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  • #121
  • Apr 23, 2019 1:42pm Apr 23, 2019 1:42pm
Quoting IceRice
{quote} I'm just developing v 04 of indicator with "Vortex" filter and we will see results. I think that it will reduce a lot of false signals from trending phase but real problem with false signals is here: {image}
Oh, btw, I don`t know if I was to early with bringing in vortex....

Maybe we should first stick to one MA in the EA and/or "falling" or "rising" dots and arrows....

What do you think ?
  • #122
  • Apr 23, 2019 1:43pm Apr 23, 2019 1:43pm
Quoting IceRice
{quote} I'm just developing v 04 of indicator with "Vortex" filter and we will see results. I think that it will reduce a lot of false signals from trending phase but real problem with false signals is here: {image}
At this particular picture the problem occurs because the chart is too close. If you look the same M15 picture from far far away ( max zoom out ), you can see a clear trend. Then you can zoom in and go only in the direction of a trend. You can clearly see in which direction is heading the price. But this is only the basic of the direction!
Wolf's idea of adding a simple moving average is useful, but it should be longer moving average - 100+.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Brez naslova1.png Size: 39 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: Brez naslova2.png Size: 61 KB
  • #123
  • Apr 23, 2019 2:15pm Apr 23, 2019 2:15pm
I've just developed v 04 of indicator with vortex filter. In indicator param. is possible to turn on/off vortex filter and set vortext length.
Let's check different configurations of indi. with different symbols and timeframes and let me know if it gives better results.

It seems to me that vortex filter gives very similar effect to ma filter. If you see that MA could give better efect, I will add MA filter to our indicator.
Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 consecutive candles 1_04.ex4   20 KB | 410 downloads
File Type: mq4 consecutive candles 1_04.mq4   10 KB | 489 downloads
  • #124
  • Apr 23, 2019 2:16pm Apr 23, 2019 2:16pm
Quoting TheDuke
{quote} At this particular picture the problem occurs because the chart is too close. If you look the same M15 picture from far far away ( max zoom out ), you can see a clear trend. Then you can zoom in and go only in the direction of a trend. You can clearly see in which direction is heading the price. But this is only the basic of the direction! Wolf's idea of adding a simple moving average is useful, but it should be longer moving average - 100+. {image} {image}
Thank you Duke,

to bring in your thoughts !! You are absolutely right. (I think IceRice just wanted to point to the "no momentum" areas.)

Situation "F" realy sucks, but we have to deal with it. The earlier we find a solution, the earlier we lose our fear to get in.

Concerning MA: I know what you mean and I am with you. But to not miss a lot of very good trades, I would prefer sma 50 more

(not to start a story about which MA is better) just because it is faster "around the corner" to tell EA faster that it can take the trades.

The faster the MA, the more legs will be catched. 21 (fib number) is always a good choise for getting nice moves, like in the pic.

That`s why a MA in the EA should be free to choose, to fit every style of trading.
  • #125
  • Apr 23, 2019 2:21pm Apr 23, 2019 2:21pm
Quoting TheDuke
{quote} At this particular picture the problem occurs because the chart is too close. If you look the same M15 picture from far far away ( max zoom out ), you can see a clear trend. Then you can zoom in and go only in the direction of a trend. You can clearly see in which direction is heading the price. But this is only the basic of the direction! Wolf's idea of adding a simple moving average is useful, but it should be longer moving average - 100+. {image} {image}
Yes, longer MA solve our "F" situation (wolf300, nice symbol ) but could worse other trades, means later entry or missing some entries. We must find golden mean.
  • #126
  • Apr 23, 2019 2:22pm Apr 23, 2019 2:22pm
Found vortex mtf with different ways to show what is going on.

Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 vortex _mtf+alerts+arrows.mq4   11 KB | 665 downloads


...like in the pictures, or as a histo.

Just switch "Show difference" to true or false.
  • #127
  • Apr 23, 2019 2:28pm Apr 23, 2019 2:28pm
Quoting IceRice
{quote} There is no problem to make MT5 version. Who need MT5 version of indicator, tell me by clicking at this post.
Thank you very much!
I prefer the mt4 platform by far but on mt4 there is no option to have 2h,3h,6h and 8h charts and sometimes these charts will give valuable information
prior to the 4h or daily

Jack
Those who don't believe in magic will never find it
  • #128
  • Edited Apr 24, 2019 2:32pm Apr 23, 2019 2:37pm | Edited Apr 24, 2019 2:32pm
Here are pictures showing our situation "F" and "A"

with possible usage of vortex (PA based trend indi)

You don`t need the subwindows later. Only to illustrate what indis on chart are doing.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: con Vortex.png Size: 82 KB


Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: con Vortex 2 diff situations.png Size: 87 KB
  • #129
  • Apr 23, 2019 2:43pm Apr 23, 2019 2:43pm
Quoting IceRice
I've just developed v 04 of indicator with vortex filter. In indicator param. is possible to turn on/off vortex filter and set vortext length. Let's check different configurations of indi. with different symbols and timeframes and let me know if it gives better results. It seems to me that vortex filter gives very similar effect to ma filter. If you see that MA could give better efect, I will add MA filter to our indicator. {file} {file}
What the ....?

You are waayyy to fast....

Did you see the mtf version of vortex ?
  • #130
  • Edited Apr 24, 2019 2:35pm Apr 23, 2019 2:58pm | Edited Apr 24, 2019 2:35pm
Here is the pic with v 04 using vortex (9) as the filter. Deleted v 01 and v 02 to see the pure vortex filter.

Look how profitable "no signal" can be.... as situation "A", a nice and strong trend doesn`t trigger counter trend signals for a long time.

That way the original idea realy pans out. Adding up trades until your S/R level, or your fib level, or your stomach says, enough. Not to bad.

Situation A solved. (No need for subwindows, that way slope of sma is way better to see.)

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: con v 04 with vortex.png Size: 83 KB
  • #131
  • Apr 23, 2019 6:46pm Apr 23, 2019 6:46pm
I wonder if the solution to "F" is a good volume/volatility indicator. If you are familiar with VP of NoNonsenseForex then you will know the importance of volume, once you have a trade confirmation.

Chris
  • #132
  • Edited 2:27pm Apr 24, 2019 6:24am | Edited 2:27pm
Hi everybody,

just in case some readers wondering what is going on here....


It is still a tech developing thread about PA indicators consecutive candles v 01 and v 02 (please check post 73)

V 03 and v 04 do have the same rules like v 02 (the original idea) and are further developments with optical features and a PA filter. (v 04)

All pictures I posted are for illustration only. The subwindows are NOT necessary, just to show you what is going on "inside" the indi on the chart.



So later the chart will look pretty clean without subwindows and by arrows everybody knows, what the arrows stand for and why.


Vortex is a pure PA indicator based on the formula I posted in post 116 (take a look for better understanding)


We could stop now with further developments, as we won`t kill every kind of situations in the market, but sticked to PA with no other indicators than that.

With what we have now, a more successful trading as before, is safe to say.


What we are doing now, is going ahead and maybe find a solution for some difficult situations other than a dream trend.

IceRice, the high speed coder, is willing to make the EA work with vortex or MA and will maybe, in the future, code a dashboard indi with our filters and free to choose pairs and timeframes. So don`t be stingy with your likes please, to show him, you love his work when you download his stuff.
  • #133
  • Apr 25, 2019 11:03am Apr 25, 2019 11:03am
Hi PA traders,

hope you all have nice success with the PA indis and your chart looks clean enough to not get confused.

Please remember, that you don`t need the subwindows for the vortex indi, it is included in v 04 as a filter.

So it is easy to go along with your strategy (and subwindows, if you use some)

Ok, here is a little tip, if you use v 02, the original idea (please see post 73) and not the filtered v 04.

We talked about the bears and the bulls and who is winning the battle in a certain amount of time (just one candle or a few, depends on tf)

TIP: You simply count the changes of direction shown by a dot with an arrow at the same time.

In a healthy trend, like situation "A" you get one down and the next up is back into trend direction which shows the bulls have the power.
Take a look at post 128 please.

But in situation "F" (and I don`t mean the american grades )

You count many changes right one after the other...(including flat MA)

Means the bulls and bears are sleeping or nobody is able to win.

Try this "change counting" in different situations and timeframes and maybe use a trendline (to break), to find an end of counting and a bigger move.

M15 can be very noisy, but very profitable, when it comes to an early entry and exit. Hope it helps a bit making good decisions.

Fact is, we see pure PA caused by the marketmakers as it happens. Should be possible to make some profit...
  • #134
  • Apr 25, 2019 12:33pm Apr 25, 2019 12:33pm
Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
That is why, why the PA is king. Good, I mean, great work both Wolf And IceRice. I experiment with some settings at the moment.
  • #135
  • Apr 25, 2019 1:26pm Apr 25, 2019 1:26pm
Quoting TheDuke
Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci That is why, why the PA is king. Good, I mean, great work both Wolf And IceRice. I experiment with some settings at the moment.
Thank you Duke,

Leo was the best, anyway.

But, as my old buddy, Albert Einstein used to say: "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."

He went on and said :"If something is to complicated for you, go and simplify it, as much as you can, until you understand it"

Unfortunately FF "produces" more confused und hesitated traders, than everybody would assume. And that makes 95% losing money or missing trades.

Why? Because 10,000 threads are waayyy to complicated and stuffed with lagging and repainting indicators, leading people into the wrong direction
NOT to see what the bears and the bulls are doing, and they are the marketmakers, not 5 mio retail traders.

Every time I`m logging in to FF, I think, hopefully people see, that this is not the 10,000 +1 useless thread and recognise the facts of simplicity
of following PA and what IceRice coded within 6 or seven days.

To be clear, this is not the non existing holy grail or a fool proof, always winning stuff, everybody on FF is looking for. (for free, of course)

You have to combine it with S/R levels, trendlines, session times, etc. to profit, but I say, everybody who understands the whole thread, is
not one, he/she is two steps closer to profit.


So why fight the bulls and bears ? Follow them when you see by PA indi, where they are going...
  • #136
  • Apr 26, 2019 4:07am Apr 26, 2019 4:07am
Hello,

I think it would be a good idea to have a version of the indicator (v02 or v04) opening on a separate window.

It would be something like an histogram with up arrows and dots above a zero line, and down arrows and dots below that line. And, of course, arrows and dots having different colour bars, so they can be distinguished.

This way the chart could be cleaner - I like to see candles/PA and as uncluttered as possible, and I am sure there are many that feel the same way.

Having this on v02 or v04 would be the same since we can set v04 without the vortex filter.

If one of the coders here is willing to do this, it would be much appreciated (I believe that with the indicator already developed, creating this version is not very complicated).

2 side comments:
- Wouldn't it be nice to have some sort of button, on the upper right hand corner of the chart for example, that we could click and that would make the indicator signs (being arrows, dots or whatever) toggle between appearing and then disapperaing?
If we wanted to see the indi, we just would click on that button, if we wanted it to be there but not showing the signs (so as to have the chart uncluttered) we would click the button also.
I have never seen this on MT4, and I don't even know if it is possible, but it would be great, because as it is now, if we want to do this we have to go to the indi parameters and change on by one.
I am not asking this to be done for the indi here - this is just a general thought.

- About filtering the indi signals...I believe it's the same old stuff: one filtering indicator will be good in some situations and another in other situations (and often very similar in most of the situations).
I don't think I see vortex being a much better filter than the alligator (with special settings) that someone mentioned earlier. And if we do the same using other indicators it will be more or less the same.
It all depends how a trader feels/adapts to an indicator and knowing and accepting its limitations. None will do the trick.
One trader may filter better using one indicator and another trader may filter better with another indicator.
  • #137
  • Apr 26, 2019 9:00am Apr 26, 2019 9:00am
Hello,

wolf300, thanks for your next tip:

Quote
TIP: You simply count the changes of direction shown by a dot with an arrow at the same time.


I see that you have a lot of ideas. I like your method of chart analysis.

FXMachina, I agree with you:

Quote
I don't think I see vortex being a much better filter than the alligator (with special settings) that someone mentioned earlier. And if we do the same using other indicators it will be more or less the same.
It all depends how a trader feels/adapts to an indicator and knowing and accepting its limitations. None will do the trick.
One trader may filter better using one indicator and another trader may filter better with another indicator.

and I think that proper identification of market phase (trend or flat) is the key to effective trading with any indicator.
The missing element in the entire puzzle is volume.
  • #138
  • Apr 26, 2019 10:56am Apr 26, 2019 10:56am
Quoting IceRice
Hello, wolf300, thanks for your next tip: {quote} I see that you have a lot of ideas. I like your method of chart analysis. FXMachina, I agree with you: {quote} and I think that proper identification of market phase (trend or flat) is the key to effective trading with any indicator. The missing element in the entire puzzle is volume.
IceRice,

Please check this thread, BambooPips discusses a concept on Volume Divergence:

https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=909822

Wolf and You are like two peas in a pod (Enthusiasm, Talent etc...), with your two heads together you guys might find a way to incorporate the concept...

Thanks
  • #139
  • Apr 26, 2019 11:14am Apr 26, 2019 11:14am
Quoting IceRice
Hello, wolf300, thanks for your next tip: {quote} I see that you have a lot of ideas. I like your method of chart analysis. FXMachina, I agree with you: {quote} and I think that proper identification of market phase (trend or flat) is the key to effective trading with any indicator. The missing element in the entire puzzle is volume.
Hi IceRice,

good to see you back. I hope you are ok and not overwhelmed about many readers hoping for a dash indictor with our rules, a mtf version of the indis,

a "click on - click of arrows and dots" on the chart and most of all the ultimate solution....our indi combined somehow with volume to a never fail indi..

Did I forget something ??

I am afraid to disappoint everybody, but the volume thing will not work, as volume in forex is never correct, you only get what your broker is throwing in front of your feet.

What you "could" eventually try is: Integrate the MFI indicator into the indis, because MFI is the only "real" momentum indicator out there.

Why? It is the only one including volume (be careful) in it`s function. Not even the momentum indicator is a real momentum indicator.

I tried so hard to trade with MFI, but it did not work for me. It is the same as always: What settings for what TF, for what Pair? What if obos Zones are only a proof there is more price movement to come and no clean "leaving" obos zones and make safe money.... nope, will not work for me.

What I try to say is, we don`t have to reinvent the wheel.... If market is flat, we see it by horizontal moves and best with a MA.

We should focus on what we have. PA combined with everybodys trading system anyway...

We got excellent entries now and with v 01 excellent exits, if it is to hot to wait for exit via v02.

Filtering is good, but be honest, it will not be the holy grail either, right...?

If anybody has time and realy wants to...please start a thread about our stuff in the "trading system" corner.

I am sure, we will see many ideas and many trades and everybody can learn a bit.

May it that FF produces more anxiety and hopenessless, than confident and profitable traders.

At least we will see live trades, do `s and don`ts and many tips.
  • #140
  • Edited 11:41am Apr 26, 2019 11:30am | Edited 11:41am
Quoting aaven
{quote} IceRice, Please check this thread, BambooPips discusses a concept on Volume Divergence: https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=909822 Wolf and You are like two peas in a pod (Enthusiasm, Talent etc...), with your two heads together you guys might find a way to incorporate the concept... Thanks


Thank you aaven,

you are absolutely correct my talent seeing things as they are and the realy good and fast coder IceRice with knowledge about trading,

will rock this thing...

and traders, or members of FF for 10 years and more will go like....why the hell didn`t I see what is so obvious ?!?!?

Many smashing sounds of smacked foreheads will be going around the world....LOL.


Now serious, if IceRice is still on board, I will go on and find solutions for as many problems as I can, it is good fun by the way...
Glad I am not alone and we got many minds to put together.
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