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  • #761
  • May 5, 2019 2:02am May 5, 2019 2:02am
Quoting Pumi
{quote} I think deleting or not requires the human factor (judgement). Prior to deleting or making changes to the chart I take the top-down approach and review the charts from higher to lower time frames. In that way I am able to see what is still relevant and not. As i am still learning George's theory there are times I would be wrong and this helps me to understand why, and also that is why I am still sticking to drawing the lines manually (and I can do that better with fewer pairs).

Yep nailed it....Pumi...

Sounds like your on the right track with the correct thinking...

What NO indicator can do is impart discretion... And that's exactly what is involved when deciding whether or whether not to keep a line target or whatever you want to call it....

Discretion is key.

And yes drawing lines....by hand ! Makes one THINK...when connecting the dots to the puzzle.... And THINKING of how one price..one area ..one target connects to another is essential to learning the psychology of the market...

Well done Pumi !

Cheers
Blue
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #762
  • May 5, 2019 2:11am May 5, 2019 2:11am
Renko chart /8 bricks 50% shift
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1H chart
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4H chart
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  • #763
  • May 5, 2019 2:20am May 5, 2019 2:20am
Quoting Pumi
{quote} On point 3 I must say I also had more than 20 pairs and so far (since I have been exposed to MM Psychology and other MM methods) I have reduced them to just less than half. Why? I can see much better opportunities to make profits on fewer pairs. Of course I am drawing the lines manually and a little differently from the indicator (and possibly to George's way). I find too many lines blinding me on what is actually happening. Why don't you just test drive a few pairs for a week or two and just put the others aside? Perhaps you might see the...
@Pumi -- thanks for your comments.

But what do you mean you can see much better opportunities? Using @cja's dashboard, when I switch to a different pair it's like starting fresh. If you mean that certain pairs tend to lend themselves better to @Georges methodology then I would say -- okay, now this is sounding more interesting. But then I would also follow-up by asking what do you mean by lending themselves to better trading?

With regard to your analogy of class size -- I don't think that is the best analogy. The reason why smaller classes work better is (a) each child receives more personalized attention, and (b) there are fewer unruly kids like @skyway in the class to distract everyone else (and I hope @skyway knows I'm just kidding).

When I use @cja's dashboard I simply flip through the different pairs and within 30 seconds (or less) can decide whether I should look more closely or move on to the next pair. The human brain can process a lot of information very quickly if it knows what to look for. I'm hoping the Price Action Group will do a better job of teaching me what to look for and allow my brain to do the rest.
  • #764
  • May 5, 2019 2:26am May 5, 2019 2:26am
Quoting Pumi
{quote} I think deleting or not requires the human factor (judgement). Prior to deleting or making changes to the chart I take the top-down approach and review the charts from higher to lower time frames. In that way I am able to see what is still relevant and not. As i am still learning George's theory there are times I would be wrong and this helps me to understand why, and also that is why I am still sticking to drawing the lines manually (and I can do that better with fewer pairs).
@Pumi -- I agree 100%. And if I someone would articulate what additional rules to apply when making decisions to delete or not, then I would implement them and add them to the indicator. Even a human factor (judgmental, discretionary) rule can be coded. And it doesn't have to be perfect -- it just needs to be a little bit better than the previous version. Over time the database of rules begins to grow. This is how AI (artificial intelligence) works -- it's just a bunch of conditions and rules given a fancy name.
  • #765
  • May 5, 2019 2:39am May 5, 2019 2:39am
Quoting bluesteele
{quote} Yep nailed it....Pumi... Sounds like your on the right track with the correct thinking... What NO indicator can do is impart discretion... And that's exactly what is involved when deciding whether or whether not to keep a line target or whatever you want to call it.... Discretion is key. And yes drawing lines....by hand ! Makes one THINK...when connecting the dots to the puzzle.... And THINKING of how one price..one area ..one target connects to another is essential to learning the psychology of the market... Well done Pumi ! Cheers Blue...
Hello @bluesteele -- you say no indicator can impart discretion -- really?

Have you ever heard of AI or self-driving cars? Is it magic? Nope. Just a bunch of conditions and rules. When you drive you are constantly making discretionary decisions -- right?

I think where you guys are misguided is you believe discretionary and algorithmic are mutually exclusive -- they are not. I'll say it again -- discretionary and algorithmic are NOT mutually exclusive. I don't know where someone would pick that up. We are surrounded by machines and automation that make "discretionary decisions". A hundred years ago most people would have said a driver-less car was impossible. Or, how about an airplane on auto-pilot. Or how about in the medical field and all the procedures that are partially or fully carried out my medical devices and the algorithms that drive their decision making. And we both could go on and on about more examples -- just think about it.
  • #766
  • May 5, 2019 2:39am May 5, 2019 2:39am
Quoting BlackStack
@Moodybot, On your post that you deleted here and put on George's thread, I assume that the herd mentality at points 1 to 5 would be to sell. After a 300 pip down move why would they still be holding their sell orders instead of taking a 300 pip profit? If they held then yeah, they would have their stops taken out, but doesn't make sense to keep holding after such a steep reversal and price is moving back to where they sold from. And where you say that the buyers are cleaned out at point 7, why would they still be holding their buy orders (from...
Put two horizontal lines on H4, one at 1.2958 and other at 1.2937 starting from 13/02/19 and see those lines as a thick single line. That's where most orders (POSSIBLY) of stoplosses of long trades since February and short breakout traders sit. I say possibly because no retail traders (including George, myself or anyone) can see these orders in fact. After making this assumption, then it is easy to trade it. Is it fool proof? No, look at what happened on Friday for short MM psychology trades (more than 100 pips opposite move where price entered TMA, and more than 70 pips opposite move from weekly top) but as long as you have your money/trade management rules in place and of course some filters, you are relatively safe to trade this way. Btw, the date of March 19th on moody's deleted post for item 6 should be, IMO, Feb 19th as he is talking about possible short targets for possible short trades from points 1 to 4.

Regards,
Blackeagle
  • #767
  • May 5, 2019 2:41am May 5, 2019 2:41am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @Pumi -- I agree 100%. And if I someone would articulate what additional rules to apply when making decisions to delete or not, then I would implement them and add them to the indicator. Even a human factor (judgmental, discretionary) rule can be coded. And it doesn't have to be perfect -- it just needs to be a little bit better than the previous version. Over time the database of rules begins to grow. This is how AI (artificial intelligence) works -- it's just a bunch of conditions and rules given a fancy name.
Why stop at an indicator, what about an ea. Those 1 minute spikes could be automated.
Get sore eyes watching 1 minute chart. Especially if planning to trade multiple pairs same time.
  • #768
  • May 5, 2019 2:43am May 5, 2019 2:43am
Quoting giselle1723
Renko chart /8 bricks 50% shift {image} 1H chart {image} 4H chart {image}
@giselle1723 -- I see charts with a lot of lines -- they look like my daughter's artwork from 20 years ago. Do you mind explaining what you are attempting to show? In particular, in terms of MM psychology.
  • #769
  • May 5, 2019 2:49am May 5, 2019 2:49am
Quoting bluesteele
{quote} Yep nailed it....Pumi... Sounds like your on the right track with the correct thinking... What NO indicator can do is impart discretion... And that's exactly what is involved when deciding whether or whether not to keep a line target or whatever you want to call it.... Discretion is key. And yes drawing lines....by hand ! Makes one THINK...when connecting the dots to the puzzle.... And THINKING of how one price..one area ..one target connects to another is essential to learning the psychology of the market... Well done Pumi ! Cheers Blue...
@bluesteele -- do we really need a cheering section? I agree that doing things manually makes one think.

So -- with your next by-pass operation (and I'm using that as an example, I don't have any clue about your medical history) -- you are going to tell the surgeon to remove all the medical equipment from the room and perform the surgery like they did 70 years ago. That he / she needs to really think about what they are about to do. Really?
  • #770
  • May 5, 2019 2:54am May 5, 2019 2:54am
Quoting Pip-Miner
{quote} Why stop at an indicator, what about an ea. Those 1 minute spikes could be automated. Get sore eyes watching 1 minute chart. Especially if planning to trade multiple pairs same time.
@Pip-Miner -- you are jumping the gun. Yes, of course, an EA could be in the works.

Wait a minute -- don't I recall @George or @moodybot mentioning an EA they had developed?

This is what makes my brain implode. On one hand, the Price Action Group beats the drum that indicators and algorithms are useless. But then they'll mention their amazing EA. Like -- how is one's brain suppose to process these mixed messages?
  • #771
  • May 5, 2019 2:57am May 5, 2019 2:57am
Quoting Blackeagle
{quote} Put two horizontal lines on H4, one at 1.2958 and other at 1.2937 starting from 13/02/19 and see those lines as a thick single line. That's where most orders (POSSIBLY) of stoplosses of long trades since February and short breakout traders sit. I say possibly because no retail traders (including George, myself or anyone) can see these orders in fact. After making this assumption, then it is easy to trade it. Is it fool proof? No, look at what happened on Friday for short MM psychology trades (more than 100 pips opposite move where price...
This herd mentality theory seems to assume that a stop loss is put on and then never moved or the trades are never closed for profit. Who is this herd anyway? The retail traders? Retail traders put 10 to 20 pip stop losses on and move them up as price moves up, and visa versa. Is the herd the banks and hedge funds then?

Was it the MM that started the price to move up out of point 7 on the moodybot chart, or was it the sellers from points 1 to 5 starting to close their trades? Closing a sell order is a buy order. And as the price came closer to any remaining stops at points 1 to 7 the price started to move up faster as those orders to close their sell positions started to come in faster.
  • #772
  • May 5, 2019 2:59am May 5, 2019 2:59am
By the way -- people should visit @Georges thread -- here's a link:
https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=12254531#post12254531

@moodybot and @George have been posting more charts that help a lot.

This is @George's story and to the extent he and his colleagues are willing to share it then they are the best source. And they deserve all the credit.

If / when they are curious about the possibility of automating certain aspects then I'm hoping they would approach me.
  • #773
  • May 5, 2019 3:16am May 5, 2019 3:16am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @Pip-Miner -- you are jumping the gun. Yes, of course, an EA could be in the works. Wait a minute -- don't I recall @George or @moodybot mentioning an EA they had developed? This is what makes my brain implode. On one hand, the Price Action Group beats the drum that indicators and algorithms are useless. But then they'll mention their amazing EA. Like -- how is one's brain suppose to process these mixed messages?
I know the spikes can be automated with simple tma price cuts. The rest is unknown.
-Tma settings require special configurations. Best pair, time frame .
-mm algorithm logic rules. As mentioned large gaps.
-Ea if already built would help to verify strategy.
3)If the mm algorithm logic is known it should logically work all the time until it’s changed.
  • #774
  • May 5, 2019 3:22am May 5, 2019 3:22am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @4fxonly -- not so helpful. The same could be said for the other side...
Would you care to elaborate, please, my friend?
  • #775
  • May 5, 2019 3:37am May 5, 2019 3:37am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} Hello @bluesteele -- you say no indicator can impart discretion -- really? Have you ever heard of AI or self-driving cars? Is it magic? Nope. Just a bunch of conditions and rules. When you drive you are constantly making discretionary decisions -- right? I think where you guys are misguided is you believe discretionary and algorithmic are mutually exclusive -- they are not. I'll say it again -- discretionary and algorithmic are NOT mutually exclusive. I don't know where someone would pick that up. We are surrounded by machines and automation...
No indicator will impart the discretion and experience that for ex. George uses... Aint gonna happen my friend..
What you are asking is a monumental task.. Or an EA... First you have to be a very damn good trader to
be able to develop an EA....Why do near all EAs fail ? because they are developed by failed traders...

And as for AI..ya slightly familiar with it...
But there are many situations where you would never want to have your Car/Tesla on autopilot.

And although im no Pilot I am sure there are many times when the Pilot needs to be in full control... Such as a take off... even tho
i do understand planes can take off themselves...

The bottomline Robot is this...Your barking up the wrong tree... For all the lengthy thought out replies..your trading IQ could have been
incresased by studying the charts rather than endless hours typing looking for a shortcut IMHO... Because in essence that is what you are asking
for.....Why have I had great succes with Georges methods... BECAUSE of my prior many many years of experience. thats it !!!
No shortcuts... No hacks.... Nothing.... It takes time...especially for grasping what George lays out.

What you are asking for is a course/education in trading and thus you can code it...

Learn to be a trader not a coder....

And if you dont want to sit in front of your screen trading but rather typing .... Trade a different style than Georges..
Trade the 4hr and the Daily ! WHY NOT ?

Why go on and on....If I were you I would stop wasting your precious time.. AND I MEAN THIS VERY SINCERELY !!!!

There are systems and methods with higher TFs that require less screen time and are far less complex than Georges
methodologies... are they as good HELL NO.....but you know what they produce "good enough" returns...

Because thats what your after... Just "good enough"...With Georges ways...its not just good enough..ITS PRECISION !!

Listen to me as I am being very sincere...Stop wasting your time...This thread will lead you nowhere but wasted time.
Hundreds of hours you will never get back.. Its the same old story repeated on FF....The search for the elusive Indi...

As Susan Powter used to say in here Infomercials... STOP THE MADNESS !!!

Look elsewhere my friend for the "just good enough" your looking for....... you need to be trading something
vastly different than this....

And Yes there is an algo to this market...ran by the MM.... extremely precise to the pip. Which i have witnessed
with others prove itself..OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN... On all TFs on all pairs... But the truth is no one will share the intimate details of this.
and its far more than these lines and TMAs etc.

mmmm and let me say this one last tidbit for you to mull over.... What George has shown regarding the algos of the market.
I have never ever seen anywhere ..Not once have i seen these "conditions" ever mentioned once on this forum or any other forum.
Nothing...Ive tried googling it myself...there is nothing out there... No books....no youtube vids....absolutely no mention anywhere
I can find....Isnt that amazing !!!!!!

Now do you understand why I say forget it...look elesehwere for a different trading style....Something just good enough for good enough
returns. Because there is no way anyone else will decipher this.. Oh and I will give you this..all you need is a completely naked chart to see
what I am referring too.... Sorry to be a party pooper.. Cryptic messages and all.


Cheers
Blue
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #776
  • May 5, 2019 3:40am May 5, 2019 3:40am
Quoting BlackStack
{quote} This herd mentality theory seems to assume that a stop loss is put on and then never moved or the trades are never closed for profit. Who is this herd anyway? The retail traders? Retail traders put 10 to 20 pip stop losses on and move them up as price moves up, and visa versa. Is the herd the banks and hedge funds then? Was it the MM that started the price to move up out of point 7 on the moodybot chart, or was it the sellers from points 1 to 5 starting to close their trades? Closing a sell order is a buy order. And as the price came closer...
It does not matter who the herd is. Market makers only see where the bulk of orders sit and then play accordingly. If your limit or stop order sits within those orders, you are a part of the herd. If an exporter's/importer's order sits there, he is the herd, if the order of a Citibank's treasury department's trader sits there, it is the herd. You do not need to worry who the herd is. You need to study your chart and try to find (guess) where the bulk of these orders sit.
Re. second part of your question, nobody can know for sure who moved the price up from April 25th low as there are too many players in forex market as I have explained in one of my previous posts here. And to be honest I don't care who moved it. But I took my note (by putting a horizontal line there) as that price level may represent itself as an area of interest in the future. The idea is to find those areas of interests and interpret the price action around them. Hope this helps.

Regards,
Blackeagle
  • #777
  • May 5, 2019 3:59am May 5, 2019 3:59am
Quoting 4fxonly
@robots4me Hello mate. I haven't posted in a while although I have followed the recent developments in your thread. I would like to express a few thoughts. I see you have implemented so many features and the MTF lines as well. While at a first glance the latter might seem to offer some further advantage, at a more attentive analysis it does not. In fact to my personal way of trading it makes things more difficult. I loaded it once, observed it and discarded it soon after. The reasons? 1 - Too much information 2 - Not enough information Let me start...
@4fxonly -- yes, it's been awhile. Good to hear from you -- I think...

I don't necessarily agree / disagree with your points -- all are valid. But I'm not going to let you escape so easily.

First -- some brief context -- you were one of the first to critique version 1 of the indicator and your comments and persistence led to later versions that were much improved. So, in my book, you can do no wrong and I give extra thought to your comments.

1. Too much information
"the chart has become literally crowded with lines and dots" -- okay, but you do know the buttons along the left-hand side allow for toggling lines ON / OFF. The MTF feature is important -- even the Price Action Group would acknowledge that. Whether lines are drawn exactly as they would like -- well, that's a separate issue. But in terms of clutter I think the indicator is pretty flexible in terms of allowing someone to tailer the appearance as they wish. Keep in mind, as with any software, it is not possible to please all the people all the time.

2. Not enough information
Yes -- we need more rules to better approximate discretionary deleting of lines. Again, the buttons along the left-hand side go part-way to address that. I've also posted a few times that I am open to adding additional rules. If a human can articulate a rule in writing, then it can be coded. And you have alluded to a few possibilities. If you were to claim it is impossible to articulate rules, then that means drawing lines are 100% subjective -- and given the same chart a few hours apart even you would draw lines differently. The fact that @George can convey to you when to keep or delete lines proves this can be articulated and communicated to another human. This also means it can be coded. Even though I'm older than all you young whipper-snappers, it boggles my mind about how clueless y'all are about software engineering and what can / can't be encoded algorithmically.

As for using the indicator in a single TF -- of course, if that's what you'd like. And the latest version is capable of being used that way as well. It is highly customizable and you can save / load your preferred settings by using a *.set file. I don't see why you consider this an issue.


Quote
I'm happy enough to stick to George's original idea as it's still consistent for me after 5 months despite my limited knowledge and understanding.
@4fxonly -- I don't mean to use you as a poster child to make a point -- but your comment touches a hot issue that is currently in play.

You say you've been trading @George's idea over 5 months yet consider your knowledge and understanding limited. Seriously, I can't believe someone as intelligent as you would say something like that. Medical students can specialize in brain surgery and come away with a better understanding in less time than you've been trading @George's idea. And trading forex is not brain surgery -- at least I don't think it is. Why is it that you guys are perfectly content to know so little after so much time? I would think most people who have spent 5 months studying something would have higher expectations both of the teachers and of themselves. This isn't meant to be an insult -- it's just I've never encountered that type of thinking before. And I've been around the block a few times. If it has taken so long to learn so little -- that doesn't raise any flags? I don't mean in terms of the validity of @George's methodology but, rather, the way you are going about learning it. 5 months is a long time to come away with so little.
  • #778
  • May 5, 2019 4:23am May 5, 2019 4:23am
QUIZZ : Where is the Herd ?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPUSD WHERE IS THE HERD.png Size: 4.2 MB
  • #779
  • May 5, 2019 4:26am May 5, 2019 4:26am
Can we just keep it simple.

Rather than posting a chart, I will make a template going back say 6 months worth of manual trading on one pair where all EP/TP/SL will be shown.

It will follow simple rules and at the end of the period should show green pips (otherwise it is not worth trading).

We need a strategy that anyone can follow, based on the tools we have (indicators) we do not need to be Rocket Scientists to trade Forex, we just need discipline and good money management.

We can only control 2 things in trading EP (where we place a trade) and SL (how much we want to lose), I would say most good setups will go into profit more than 50% of the time, but lots of traders are guilty of not moving their SL to BE (plus say 3 pips to cover the costs of opening the trade) once this it done you have a free trade, if your stop gets taken out so what its cost you nothing and there are thousands more trades to be opened.

I have no problem trading manually, but because I live in Australia it makes for long nights, so the EA's that I have developed over the years work great.

There are many EA's that make money, but only EA's that are not geared to one set of market conditions work all of the time.

Regards

RT
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
  • #780
  • May 5, 2019 4:29am May 5, 2019 4:29am
Quoting bluesteele
{quote}
Quote
No indicator will impart the discretion and experience that for ex. George uses.
.. Aint gonna happen my friend.. What you are asking is a monumental task.. Or an EA... First you have to be a very damn good trader to be able to develop an EA....Why do near all EAs fail ? because they are developed by failed traders... And as for AI..ya slightly familiar with it... But there are many situations where you would never want to have your Car/Tesla on autopilot. And although im no Pilot I am sure there are many times when the Pilot needs to be in full control... Such as a take off... even tho i do understand planes can take off themselves... The bottomline Robot is this...Your barking up the wrong tree... For all the lengthy thought out replies..your trading IQ could have been incresased by studying the charts rather than endless hours typing looking for a shortcut IMHO... Because in essence that is what you are asking for.....Why have I had great succes with Georges methods... BECAUSE of my prior many many years of experience. thats it !!! No shortcuts... No hacks.... Nothing.... It takes time...especially for grasping what George lays out. What you are asking for is a course/education in trading and thus you can code it... Learn to be a trader not a coder.... And if you dont want to sit in front of your screen trading but rather typing .... Trade a different style than Georges.. Trade the 4hr and the Daily ! WHY NOT ? Why go on and on....If I were you I would stop wasting your precious time.. AND I MEAN THIS VERY SINCERELY !!!! There are systems and methods with higher TFs that require less screen time and are far less complex than Georges methodologies... are they as good HELL NO.....but you know what they produce "good enough" returns... Because thats what your after... Just "good enough"...With Georges ways...its not just good enough..ITS PRECISION !! Listen to me as I am being very sincere...Stop wasting your time...This thread will lead you nowhere but wasted time. Hundreds of hours you will never get back.. Its the same old story repeated on FF....The search for the elusive Indi... As Susan Powter used to say in here Infomercials... STOP THE MADNESS !!! Look elsewhere my friend for the "just good enough" your looking for....... you need to be trading something vastly different than this.... And Yes there is an algo to this market...ran by the MM.... extremely precise to the pip. Which i have witnessed with others prove itself..OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN... On all TFs on all pairs... But the truth is no one will share the intimate details of this. and its far more than these lines and TMAs etc. mmmm and let me say this one last tidbit for you to mull over.... What George has shown regarding the algos of the market. I have never ever seen anywhere ..Not once have i seen these "conditions" ever mentioned once on this forum or any other forum. Nothing...Ive tried googling it myself...there is nothing out there... No books....no youtube vids....absolutely no mention anywhere I can find....Isnt that amazing !!!!!! Now do you understand why I say forget it...look elesehwere for a different trading style....Something just good enough for good enough returns. Because there is no way anyone else will decipher this.. Oh and I will give you this..all you need is a completely naked chart to see what I am referring too.... Sorry to be a party pooper.. Cryptic messages and all. Cheers Blue
@bluesteele -- thank you for hanging in there with me and discussing this further.

Quote
No indicator will impart the discretion and experience that for ex. George uses.
Agreed.

Quote
you have to be a very damn good trader to be able to develop an EA
Agreed. But this is not an EA -- it is an indicator. Since it doesn't generate Entry / Exit signals, then there is a huge difference. But let me remind you that both @George and @moodybot have mentioned before they are working on an EA. So, here you say it's not possible, but then they say it is. Like -- why do you keep glossing over this inconsistency. It's stuff like this that confuses the hell out of people.

Quote
But there are many situations where you would never want to have your Car/Tesla on autopilot.
I agree. However, we are way past that. There are many cars and trucks on the road currently using that technology and there will be more. It's a done deal -- why would you question it?

Quote
Your barking up the wrong tree...
This doesn't help. Just as if I were to say "you missed the boat". Can't we stay away from these generalized statements unless they can be backed up with evidence or an example.

Quote
your trading IQ could have been incresased by studying the charts rather than endless hours typing looking for a shortcut
I disagree. You've spent way more hours studying charts than the few hours I spent on the indicator. Plus, the indicator has proven valuable to other people. Let me ask you this -- who else has benefited from your hours of studying besides you?

Quote
Learn to be a trader not a coder
I Sort of agree. I'm already a coder and I do want to learn -- but you guys make it so painful. And when someone points that out you'll respond it's suppose to be painful, otherwise that person must be lazy. That's the part I disagree with. I think it is a huge, huge mistake to make learning difficult. Learning does not have to be difficult or painful. Yes -- it was for @George, but it doesn't have to be for others if you want to succeed in passing it along. I don't have the studies in front of me, but I'm pretty sure there are studies published in clinical psychology journals that would have dismissed that notion many decades ago -- that is, painful learning is the best type of learning.

Quote
And if you dont want to sit in front of your screen trading but rather typing .... Trade a different style than Georges..
I do trade a different style -- isn't that clear? Haven't I mentioned it a zillion times how much I am indebted to @George. How much I've learned from @George. Asking people not to bash @George. Gee whiz, what more do I have to do? Bow down at some alter? I try to extract as many gems as @George is willing to share and incorporate them into my trading. You're doing the same thing, right? @moodybot is doing the same thing, right? But you guys have the benefit of sitting with @George on a daily basis, whereas the rest of us don't. Don't you see how that might make a difference? Unless you are willing to claim you trade exactly like @George then all of us who are not @George are in the same boat -- but to varying degrees.

Again -- thanks @bluesteele. You're a true gentleman. Another benefit you've gained since your friendship with @George.
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