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(binned per thread starter’s request) MM (Money Maker) Detective

  • #681
  • May 4, 2019 3:44am May 4, 2019 3:44am
Quoting TopCover
{quote} pumi - excellent post - I’ve read and re-read several times and get something new each time - it’s very well explained. thanks Ray
Deja Vu! It seems some posts keep on disappearing on Saturdays (GMT +2).

Now I get your question. I think your Post #680 (deleted post - see attachment) makes it clear.

As a student I always have to refer to what George said and try my best to interpret what he said.

I think the answer to your questions lies on George's Post #419 - page 29 (see attachment): https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=874421&page=21

The market is fractal. Deleting can therefore be dangerous. Perhaps prior to deleting or removing a line (or making any changes) it might help to do a top-down review of the charts first (from higher time-frame to lower).
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  • #682
  • May 4, 2019 3:48am May 4, 2019 3:48am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} .... We've been using the term "MM psychology" but, really, what does that mean? I get what @George is referring to, but "MM" is an abstract concept and it doesn't have a psychology. I can't hold MM in my hand, or point at it or draw it. And only a human mind can have a psychology. What really is happening behind the scenes is a foreign exchange like ICE (Intercontinental Exchange) or CME (Chicago Mercantile Exchange) needs to fill orders at a certain price and, so, prices are manipulated -- or something like that. I'm not sure what drives...
Spot on. 110% correct, IMO. There are too many factors affecting daily price fluctuations of FX rates such as billion dollars worth of Mergers/Acquisitions, export/import deals, fundamental changes (politics, economics), Swaps, Options, Oil Prices, Gold Prices, Equity markets etc. and of course what we are doing here, Speculation. Assuming MM is controlling all these and driving the prices wherever it wants is such a great imagination!!!. This does not mean I don't believe in psychology in the business of Speculation. And it can be traded profitably as George showed in his thread. I see it as a tradable pattern similar to Trader Vic's 2B pattern but in a broader range including multi time frame price action and market analysis. Whatever strategy / pattern / system you are trading, the most important thing is that you should have your STRICT money management rules in place and you should apply them without hesitation. The main objective of a speculator is to stay in the game and then try to profit.

Regards,
Blackeagle
  • #683
  • May 4, 2019 3:51am May 4, 2019 3:51am
Quoting skyway
{quote} When the "leader" use the term MM psychology as though it's a living entity that drives world economy, the mostly pa crowd buys into it no one dares to challenge that else they face the wrath of the mob. Live and let live, no point disturb the peace. Simply take it as a means of communication.
It is not just George:

”…all the fluctuations in the market and in all the various stocks should be studied as if they were the result of one man’s operations. Let us call him the Composite Man, who, in theory, sits behind the scenes and manipulates the stocks to your disadvantage if you do not understand the game as he plays it; and to your great profit if you do understand it.” (The Richard D. Wyckoff Course in Stock Market Science and Technique, section 9, p. 1-2)
  • #684
  • May 4, 2019 3:59am May 4, 2019 3:59am
Quoting skyway
{quote} When the "leader" use the term MM psychology as though it's a living entity, the mostly pa crowd buys into it no one dares to challenge that else they face the wrath of the mob. Live and let live, no point disturb the peace.
@skyway -- again, I know what you mean but I think you're wrong. I didn't "buy into it" and I didn't face the wrath of a mob. Instead, I kept getting invitations to chat with @George -- just as you have.

Look it -- "MM psychology" is just an expression. It represents something more complicated that I'm not sure anyone here really knows. Just as when I exaggerate, I don't really expect people to necessarily take what I say literally. And I think that's @George's intention as well. I understand only a small portion of @George's message -- but I'm okay with that now. In my book I give him a ton of slack -- not that he needs any from me (I mean, who am I to be offering slack to someone who knows 100x more than me). And that's because I know his intentions are honorable and good. I know he gets frustrated but he keeps putting it out there -- yet he doesn't have to. Would it really be so terrible to give him credit, even just for that? And, BTW, if you can't give a man credit for stepping into the center of a public arena and risking contempt from the spectators, then that really says more about you than him -- think about it...
  • #685
  • May 4, 2019 4:04am May 4, 2019 4:04am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} {quote} @TopCover -- OMG, it's like the movie Matrix. It's all a simulation. They know our every move -- except for @George's
R4me - and the music playing in the background is “Good Vibrations” by the Beach Boys lol
  • #686
  • May 4, 2019 4:27am May 4, 2019 4:27am
IMHO Market Maker.. the name explain itself, the main job is 'make the market' and psychology term mostly related to human 'feeling' about something.
Market Maker Psychology maybe more understandable if we look as Market Maker strategy to use human mass psychology as their advantage.

Most of us are psychologically contrarian, usually we look at every current tip of top wick as HH or current tip of bottom wick as LL. This mass human psychology behaviors(base of fear and greed) 'manipulated' by Market Maker with 'price action' dance that luring both sides (buyers and sellers in every levels) get into the market, and trapped in the mercy of next MM move. So, if you 'train yourself' to watch this 'price action' dance long enough with your charting/screen time, then your 'eye' and 'brain' will start to build 'natural fractal' photographic mind that will recognize which one is the 'luring time' and which one is the MM final move.

Regards
NIH
Dog + Smile = Beautiful Day
  • #687
  • May 4, 2019 4:30am May 4, 2019 4:30am
Quoting Pumi
{quote} It is not just George: ”…all the fluctuations in the market and in all the various stocks should be studied as if they were the result of one man’s operations. Let us call him the Composite Man, who, in theory, sits behind the scenes and manipulates the stocks to your disadvantage if you do not understand the game as he plays it; and to your great profit if you do understand it.” (The Richard D. Wyckoff Course in Stock Market Science and Technique, section 9, p. 1-2)
Pumi - I spent a long time reading Wycoff and his “Jumping the creek” and “Falling through the ice” - there is a definite connection with George’s approach.
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  • #688
  • May 4, 2019 4:49am May 4, 2019 4:49am
Quoting TopCover
{quote} Pumi - I spent a long time reading Wycoff and his “Jumping the creek” and “Falling through the ice” - there is a definite connection with George’s approach. {image}

Yes, I suggested that in one of my previous posts (that part of his strategy is to exploit the "Spring"). I have been studying the Wyckoff Method for some time now but I think George has made it much more clearer on some of the things that Wyckoff presented. So his theories fits well for me (in addition I also studied Steve Mauro's BTMM - so you can add one plus one, all talk about the same "entity/man").

Hats off to robots4me for creating this thread! Without it I might have not taken interest on George's work and theories (as his title has PA and not MM and I think "PA" has been exhausted - too many threads/forums/groups).
  • #689
  • May 4, 2019 5:29am May 4, 2019 5:29am
Quoting Nih98
IMHO Market Maker.. the name explain itself, the main job is 'make the market' and psychology term mostly related to human 'feeling' about something. Market Maker Psychology maybe more understandable if we look as Market Maker strategy to use human mass psychology as their advantage. Most of us are psychologically contrarian, usually we look at every current tip of top wick as HH or current tip of bottom wick as LL. This mass human psychology behaviors(base of fear and greed) 'manipulated' by Market Maker with 'price action' dance that luring both...

Hi NIH,

You are a genius. I hope I had your brains.


Rajnidas
  • #690
  • May 4, 2019 5:31am May 4, 2019 5:31am
Quoting moodybot
My take on Rocket Science.....CJ H4......... Will it pan out as such, have to wait and see, patience. {image}
Hi Moody,

Now I know what a liquidity gap is. George mentioned it in one of his very recent posts and I was scratching my head for an answer.

This was lesson 1. When will we get to read the subsequent lessons?

Thank you

Rajnidas
  • #691
  • May 4, 2019 5:37am May 4, 2019 5:37am
Quoting Nih98
IMHO Market Maker.. the name explain itself, the main job is 'make the market' and psychology term mostly related to human 'feeling' about something. Market Maker Psychology maybe more understandable if we look as Market Maker strategy to use human mass psychology as their advantage. Most of us are psychologically contrarian, usually we look at every current tip of top wick as HH or current tip of bottom wick as LL. This mass human psychology behaviors(base of fear and greed) 'manipulated' by Market Maker with 'price action' dance that luring both...
NiH98 uses the term "The Price Action Dance" - Love it! This is how I see it and the seduction that takes place - through the lens of the Line Chart study that RickM introduced us to...

There is an opportunity for us to trade profitably as the Algo wrecks havoc on unsuspecting traders.....

EDIT: The line chart shows us the intention while everyone else is looking at candles where the intention is not so clear.
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  • #692
  • May 4, 2019 5:49am May 4, 2019 5:49am
Quoting TopCover
{quote} Pumi - I spent a long time reading Wycoff and his “Jumping the creek” and “Falling through the ice” - there is a definite connection with George’s approach. {image}
The vibration pattern is the pattern I find most interesting here In accumulation and distribution during spring. This video does a good job in the first half. The pattern is created by the mm Algo to fill orders to suit mm desired price movement, which is against retail traders.

https://youtu.be/h1WaZHO7C3k
  • #693
  • May 4, 2019 5:55am May 4, 2019 5:55am
Quoting SwingMan
See "Incredible power of closes..." TopCover: https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=12253590#post12253590 There is a rule to identify manipulated prices if e.g. a high price is achieved with little volume. When in a price zone are negotiated many volumes, then this is the normal case. For this reason one can consider the long wicks as possible manipulations. So, you can ignore them. If you want to test - here is a pic of the FractalLevels indicator that consider only the closes! {image}
Hi Swingman do you have the link to “the Incredible Power of Closes”?

thanks

Ray
  • #694
  • Edited 7:52am May 4, 2019 5:55am | Edited 7:52am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @parisboy -- I browsed through the Power Points and sort of got a flavor. A couple of questions:

1. Regarding the use of parabolics -- to me that is curve-fitting, after the fact. I've done a lot of data analysis of RF spectrum data -- and we chart the data in different ways to enhance weak signals. I mean, if I can solve for the constants then I can get a polynomial equation to fit all kinds of data patterns, right? So, what is so significant about fitting parabolic curves to price data -- after the fact. If you could send me the constants...
@robots4me I have identified the flaws you and some others on this thread or @george thread are suffering !

Do not worry these are some very usual and common traders diseases

a) - the repainting syndrome
b) - the after the fact / curve fitting syndrome

I will treat the "repainting syndrome" in a later post showing what is really the consequence of alleged "repainting" and the practical approximation mean I have used to fill the "lagging part" of envelopes , moving averages etc to try to dissipate "the fog of trading" (Clausewitz )

On this post I will focus on Fibonacci and the "after the fact" syndrome

a) "After the fact" analysis shows that up and down Price Action trends are visually most of the time "parabolic"
b) Fibonacci serie is graphically parabolic
c) Graphic Fibonnaci serie mimics a parabol, then the Price Action

Note that the key point with Fibonacci is not the known serie which is only a particular condition of this serie with the starting point = 1. The key point with "Fibonacci" is the relationship between numbers within the serie

Take randomly 2 numbers , apply them the Fibo relationship, after 10 / 12 occurences you get the famous 0,618 and 1,618 relationship

This fact explains IMHO why there are relationships within Price Action between Tops and Lows
Note that you can have within Price Action various fibo series at work depending on different starting points

This is related to the fact that Tops and Bottoms are not of the same , nature, degree, order. Hence the need to have a methodology and a tool to rationally sort and classify Tops and Bottoms.

d) Gann division by 8 of the Price Range , whatever Price Range, mimics (approximates) relatively closely but very simply the Fibo serie
then Gann division by 8 of the Price Range mimics a parabol, then mimics Price Action behaviour

Hence the division by 8 used by Gann

- Horizontally generating the Support and Resistance Lines (SRL)
- Vertically generating the Vertical Time Line
- Diagonally generating the Speed Lines more known as Gann Angles


Key factor is the starting point or baseline of the Price Range

I will dissert later on the advantages of "after the fact analysis" proned by Duane Archer and Charlie Goodman under the name of "Post Mortem"








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  • #695
  • May 4, 2019 6:29am May 4, 2019 6:29am
Quoting moodybot
Quoting parisboy
{quote} @robots4me I have identified the flaws you and some others on this thread or @george thread are suffering ! Do not worry these are some very usual and common traders diseases a) - the repainting syndrome b) - the after the fact / curve fitting syndrome I will treat the "repainting syndrome" in a later post showing what is really the consequence of alleged "repainting" and the practical approximation mean I have used to fill the "lagging part" of envelopes , moving averages etc to try to dissipate "the fog
...

Moody I would like but right now I am with my old mother . I can be available in around 30 minutes. Thanks for your interest
  • #696
  • May 4, 2019 6:31am May 4, 2019 6:31am
Quoting TopCover
{quote} NiH98 uses the term "The Price Action Dance" - Love it! This is how I see it and the seduction that takes place - through the lens of the Line Chart study that RickM introduced us to... There is an opportunity for us to trade profitably as the Algo wrecks havoc on unsuspecting traders..... EDIT: The line chart shows us the intention while everyone else is looking at candles where the intention is not so clear. {image}
Even though the line chart helps you by off-loading some information the challenge I have is that it uses the closing price. As we know the brokers can widen the spread and I think to me that information is important just as much as the intended direction.
  • #697
  • May 4, 2019 6:54am May 4, 2019 6:54am
Quoting Pip-Miner
{quote} The vibration pattern is the pattern I find most interesting here In accumulation and distribution during spring. This video does a good job in the first half. The pattern is created by the mm Algo to fill orders to suit mm desired price movement, which is against retail traders. https://youtu.be/h1WaZHO7C3k
great video Pip-miner - yes the base formation and Spring are the outworking of the herd mentality etc though George would possibly disagree that this method that he has discovered is Wyckoffian
  • #698
  • May 4, 2019 7:25am May 4, 2019 7:25am
Quoting TopCover
{quote} R4me - and the music playing in the background is “Good Vibrations” by the Beach Boys lol
@TopCover -- careful, you'll give away your age. Plus, I think they were singing about something else -- it wasn't forex...
  • #699
  • May 4, 2019 7:37am May 4, 2019 7:37am
Quoting TopCover
{quote} NiH98 uses the term "The Price Action Dance" - Love it! This is how I see it and the seduction that takes place - through the lens of the Line Chart study that RickM introduced us to... There is an opportunity for us to trade profitably as the Algo wrecks havoc on unsuspecting traders..... EDIT: The line chart shows us the intention while everyone else is looking at candles where the intention is not so clear. {image}
@TopCover -- nice chart and easy to read explanation -- thanks.

So, how would you trade this? Since all this "dancing" occurs in the middle of the TMA then my inclination is to pass and wait for something simpler that doesn't require so much interpretation.

@moodybot has mentioned this a number of times and it's the approach I'm currently using -- I'll wait for the price to re-enter my TMA. @moodybot explains this is where the MM shows his cards.

@RickM explained he uses the Line Chart analysis not as his primary setup but, rather, when he is waiting for better setups and doesn't feel like taking his dog for a walk. My question is -- why not move to another pair and look for the price entering a TMA? I mean, there are "only" 28 pairs -- something must be happening somewhere.
  • #700
  • May 4, 2019 7:47am May 4, 2019 7:47am
Quoting parisboy
{quote} @robots4me I have identified the flaws you and some others on this thread or @george thread are suffering ! Do not worry these are some very usual and common traders diseases a) - the repainting syndrome b) - the after the fact / curve fitting syndrome I will treat the "repainting syndrome" in a later post showing what is really the consequence of alleged "repainting" and the practical approximation mean I have used to fill the "lagging part" of envelopes , moving averages etc to try to dissipate "the fog of trading" (Clausewitz )...
@parisboy -- this is good stuff -- thank you. I've printed a copy of your response and will be studying it in my lavatory -- I mean, laboratory
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