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The Volume Detective 411 replies

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  • #781
  • May 5, 2019 4:43am May 5, 2019 4:43am
QUIZZ : Find the "Herd Validation Area"
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  • #782
  • May 5, 2019 4:47am May 5, 2019 4:47am
Quoting 4fxonly
{quote} Would you care to elaborate, please, my friend?
Hey @4fxonly -- all I meant was that it wasn't necessary to suggest that if @skyway didn't acquiesce to @moodybot's suggestion it was because he simply was protecting his pride. When you accuse someone of acting to simply protect their pride, that is a condescending. Just as if I were to suggest -- "hey, @4fxonly, why not set aside your pride and use this amazing indicator" -- probably wouldn't work, would it?

Similarly, @skyway could also have stated it was @moodybot who was protecting his pride because he couldn't let go that chatting with @George was the only way to go. It's possible it might not be the best way to go. No one knows for sure -- so why make one guy right and the other wrong? Well -- unless you have an agenda -- e.g. you want to make sure that @moodybot (and @George) know you are on their side. And there is nothing wrong with doing that -- except in this particular exchange between @skyway and @moodybot, by taking sides, your comment would only serve to make it more difficult for the two of them to find common ground. That's all I meant.
  • #783
  • Edited 2:59pm May 5, 2019 4:50am | Edited 2:59pm
This will be my last post on FF as I have been offered a job I could not turn down, I will be under NDA from tomorrow so I would like to make this quick point before I go. It might be useful or not. Consider that the market makers will be LONG and SHORT at the same time. They have VERY deep pockets and can sit under water for weeks or months at a stretch. I believe this is the reason we see wild corrective swings as they unwind their positions. It is possible to replicate this even with a retail account and NOT lose in the market. It is merely food for thought and will give you an idea about what I will be working on in the coming months. Do not let that idea distract you, but keep it in the back of your mind.

All the best to everyone. Over and out.

Kind Regards,
Paul
  • #784
  • May 5, 2019 4:52am May 5, 2019 4:52am
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  • #785
  • May 5, 2019 4:57am May 5, 2019 4:57am
Quoting TopCover
Hi Swingman do you have the link to “the Incredible Power of Closes”?
Hi Ray,
sure, I'm getting ready to program.

But I do not know if I should post it yet. I'm already feeling depressed after the last fifty posts where everyone criticizes the automatic drawing of lines in the sand, and praises the benefits of visual identification of interest areas.

I have to do first a FractalLevels test, and in my humble live account, enter an order of $100,000, and wait to be fished.
If I notice that this small sum is being eaten by the sharks which move trillions of dollars, then I do not program anything anymore. But if a profit arises, then I post it ...

Maybe we have to consider the problem from the other end, with reverse engineering:
- as a programmer hired by a big hedge fund, i have to move 100 million dollars a day and make profits.
- how should my algorithm work, how should I fish at 500.000 traders all their SLs and TPs etc.?
- do I make a statistic of all orders on order book Level II, or do I set price targets as wrong targets and traders get misinformed?
  • #786
  • Edited 6:02am May 5, 2019 5:13am | Edited 6:02am
Quoting SwingMan
{quote} Hi Ray, sure, I'm getting ready to program. But I do not know if I should post it yet. I'm already feeling depressed after the last fifty posts where everyone criticizes the automatic drawing of lines in the sand, and praises the benefits of visual identification of interest areas. I have to do first a FractalLevels test, and in my humble live account, enter an order of $100,000, and wait to be fished. If I notice that this small sum is being eaten by the sharks which move trillions of dollars, then I do not program anything anymore. But...
Hello @SwingMan -- please don't feel depressed. The vast majority of people do find value. The indicator is less than two weeks old. It would be unreasonable to expect it to mimic the discretionary, decision-making @George has accumulated over 20 years and 40000 hours of studying price charts.

You're an excellent programmer. You love to experiment and solve problems programmatically. Give it a go and see what shakes out. @SwingMan -- as always, thanks very much.
  • #787
  • May 5, 2019 5:19am May 5, 2019 5:19am
Quoting robots4me
Hello @SwingMan -- please don't feel depressed.
I know, I will try...
But remember the reverse engineering, maybe someone can bring ideas how the programs of the big players are designed!
  • #788
  • May 5, 2019 5:42am May 5, 2019 5:42am
Quoting swd
This will be my last post on FF as I have been offered a job I could not turn down, I will be under NDA from tomorrow so I would like to make this quick point before I go. It might be useful or not. Consider that the market makers will be LONG and SHORT at the same time. They have VERY deep pockets and can sit under water for weeks or months at a stretch. I believe this is the reason we see wild corrective swings as they unwind their positions. It is possible to replicate this even with a retail account and NOT lose in the market. It is merely food...
good Luck Paul and thanks for that

Ray
  • #789
  • May 5, 2019 5:49am May 5, 2019 5:49am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} Hello @SwingMan -- please don't feel depressed. The naysayers are few -- and even they are using our indicator. The vast majority of people do find value. For the naysayers to criticize an indicator that is less than two weeks old because it can't mimic the discretionary decision-making @George has accumulated over 20 years and 40000 hours of studying price charts is, well, ludicrous. I know their intentions are good -- but at this point they have a big investment in insisting an algorithmic approach won't work. I mean -- suppose an algorithmic...
Yes Swingman - keep the faith!

Your generosity will be rewarded and I think the collective ideas shared from you and Robots4me and the others have the power to develop something truly great!

We live in the 21st Century - people used to pore over paper charts mailed to them from Wall Street. The world has moved on and technology is removing tedium that used to the perceived badge and measure of “hard work”.

There is another way.....

Ray
  • #790
  • May 5, 2019 6:19am May 5, 2019 6:19am
Quoting parisboy
QUIZZ : Find the "Herd Validation Area" {image}

Parisboy....

I really wasn't going to bother with this thread again...but...your post is quite a poor attempt to show off.
So, you ask for Herd Mentality on GBPUSD...60 min...you show a line chart of spaghetti...between the date of 11th March and current day.
You ask .....Quizz ............for Herd Mentality.......I will show you.
Two mins of my time shows Herd Mentality that cannot be seen on a spaghetti mess.......

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to call.
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  • #791
  • May 5, 2019 6:29am May 5, 2019 6:29am
I just had a nice Skype text session with @George and we discussed a few issues. Out of respect to @George I wanted to pass these along.

1. In the past I've included @George in my responses to other members even though @George did not write anything. That was my error. In the future if / when one of @George's colleagues writes a post I'll treat that as strictly coming from them. My understanding now is @George would prefer to stay out of these discussions. Not that he doesn't find them entertaining reading during breakfast -- just that he doesn't want to get drawn into things or have comments attributed to him that he did not make.

2. I do not trade @George's methodology -- though I often refer to it. In fact, I'm not sure anyone trades @George's methodology except for @George. I have taken some ideas that I've learned from @George and synthesized them with other tools to come up with a "system" that I like today. I'm still experimenting and that system will likely change next week. And that's fine with me -- I'm constantly tinkering and trying new things. I do want to give @George credit where it is do, but also make clear that though we talk about MM psychology we should tread carefully when attributing trading details to @George. My intentions are good and I know yours are as well -- it's just that we should maintain the distinction between what is officially sanctioned by @George and what is not.

I think that's all for now. Over and out...
  • #792
  • May 5, 2019 6:35am May 5, 2019 6:35am
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Parisboy.... I really wasn't going to bother with this thread again...but...your post is quite a poor attempt to show off. So, you ask for Herd Mentality on GBPUSD...60 min...you show a line chart of spaghetti...between the date of 11th March and current day. You ask .....Quizz ............for Herd Mentality.......I will show you. Two mins of my time shows Herd Mentality that cannot be seen on a spaghetti mess....... If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to call. {image} {image} {image}
@moodybot

Why should a Herd Validation should exclusively be a straight horizontal line and not a curvilinear one ?
  • #793
  • May 5, 2019 6:35am May 5, 2019 6:35am
Quoting skyway
{quote} I feel depressed to read what you wrote swingman. You, NIH and Robots4me are fantastic coders whose job deserve the highest praise. Million likes ! ! ! Great people on FF ! ! ! We can't stop other people posting their viewpoints about anything. We respect that. But, we don't have to take their comments on-board unless they can prove it. Ofc, we are open minded to receive their proof. Until then, it's means nothing of value. Let it slide. In George's words, LET THE JOURNEY CONTINUE ! ! ! {image}
Hey @skyway -- thanks for the good words. I wouldn't worry about it. Guys who are passionate about coding and solving problems programmatically aren't about to give it up. The satisfaction that comes from seeing people use your creation (software) and find value is very powerful and counts for a lot. If it appears that @Nih98 or @SwingMan are beginning to slack off then I'll give them a nudge (or a kick) whichever works best.
  • #794
  • May 5, 2019 6:40am May 5, 2019 6:40am
Quoting SwingMan
{quote} Hi Ray, sure, I'm getting ready to program. But I do not know if I should post it yet. I'm already feeling depressed after the last fifty posts where everyone criticizes the automatic drawing of lines in the sand, and praises the benefits of visual identification of interest areas. I have to do first a FractalLevels test, and in my humble live account, enter an order of $100,000, and wait to be fished. If I notice that this small sum is being eaten by the sharks which move trillions of dollars, then I do not program anything anymore. But...
We support you Master @SwingMan, I admire your coding art since long time ago, just like Master Mladen. Maybe I'm new here in FF, but some of my old buddies still know my old soul..lol.

In my first 5 years carrier in this financial business, there's no internet and no computer(PC) at all. So my first job is 'drawer/chartist' for my Japanese Trader Sensei. Our 'tools' are several black boards on the wall, Telex Machine to receive incoming text data from Singaporean Brokerage, several architect drawing tables, Rulers in many size and types, pencils and of course the main important tool, 'eraser'. So, who can call me 'lazy' if all I do is drawing any lines with my hand in paper, not only the horizontal and vertical lines but also top and bottom lines, and also I draw all the candlestick charts by hand day by day, and yes that Simple Moving Average Lines too, and we make 3 copy of every incoming pairs data. So, even with what so called naked chart, I could imaginary draw lines from point A to point B and still could remember and could re-drawing what I see into paper candle by candle.

But after that, came PC era, with that bulky CRT green monitor that could only show text and spreadsheet named Lotus 123. My Japanese Trader Sensei tell me that there's no way we could move the way we draw paper chart into that silly computer. Until this point, of course I don't have any 'screen time' experience, but only 5 years 'paper time' experience. Then come GUI era with Windows for PC and Colorful CRT Monitor, and everything quickly change, the stock market use colorful monitor and graphic charts, and finally we give up and start to learn how to use Computerized Graphic Chart instead of keep drawing with hand on paper.. lol. So, I'm sure all of you could understand why even for now, this MT4 or MT5 default chart still use that green candlestick chart theme or black on white chart..lol.

Then I learn how to Code starting from mql3 for Meta Trade 3 and also learn Tradestation, until now I learn C# C++ and mql5 and create many tools for myself. So, from my 'paper time' and 'screen time' experience I could really sure that we need all this automation tools to help us doing more better than before, but of course we still need to know 'how to use it correctly' and also practice to sharpening the skill and experiences.

Sometimes I still riding horse, and enjoy the 'classic' experience but of course I prefer my Rubicon for daily movement.

Wish You All The Best Sir
NIH
Dog + Smile = Beautiful Day
  • #795
  • May 5, 2019 6:44am May 5, 2019 6:44am
Quoting Nih98
{quote} We support you Master @SwingMan, I admire your coding art since long time ago, just like Master Mladen. Maybe I'm new here in FF, but some of my old buddies still know my old soul..lol. In my first 5 years carrier in this financial business, there's no internet and no computer(PC) at all. So my first job is 'drawer' for my Japanese Trader Sensei. Our 'tools' are several black boards on the wall, Telex Machine to receive income text data from Singaporean Brokerage, several architect drawing tables, Rulers in many size and types, pencils and...
@Nih98 -- wow. In fact, double wow, wow!!
  • #796
  • May 5, 2019 6:52am May 5, 2019 6:52am
Quoting parisboy
{quote} @moodybot Why should a Herd Validation should exclusively be a straight horizontal line and not a curvilinear one ?

You asked for herd validation.
Your picture specifically asked for Herd validation on a mess of a chart x 2.
It was an attempt to take a pop at either George, myself or Georges theory.
I have answered your post. You got a bonus, 3 charts.
I suggest you zoom out, use candles and look at the real picture, it shows price action, stops, areas of interest that include entry and targets. Can't think that you would need anything else but do let me know if i missed anything.
Thank you.
  • #797
  • May 5, 2019 7:01am May 5, 2019 7:01am
@NIH - I can empathise with that. When I started it was papyrus and quill pens
  • #798
  • May 5, 2019 7:05am May 5, 2019 7:05am
Quoting swd
...Consider that the market makers will be LONG and SHORT at the same time.
- They have VERY deep pockets and can sit under water for weeks or months at a stretch. I believe this is the reason we see wild corrective swings as they unwind their positions.
- It is possible to replicate this even with a retail account and NOT lose in the market.
- It is merely food for thought and will give you an idea about what I will be working on in the coming months. Do not let that idea distract you, but keep in it...
Thank you Paul, it is exactly the confirmation and the answer to my question from before!
- Deep pockets have efficient trading programs that move the market
- Reverse engineering is possible
- The interest areas, herd territories, are not caused by traders but are programmed attractors
- There are programmers who work on such a thing, and not only draw lines with the mouse. To get it right you need a lot of time and patience to gain experience.
  • #799
  • May 5, 2019 7:05am May 5, 2019 7:05am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @giselle1723 -- I see charts with a lot of lines -- they look like my daughter's artwork from 20 years ago. Do you mind explaining what you are attempting to show? In particular, in terms of MM psychology.
hi,Master robots4me

I trade based on elliott wave, fractal and fibo. I have not been interested in MM psychology so far.
But I've read through this thread,and noticed that MM psychology might correspond with my way to trade.

D1 chart
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Lime line/weekly based wave
yelliw line/weekly fractal line
blue thick line/D1 fractal line
blue dashed line/D1 previous cycle fractal line
white thick line/4H break-point fractal line
white dashed line/4H previous cycle fractal line
white thin line/4H minor fractal line
magenta line/D1 break-point fractal line

4H chart
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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All you guys understand very well about elliott,AB=CD etc,so I don't explain about it.

blue line/4H based "shihai nami" I don't know what you say "shihai nami" in English,but maybe "dominant wave"
orange-red line/current "oya nami" I don't know what you say "oya nami" in English,but maybe "parental wave"

Current movement is still in dominant wave(wave 3),and failed to break dominant wave 3. I mean they hunt big long-stop at magenta line,then turn over. So I did long entry at white dashed line.White dashed line is the last retracement of dominant wave 3.
Next,I think they aim to hunt big short-stop at upper magenta line,then turn over downward at 50~61.8% retracement of current wave.
when I place an entry order,I pay attention to magenta line/white thick line/blue thick line as "target"

Thanks in advance
  • #800
  • May 5, 2019 7:32am May 5, 2019 7:32am
Quoting moodybot
{quote} You asked for herd validation. Your picture specifically asked for Herd validation on a mess of a chart x 2. It was an attempt to take a pop at either George, myself or Georges theory. I have answered your post. You got a bonus, 3 charts. I suggest you zoom out, use candles and look at the real picture, it shows price action, stops, areas of interest that include entry and targets. Can't think that you would need anything else but do let me know if i missed anything. Thank you.
He can also look at your answer and George's on page 181... https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=874421&page=181 .
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