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The Volume Detective 411 replies

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  • #61
  • Apr 23, 2019 6:59am Apr 23, 2019 6:59am
robots4me, although I have to commend you for your great effort, I'm afraid I have to confirm now what I said in my last post: using 5000 bars (and that's non negotiable unfortunately!) makes the indicator too heavy even on just 2 charts like H1 and M15 on one pair. So unless there is a way to make it lighter for that number of bars, I will have to keep drawing the lines manually.
Thanks anyway for your work, very much appreciated.
  • #65
  • Apr 23, 2019 9:50am Apr 23, 2019 9:50am
Quoting 4fxonly
I'm afraid I have to confirm now what I said in my last post: using 5000 bars (and that's non negotiable unfortunately!) makes the indicator too heavy even on just 2 charts like H1 and M15 on one pair. So unless there is a way to make it lighter for that number of bars, I will have to keep drawing the lines manually.
@4fxonly -- it's sort of interesting how persistent you were about certain lines not being taken out -- but the fear of 5000 bars sends you running to the hills? It's not necessarily the number of bars, but how frequently the calculation is performed -- i.e. how frequently the chart receives ticks. A chart can be "driven" one of three ways -- via ticks, via a timer, via an event (e.g. "Refresh" button click). If it is not necessary to constantly update the calculations with each tick then a button press may be good enough. And for the particular application you are thinking of -- only displaying TOPS and BOTTOMS that have not, yet, been taken out -- then an occasional button press would good enough.

I'm interested in doing a MTF version of the indicator -- as a new, separate indicator -- but I won't rely on help with validating it. It will work fine with 5000 bars -- though I will probably limit it to 4999.
  • #66
  • Edited 10:27am Apr 23, 2019 10:14am | Edited 10:27am
Quoting SwingMan
One can analyze and find that in many cases it is better to consider these fractal Levels(2/3) than fractals in upper time frames.
@SwingMan -- this is very interesting -- thanks for pointing it out. In other words -- fractals within fractals. Often times simplifying assumptions come to the rescue to solve (otherwise) intractable problems.

By the way, I just now found your smTridentLevels_v3 indicator (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=11906750#post11906750) -- this is way too cool. I've never seen that before. I think this idea of using fractals within fractals is quite powerful.
  • #67
  • Apr 23, 2019 10:53am Apr 23, 2019 10:53am
Quoting dicojoxaftr
{quote} i get it now why ppl write on day after day, why there's communities for free and for giving just bullshit you should build a herd farm then take the opposite now you know how it works, what you gonna do ????? next just be smart, and quit the game cheers
What is wrong with you man?! Go and get help.
  • #68
  • Apr 23, 2019 11:02am Apr 23, 2019 11:02am
Quoting majamivice
What is wrong with you man?! Go and get help.
@majamivice -- it's okay. I've now blocked him on this thread and have requested his posts be removed. He does the the same thing on every thread. It's best not to respond or quote his inane posts -- that's the attention and gratification he is looking for.
  • #69
  • Apr 23, 2019 11:42am Apr 23, 2019 11:42am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @4fxonly -- it's sort of interesting how persistent you were about certain lines not being taken out -- but the fear of 5000 bars sends you running to the hills? It's not necessarily the number of bars, but how frequently the calculation is performed -- i.e. how frequently the chart receives ticks. A chart can be "driven" one of three ways -- via ticks, via a timer, via an event (e.g. "Refresh" button click). If it is not necessary to constantly update the calculations with each tick then a button press may be good enough. And for the particular...
Hi @robotsforme,

Perhaps use the timer and fire it every 10 to 15 seconds, I'm sure he wouldn't mind line redraw updates after a few seconds. Are you using arrays to keep tabs on the line levels with ArraySort to compare against current price? This would be the fastest way I think, if looping through objects directly this will be the cause of the slowness. Anyway, hope it helps a little maybe.

Kind Regards,
Paul
  • #70
  • Apr 23, 2019 11:47am Apr 23, 2019 11:47am
Quoting robots4me
I think this idea of using fractals within fractals is quite powerful.
Sure!

And if you analyse the breakouts of the last Level-2 lines, maybe you have an additional tool for the evaluation of your lines.
The same for pendings between the lines.
  • #71
  • Apr 23, 2019 12:29pm Apr 23, 2019 12:29pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @4fxonly -- it's sort of interesting how persistent you were about certain lines not being taken out -- but the fear of 5000 bars sends you running to the hills? It's not necessarily the number of bars, but how frequently the calculation is performed -- i.e. how frequently the chart receives ticks. A chart can be "driven" one of three ways -- via ticks, via a timer, via an event (e.g. "Refresh" button click). If it is not necessary to constantly update the calculations with each tick then a button press may be good enough. And for the particular...
Not fear, my friend, but experience... If I right or center click on a chart and the menu or the cross-hair doesn't appear immediately but takes a few seconds, sorry but that's not good enough for me. The minute that the indicator is taken off or set to a small number of bars, things go back to normal. Hence for me, poor mortal, who knows nothing about ticks, timer or event, still used to "if this thing happens then this other must be true", the only conclusion is that the number of bars is affecting the speed...
Looking forward to your MTF baby...
  • #72
  • Apr 23, 2019 12:38pm Apr 23, 2019 12:38pm
Quoting swd
{quote} Hi @robotsforme, Perhaps use the timer and fire it every 10 to 15 seconds, I'm sure he wouldn't mind line redraw updates after a few seconds. Are you using arrays to keep tabs on the line levels with ArraySort to compare against current price? This would be the fastest way I think, if looping through objects directly this will be the cause of the slowness. Anyway, hope it helps a little maybe. Kind Regards, Paul
There is not even need to refresh at that frequency. We are speaking m15 as the smallest TF to generate lines, so once every 15 min is enough. Even if a new fractal arrow appears the moment that a new higher high is formed after 2 lower highs there is no need to draw a new line yet, as the ultimate one will only be certain when 2 lower highs have formed after that higher high. So maybe even 30 minutes refresh would be enough. Not sure if I'm speaking BS here but this is really uncharted territory for me LOL
  • #73
  • Apr 23, 2019 2:47pm Apr 23, 2019 2:47pm
Quoting 4fxonly
{quote} There is not even need to refresh at that frequency. We are speaking m15 as the smallest TF to generate lines, so once every 15 min is enough. Even if a new fractal arrow appears the moment that a new higher high is formed after 2 lower highs there is no need to draw a new line yet, as the ultimate one will only be certain when 2 lower highs have formed after that higher high. So maybe even 30 minutes refresh would be enough. Not sure if I'm speaking BS here but this is really uncharted territory for me LOL
Hi,

I understand, that's fine. If it teases out some requirements for @robot4me and make it easier to deliver what you want then it has been a worthwhile conversation.

Thanks,
Paul
  • #74
  • Apr 23, 2019 3:30pm Apr 23, 2019 3:30pm
Quoting 4fxonly
"if this thing happens then this other must be true"
Sort of a long post -- sorry. One of my buttons got pushed...

@4fxonly -- of course -- it is good to take note of observations and deduce consequences. When dealing with Black Boxes this is what helps set us humans apart from other species. Some humans are better at it than others. Some humans are too lazy to even try. You are definitely one of the smart ones.

Indicators are just like any other program -- they are a chunk of code that get executed. That code may be complex or simple -- whatever. If the code never or rarely gets executed, then its complexity doesn't matter when it comes to CPU usage. Only when the code executes will it take up CPU cycles. For most indicators, for better or worse, their code gets executed every tick. For a particular symbol -- all time frames receive the same number of ticks (with one minor exception). However, different symbols receive different number of ticks depending on your broker's data feed. If you attach a chart to EURUSD you may receive several ticks per second. If you attach an indicator to an exotic symbol, perhaps once an hour -- I don't know.

My point was this -- you don't need to understand the inner workings of MT4 or even how to program. After advocating that I take this indicator down a particular path, you suddenly decide its not possible and indicate you are no longer interested -- all within a few minutes. I don't need help programming, but as I've mentioned a few times previously, I never fully understood @George's methodology and never took the time to mark-up charts -- I just didn't have the patience. So, I would have expected some help in validating the new indicator did the right thing.

It seems to me that when given guidelines people fall into one of two categories -- those who take things seriously and those who take things literally. I fall into the former. If @George suggests using 5000 bars I take that to mean "a lot" of bars -- i.e. somewhere between 500 and 5000. Someone who takes things literally thinks it must be exactly 5000 bars or the methodology won't work. I doubt that @George tried 1000's of combination and after 20 years discovered 5000 bars works and any other number doesn't -- perhaps that is the case, I don't know. Furthermore, if you were to take 100 people and ask them to mark-up M15, H1 and H4 charts (with 5000 bars) by drawing lines along TOPS and BOTTOMS and then subsequently removing them, how many of the resulting charts do you think would look exactly like George's? I'm guessing not many. But they would probably be good enough to be used with @George's methodology.

Whenever I encounter a problem that on the surface seems intractable -- e.g. 5000 bars is too slow -- rather than throw up my hands in despair I'll look for a simplifying assumption that allows me to move forward. That is, I'll take the guidance seriously and understand I need quite a few bars, though not necessarily exactly 5000. Others take the guidance literally, and if it can't have exactly 5000 bars then they figure its hopeless.

As a side note -- some applications lend themselves to be taken seriously, others to be taken literally. For example, in the theoretical world, such as physics, it's probably a good idea to take things literally. The laws of physics tend to fail if you take short cuts. On the other hand, in the empirical world it often is okay to figure things out by trial-and-error since you might find a solution that is "good enough" to get you to the next level.

It's also interesting to me that as one door closes another opens. At the same moment the door closes on 5000 bars, then @SwingMan comes along and offers some insight into how using higher level fractals to pick out TOPS and BOTTOMS might actually yield better results (than combining multiple time frames). A coincidence, perhaps. An opportunity -- definitely. If I get nothing else out of this thread -- learning about higher-level fractals from @SwingMan's posts made it more than worthwhile.
  • #75
  • Apr 23, 2019 3:38pm Apr 23, 2019 3:38pm
Quoting SwingMan
And if you analyse the breakouts of the last Level-2 lines, maybe you have an additional tool for the evaluation of your lines.
@SwingMan -- yes, thank you for pointing this out. I prefer the idea of using higher-level fractals to pick out TOPS and BOTTOMS (as opposed to combining multiple time frames) -- and not just because it might be less CPU intensive. From experimenting with your smTridentLevels_v3 indicator I can tell it yields better TOPS and BOTTOMS.
  • #76
  • Apr 23, 2019 5:52pm Apr 23, 2019 5:52pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} Sort of a long post -- .
From that '5000' lines , actually we only need the last 'two' lines to make money..lol.

Fractal point that show in more TFs (your term fractal inside fractal, and the bigger picture fractal 'the head and shoulder' chart pattern that actually similar to Neptune Trident..lol) will give stronger 'magnet' and depend on current bias conditions, you could trade 'into' or 'away' from that 'MTF' Fractal points.

NIH.
Dog + Smile = Beautiful Day
  • #77
  • Apr 23, 2019 6:05pm Apr 23, 2019 6:05pm
Quoting Nih98
Fractal point that show in more TFs (your term fractal inside fractal, and the bigger picture fractal 'the head and shoulder' chart pattern that actually similar to Neptune Trident..lol) will give stronger 'magnet' and depend on current bias conditions, you could trade 'into' or 'away' from that 'MTF' Fractal points.
@Nih98 -- most interesting -- thank you. For identifying TOPS and BOTTOMS, the fractal-inside-fractal strategy seems a more compelling one than simply using more LeftBars and RightBars or MTF fractals. Not only is it consistent with the concept of what a fractal is, it is also consistent with @George's insistence that the market has a fractal type nature.

I'm looking forward to creating a new indicator based on Level-2 and Level-3 fractals to pick out TOPS and BOTTOMS. Hopefully you'll have some comments and suggestions along the way.
  • #78
  • Apr 23, 2019 6:10pm Apr 23, 2019 6:10pm
Quoting Nih98
{quote} From that '5000' lines , actually we only need the last 'two' lines to make money..
With all due respect to you, as I remember your valuable posts in George's thread, we don't have or need 5000 lines. It's bars we're speaking about here; lines are much less, as I explain in my next post in reply to our host. Also I would disagree about the last two lines. It sounds to me like you're speaking S/R (I could be wrong though) but we all know that's not just two lines that George's theory is based on.
  • #79
  • Apr 23, 2019 6:12pm Apr 23, 2019 6:12pm
Quoting robots4me
MM (Money-Maker) Detective Indicator MM Detective is a new indicator I recently created -- it shows the "lifetimes" of TOPS and BOTTOMS on a price chart. I've decided to share it with ForexFactory members as a sign of gratitude to FF. I enjoy reading FF and have learned a lot from other members and authors. The idea behind the MM Detective Indicator was hatched from following @George AUS's thread entitled "Price action at the core / tma intra day" (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=874421). For those of you who followed @George's...
Robots4me,

Thanks for sharing your work...
  • #80
  • Apr 23, 2019 6:14pm Apr 23, 2019 6:14pm
Quoting Nih98
{quote} From that '5000' lines , actually we only need the last 'two' lines to make money..lol. Fractal point that show in more TFs (your term fractal inside fractal, and the bigger picture fractal 'the head and shoulder' chart pattern that actually similar to Neptune Trident..lol) will give stronger 'magnet' and depend on current bias conditions, you could trade 'into' or 'away' from that 'MTF' Fractal points. NIH.
Nih98,

If it's not too much trouble, could you please illustrate a trade using a chart. Will be much obliged...

Thanks
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