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Trading Expectations vs Reality

  • #21
  • Nov 24, 2018 12:49pm Nov 24, 2018 12:49pm
I started out in trading purely out of curiosity because I was interested in how financial markets work, and so I had no expectation of profit.

I realised early on that big profits are possible, but only if either

a)you’re prepared to take big risks (which are not compatible with good money management principles)

b) you already have a large account

Nowadays, having built, refined and thoroughly tested profitable strategies, I know what can consistently be achieved.

I would say that if you can consistently achieve just breaking even (and not making a loss) you are doing much better than the vast majority of traders.

As for profit, with between 3% and 5% profit per month you are doing very well. (This equates to between 36% and 60% annually)
  • #22
  • Nov 24, 2018 3:12pm Nov 24, 2018 3:12pm
Quoting MariaEduard
{quote} One year but no withdrawal? That’s really interesting mate; then how to you maintain your daily cost?
Also, some of us pay tax.
So even if we decide not to withdraw the profits and to let the account grow,
we still have a tax liability for those profits which must be settled at the end of the financial year.
Have a nice day
  • #23
  • Nov 24, 2018 5:02pm Nov 24, 2018 5:02pm
Quoting MariaEduard
{quote} One year but no withdrawal? That’s really interesting mate; then how to you maintain your daily cost?
not just for one year but probably for next 8 years or something around that..... if you make calculates in Excell ... if you start with 100$ and able to make 10% per month after 8 years your 100$ will turn to be 2,500,000$... but most of us never care about that small return... we just want 50% and 100% and we want to be rich in few months... in the end we lose everything and we waste years of our life running behind fake dreams... so it's better to accept realistic return and spend years grow my account instead of waste more and more years and money running behind fake dreams .. and in the end wake to find myself i get older and didn't achieve anything... i am in market since years but i realized i never have any record i always jump from broker to broker .. open and close accounts...all that because greedy ... so my plan is :
1-work in normal job so i can maintain my daily costs .
2-just stuck to one account and build good record for long period and don't thinking in withdraw anything ... i just consider it as long term invest that i can claim it later when i get older.
3-after have good record i will try to increase my income by apply on firms that can fund successful traders or investors platforms so it's will be good business to me.



Quoting billv
{quote} Also, some of us pay tax. So even if we decide not to withdraw the profits and to let the account grow, we still have a tax liability for those profits which must be settled at the end of the financial year.
Thanks to God i don't pay taxes :")))
  • #24
  • Nov 24, 2018 5:26pm Nov 24, 2018 5:26pm
Quoting JsCave
{quote} Thanks to God i don't pay taxes :")))
I know what you mean but unless I'm a resident in another country, tax is VERY hard to avoid
Tax Authorities are now clamping down worldwide and are exchanging information between them,

Tax cheats sooner or later are likely to get caught.
Hiding behind a company is no longer as effective as it was before.
Even Swiss banks are now required to provide client details and other info so the risk of being caught is just too high.
Have a nice day
  • #25
  • Nov 26, 2018 6:17am Nov 26, 2018 6:17am
Quoting JsCave
{quote} not just for one year but probably for next 8 years or something around that..... if you make calculates in Excell ... if you start with 100$ and able to make 10% per month after 8 years your 100$ will turn to be 2,500,000$... but most of us never care about that small return... we just want 50% and 100% and we want to be rich in few months... in the end we lose everything and we waste years of our life running behind fake dreams... so it's better to accept realistic return and spend years grow my account instead of waste more and more years...
It looks amazing mate, a perfect plan! Now I got your strategy! Thanks for your long tail details.
  • #26
  • Nov 27, 2018 12:22pm Nov 27, 2018 12:22pm
What I really would like to know from succesfull traders. I mean by that people that are profitable in a period of at least 12 months on a real account and consider them having a fixed extra income out of Forex trading :
How many years did it really take you before you could say to yourself : I am stable and winning money on the medium to long term.

I know nobody will share his exact trading strategy having worked so hard and so long to get there, but at least it would be interesting to know how much time it took you to get there.

For myself I have been like more than 3 years since I started with my first course in Forex trading. I am still not stable, but I have been working hard between 3 and 5 hours a day for longer periods and I think I will be getting there. I won t let it go untill I make it. I m too close and have putted so much time and energy in it that I will continue. Oh and I have not blown any account.

Personally I would say that 4 % a month is a good number. In my opinion people wanting 20 % a month or more, they have to make too much risks.
It has no sense to me maybe winning 10 to 20 % a month and then after a year of succes blow your account because of the risk you are taking..
I never risk more than 3 % in all of my open positions together.
  • #27
  • Nov 27, 2018 1:50pm Nov 27, 2018 1:50pm
Quoting felipe6
In my opinion people wanting 20 % a month or more, they have to take too much risk
Yes this is correct and the sooner we realize this and accept it, the sooner we will become consistently profitable.
Have a nice day
  • #28
  • Edited 7:27pm Nov 27, 2018 7:14pm | Edited 7:27pm
Quoting lolpie
. My expectation was an ATM money printing machine, HA! .but in my defense I was 19 at the time {image}
that was me at 19 but I did start putting in some serious hours years later, I'm glad I did start trading years later if I had started with a live account back when I was 19 boy oh boy that would have sent to me ruins ASAP with that kind of attitude I probably never would come back, so starting out later in life (and I mean after your mid 20s because you're less naive and more pragmatic) can actually work in your favor in my opinion rather than earlier say in your teens.

but some people mature fast regardless of their age.

as for consistency I think we need understand what we're capable of we've all heard trend is your friend and it really is the problem with that is they're many ways people trade trends some are easier some are extremely difficult to understand let alone master, as for me that was the key moment what I am capable of ? what are my limits ? because we're all oh so very different not only in the way we perceive data but how we process and understand we can't exactly replicate someone no matter how competent he/she is.
...
  • #29
  • Nov 27, 2018 8:40pm Nov 27, 2018 8:40pm
Quoting Oldtraderman
{quote} Nice idea for a thread. I've been trading professionally and personally for over 30 years, and the last decade trading full time for a living from my own account. And to be truthful, I wouldn't encourage most people to try that. Trading is a tough game, not because there is anything technically so inherently difficult about it, but because the psychological and emotional demands are so high and massively understimated by most. And if you then add the pressure of making a living from it, that is hard indeed. Then, when you've wiped the account,...
I completely agree.
Keep alive a genuine winning attitude
  • #30
  • Nov 27, 2018 10:54pm Nov 27, 2018 10:54pm
Quoting felipe6
What I really would like to know from succesfull traders. I mean by that people that are profitable in a period of at least 12 months on a real account and consider them having a fixed extra income out of Forex trading : How many years did it really take you before you could say to yourself : I am stable and winning money on the medium to long term. I know nobody will share his exact trading strategy having worked so hard and so long to get there, but at least it would be interesting to know how much time it took you to get there. For myself I have...
i was on demo for 5 years and traded aud/usa went to real with a $500 and kept increasing it then went from 1 cent to 2 cents then 5 cents to ten , i also did scalping 20 cent trades closing trades every day in all was making 150 to 200 per week working the european open , and it grew and grew ,
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #31
  • Edited 1:09am Nov 28, 2018 12:55am | Edited 1:09am
Quoting felipe6
.... Personally I would say that 4 % a month is a good number. In my opinion people wanting 20 % a month or more, they have to make too much risks. It has no sense to me maybe winning 10 to 20 % a month and then after a year of succes blow your account because of the risk you are taking.. I never risk more than 3 % in all of my open positions together.
Sound advice. 4% a month, totally uncompounded, i.e. withdrawing all profits, is still approaching 50%pa returns. Check out professional CTA and hedge funds average returns and see how many make that. It would be extremely good to be able to keep that up, year in, year out.

Double digit monrhly returns are not hard to achieve - get lucky and/or take big risks can get you there easily enough. It's doing that each and every month that's the hard bit. That the #1 reason for account failure is poor money management tells you most traders are taking rather bigger risks than they should for the size of their account.

Keep the position size small, keep the total risk under tight control, and you may have a chance. Otherwise, the risk of ruin approaches 100% the longer you trade as you must inevitably run into the big, bad trade or patch of bad trades that will wipe you out if you are risking too much.
  • #32
  • Nov 28, 2018 9:45am Nov 28, 2018 9:45am
Quoting Oldtraderman
{quote} Sound advice. 4% a month, totally uncompounded, i.e. withdrawing all profits, is still approaching 50%pa returns. Check out professional CTA and hedge funds average returns and see how many make that. It would be extremely good to be able to keep that up, year in, year out. Double digit monrhly returns are not hard to achieve - get lucky and/or take big risks can get you there easily enough. It's doing that each and every month that's the hard bit. That the #1 reason for account failure is poor money management tells you most traders are...
Mate; even 2% monthly return would be enough, consistency is the key!
  • #33
  • Nov 28, 2018 11:26am Nov 28, 2018 11:26am
10 percent a month isn't difficult to achieve
  • #34
  • Last Post: Nov 28, 2018 11:31am Nov 28, 2018 11:31am
Those who knows about the trading ideas, points, up and down, investment time and all....so you they try to trade but in safe way....and those who they know the market and in one shot they can trade and get good return...but its not like that.......

Most of the person think that trading is very easy....just open an account invest some money and trade......but in reality there are many key points which should keep in mind . So All in all we need to use both experience trading & system trading. As like one of the forex advice club members advice for eurusd point it was awesome...
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