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Are We All Gambling?

  • #21
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:05am Jan 31, 2019 9:05am
Quoting prophetfx
{quote} Gambling is random and you cant control (whatsoever) about the out come, you cant even analyze it because its just cards which are spade randomly. Trading has many tools which can give you analysis and you can trade small or micro to save your account.

Hmmm, I don't think I would agree with this.

All of the same controls you have in trading, at least the ones you mentioned, could be applied to a roulette table. You control how much to bet, what table limits you play, etc. You could also technically build an MA or Stochastic, any other TA indicator to monitor the count of the "random walk" as determined by the outcome of the roulette wheel.

Also in trading, you can not control the outcome of any one trade unless you are literally in control of the market itself, just like in roulette, the casino can not control the outcome of any one spin, again which is why they have table limits.
  • #22
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:07am Jan 31, 2019 9:07am
yes so any thing which you can control is not gambling, you just need to master and improve your level.

roulette or FX if you have control on it (minor or major) it is not gambling.
NEVER BREAK RULES
  • #23
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:12am Jan 31, 2019 9:12am
Quoting LDFX
{quote} Not at all, I never said that. Read again instead of snuking what you want to believe. I won’t begin to disert about philosophy. Luck, chance and probabilities are in all aspect of life, that doesn’t mean it is gambling.
These are your literal words:

Quoting LDFX
{quote} I voted no. For me it all depends how you see the market, if you take it as a game then no doubt you are gambling, if you take it as a business then not.
I don't believe I was snuking at all.
  • #24
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:13am Jan 31, 2019 9:13am
Quoting TEntropy
Looking to take a poll of the traders on here. What does gambling mean to you and are we as traders doing it? Does betting on anything probabilistic equate to gambling? Is it only gambling if you have a negative expectancy like playing roulette? If so, is the counter-part to your bet (the casino) not gambling? The dictionary definition of gambling is: 1. the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes. Do you agree with this?

Yes, absolutely. We are betting money on unknown outcomes. That means there is risk involved and risk is a gamble. A lot of your really successful traders understand this and apply as much game theory as they can to their trading efforts and money management. In my experience, most of the people who disagree with the idea of trading as gambling, have a need to feel like they are doing something legitimate. That's just my take, other's will disagree.
When you hit 50, coffee becomes part of a proper modeling pipeline.
  • #25
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:13am Jan 31, 2019 9:13am
Quoting hilmy83
Definition of gamble (Entry 1 of 2) intransitive verb 1a: to play a game for money or property b: to bet on an uncertain outcome 2: to stake something on a contingency (see CONTINGENCY sense 1) : take a chance transitive verb 1: to risk by gambling : WAGER...
No 2 shows we are all gamblers. Nothing wrong with gambling. It has shown that the great and successful traders were Black Jack players( gamblers )
Make all mistakes in demo and rain in pips in live account
9jatrader All Time Return: -3.4%
  • #26
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:14am Jan 31, 2019 9:14am
Quoting TEntropy
{quote} These are your literal words: {quote} I don't believe I was snuking at all.

How you see the market will define your actions, gambling or investing, this is what I said.

I apologize if you wasn’t.
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #27
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:15am Jan 31, 2019 9:15am
They( Black Jack players ) know when odd is in their favour and increase the risk
Make all mistakes in demo and rain in pips in live account
9jatrader All Time Return: -3.4%
  • #28
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:15am Jan 31, 2019 9:15am
Quoting 9jatrader
{quote} No 2 shows we are all gamblers. Nothing wrong with gambling. It has shown that the great and successful traders were Black Jack players( gamblers )
Perfect example. Black Jack players are good at understanding when the deck is loaded and especially when and how much to bet.
When you hit 50, coffee becomes part of a proper modeling pipeline.
  • #29
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:17am Jan 31, 2019 9:17am
Risk does not make it gambling, in fact, all businesses have a risk.

Gambling is those things where you dont have ANY control whatsoever.
NEVER BREAK RULES
  • #30
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:20am Jan 31, 2019 9:20am
Quoting TheFxAnalyst
{quote} Perfect example. Black Jack players are good at understanding when the deck is loaded and especially when and how much to bet.
Yea. Successful traders are successful gamblers
Make all mistakes in demo and rain in pips in live account
9jatrader All Time Return: -3.4%
  • #31
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:22am Jan 31, 2019 9:22am
Quoting prophetfx
Risk does not make it gambling, in fact, all businesses have a risk. Gambling is those things where you dont have ANY control whatsoever.
I am not saying the fact there is a risk is what makes it gambling, it's the fact that you are looking for a result based on a probabilistic outcome or an outcome based on chance in layman's terms.
  • #32
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:25am Jan 31, 2019 9:25am
Quoting TEntropy
{quote} I am not saying the fact there is a risk is what makes it gambling, it's the fact that you are looking for a result based on a probabilistic outcome or an outcome based on chance in layman's terms.

You said it all, gambling is betting on an outcome based on chance.
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #33
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:28am Jan 31, 2019 9:28am
Quoting prophetfx
Risk does not make it gambling, in fact, all businesses have a risk. Gambling is those things where you dont have ANY control whatsoever.
Check 1b the definition. There is a word "Uncertainty" there. Where can we find more uncertainty than Forex
Definition of gamble
(Entry 1 of 2)
intransitive verb
1a: to play a game for money or property
b: to bet on an uncertain outcome
2: to stake something on a contingency (see CONTINGENCY sense 1) : take a chance
transitive verb
1: to risk by gambling : WAGER
2: VENTURE, HAZARD
gamble
noun
Definition of gamble (Entry 2 of 2)
1a: an act having an element of risk
b: something chancy
Make all mistakes in demo and rain in pips in live account
9jatrader All Time Return: -3.4%
  • #34
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:29am Jan 31, 2019 9:29am
Quoting TheFxAnalyst
{quote} Yes, absolutely. We are betting money on unknown outcomes. That means there is risk involved and risk is a gamble. A lot of your really successful traders understand this and apply as much game theory as they can to their trading efforts and money management. In my experience, most of the people who disagree with the idea of trading as gambling, have a need to feel like they are doing something legitimate. That's just my take, other's will disagree.
I 100% agree with your conclusion that people don't want to consider it gambling to give themselves some form of legitimacy or control over their decisions and the outcomes of those decisions.
  • #35
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:30am Jan 31, 2019 9:30am
Quoting 9jatrader
{quote} Check 1b the definition. There is a word "Uncertainty" there. Where can we find more uncertainty than Forex...
Match.com (at least that's been my experience)
When you hit 50, coffee becomes part of a proper modeling pipeline.
  • #36
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:35am Jan 31, 2019 9:35am
Quoting TEntropy
{quote} I 100% agree with your conclusion that people don't want to consider it gambling to give themselves some form of legitimacy or control over their decisions and the outcomes of those decisions.
I think it is you that’s just want to consider it gambling to not give you some form of legitimacy or control, since how long are you loosing in forex ?

As you say, “decisions”, what decision can you make on a game of luck ? In forex a lot can influence your decisions.
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #37
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:46am Jan 31, 2019 9:46am
Quoting LDFX
{quote} I think it is you that’s just want to consider it gambling to not give you some form of legitimacy or control, since how long are you loosing in forex ? As you say, “decisions”, what decision can you make on a game of luck ? In forex a lot can influence your decisions.
This discussion has nothing to do with whether I am profitable, you are profitable, or if Batman is profitable. It is about making decisions based on chance/luck/probabilistic outcomes, and what that means to us.

Do you mind fleshing out the details on what the difference of luck, chance, and a probabilistic outcome is in your eyes?

Because mathematically, they are all the exact same.

Also, there are many things you can control when making a decision on a game of luck/chance/probabilities.

You can choose:
- Whether to play or not to play at all, ever
- What to play
- When to play and when not to play
- How long you will play
- How much you bet on each play
- How much you will bet over an entire session
- When you will stop playing based on losses
- When you will stop playing based on gains
etc.
  • #38
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:52am Jan 31, 2019 9:52am
“:
- Whether to play or not to play at all, ever
- What to play
- When to play and when not to play
- How long you will play
- How much you bet on each play
- How much you will bet over an entire session
- When you will stop playing based on losses
- When you will stop playing based on gains”

lol, these decisions has nothing to do with the game but about you, if you play, when you play, how long you play, etc...

Decisions would be why, on the roulette for example, choosing the 8 instead of 13 ?
LDFX Trading Ltd
  • #39
  • Jan 31, 2019 9:52am Jan 31, 2019 9:52am
Quoting 9jatrader
{quote} Yea. Successful traders are successful gamblers
when u buy something then sell it for profit that's tradings and it's a business
example
u buy horses and then sell them at a higher price
u just bet on a horse that's gonna win the race!
feel the difference ??!
so successful traders are successful traders!
  • #40
  • Jan 31, 2019 10:02am Jan 31, 2019 10:02am
Quoting LDFX
“: - Whether to play or not to play at all, ever - What to play - When to play and when not to play - How long you will play - How much you bet on each play - How much you will bet over an entire session - When you will stop playing based on losses - When you will stop playing based on gains” lol, these decisions has nothing to do with the game but about you, if you play, when you play, how long you play, etc... Decisions would be why, on the roulette for example, choosing the 8 instead of 13 ?

I think you are missing the forest for the trees.

Any outcome from choosing 8 instead of 13, regardless of the reason you chose it, would be determined by the game, not by you.

Any outcome from choosing to sell at 1.14 or buy at 1.13, regardless of the reason you chose it, would be determined by the market, not you.
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