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E-micro: The spot forex killer?

  • #21
  • Apr 25, 2019 6:34am Apr 25, 2019 6:34am
Quoting MarginCalled
{quote} Thanks for pointing to the link Fool. I knew I saw it somewhere. With the minimum wage raising in some states (and soon nationally) on that short window before inflation catches up people will have some extra income. I guess the E-micro is aiming for this market. Meaning small accounts. The new herd of noobs will get their accounts transferred to the MM in no time. 2006/2007 I was among them. Very hopeful, but without knowing it, walking straight to the slaughterhouse. I remember very well Oanda freezing the platform when I was on the wrong...
MM in futures is a different concept than in FX. It means bigger institutional entities which provide liquidity to the market in order to keep it tradeable with small spread. And the MMs are doing it because they are receiving very low commissions and rebates for the liquidity they provide. They do not have a conflict of interest as their positions are hedged (i.e. open a dom of m6a or m6b and at any time you will notice 10 contracts waiting on the dom per side at lower/upper ticks and then they pull off slightly before midnight and the spread widens as much as 3-40 ticks). Actually the new e-micros refer to the e-mini products (es, ym, nq), not forex ones - they exist already. Their price is based on the underlying product and any minor deviations in price will be usually caught by hfts (arbitration).

So in general, you won't be trading against your broker and you will probably be still able to trade them with any platform you can trade regular futures (from mt5 to tt-web).
  • #22
  • Apr 25, 2019 6:56am Apr 25, 2019 6:56am
Quoting shrips
Volatility is at its lowest levels in years for forex, however it has been in these types of cycles before and it does snap out of it. What is needed is a fundamental event to get it going again. Equities to crash maybe? Who knows but when volatility does come back it will be explosive...
No -that is not the same as liquidity !
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #23
  • Apr 25, 2019 12:46pm Apr 25, 2019 12:46pm
Quoting MarginCalled
{quote} Thanks for pointing to the link Fool. I knew I saw it somewhere. With the minimum wage raising in some states (and soon nationally) on that short window before inflation catches up people will have some extra income. I guess the E-micro is aiming for this market. Meaning small accounts. The new herd of noobs will get their accounts transferred to the MM in no time. 2006/2007 I was among them. Very hopeful, but without knowing it, walking straight to the slaughterhouse. I remember very well Oanda freezing the platform when I was on the wrong...
Like a fool, I remained in this slaughterhouse for over 3 yrs blowing account over account and feeling utmost helpless and clueless and miserable and frustrated to nearly understand what I was doing wrong and others were doing "right".... Like a fool, I followed all the assholes on this forum and their lousy and fake strategies touting success. Everyone in the 2006-09 era lost money and no one had to balls to voice their opinion or give sincere warning on the perils of margin trading and the fake and deceitful industry of spot fx they opened up for unsuspecting and desperate retailers trying to make ends meet! Over a decade has past and I am still MAD as hell over my stupidity in the early phase in this journey. Futures or Forex, this is a dog eat dog world where professionals don't feel a thing to take your hard earned money away from your account. e-Micro won't turn a forex loser into a winner imo.
Staying in my lane...
  • #24
  • Apr 26, 2019 2:22am Apr 26, 2019 2:22am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} No -that is not the same as liquidity !
You obviously cant read....the thread is about VOLATILITY and that is what I am referring to.

Liquidity is a totally different issue which will never be an issue in a 5 trillion dollar a day forex market.
  • #25
  • Apr 26, 2019 3:06am Apr 26, 2019 3:06am
Quoting shrips
{quote} You obviously cant read....the thread is about VOLATILITY and that is what I am referring to. Liquidity is a totally different issue which will never be an issue in a 5 trillion dollar a day forex market.
Suggest you wind your neck in and speak to a broker.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #26
  • Apr 26, 2019 3:09am Apr 26, 2019 3:09am
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Like a fool, I remained in this slaughterhouse for over 3 yrs blowing account over account and feeling utmost helpless and clueless and miserable and frustrated to nearly understand what I was doing wrong and others were doing "right".... Like a fool, I followed all the assholes on this forum and their lousy and fake strategies touting success. Everyone in the 2006-09 era lost money and no one had to balls to voice their opinion or give sincere warning on the perils of margin trading and the fake and deceitful industry of spot fx they opened...
Well said V.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #27
  • Apr 26, 2019 6:02am Apr 26, 2019 6:02am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} Suggest you wind your neck in and speak to a broker.

lol Turnip.
yeah sure I will call all the brokers around the globe and ask them to increase the daily ranges on the majors.
  • #28
  • Apr 27, 2019 8:33pm Apr 27, 2019 8:33pm
Quoting shrips
Volatility is at its lowest levels in years for forex, however it has been in these types of cycles before and it does snap out of it. What is needed is a fundamental event to get it going again. Equities to crash maybe? Who knows but when volatility does come back it will be explosive...
Well in my opinion the Forex collapse of volatility refers to capital flux. My guess is because of regulations, crack downs etc on the banks, the capital just migrated from Forex to equities.

Just like when things are bad in the developed world, capital flows to emergent countries. When a market starts to falter money will search for another market with better gain chances.

I agree with the cycle thing and I have no doubt Forex will spring back to volatility. Maybe when the next stock market crash comes it will be the trigger and speculative money will flow back to Forex.

Till that day comes I will stick with the mini nasdaq !!
Don't call me. I call you!
  • #29
  • Apr 27, 2019 8:38pm Apr 27, 2019 8:38pm
Quoting sakisf
{quote} MM in futures is a different concept than in FX. It means bigger institutional entities which provide liquidity to the market in order to keep it tradeable with small spread. And the MMs are doing it because they are receiving very low commissions and rebates for the liquidity they provide. They do not have a conflict of interest as their positions are hedged (i.e. open a dom of m6a or m6b and at any time you will notice 10 contracts waiting on the dom per side at lower/upper ticks and then they pull off slightly before midnight and the...
I really hope you are right. I don't want anybody going through what I and many here had to go through with MM like Oanda and others playing their tricks.

Well, untill the CME releases their price structure and people start to trade the micros and start to share their experiences over the net we can just speculate.
Don't call me. I call you!
  • #30
  • Apr 27, 2019 8:51pm Apr 27, 2019 8:51pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Like a fool, I remained in this slaughterhouse for over 3 yrs blowing account over account and feeling utmost helpless and clueless and miserable and frustrated to nearly understand what I was doing wrong and others were doing "right".... Like a fool, I followed all the assholes on this forum and their lousy and fake strategies touting success. Everyone in the 2006-09 era lost money and no one had to balls to voice their opinion or give sincere warning on the perils of margin trading and the fake and deceitful industry of spot fx they opened...
LOL !!! Man I can feel your pain !!

I lost tens of thousands of dollars ( hard earned money !!) between 2006/2007. But like I said before one has to pay for his education, right?

It is not completely the MM fault because if you trade bigger time frames even with crooks like Oanda etc they can't get you. They can kick you out of their platform ( which happened with me) but they can't get your money.

Now if you are a scalper or day trader forget about MM. You don't have a chance against their tricks.

Now with equities, if you know what you are doing you can definitely day trade for a living.

I was never able to make money scalping or day trading on Forex. Things started to get better when I started trading the 4H and up.

But than as soon as you start to recoup some of your losses the MM comes with their last trick. You get a email that your account is suspended !!!!!
Don't call me. I call you!
  • #31
  • Apr 28, 2019 2:20am Apr 28, 2019 2:20am
There are already mini or micro contract products in CME but their liquidity is thin and commission is usually more expensive.... New additions won't change the game at all. IMHO, at least for currency trading, forex is the best vehicle to trade.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #32
  • Apr 28, 2019 4:47am Apr 28, 2019 4:47am
Quoting heispark
There are already mini or micro contract products in CME but their liquidity is thin and commission is usually more expensive.... New additions won't change the game at all. IMHO, at least for currency trading, forex is the best vehicle to trade.
for short-term trading: YES; for a long-term holding: NO..........negative swap from your friendly forex broker will eat you alive with a long-term position........
  • #33
  • Apr 28, 2019 5:11am Apr 28, 2019 5:11am
Quoting yonnie
{quote} for short-term trading: YES; for a long-term holding: NO..........negative swap from your friendly forex broker will eat you alive with a long-term position........
there is swap free option too,
im using it
  • #34
  • Apr 28, 2019 5:19am Apr 28, 2019 5:19am
Quoting Artawidi
{quote} there is swap free option too, im using it
which is this?
  • #35
  • Apr 28, 2019 5:32am Apr 28, 2019 5:32am
Quoting yonnie
{quote} for short-term trading: YES; for a long-term holding: NO..........negative swap from your friendly forex broker will eat you alive with a long-term position........
You forgot the roll-over cost in futures....
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #36
  • Apr 28, 2019 5:35am Apr 28, 2019 5:35am
Quoting Artawidi
{quote} there is swap free option too, im using it
That's Islamic account. That's even more expensive due to higher spread/commission, regular 'management' cost.... Brokers just charge the cost in different names instead of swap.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #37
  • Apr 28, 2019 6:04am Apr 28, 2019 6:04am
Quoting heispark
{quote} That's Islamic account. That's even more expensive due to higher spread/commission, regular 'management' cost.... Brokers just charge the cost in different names instead of swap.
correct,
i use ICmarket and spread,commision doesnt change, same as before applied to islamic account
  • #38
  • Apr 28, 2019 8:13pm Apr 28, 2019 8:13pm
Quoting heispark
{quote} You forgot the roll-over cost in futures....
no, I did not forget the roll-over cost in futures; I can live with that.........sometimes I will receive an interest portion in futures, while the forex broker would charge me swap..........anyway the point is that I will always be a lot worse off trading with a forex broker if I have a long-term position on imo..........
  • #39
  • Apr 28, 2019 8:37pm Apr 28, 2019 8:37pm
Quoting yonnie
{quote} no, I did not forget the roll-over cost in futures; I can live with that.........sometimes I will receive an interest portion in futures, while the forex broker would charge me swap..........anyway the point is that I will always be a lot worse off trading with a forex broker if I have a long-term position on imo..........
You may want to read this: https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threa.../#post-4775382
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #40
  • Apr 28, 2019 8:53pm Apr 28, 2019 8:53pm
I'm reading what you guys are saying and I still can't quite get how people are still trading Forex, apart from the fact that you can do it with little money.

Well actually, to be perfectly honest, I do swing trade the beast ( actually the pair formerly known as the beast) on the daily chart.

I do it more out of nostalgia and in an account on my wife's name at Oanda.

The mini nasdaq is a pretty easy and volatile market to trade but what I like the most is the fact you don't have to fight you broker.

That makes all the difference to me. Even if Forex become attractive in the future and I decide to trade it again I will NEVER do it via a MM ....NEVER again !
Don't call me. I call you!
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