEN to enter and forget closing or TP-ing at his stage. (I did PC code in Clipper previously a C++ compiler for dBase III).

And that is just the THREE DIFFERENT price action scenarios that I trade. Other traders will have MORE so which one then to build the EA (or EA’s) around. Are you just using George’s 1m action or his momentum trading or liquidity gaps or pure targets either weekly, daily or intraday for the EA. Such are the choices.

Where does it all end with this and how much precious time will be invested.

BUT. And here is the rub and my writing this morning.


It is just wrong for me to hear again, & on this thread, after all this time, grubs (my word lol) who come on and criticise George.

And NOT you Steve, you have been exemplary imo in your conduct and I have no issue with your ire at people at times or anybody’s ire for that matter. More strength to you.

We are all human and behave only as we ARE as individuals. And we MUST keep our individuality else then we are NOT ourselves anymore. Maybe just a clone of someone else (heaven forbid).

So again, George gave his advice to you all. KISS.

He explained what simple is. He explained in what environment to use it. He explained his years of observations about the market AS HE SAW IT. What more do people want from him ffs lol. And then to discuss him in inappropriate ways imo. FFS.

Move on. Trade if you can. Enjoy life. Be yourself. PS I’m done lol