Are We All Gambling? | Page 7 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Forex gambling? 83 replies

Is Forex really gambling 25 replies

Trading vs gambling 97 replies

Trading IS Gambling... 46 replies

trading or gambling? 14 replies

Attachments: Are We All Gambling?
Exit Attachments

Are We All Gambling?

  • #121
  • Feb 1, 2019 7:04am Feb 1, 2019 7:04am
Quoting riclater211
{quote} All those words mean the same thing. Just saying. - Ric
I don't think so... yes there are words with the same meaning, but not the case..

https://www.quora.com/Whats-differen...g-and-gambling

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...d-gambling.asp



ask buffett if he's gambling or investing.
  • #122
  • Feb 1, 2019 7:35am Feb 1, 2019 7:35am
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} I don't think so... yes there are words with the same meaning, but not the case.. https://www.quora.com/Whats-differen...g-and-gambling https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...d-gambling.asp ask buffett if he's gambling or investing.
From your Investopedia article:

Speculation: Speculation involves calculating risk and conducting research before entering a financial transaction. A speculator buys or sells assets in hopes of having a bigger potential gain than the amount he risks.

Gambling: Converse to speculation, gambling involves a game of chance.

I ask again, will someone please explain the mathematical difference between, buying an asset in hopes of having a potential gain, and buy in a round of a game in hopes to have a potential game?

Does one involve probabilistic outcomes and the other doesn't?

No.

--

From top Quora answer: While the term gambling refers to the act of placing wages on particular outcomes or events taking place while betting is the term used to refer to agreement between two parties where one party makes a prediction and loses or makes money if his prediction turns to be true.

I ask again, will some please explain the mathematical difference between placing a wager on a particular outcome and making an agreement between two parties where one party makes a prediction on a particular outcome and losses or makes money if his prediction turns out to be true?

Does one involve probabilistic outcomes and the other doesn't?

No.
  • #123
  • Feb 1, 2019 8:02am Feb 1, 2019 8:02am
Quoting TEntropy
{quote} From your Investopedia article: Speculation: Speculation involves calculating risk and conducting research before entering a financial transaction. A speculator buys or sells assets in hopes of having a bigger potential gain than the amount he risks. Gambling: Converse to speculation, gambling involves a game of chance. I ask again, will someone please explain the mathematical difference between, buying an asset in hopes of having a potential gain, and buy in a round of a game in hopes to have a potential game? Does one involve probabilistic...

It has all do with positive expectancy, which exist in trading (business) not in gambling (game of luck)
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #124
  • Feb 1, 2019 8:03am Feb 1, 2019 8:03am
Quoting TEntropy
{quote} From your Investopedia article: Speculation: Speculation involves calculating risk and conducting research before entering a financial transaction. A speculator buys or sells assets in hopes of having a bigger potential gain than the amount he risks. Gambling: Converse to speculation, gambling involves a game of chance. I ask again, will someone please explain the mathematical difference between, buying an asset in hopes of having a potential gain, and buy in a round of a game in hopes to have a potential game? Does one involve probabilistic...
It is gonna be difficult now to contradict investopedia...
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #125
  • Feb 1, 2019 8:05am Feb 1, 2019 8:05am
Quoting TEntropy
{quote} From your Investopedia article: Speculation: Speculation involves calculating risk and conducting research before entering a financial transaction. A speculator buys or sells assets in hopes of having a bigger potential gain than the amount he risks. Gambling: Converse to speculation, gambling involves a game of chance. I ask again, will someone please explain the mathematical difference between, buying an asset in hopes of having a potential gain, and buy in a round of a game in hopes to have a potential game? Does one involve probabilistic...
Something with a probabilistic outcome does not make it necessarily gambling, as the article of investopedia says.
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #126
  • Feb 1, 2019 8:07am Feb 1, 2019 8:07am
Quoting LDFX
{quote} Something with a probabilistic outcome does not make it necessarily gambling, as the article of investopedia says.
Please quote the article where it says this. The only difference explicitly stated in the article is the degree of risk, however, the changing in degree of risk does not change the fact that you are waging/betting money on an "uncertain outcome" (according to the article).

Quoting LDFX
{quote} It has all do with positive expectancy, which exist in trading (business) not in gambling (game of luck)
This is not explicitly stated in either link and also, having a positive expectancy does not guarantee a profit, hence you are still taking a gamble.
  • #127
  • Feb 1, 2019 8:08am Feb 1, 2019 8:08am
Definition of gambling (source investopedia)

»
Gambling
Converse to speculation, gambling involves a game of chance. Generally, the odds are stacked against gamblers. When gambling, the probability of losing an investment is usually higher than the probability of winning more than the investment. In comparison to speculation, gambling has a high risk of losing the investment.
For example, a gambler opts to play a game of American roulette instead of speculating in the stock market. The gambler only places his bets on single numbers. However, the payout is only 35 to 1, while the odds against him winning are 37 to 1. So if he bets $2 on a single number, his potential gambling income is $70 (35*$2) but the odds of him winning is approximately 1/37. »

It says it all...
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #128
  • Feb 1, 2019 8:14am Feb 1, 2019 8:14am
Quoting LDFX
Definition of gambling (source investopedia) » Gambling Converse to speculation, gambling involves a game of chance. Generally, the odds are stacked against gamblers. When gambling, the probability of losing an investment is usually higher than the probability of winning more than the investment. In comparison to speculation, gambling has a high risk of losing the investment. For example, a gambler opts to play a game of American roulette instead of speculating in the stock market. The gambler only places his bets on single numbers. However, the...
This leads back to what everyone who has mentioned this has failed to do.

What is mathematically different from a game of chance and betting on uncertain outcomes?

Also, you can create the exact same odds quoted in that definition in fx. For example, risk 1 pip to make 37 pips with a two-pip spread.
  • #129
  • Feb 1, 2019 8:14am Feb 1, 2019 8:14am
I think we are gambling in some way. Of course, there are techniques and tactics but there is always some space for a chance or an unforeseen event to happen. Would be glad to hear some explanations from those who voted for "not gambling".
  • #130
  • Feb 1, 2019 8:17am Feb 1, 2019 8:17am
Quoting TEntropy
{quote} Please quote the article where it says this. The only difference explicitly stated in the article is the degree of risk, however, the changing in degree of risk does not change the fact that you are waging/betting money on an "uncertain outcome" (according to the article). {quote} This is not explicitly stated in either link and also, having a positive expectancy does not guarantee a profit, hence you are still taking a gamble.

« Gambling refers to wagering money in an event that has an uncertain outcome in hopes of winning more money, whereas speculation involves taking a calculated risk in an uncertain outcome. »

You do not believe what the article says and do not believe me if it is not in the article...

Having a positive expectancy does not make it gamble because the odds are in your favor and it is not about luck, in opposite to gambling.
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #131
  • Feb 1, 2019 8:19am Feb 1, 2019 8:19am
Quoting TEntropy
{quote} This leads back to what everyone who has mentioned this has failed to do. What is mathematically different from a game of chance and betting on uncertain outcomes? Also, you can create the exact same odds quoted in that definition in fx. For example, risk 1 pip to make 37 pips with a two-pip spread.

Yes, then they are gambling, I am sure there is a looooot that are gambling in forex, negative expectancy, luck, etc...
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #132
  • Feb 1, 2019 8:19am Feb 1, 2019 8:19am
yes we all humans are gambling because only humans have feeling of free will, all other life forms (including angels, demons and all gods) live on their instinct and environmental conditioning . for example you can imagine how a tree might feel because its just standing on one place and all world moving around it that how life forms feel when they have no free will.
In the court of lord, only love and devotion is counted...
  • #133
  • Feb 1, 2019 8:21am Feb 1, 2019 8:21am
in any case I thank TEntropy for the interesting subject... sorry if I ignored you bad habit
  • #134
  • Feb 1, 2019 8:21am Feb 1, 2019 8:21am
Everything you do in life is gambling. You gamble when you leave your bed in the morning, when you enter the bathroom, when you eat or drink something, when you leave the house, and the endless list goes on. Forex is business like any other...most people can't do it, just like they couldn't run any other business. Its not harder or easier, its just a business.
Everyone can see the chart, but only a few can actually read it.
  • #135
  • Feb 1, 2019 8:21am Feb 1, 2019 8:21am
Quoting LDFX
{quote} « Gambling refers to wagering money in an event that has an uncertain outcome in hopes of winning more money, whereas speculation involves taking a calculated risk in an uncertain outcome. » You do not believe what the article says and do not believe me if it is not in the article... Having a positive expectancy does not make it gamble because the odds are in your favor and it is not about luck, in opposite to gambling.
Again, we can agree to disagree because, in my opinion, you have no clue how probabilities work. You can still lose with an edge. Casinos have gone bankrupt even though they always had the edge by making bad bets.

There is no mathematical difference between an uncertain outcome simply because of your individual actions before placing a wager on what the uncertain outcome will be.

If you believe this, rationally it would make sense to think flushing my toilet 3 times will somehow affect the outcome of a coin toss, or dice roll, or trading day... But that doesn't make sense because your belief is wrong.
  • #136
  • Edited 8:36am Feb 1, 2019 8:22am | Edited 8:36am
Quoting HeyYou
in any case I thank TEntropy for the interesting subject... sorry if I ignored you bad habit

I agree, even we strongly disagreed it was an interesting talk / debate, each defending our opinions with arguments in a respectful manner.
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #137
  • Feb 1, 2019 8:27am Feb 1, 2019 8:27am
Quoting TEntropy
{quote} Again, we can agree to disagree because, in my opinion, you have no clue how probabilities work. You can still lose with an edge. Casinos have gone bankrupt even though they always had the edge by making bad bets. There is no mathematical difference between an uncertain outcome simply because of your individual actions before placing a wager on what the uncertain outcome will be. If you believe this, rationally it would make sense to think flushing my toilet 3 times will somehow affect the outcome of a coin toss, or dice roll, or trading...

The fact that you can lose in Trading even with a positive expectancy does not make it gambling.

The difference is the positive expectancy and that it is not entirely luck.
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #138
  • Feb 1, 2019 8:31am Feb 1, 2019 8:31am
Quoting LDFX
{quote} The fact that you can lose in Trading even with a positive expectancy does not make it gambling. The difference is the positive expectancy and that it is not entirely luck.
My final response to you since we have both agreed to disagree and have had a very nice debate on this issue.

If it wasn't gambling because you have an edge, there would be no bet a casino shouldn't take as long as they have the fund to match the bet, but this is not the case, because if they take too large of a bet, they can blow up, because they are waging money on an uncertain outcome, a game of chance, luck, a probabilistic outcome, etc...

Thanks again for the convo, it has been a pleasure!
  • #139
  • Feb 1, 2019 8:38am Feb 1, 2019 8:38am
Quoting TEntropy
{quote} My final response to you since we have both agreed to disagree and have had a very nice debate on this issue. If it wasn't gambling because you have an edge, there would be no bet a casino shouldn't take as long as they have the fund to match the bet, but this is not the case, because if they take too large of a bet, they can blow up, because they are waging money on an uncertain outcome, a game of chance, luck, a probabilistic outcome, etc... Thanks again for the convo, it has been a pleasure!

We do same as the casino in trading, money management, in order to have a positive expectancy.

yes cheers , see you around FF.
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #140
  • Feb 1, 2019 8:47am Feb 1, 2019 8:47am
Quoting HeyYou
I bet the NO will winn {image}
It doesn't matter whether the "no" win, our life generally is all about gambling. Your parents spend a lot of money going through you school, even to having University certificate. You come home, years without job or even the job you call job can't take care of your expenses. Your parents gambled with their money on you.
We gamble everyday without knowing that we gamble
Make all mistakes in demo and rain in pips in live account
9jatrader All Time Return: -77.5%
0 traders viewing now