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  • #161
  • Edited 6:26pm May 8, 2019 4:45pm | Edited 6:26pm
Hi Anthony,

Sorry to hear you're going through your trial by fire. It happens to every trader, it's what shapes you and drives you to leave the game or evolve as a trader. It's an incredibly stressful time , but you will come through it with more knowledge, experience, and hopefully philosophical acceptance.

Good luck with the decisions you need to make regarding your losses, they will not be easy to make

I'll also add that when I took leave without pay from work to trade full time I had 5 successive days of spiralling disbelief at my losing trades and finished the week down $10k money blown, account only alive because of more deposits.. actually I did that twice. Its VERY hard to accept loss, especially when you've been sailing with a fair breeze in your sails. Loss is a part of trading. You WILL place bad trades, they are a part of trading. Accepting loss is integral to success

Kind regards
Helena
  • #162
  • May 8, 2019 6:38pm May 8, 2019 6:38pm
Here's my take. Good trading is not about spectacular pips gain or uncanny accuracy in entry exit or high win/loss ratio or large risk/reward ratio. Those numbers stand out as spectacular that quickly sit in the limelight to attract the attention of the mass majority. Those are also the thoughts of the typical gambler.

Good trading is all about risk management. Risk management is not money management although both terminology is mostly used interchangeably, they don't mean the same thing.

Risk management is a very large topic, not possible to cover in a post. Probably not possible to covey the topic understanding in written text medium.

Hence, we do read the posts from some experienced traders who reference performance to the usage of risk adjusted risk reward ratio as oppose to the normal risk reward ratio which by itself is meaningless. And this ties in with the win loss ratio. However, caution to note that this numerical risk adjusted risk reward calculation does not reflect the risk exposure in it's entirety, there's much more to it than that number gauge.

Currency speculation is not currency gambling. It's a speculation process of risking capital in an uncertain market environment acknowledging the presence of risk always with the intent to gain profits or grow the initial funds safely. This safe environment of speculation takes priority over the intent to make gain. Gambling is the other way round. My 2cts.
  • #163
  • May 8, 2019 10:55pm May 8, 2019 10:55pm
Oh man, that's rough

I've been watching your thread quietly on and off for weeks, and admittedly was a bit worried when I saw that you had increased your capital by 100 fold this early on. I hope that you will be able to recover it all in due time
  • #164
  • May 9, 2019 1:26am May 9, 2019 1:26am
Hello Anthony

I am sorry to hear that really...I know the feeling and experience as many have made the mistake and misjudgement.
I truly hope it was a demo account and that you dont take the loss too hard which I know will not be easy

Have enjoyed watching you progress from the start, keep up the hard work..sadly this is part of the journey but a chance to evolve.

All the best.

Codie
"Discipline Is The Bridge Between Goals And Accomplishment" *Jim Rohn*
  • #165
  • May 9, 2019 2:57am May 9, 2019 2:57am
Hey Anthony - I can tell from your posts and graciousness that you are an excellent guy.

This is what matters most - you are a good person and you will handle this - and be helped to handle it - by all that is good.

you don’t need to hear preaching about risk management etc but what you do need is encouragement and empathy. Goodness and kindness are rewarded - I firmly believe this and that we have not seen the last of your trading career either.....

Get back up on the horse when you’re able to and good luck

Ray
  • #166
  • May 9, 2019 5:22am May 9, 2019 5:22am
Quoting TopCover
Hey Anthony - I can tell from your posts and graciousness that you are an excellent guy. This is what matters most - you are a good person and you will handle this - and be helped to handle it - by all that is good. you don’t need to hear preaching about risk management etc but what you do need is encouragement and empathy. Goodness and kindness are rewarded - I firmly believe this and that we have not seen the last of your trading career either..... Get back up on the horse when you’re able to and good luck Ray
Nicely put Ray, he is a gracious guy - and he's resilient. Which means he doesn't need to be babied, he can deal with the truth...

Just my 2c
"When the facts change, I change my mind"
  • #167
  • May 9, 2019 7:07am May 9, 2019 7:07am
Quoting SunnyCoast
Well, this week has been a brutal education for me in the markets. Monday was another positive start where I added to my new account and was well on target to achieve $2,500 profit in 10 days of trading. {image} And then in one day of trading I'm now down $20k floating loss. I'll go over the trades on the weekend to look for where it all went wrong on Tuesday evening my time. Hopefully I will be smart enough to learn the many lessons from this. Cheers Anthony
Hi Anthony,
I happened across your journal and have found it an interesting and very honest account of starting out in trading. I don't know about your method but your account analysis as posted tells me a lot. If I understand it right, you had 11 consecutive wins and no losses to make $947 then in one day you are sitting on an open loss of $20,766?

These numbers suggest there is probably something badly awry with either or both of the expectancy of your system and/or the risk control function. I suggest you really need to stop trading right now and think about these things very carefully.

Apologies for the rather brutal commentary but I have been trading for a living for a long time now (and wiped a few accounts in my early days) so I like to think I have an idea of what I'm talking about. You come across as someone really wanting to learn how to trade rather than fancifully messing about and so it would be a shame if such an experience drove you out of the game before you learned the ropes - it happens to most, unfortunately.

You cannot possibly hope to make a consistent profit if your average win is $86 and the average loss is $20,000. This is many orders of magnitude out of line. I am not clear if your account is demo or real money: if the former, no harm done; if the latter, my sincere apologies (but you really shouldn't be trading real money at this stage of your development). If it is real money gone, do yourself a big favour - painful though it is - and write the money off as a tuition fee. Fighting to get it back will almost inevitably only send you deeper in the mire.

Take a break and really learn and understand about expectancy, risk control, position sizing and trading account management. Develop some appropriate rules and bolt them so tight to your trading method so nothing can ever happen without risk management being the #1 priority and concern. Then, when you start again you will have a far better chance of success. Best of luck!
  • #168
  • May 9, 2019 7:14am May 9, 2019 7:14am
Quoting Oldtraderman
{quote} Hi Anthony, I happened across your journal and have found it an interesting and very honest account of starting out in trading. I don't know about your method but your account analysis as posted tells me a lot. If I understand it right, you had 11 consecutive wins and no losses to make $947 then in one day you are sitting on an open loss of $20,766? These numbers suggest there is probably something badly awry with either or both of the expectancy of your system and/or the risk control function. I suggest you really need to stop trading right...
Great words of inspiration, kudos to you sir!
  • #169
  • May 9, 2019 4:03pm May 9, 2019 4:03pm
Well thank you from the bottom of my heart to all the wonderful people who stopped by my little journal to offer their advice, encouragement and support. It really is greatly appreciated.

My $50,000 account was a free trial demo challenge account run by FTMO to see if I had what it took to take on a paid 1 month challenge to become a "FUND TRADER". That is my eventual goal but obviously, I am nowhere near ready yet!

I did have a $700 live account open and that has now been completely drained. This hurt very much as my family does not have much money and my wife trusted me with some of her savings based on my past 2 months results. I haven't cried by myself for many years but I have in the past 2 days. Makes me sick that I could have done that so easily with her hard earned money.

However, some of you may or may not know that I have a passion for boxing and occasionally "compete" in Masters tournaments. Occasionally winning, mostly losing. But I've always loved the mental strength that boxing gives you and how boxing, either competing or just training and how it shows you every day what is deep down inside of you.

I'm quickly finding out how trading is very similar in this way.

Protect Yourself at ALL times: HANDS UP = MANAGE RISK!!!

Throw accurate punches that find their TARGET = ENTRIES, ENTRIES ENTRIES and PUSH the BUTTON

STAY FOCUSED and AWARE = FLOW with the MARKET

I will be taking a NEW 2 WEEK FREE TRIAL CHALLENGE from next as soon as the GYM opens on MONDAY.

Inserted Video
Empty your mind and let the market guide you
  • #170
  • May 9, 2019 5:46pm May 9, 2019 5:46pm
Quoting SunnyCoast
Well thank you from the bottom of my heart to all the wonderful people who stopped by my little journal to offer their advice, encouragement and support. It really is greatly appreciated. My $50,000 account was a free trial demo challenge account run by FTMO to see if I had what it took to take on a paid 1 month challenge to become a "FUND TRADER". That is my eventual goal but obviously, I am nowhere near ready yet! I did have a $700 live account open and that has now been completely drained. This hurt very much as my family...
I feel sorry to read this post, seriously I do. As a fellow trader I know the road to success is difficult, extremely difficult to achieve. The cost is very, very high. And not only the trader pays for this cost, the family members pay for it as well. I have written a post that address this aspect on this forum to bring awareness of the high cost that's paid by every trader, successful or otherwise. This is the ugly side of forex trading that need to be told.

I truly respect your transparency. I salute you. Anyway if its any comfort to you, I too have lost plenty of accounts in my journey. It took me a very long time to learn the ropes. I am not the brightest, just the average Joe trader.

Unlike others who encourage you their way, I will not do that. Why ? Because I am unsure if you or anyone else who tries hard, extremely hard that give their all that's possible will eventually succeed. Given my own experience and what I do know now, I seriously don't know. Passion, hard work and commitment do not equate to success in this business. That's the hard truth.

I can only tell you what's true. The cost is very, very high. The journey is longer than your current expectation fraught with failures and difficulties. Success is not guaranteed. Financial trading is not suitable for everyone.

To achieve success you have to do things beyond your current self. You have to be brutally honest with yourself in all aspects of trading. Lack of honesty results in misguided paths. Ego has no place in this journey. Most important above all else, be aware of the high cost that must be paid. Make double, triple sure you want it, now that you know before you continue this journey. Cheers Jason
  • #171
  • May 9, 2019 6:21pm May 9, 2019 6:21pm
Quoting SunnyCoast
However, some of you may or may not know that I have a passion for boxing and occasionally "compete" in Masters tournaments. Occasionally winning, mostly losing. But I've always loved the mental strength that boxing gives you and how boxing, either competing or just training and how it shows you every day what is deep down inside of you.
With boxing, you trust your coach/trainer and all the support team because 'you know' them all. They will take care of you, give you sincere advice and take care your wounds physically and psychologically. You will not get that in this cruel financial world where 'sportiveness' is not the name of the game and when almost all of the participants of this game using mask so many kind of masks.

You could learn to follow someone else trading methodology, but for sure he/she is not your coach/personal trainer. they will not take care of you and if you asking for suggestion here in this forum, then suddenly you will get hundreds coaches that will fight each others about how great they are and only to make you more confusing.

So, never give up and keep learning but be yourself, build your own boxing style, known of your own strength and weaknesses.

Take care your own family Brother.

Wish you all the best
NIH
Dog + Smile = Beautiful Day
  • #172
  • May 10, 2019 3:32am May 10, 2019 3:32am
Quoting LongBTC
{quote} Hey Anthony, Do you care to explain where the big floating loss comes from? I'm currently also sitting on a pretty big floating loss from the GBP/JPY mainly. The MM took out way more zones then I anticipated. I'm still eagerly trying to figure out which tops and bottom they want to take out.
Hi Long BTC

Yes, same here. I just took the trades as I saw them and they just blew past my levels on the strong push down from Thursday.

I've now perhaps spent around 20 hours over the past few days going over the charts from all the trades I've taken so far and applied a few different methods of risk control which I think will help me going forward.

I will start a new $50k challenge next week and see if I get a more positive result.

Cheers

Anthony
Empty your mind and let the market guide you
  • #173
  • May 10, 2019 3:35am May 10, 2019 3:35am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} makes the balance curve pretty useless, is it? Anthony, myself i am also guilty time to time to place relative too big size trades on my account...even if i am 'convinced' that the price will move my way, i keep reminding myself that an over leveraged account can blow up, and 'eventually' being right on the direction wont save me from that, if run into margin issues. the only solution is to trade small, have a well thought out plan for how much exposure to put on, at what conditions to meet to add to the open trades, and if the account equity...
Hi Profitfarmer,

Thank you again for sharing your previous experiences and the advice to hone the weak areas of my trading.

I think I've come up with something rather "unique" to address all the areas that you mentioned so we will see how I go again over the next 2 weeks.

It has been an amazing opportunity for me to open my eyes and mind to what I need to see.

Cheers
Anthony
Empty your mind and let the market guide you
  • #174
  • May 10, 2019 3:39am May 10, 2019 3:39am
Quoting Frosty85
Wow, I hope you recover those floating losses, Anthony. I'm still on demo but I blew that account up on GBP/JPY today ....I understand it is from the over leverage. I was trading 0.5 lots on each entries....averaged down with 8 positions open....definitely too much, lol. I'm not sure how to calculate the lot size for each entry using George's method. Anybody care to explain? Thanks! Cheers, Al
Hi Al.

Looks like we hit that same wall on the GBP JPY. Yep, the day I went to 1% risk entries was the day it had to move that far against me. It didn't give me a chance even to exit at break even.

I've been studying like a demon over the past 3 days on how to manage risk, position sizing, better entries that suit me. George, after all, is a Master Trader so I need to find my own path to that destination. I am not George.

I believe I've come up with quite a comprehensive approach and we will see how it pans out over the next 2 weeks as I start a new challenge.

Cheers

Anthony
Empty your mind and let the market guide you
  • #175
  • May 10, 2019 3:46am May 10, 2019 3:46am
Quoting alexgvr
{quote} Hi Anthony, Honestly still could not really imagine .. is it real account? Hope you can recover that loss and apply all lessons learnt for the future. Regards Alexey
Hi Alexey,

Thanks for stopping by and offering a nice comment.

No, it was a trading challenge demo account, but I was sure treating it like real money.
However, I had a live $700 account which I was trading in the exact same way. It has now dwindled to almost zero in just a few days.

You bet I've learned some lessons. I certainly won't be paying for any trading education courses, I just got the real thing!!!
It has forced me to go deep into all aspects of my trading model and I'm starting to emerge with somethng quite "unique" and interesting.

I'll start a new 2 week challenge from next Monday and we will see what the results will be like then.

Cheers
Anthony
Empty your mind and let the market guide you
  • #176
  • May 10, 2019 3:48am May 10, 2019 3:48am
Quoting Freefox
{quote} Really sorry this has happened to you Anthony. But its happened to us all as part of our trading journey to success at some point. George included I'm sure. Money management is the key to long term successful trading regardless of the system you follow. Hope you learn from this and its doesn't hit you too hard. All the best for the drawdown recovery.
Freefox!! Thanks for stopping by nice to hear from you after a few months.

Thanks for the kind words and the advice on money management. It has been taken to heart and have had little sleep over the past few nights as I think pretty deeply about what needs to be done. I believe I've come up with something quite interesting and I will be testing it in the market over the next 2 weeks.

See how it goes.

Cheers

Anthony.
Empty your mind and let the market guide you
  • #177
  • May 10, 2019 3:53am May 10, 2019 3:53am
Quoting amundo
{quote} Sorry to hear that, Anthony, as others have asked, hope it wasn't a real account? I've been in this game long enough to know that the moment you think you've got it nailed, the Market will rip you a new one if you don't have proper money management in place. The three legs of the tripod: System, Psychology and Money Management - without all three it will eventually fall.
Hi Amundo.

I used your post, and specifically the tripod as a guide to look very deeply into how I've been trading and what I can learn from reading price on perhaps a whole different level.

We will see if I have learned anything over the next 2 weeks as I take on a 2nd challenge.
You know I'll post the results good or bad here as fear and ego is something I feel I've come to accept and control when I was in my thirties.

We both can become Masters at this, I know it!! Keep moving forward.

Cheers
Anthony
Empty your mind and let the market guide you
  • #178
  • May 10, 2019 4:50am May 10, 2019 4:50am
Quoting SunnyCoast
{quote} Hi Long BTC Yes, same here. I just took the trades as I saw them and they just blew past my levels on the strong push down from Thursday. I've now perhaps spent around 20 hours over the past few days going over the charts from all the trades I've taken so far and applied a few different methods of risk control which I think will help me going forward. I will start a new $50k challenge next week and see if I get a more positive result. Cheers Anthony
Hey Anthony,

I have to admit I was and still am in the same boat as you, they took out way more targets then I anticipated, eventually I switched to hedging short as my DD was going over 20% which is pretty big for me, definitely not used to it.

I hope you can find the leaks in your strategy and get back at it!

Best of luck to you.
  • #179
  • May 10, 2019 8:58pm May 10, 2019 8:58pm
thought i might come and ask you a question , when you have a winning trade

1. do you wait for tp to hit
2.do you tp when you feel profit is enough

the questions i put here i learnt 30 years ago so i will look forward to your answer , kindest regards to you
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #180
  • May 10, 2019 9:30pm May 10, 2019 9:30pm
Quoting Aussi
thought i might come and ask you a question , when you have a winning trade 1. do you wait for tp to hit 2.do you tp when you feel profit is enough the questions i put here i learnt 30 years ago so i will look forward to your answer , kindest regards to you
Hi Aussi.

Wonderful question!!

In March and April I had 93 trades on the GBP JPY.

Looking at the Account History I can see that only 9 of these hit their TARGET. The rest were all exited manually when I "FELT" "BELIEVED" that I had enough PROFIT.

Therefore, at this point of my trading journey it is easy to say that I am closing the majority of my trades based on a GUT FEELING more than anything.
I am still weak at reading price and unsure of where to set my trade targets.

I obviously have not been setting stop losses either. Hoping price will flow back in a day or a week.

I sincerely look forward to your comments. I remember back on FEB 26th you mentioned that I should take profits early but how early is too early?? lol.

From reflection of my past trades I can see that my Entries were quite good and often ran for much further than where I took profit.

Cheers
Anthony
Empty your mind and let the market guide you
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