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How many of you, still prescribe demo trading to others?

  • #21
  • Jan 22, 2019 12:31am Jan 22, 2019 12:31am
Quoting moneymaker2
{quote} I'm apparently wired a little differently than most, so I think that the system is like 80%, and the other two split up the remaining 20% in no particular order. I feel if you have a good, solid method that has a high performance rate, that in itself takes care of the money management issue for the most part, and emotions follow to become less and less. Most MM "systems" are based on surviving a lot of losses because the method is sorta expected to lose almost as often as it is profitable. With a good method, you don't have to focus so much...
i'm having a early morning laugh reading your post thanks for it... so reading your post evereybody can be a trader ... so if give the same winning system to 10 peoples with the same entry and exit rules 10 of them will be winner ? are you really sure ??? anyway have a wonderful day ..
trying to make everyday the best risk/reward decisions possible
  • #22
  • Jan 22, 2019 12:49am Jan 22, 2019 12:49am
Quoting slowbrain
{quote} i'm having a early morning laugh reading your post thanks for it... so reading your post evereybody can be a trader ... so if give the same winning system to 10 peoples with the same entry and exit rules 10 of them will be winner ? are you really sure ??? anyway have a wonderful day ..
Same option from me & I’m also interested to know his opinion on all of your questions.
  • #23
  • Jan 22, 2019 8:44am Jan 22, 2019 8:44am
Quoting slowbrain
{quote} i'm having a early morning laugh reading your post thanks for it... so reading your post evereybody can be a trader ... so if give the same winning system to 10 peoples with the same entry and exit rules 10 of them will be winner ? are you really sure ??? anyway have a wonderful day ..
I didn't say the same system would work for everyone, I said "I feel if you have a good, solid method that has a high performance rate, that in itself takes care of the money management issue for the most part, and emotions follow to become less and less."

If you/everyone has a good, solid method that has a high performance rate, sure, you/everyone can be a trader. Why couldn't you be? And if you have a high performance rate system, you would be less inclined to panic every time you got into a trade. Why would you? And knowing you have a high performance system, and you are stressing less, you would be less inclined to forever trade micro lots out of fear of losing. Why wouldn't you?

I think people focus too much on the specific money management principles and how to become emotionless when both are moot points if you don't have a good, solid method with a high performance rate. It does you little good to focus on the race track layout and the sponsors you are gonna get if your race car isn't very fast! (shout out to robots4me )

Anyway, it makes perfect sense to me.....because the alternative would be that everyone with a good, solid high performance system CAN'T be a trader because they haven't mastered their emotions....and I just don't get that.
  • #24
  • Jan 22, 2019 9:44am Jan 22, 2019 9:44am
Quoting moneymaker2
{quote} I said "I feel if you have a good, solid method that has a high performance rate,
Then where we need to practice first (strategy developing process) trading strategies? On live? Really?
  • #25
  • Jan 22, 2019 9:56am Jan 22, 2019 9:56am
Quoting DarrenLehma
{quote} Then where we need to practice first (strategy developing process) trading strategies? On live? Really?
No.....remember, I'm one of the ones that think a demo should be used to test strategies, that's why I wrote "I do think that demos are needed to figure out any strategies or test ideas." on my first post.....
  • #26
  • Jan 22, 2019 11:21am Jan 22, 2019 11:21am
Imho high performance strategies can't be developed from demo trading. On the contrary, demo trading hinders the research work required to develop such high performance strategy resulting in incomplete research in most cases. How can demo trading help in developing high performance strategy ? None. Only solid research work can and it's badly lacking in this area. Almost all strategies posted on forums are superficial with no depth. That's the reality because very little time and effort is allotted to research work.
  • #27
  • Jan 22, 2019 11:51am Jan 22, 2019 11:51am
Quoting moneymaker2
{quote} I didn't say the same system would work for everyone, I said "I feel if you have a good, solid method that has a high performance rate, that in itself takes care of the money management issue for the most part, and emotions follow to become less and less." If you/everyone has a good, solid method that has a high performance rate, sure, you/everyone can be a trader. Why couldn't you be? And if you have a high performance rate system, you would be less inclined to panic every time you got into a trade. Why would you? And knowing you have a...
I agree with you.

Inversely, so many traders on forum quote emotion as the number one factor for success or failure. Doesn't it tell the quality of strategies used for trading that badly affected their emotion ?
  • #28
  • Jan 23, 2019 4:31am Jan 23, 2019 4:31am
I used a live test account in my broker before trying out any real strategy. That live test is based on real live server, and is only available to existing clients. Only trying out in a real trading environment will I be able to trust that particular broker with my trading strategy.
  • #29
  • Jan 23, 2019 4:43am Jan 23, 2019 4:43am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} Yes -- I strongly suggest jumping in with a Real micro-account. Learning to trade is sort of like learning to swim. You can be taught various techniques in the classroom and practice exercises on dry land, but it ain't the same as being in the water. Just as there is a "disconnect" between back testing and Demo accounts, there is also a "disconnect" between Demo and Real accounts. Depending on your broker, Demo and Real accounts may use different data. Also, a Demo account does not include the round-trip to the investment bank (i.e. your...
robots4me ....You deserve a medal for such an insightful answer.i have for the most part of my career been working with or teaching a lot of people,and i learned this a lot.(i learned that or let met put it this way,they taught me that demo trading has no 100% feel or comparison to the actual thing)

I know most people are built differently psychologically and mentally,some are actually able to pull off the transition from demo to live with ease...but most people struggle and take quiet a bit to adjust-they take long to realize that live environments is not similar to demo trading.

If you know how to use the trading software and you have a trading journal-why waist your time on demo environment.Remember it takes perfect practice to make perfect.not any just any practice out there makes perfect.

OPEN A SMALL/MICRO ACCOUNT 50USD TO 100USD...Get used to the thrill of live action/environment,day in and day out as you learn,get used to its ups and downs most importantly its reactions and behaviors or character(live environment has its own character that Mr Demo knows nothing about).AND TRUST ME,approach you learning this way and YOU WILL OFTEN MAKE THE "spend 2-3 years on demo" guys careers look stagnant or unprogressive.

People are told to spend months or years on demo only to find out they are going to suffer another 2 years thereafter-to get used to the Live queen and "her character"!!!

I don't want to type any further...NOBODY COULD HAVE SAID IT BETTER.
  • #30
  • Jan 25, 2019 12:14am Jan 25, 2019 12:14am
Definitely demo trade. Why risk real money until you know you can win successfully and consistently?
  • #31
  • Jan 25, 2019 1:21pm Jan 25, 2019 1:21pm
I would recommend demo trading to get used to things. Getting used to your broker and how spreads work is an important lesson, for example. You can either chose to pay for it or get that lesson for free. I guarantee you'll be a lot less perturbed if you're trying to figure out how you got "ticked" into/stopped out of a trade when it shows that price never reached your entry/stop if you didn't have to pay for it financially. It's tough trying to learn all the ins and outs of your broker, the software, your strategy, then on top of all that, having to deal with the emotional aspect of losing real money. Get the other stuff under control, which someone above pointed out is half the equation, then go in with a small amount of money after a couple months, after you have shown consistent profit and are comfortable with all the other crap, then introduce emotion, and concentrate on that, while keeping the other stuff (i.e. your trade plan/strategy) consistent.

Since everyone likes analogies so much, how about wrestling, or any other combat sport. I guarantee no body here, who wrestled in high school, had their first experience being in a meet. They went to practice to learn. They practiced what was taught, in a controlled environment to work on moves. Then you had "live" practices, where you practiced at speed. Only after that did you dual.

Most of what you do at the beginning will be wrong. Technically. Not due to emotion, but because you're applying the strategy wrong, or drawing your trendlines/Supports etc wrong, interpreting the market wrong. These are all lessons that can be free. Why take that risk?

Obviously, trading isn't as fast paced (for most lol) as wrestling, but you get the idea.. My advice anyway..
  • #32
  • Jan 26, 2019 1:43pm Jan 26, 2019 1:43pm
I have always prescribe demo accounts to trade for new traders at the start, but not for actual trading for say. I prescribe the demo account for the purpose of allowing the trader to obtain experience in using the platform. Getting familiar with the platform will give you a greater advantage if something would to have gone against you in you favor.

I do on the other hand don't agree with having a demo account for to long to trade with, it builds the wrong type of confidence that you would need to be a successful trader. People are emotionally driven creatures, so to have the right type of confidence is key and that means you need to lose. I hate to say it, but very few can succeed right out of the gate and for the others, you have to pay for you tuition for your education. I know I did.

Good Luck
  • #33
  • Jan 26, 2019 7:09pm Jan 26, 2019 7:09pm
after reading this thread i am astounded by the amount of great traders that did not use demo either they are 1>>lying 2>> must of bust a lot of accounts 3>> no knowledge on how forex works , i can keep going with this post but i can bet a few are brokers to miss lead new traders
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #34
  • Jan 26, 2019 7:14pm Jan 26, 2019 7:14pm
Quoting EXpRINCE
{quote} robots4me ....You deserve a medal for such an insightful answer.i have for the most part of my career been working with or teaching a lot of people,and i learned this a lot.(i learned that or let met put it this way,they taught me that demo trading has no 100% feel or comparison to the actual thing) I know most people are built differently psychologically and mentally,some are actually able to pull off the transition from demo to live with ease...but most people struggle and take quiet a bit to adjust-they take long to realize that live...
i was on demo for a long time looking at brokers , i went from demo to live account without a problem people who i taught also did the same everyone is different some are in greed mode when they go to live , people that go to live account straight away are also in greed mode after trading for over 40 years i have seen it all
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #35
  • Edited Jan 27, 2019 3:17am Jan 26, 2019 8:11pm | Edited Jan 27, 2019 3:17am
Quoting Aussi
after reading this thread i am astounded by the amount of great traders that did not use demo either they are 1>>lying 2>> must of bust a lot of accounts 3>> no knowledge on how forex works , i can keep going with this post but i can bet a few are brokers to miss lead new traders
This factory is funded by the brokers to keep on winning "small" accounts from noobs who cannot afford to fund big accounts. It is all part of their business model to keep on churning "small" accounts with huge leverage. There is a reason why Casinos have far more real estate acreage allocated to slot machines. Same concept applies here. The lure of TEs with 1000+% is far much stronger than a 0.1% on 100K account. Mass psychological brainwash happens on the factory each and every day.

P.S. I was one of those idiots funding over 100s of "micro-subaccounts" over and over in the hopes of turning $10 into 100K.... it never happened and it will NEVER happen and anyone who suggest is 100% fake news!

To OP: Don't waste your time on my post.
Staying in my lane...
  • #36
  • Edited 2:05am Jan 27, 2019 1:47am | Edited 2:05am
Quoting Aussi
after reading this thread i am astounded by the amount of great traders that did not use demo either they are 1>>lying 2>> must of bust a lot of accounts 3>> no knowledge on how forex works , i can keep going with this post but i can bet a few are brokers to miss lead new traders
AUSSI....SENIOR,You are PARANOID!!!!
NOO BROKER IS OUT TO GET YOU!!(YOU LOOSE/DON'T PERFORM AND GET BIG RESULTS BECAUSE OF YOUR OWN SHORTCOMINGS,OR YOU EXPERIENCE RESISTANCE IN THE PROGRESS OF YOUR CAREER BECAUSE OF YOUR OWN SHORT COMINGS).
Stop blaming other entities,(brokers/banks)!!!

A FAILURE WILL ALWAYS FAIL NO MATTER THE BROKER/BANK.A WINNER WILL ALWAYS WIN NO MATTER THE BROKERS/BANKS.

Most median Traders have a tendency to believe their Brokers are out to get them.I know i shouldn't be laughing but one day you will realize how funny this is-if you actually do make it to the toP.(yes there are some brokers that are shady out there,BUT most don't even have to be shady TO GET YOUR MONEY-YOU ARE JUST GOING TO GIVE TO THEM ANYWAYS(they just have to let you have/open a trading account with them and WATCH YOU HANG Yourselves!)..without them even lifting a single finger-expect for letting you open an account with them that is.

WHY?BECAUSE YOU ALL THINK YOU KNOW IN HERE.They say success is contagious,you know what,So is failure and mediocrity!!

DID YOU EVEN READ THE DISCUSSION FROM ROOT LEVEL(where it started),up to here????
Or like most people do-you just actually jumped in to the discussion to prove how much you know/think you know.

What i have noticed is most you in here-Have a tendency to think you know too much!which is really not working out for you.(THE PROBLEM WITH MOST PEOPLE IF FF IS THINKING THEY KNOOOOOW),But year after year they are still in the same space/place.


Which is,furthermore actually funny/strange/amazing looking at their 500usd and 1000 USD accounts-look i don't mean to disrespect anybody in here(i apologise if i am) but Tell me-how can somebody running a +/-1000usd-account(which is the average for most you in here)-THINK YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE INSIDES OF OUR BUSINESS.(i dn't even want to speak about the 5000usd to 100 000 usd accnts runners because they are rare in here aswell)

Our point is/was-senior,why keep prescribing demo trading to a person/trader who has a trading strategy(that works for them) and has a knowledge of how to use the trading platforms(tools of the business)???

AND THE OTHER THING MOST OF YOUR WANT TO MAKE IT BIG IN FOREX/TRADING BUT YOU AFRAID OF BLOWING AN ACCOUNT/S(COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE).amongst other things.
(This is like saying you want to fly a plane but you afraid of being in the air,so you will drive the plane on ground forever.)...do you even understand what you are saying....!...There are no shortcuts.you can't cheat your way to the treasure chest, till you take all the lessons the market wants to teach you.YOU ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE!!!You can't dodge the lessons-if you do you are always bound to be struck by hurricane katrina!!(we all know how devastating that was.)


ITS ALWAYS A CHALLENGE POPPING IN THIS FORUM-YOU MEET KINDS OF PEOPLE WHO IRRESPECTIVE OF HOW MUCH "THEY KNOW"...YEAR AFTER YEAR THEY ARE ALWAYS IN THE SAME SEGMENT.

INSERT:I ONCE HAD TEA WITH A FRIEND FROM BARCLAYS-I JOKINGLY TOLD HIM I WAS GOING TO BREAK ALL OF THEM,HE IN-TURN SAID SAID TO ME"I DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE EVERY 10 TO 20 MIL USD I TAKE FROM THEM MONTHLy,THE OTHER RETAILERS/MEDIOCRE HEDGE FUNDS WILL GLADLY BE WILLING TO REPLENISH IT OR GIVE IT BACK TO THEM "...I was pissed,still am.
BUT NOW I REALIZE THE GENTLE MAN WAS RIGHT.

If most you don't get rid of this small mindsets you pass on to each other in here,AND poor perceptions and assumptions THAT ARE SO HARD WIREd INTO YOUR MINDS/SUBCONSCIOUSi(some of us don't even know where you get this),i swear you are not going anywhere.You will always be making the 5k and 10 k a year and be comforting yourselves that this is the best you can get out there...and be or always be like "oohhh"... like most of you say "ohh anyone claiming they can double accounts within a week is lying,and oohhh anyone who claims to not make any looses is lying-slash losses are part of the game,ohh only use/risk 2% to survive and this..ohh this..oohh that".
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  • #37
  • Jan 27, 2019 6:18pm Jan 27, 2019 6:18pm
My advice is to always use a live account and trade your way out of microlots.
Dragon Rider
  • #38
  • Jan 27, 2019 7:40pm Jan 27, 2019 7:40pm
Quoting EXpRINCE
{quote} AUSSI....SENIOR,You are PARANOID!!!! NOO BROKER IS OUT TO GET YOU!!(YOU LOOSE/DON'T PERFORM AND GET BIG RESULTS BECAUSE OF YOUR OWN SHORTCOMINGS,OR YOU EXPERIENCE RESISTANCE IN THE PROGRESS OF YOUR CAREER BECAUSE OF YOUR OWN SHORT COMINGS). Stop blaming other entities,(brokers/banks)!!! A FAILURE WILL ALWAYS FAIL NO MATTER THE BROKER/BANK.A WINNER WILL ALWAYS WIN NO MATTER THE BROKERS/BANKS. Most median Traders have a tendency to believe their Brokers are out to get them.I know i shouldn't be laughing but one day you will realize how funny...
i have the knowledge that you lack i can see , shame forex brokers do take advantage of new traders , i also shake hands with a few broker and we have a beer and a wine and a pork sandwich yummy yummy and they will still take advantage of my account if i let them , and after looking how you write i believe your a broker

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people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #39
  • Jan 27, 2019 10:31pm Jan 27, 2019 10:31pm
Quoting barloc
My advice is to always use a live account and trade your way out of microlots.
Of course; it’s a choice; cent type account is very useful in this case! By the way, I used cent account after demo.
  • #40
  • Feb 2, 2019 1:11am Feb 2, 2019 1:11am
Quoting moneymaker2
{quote} No.....remember, I'm one of the ones that think a demo should be used to test strategies, that's why I wrote "I do think that demos are needed to figure out any strategies or test ideas." on my first post.....
Then I must say; for testing trading strategy back-testing is the best! Have you ever used back-testing service?
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