No skill in trading! | Forex Factory

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No skill in trading!

  • #1
  • First Post: Feb 9, 2019 4:02am Feb 9, 2019 4:02am
I wish someone had told me years ago, it would have saved me a lot of time, effort and money! This "It takes 10,000 hours to master a skill" might well be true, but in my opinion trading isn't one of them!
The sooner the frustrated trader realises that trading is just following some trading rules, carrying them out to the letter, the sooner they can sit back and just trade without the stress of searching for something that isn't there! Just my opinion.
  • #2
  • Feb 9, 2019 4:58am Feb 9, 2019 4:58am
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  • #3
  • Feb 9, 2019 5:04am Feb 9, 2019 5:04am
Yes... I agree...
  • #4
  • Feb 9, 2019 5:05am Feb 9, 2019 5:05am
Yes. ..I agree. .
  • #5
  • Feb 9, 2019 5:13am Feb 9, 2019 5:13am
Quoting DemoForever
I wish someone had told me years ago, it would have saved me a lot of time, effort and money! This "It takes 10,000 hours to master a skill" might well be true, but in my opinion trading isn't one of them! The sooner the frustrated trader realises that trading is just following some trading rules, carrying them out to the letter, the sooner they can sit back and just trade without the stress of searching for something that isn't there! Just my opinion.
You just contradicted yourself. You have admitted that you spent a lot of time, effort and money learning how to do something which requires absolutely no skill whatsoever, and as you have been a member for more than ten years, it certainly has taken you a great deal of time to arrive at this conclusion. If you are right, and consistently successful trading requires nothing more than simple rule following, anyone of us should be able to become profitable within a matter of weeks, even days, yet it has taken you ten years. This means that you are either rather obtuse, or a dreadful rule follower.
  • #6
  • Feb 9, 2019 5:37am Feb 9, 2019 5:37am
Quoting cat
{quote} You just contradicted yourself. You have admitted that you spent a lot of time, effort and money learning how to do something which requires absolutely no skill whatsoever, and as you have been a member for more than ten years, it certainly has taken you a great deal of time to arrive at this conclusion. If you are right, and consistently successful trading requires nothing more than simple rule following, anyone of us should be able to become profitable within a matter of weeks, even days, yet it has taken you ten years. This means that...
Yep your right, I am a bit thick, no point me carrying on eh. And your right again about the rule following. Would you say following some simple entry, exit, money management trading system that makes 20% per year would be worth your time?
  • #7
  • Feb 9, 2019 5:46am Feb 9, 2019 5:46am
Quoting DemoForever
{quote} Yep your right, I am a bit thick, no point me carrying on eh. And your right again about the rule following. Would you say following some simple entry, exit, money management trading system that makes 20% per year would be worth your time?
I never said you were thick directly, as that would be a very foolish assumption to make about anyone, I was just making the point that, were there actually no skill in trading besides setting certain rules and being able to follow them, then we are all incredibly thick, for even monkeys can be taught to follow rules.

As for your 20% per annum profit, there would be thousands of investors out there who would bite your hand off if you were able to guarantee them 20% profit, so yes, such a trading system, though I don't like to think of trading systems, only the knowledge a trader brings into the market, would be worth your time, my time, or anyone's time.
  • #8
  • Feb 9, 2019 6:39am Feb 9, 2019 6:39am
Quoting cat
{quote} I never said you were thick directly, as that would be a very foolish assumption to make about anyone, I was just making the point that, were there actually no skill in trading besides setting certain rules and being able to follow them, then we are all incredibly thick, for even monkeys can be taught to follow rules. As for your 20% per annum profit, there would be thousands of investors out there who would bite your hand off if you were able to guarantee them 20% profit, so yes, such a trading system, though I don't like to think of trading...
That is exactly my point. " Monkey see monkey do" is what should happen, but in trading it's " Trader see trader don't do" and then goes on a quest to learn the " Skills" needed to know everything there's to know about the markets!
  • #9
  • Feb 9, 2019 7:38am Feb 9, 2019 7:38am
Quoting DemoForever
{quote} That is exactly my point. " Monkey see monkey do" is what should happen, but in trading it's " Trader see trader don't do" and then goes on a quest to learn the " Skills" needed to know everything there's to know about the markets!
But the skill is not just to see, it is to see and understand what you are seeing, which is in fact, the main difference between those who win, and those who do not. Acquire the skill, and the psychology required to profit from it will come. Acquiring the right mindset is not a skill, because we all have it within us in the first place, it is just a question of finding it and applying it.
  • #10
  • Feb 9, 2019 9:03am Feb 9, 2019 9:03am
Quoting cat
{quote} But the skill is not just to see, it is to see and understand what you are seeing, which is in fact, the main difference between those who win, and those who do not. Acquire the skill, and the psychology required to profit from it will come. Acquiring the right mindset is not a skill, because we all have it within us in the first place, it is just a question of finding it and applying it.
I disagree with your first two points, but the "Acquiring the right mindset is not a skill" part I agree with 100%. The reason most traders are struggling is nothing to do with their level of skill imho, it's because of their brain thinking trading is more complicated than it is.
  • #11
  • Feb 9, 2019 9:16am Feb 9, 2019 9:16am
move to bigger time frame, check my thread weekly charts only...
NEVER BREAK RULES
  • #12
  • Feb 9, 2019 11:40am Feb 9, 2019 11:40am
Banished to the Rookie forum. Happy days
  • #13
  • Feb 9, 2019 12:46pm Feb 9, 2019 12:46pm
The 10,000 hour rule doesn't mean that after that many hours you become king of the jungle and master of your domain. It means that after spending that long trading, if you lose badly or get a margin call, you are not going to run around like a chicken without a head and scream the sky has fallen. It means, you calmly accept what has happened, asses why it happened and file the incident in your memory as a reference so in the future maybe you can avoid a similar situation or plan around it. That's all.

If your profession is to hang around volcano tops and find fresh diamonds spewed out of the Earth's mantle, yes, you are going to get charred crisp once in a while no matter how many 10,000 hour belts you are wearing. So suck it up and de-crip yourself after a deep singe or leave the volcanoes for the new tourists with the big smiles on their faces.
  • #14
  • Feb 9, 2019 1:06pm Feb 9, 2019 1:06pm
Quoting DemoForever
{quote} I disagree with your first two points, but the "Acquiring the right mindset is not a skill" part I agree with 100%. The reason most traders are struggling is nothing to do with their level of skill imho, it's because of their brain thinking trading is more complicated than it is.
And I disagree wholeheartedly with that. Most traders here on ff, or would be traders, are trading live accounts despite the fact that they do not have the knowledge of the markets to profit from them consistently. Nothing to do with the ' right mindset ', and everything to do with lack of knowledge.Once a trader fully understands what they are doing, confidence grows and the psychology takes care of itself, although there will always be traders who self-destruct no matter how well they know the markets.

But let's agree to disagree, as any point of view is as valid as the next.
  • #15
  • Feb 9, 2019 1:53pm Feb 9, 2019 1:53pm
Quoting DemoForever
I wish someone had told me years ago, it would have saved me a lot of time, effort and money! This "It takes 10,000 hours to master a skill" might well be true.... trading is just following some trading rules, carrying them out to the letter, the sooner they can sit back and just trade without the stress of searching for something that isn't there! Just my ....
There is an element of art in trading. Accordingly, to the extent there is art, there is also skill.

Most people need to follow a set of rules because they lack the skill necessary not to do so. There certainly are some skillful traders who do not robotically follow a set of rules. In some circles, they're called discretionary traders. Most traders on FF, especially new ones, do not like discretionary traders because they're results are hard (technically impossible) to emulate. But that's the rub: a trader's skill in trading is unique and individualistic. No two traders can trade exactly the same by the simple fact that they are not the same person. Each has his own beliefs, risk tolerances, and desires. Consequently, there is something that is "there", you just don't first look at a chart or a P&L statement to find it. You must first look inward.

It should also be noted that one's ability to follow some trading rules to the letter is a skill. In some circles, it's called discipline.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #16
  • Feb 10, 2019 12:37am Feb 10, 2019 12:37am
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  • #17
  • Feb 10, 2019 12:44am Feb 10, 2019 12:44am
Quoting HiddenGap
{quote} There is an element of art in trading. Accordingly, to the extent there is art, there is also skill. Most people need to follow a set of rules because they lack the skill necessary not to do so. There certainly are some skillful traders who do not robotically follow a set of rules. In some circles, they're called discretionary traders. Most traders on FF, especially new ones, do not like discretionary traders because they're results are hard (technically impossible) to emulate. But that's the rub: a trader's skill in trading is unique and...
Trading has nothing to do with art, trading is just buying something at point A, selling at point B and risking C% of your capital on each trade. How a trader gets to their ABC combination is up to them.

As for discretionary traders, are you saying they don't abide by any rules when they trade? Or are you just saying rules get in the way of the trader making more money than the rules based trader?
  • #18
  • Feb 10, 2019 6:06am Feb 10, 2019 6:06am
i dont know what actually skill in Forex trading , because there is no skill i have seen which works consistently , its all about temporary , for that reason we the traders who are particularly newcomers always have to develop our trading system by means of regular practice , otherwise no way to survive.
  • #19
  • Feb 10, 2019 7:20am Feb 10, 2019 7:20am
developing trading strategies only the way to keep survive in here , thanks for nice message , but the main problem we are willing to practice demo account after kicking off a live trading. demo not only for beginners but almost all kinds of traders.
  • #20
  • Feb 10, 2019 10:16am Feb 10, 2019 10:16am
In my opinion, the sheer amount of rules one has to learn to trade well in the many different situations that occur on the market amount to having trading skills.
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