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MT4 EA redundancy solution?

  • #1
  • First Post: May 16, 2019 6:58am May 16, 2019 6:58am
Hi
I have a challenging question for your which you may be able to help me.
I'm trying to setup a backup redundancy for when an MT4 EA stops functioning on my PC (eg if Windows does an update or the computer freezes) I want to do this by having a second PC/VPS in a different location with the EA running and monitoring the primary EA in the first location. The secondary EA will then kick-in when the primary EA stops transmitting a signal. To do this I need the client terminals on both PCs to be able to transmit data between them so the EAs know which EA is in command and the current status of the trade strategy. I have done some research and read through the forums but have not been able to find a solution to this. Note, I have tried a single VPS solution but also found these to be unreliable - I could not rely on a single VPS - still need the primary and secondary VPS. Your help is much appreciated.
Kind regards
  • #2
  • May 16, 2019 8:10am May 16, 2019 8:10am
Quoting aa888
Hi I have a challenging question for your which you may be able to help me. I'm trying to setup a backup redundancy for when an MT4 EA stops functioning on my PC (eg if Windows does an update or the computer freezes) I want to do this by having a second PC/VPS in a different location with the EA running and monitoring the primary EA in the first location. The secondary EA will then kick-in when the primary EA stops transmitting a signal. To do this I need the client terminals on both PCs to be able to transmit data between them so the EAs know which...
This isn’t the best solution but:
How about having the same ea running on two pc’s; the master would not be changed, but the slave would have a time delay added before it opens a trade. If the slave does not detect any trades opened by the master with the correct magic number, when an entry signal appears, then the slave would open a trade.
  • #3
  • May 16, 2019 12:53pm May 16, 2019 12:53pm
Hey aa888:
ZeroMQ is the library that you are looking for. This library can be integrated into MT4/5 code which will allow you to make the MT4/5 to communicate with any other application you need. You can communicate back and forth between other apps that are coded in other languages like Visual Basic, C++,C#, php etc etc), real powerful stuff .

I've used it to build my own trade copier/bridge from MT4/5 to TradersWorkStation, and yes, something very similar to what you are looking for.. LOL. In this case I am using two charts that have a basket of trades on each chart. Lets call them Basket1 and Basket2. Each has their own EA running. So when basket1 has reached a certain -x pips, it then tells basket2 to wake up and open its list of trades. Basket2 then reports back to basket1 on its status of the gain etc etc. Basket1 takes the info from basket2 and includes it on a panel along with its own data to display to the user. Basket2 can also tell basket1 when it may need to close down and vice versa basket1 can tell basket2 when to close trades …. a lot of communication no? LOL

In a similar way you would have two MT4 account in separate machines (can be in same network or across the galaxy). The backup MT4 account would simply wait for responses of "I am still alive" messages from the 1st MT4 account. The backup MT4 account could also be logged intro the SAME account but would not be doing anything except listening to the 1st MT4 account and collecting the trade status. Once the 1st MT4 account stops sending the "I am alive" messages the second M4 account would then take all of the trade status info and become active with the whatever the 1st account was doing before it fell off the grid.

Look into ZeroMq… I can help, but my time is limited, got a lot on the plate now . If you come up with some code as a start, I can take it and massage it and make it work.

Take care and good luck
Jess
Our AWESOME IMAGINATION is the true holy grail!
  • #4
  • May 16, 2019 12:58pm May 16, 2019 12:58pm
Quoting Beerrun
{quote} This isn’t the best solution but: How about having the same ea running on two pc’s; the master would not be changed, but the slave would have a time delay added before it opens a trade. If the slave does not detect any trades opened by the master with the correct magic number, when an entry signal appears, then the slave would open a trade.
that's good idea

Just need to ensure that the synch delay between master and slave is right on cause one slip and the slave EA will be opening duplicate trades
Our AWESOME IMAGINATION is the true holy grail!
  • #5
  • Edited 2:12pm May 16, 2019 1:46pm | Edited 2:12pm
Quoting xmess7
{quote} that's good idea Just need to ensure that the synch delay between master and slave is right on cause one slip and the slave EA will be opening duplicate trades
Yes that is the issue and it’s dependent on what trading strategy you use; it would be difficult for scalping low timeframes. Also need a short enough delay to not miss entries if the master fails and the slave starts opening trades. It would be less work to code this than having pc’s talk to each other in my opinion; just need a time delay+open trade check inserted directly before the slave sends an order. However, actually having the pc’s/ea’s talk is more reliable.

Your ZeroMQ sounds like an extremely useful program. It would probably be more reliable than a time delay.
  • #6
  • May 16, 2019 6:05pm May 16, 2019 6:05pm
Quoting Beerrun
{quote} Yes that is the issue and it’s dependent on what trading strategy you use; it would be difficult for scalping low timeframes. Also need a short enough delay to not miss entries if the master fails and the slave starts opening trades. It would be less work to code this than having pc’s talk to each other in my opinion; just need a time delay+open trade check inserted directly before the slave sends an order. However, actually having the pc’s/ea’s talk is more reliable. Your ZeroMQ sounds like an extremely useful program. It would probably...
It's not mine . It's open source, it's everyone's lol. it is powerful. On my first couple of times i testing the communication between two machines.. one in Europe and the other in the states... Man the communication was instantaneous!!! And on top of it , it barely uses any cpu or memory, which means u can use it on an old slow machine and it would work with out any problems..

Take care
Peace
Jess
Our AWESOME IMAGINATION is the true holy grail!
  • #7
  • May 16, 2019 6:37pm May 16, 2019 6:37pm
Quoting xmess7
{quote} It's not mine . It's open source, it's everyone's lol. it is powerful. On my first couple of times i testing the communication between two machines.. one in Europe and the other in the states... Man the communication was instantaneous!!! And on top of it , it barely uses any cpu or memory, which means u can use it on an old slow machine and it would work with out any problems.. Take care Peace Jess
I just meant "your solution". I will have to look into it for myself
  • #8
  • May 16, 2019 6:42pm May 16, 2019 6:42pm
Quoting Beerrun
{quote} I just meant "your solution". I will have to look into it for myself
No worries... all is kewl!
Our AWESOME IMAGINATION is the true holy grail!
  • #9
  • May 16, 2019 10:31pm May 16, 2019 10:31pm
If you already have an EA without the ability to get its source code, is there a way you could implement a separate redundancy manage EA which manages all of this (and you specify the trading EA name inside the redundancy management EA)?
  • #10
  • May 17, 2019 4:36am May 17, 2019 4:36am
Quoting aa888
If you already have an EA without the ability to get its source code, is there a way you could implement a separate redundancy manage EA which manages all of this (and you specify the trading EA name inside the redundancy management EA)?
Without source code you can't do anything. That's why almost all experts/indicators here at FF which do not provide sources (with various illogical reasonings) are more or less useless for serious trading. Without sources an EA can not communicate, no status, no keep-alive. All you can do is monitoring network connectivity to your broker, and network connectivity of your server provider.
It takes blood, sweat and enough tears to wash away the blood.
  • #11
  • May 18, 2019 12:23pm May 18, 2019 12:23pm
An alternate solution is to pass messages via the broker server itself by using extreme off-quote limit orders. These orders can be used to pass messages via comments or as a check-in.
  • #12
  • May 18, 2019 2:11pm May 18, 2019 2:11pm
Quoting aa888
If you already have an EA without the ability to get its source code, is there a way you could implement a separate redundancy manage EA which manages all of this (and you specify the trading EA name inside the redundancy management EA)?

Yes there is way . There is always a WAY LOL

The only condition for this type of scenario is that the MT4 accounts can only have one EA open and making trades.
What I mean is this. Since we will not have access to what the magic number is for each trade then we can only deal with the orders as a total.
The redundancy manager EA will still work but it will be looking at all the trades that are made on that account. So as long as you have only one EA making trades then the operation of the redundancy manager EA can work just fine.

NOW if the EA provides COMMENTS then we can filter for those trades was are interested in by looking or the comments. It depends on the comments and if they have in them anything that is not changed.

Our AWESOME IMAGINATION is the true holy grail!
  • #13
  • May 18, 2019 2:28pm May 18, 2019 2:28pm
Quoting emmzett
{quote} Without source code you can't do anything. That's why almost all experts/indicators here at FF which do not provide sources (with various illogical reasonings) are more or less useless for serious trading. Without sources an EA can not communicate, no status, no keep-alive. All you can do is monitoring network connectivity to your broker, and network connectivity of your server provider.
Hello emmzett:
Actually there is a WAY (that word again LOL) or several to make it happen without the source code. With Indicators its alot easier but with EAs it takes a little playing around .

With indicators all you need is add the indicator as an iCustom() function to your EA (or other indicator), and call up the different DATA elements of it. Those are what you see on the DATA window. Yes, I know some indicators DO NOT show them, but guess what.. they are still there LOL... yup... they are still there .... muuuahahha . I did this recently with the Extreme Matrix Indicator. The original indicator was showing toooo many popups when the signals appeared... so I made an ALERT EA that would take those signals and create popups and even send notifications that are triggered only once when the signals appear. So as you can imagine, since the main part of the code has been done I can now add the final part, that modify my EA to open trades based on those signals .

With EAs, it depends... if like I mentioned in my post above, you see a COMMENT field generated by an EA then you can select which trades are your signals of interest. Otherwise you cannot have several EAs running in your account cause your EA will not know which trade belongs to which EA.. In that case you want to only have that EA running by itself so that all the trades it makes are the ones you will use as signals in your own EA.

So here is what I have been able to do with no source code and an EA. LOL.
1. I can detect when a trade is made by the no source EA and monitor with my own rules the money managment of the trade and if anymore trades will be taken
2. Or I can simply use the EA trades as signals. Once my EA detects that "signal" I then use my rules to determine if I want it to open a trade or not.

You may ask how do you control the no source code EA not taking a trade??? Easy...run the no source EA in demo and run your EA on another chart, Once your EA detects the trade and makes the choice, that trade then is copied to another MT4 account. There is another way to do it on the same live account but I will leave that for another day .

I hope this give folks creative ideas. I am a big fan of OPEN SOURCE.
But if there is no source ... there is always a way..... just use your AWESOME IMAGINATION and you will find it....

PEACE
Jess
Our AWESOME IMAGINATION is the true holy grail!
  • #14
  • May 18, 2019 2:39pm May 18, 2019 2:39pm
Quoting xmess7
...With indicators all you need is add the indicator as an iCustom() function to your EA (or other indicator), and call up the different DATA elements of it. Those are what you see on the DATA window...
Yep. Been there, done that :-)

https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=799233
It takes blood, sweat and enough tears to wash away the blood.
  • #15
  • May 18, 2019 2:40pm May 18, 2019 2:40pm
Quoting emmzett
{quote} Yep. Been there, done that :-) https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=799233
awesome! I am going to check it out

Followup: Took a read at your intro, so basically what you discovered was that when u call up BankersFX Core Volume indicator data in your iCustom() function nothing showed up.. WOW great catch. Good for you!!
Our AWESOME IMAGINATION is the true holy grail!
  • #16
  • Edited 3:49pm May 18, 2019 2:45pm | Edited 3:49pm
Quoting xmess7
{quote} awesome! I am going to check it out Followup: Took a read at your intro, so basically what you discovered was that when u call up BankersFX Core Volume indicator data in your iCustom() function nothing showed up.. WOW great catch. Good for you!!
Not exactly. I bought a license for two brokers and what I found was that with different brokers their so-called institutional data feed showed different data. They disabled the Data window to hide it and to disguise their scam, but I was not scared... :-)

The iCustom() part:
https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...8#post11152528
It takes blood, sweat and enough tears to wash away the blood.
  • #17
  • May 18, 2019 7:45pm May 18, 2019 7:45pm
There is a remaining issue to implementing redundancy without source code as I see it ...unless someone has a way for each instance of the MT4 terminal to share live memory cache data for the EA across each VPS.

If the EA stopped then live cached data in memory would be lost as it's not logged (as compared to when a trade is made that log is recorded in the MQL4/logs folder). The cache is in memory and not saved to disk so when the EA is restarted it will not load the state from the previous run (ie the primary trading terminal doesn't pick-up from where it left off to continue with the original data and doesn't close existing trades based on live data as a result - assuming no pending orders or SL/TP orders not previously made).

Is there any solution to this problem?
  • #18
  • May 18, 2019 9:33pm May 18, 2019 9:33pm
Quoting aa888
There is a remaining issue to implementing redundancy without source code as I see it ...unless someone has a way for each instance of the MT4 terminal to share live memory cache data for the EA across each VPS. If the EA stopped then live cached data in memory would be lost as it's not logged (as compared to when a trade is made that log is recorded in the MQL4/logs folder). The cache is in memory and not saved to disk so when the EA is restarted it will not load the state from the previous run (ie the primary trading terminal doesn't pick-up from...
You can store in several ways the info from the EA on the main/ several terminals into the Redundant EA side. As the main EA(s) create trades or any type of data, this is sent to the redundant EA we're then it is stored in any form as required, arrays, files, or even globals.
The redundant EAs job is to keep storing this data and at the same time to listen for the heart beat of the main EA(s). Thus once the main EA(s) fail to send their heart beat. The redundant EA then immediately takes over.. and uses the saved state to continue to monitor the state of the main account(s). There are other conditions to consider but on the same way it would be handled.

Man this is a tempting program to create lol... Good little challenge

Jess
Our AWESOME IMAGINATION is the true holy grail!
  • #19
  • May 18, 2019 9:54pm May 18, 2019 9:54pm
LOL...what would it take for you to yield to temptation and take up the challenge!!
  • #20
  • May 18, 2019 10:58pm May 18, 2019 10:58pm
Quoting aa888
...If the EA stopped then live cached data in memory would be lost as it's not logged... Is there any solution to this problem?
In general the solution to this issue is as follows: The EA has to communicate each state changing event to an information sink, whatever it is (e.g. by storing into a file, by sending to a queue or a listening TCP port). From this externally recorded status the EA itself (or another copy running elsewhere) can seemlessly pick-up work and continue in case of whatever outages may happen. I stick to my former claim and don't agree with @xmess7. Without source code this is not possible.

Quoting xmess7
...as the main EA create [...] any type of data, this is sent to the redundant EA...
Not without source code.

Quoting xmess7
...to listen for the heart beat of the main EA...thus once the main EA(s) fail to send their heart beat...
Without source code there is no heart beat.
It takes blood, sweat and enough tears to wash away the blood.
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