Balance vs Equity | Forex Factory

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Balance vs Equity

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited 7:43pm Oct 29, 2018 7:22pm | Edited 7:43pm
A logical explanation from Veefx:
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This is from a user:
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This is from my robot... Looks fantastic?
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Alas, but the truth is.....
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Now you know why he cannot quit his shit job...... quite hilarious.
It's very easy basics but it seems still so many people don't understand this.
Any comment?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #2
  • Oct 29, 2018 7:50pm Oct 29, 2018 7:50pm
Thank you for opening this sensitive topic Justin.

My initial post to this debate is that no one has a portfolio that is 100% in the green. Floating DD is a part of every managers reality.

The OP has stated that he has an absolute dollar stop for his positions, and that a break of the 100 pivot is a fail safe point to eject the position from a generic standpoint. FX Alien does the same thing, but his template is so vexing to many that he does not draw a lot of detractors.

In the Pivot thread, if one does follow along, the OP has been transparent about risk management. I do not see where the scam is.

Quoting heispark
A logical explanation from Veefx: {image} This is from a user: {image} This is from my robot... Looks fantastic? {image} Alas, but the truth is..... {image} Now you know why he cannot quit his shit job...... quite hilarious. It's very easy basics but it seems still so many people don't understand this. Any comment?
I would also like to comment about jobs. I keep my job. I did without it for awhile to trade and found that I had been conditioned to leave the house and do some work around other people who are diverse in background. I was not able to get structure when I was not working. I also found that doing that much sitting is very bad for you. Then there is the health insurance issue, which is very valid. I know many people stuck in jobs just because of the healthcare.

I respect VEE, you, and Davit. I hope we can have a solid discussion about floating DD regardless of where it leads us. New traders do need to know these things, and failure to manage DD does have consequences.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #3
  • Oct 29, 2018 8:14pm Oct 29, 2018 8:14pm
Quoting jmn5611
Thank you for opening this sensitive topic Justin. My initial post to this debate is that no one has a portfolio that is 100% in the green. Floating DD is a part of every managers reality. The OP has stated that he has an absolute dollar stop for his positions, and that a break of the 100 pivot is a fail safe point to eject the position from a generic standpoint. FX Alien does the same thing, but his template is so vexing to many that he does not draw a lot of detractors. In the Pivot thread, if one does follow along, the OP has been transparent...
Hi, Jmn
Yes, I fully understand his strategy and learned many parts of his teaching are valid. Actually, I have adopted some of his strategies including money stop.
Just like many other people pointed out, my point is his statement can be very misleading. It has ZERO value just like my robot's statement. I don't understand why he, an experienced trader, doesn't understand such statement means nothing. That's it.
Regarding the job, as Hanover said before, trading is stressful job and we (or our spouse) may still need a regular job for stable life. I agree. (But if I am making 13K a month, I would quit 'under 3K shit job' anyway.... )
Good feedback anyway. Thanks!
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #4
  • Oct 29, 2018 8:32pm Oct 29, 2018 8:32pm
Quoting heispark
A logical explanation from Veefx: {image} This is from a user: {image} This is from my robot... Looks fantastic? {image} Alas, but the truth is..... {image} Now you know why he cannot quit his shit job...... quite hilarious. It's very easy basics but it seems still so many people don't understand this. Any comment?
I don’t like to have such a great difference between balance & equity! Right now, I completely avoid over-trading & over trading lots size.
  • #5
  • Oct 29, 2018 9:22pm Oct 29, 2018 9:22pm
Quoting heispark
{quote} Hi, Jmn Yes, I fully understand his strategy and learned many parts of his teaching are valid. Actually, I have adopted some of his strategies including money stop. Just like many other people pointed out, my point is his statement can be very misleading. It has ZERO value just like my robot's statement. I don't understand why he, an experienced trader, doesn't understand such statement means nothing. That's it. Regarding the job, as Hanover said before, trading is stressful job and we (or our spouse) may still need...
And herein lies the crux of the discussion. What is value?

For some, value is showing a total profit of 13K. If his floating DD is positive, even by 1 or 2k, that would be value in the eyes of many in EM countries. ( Thanks v2v for giving me the right words to say about countries in the "third world")

For more quant oriented guys like you and VEE, the picture is incomplete. That is a fair statement to make. I suspect that he has pulled enough out of the market to cover for any floating DD issues. But for you guys, you want to see a complete data set. I get it.

I see no reason for Davit to be fraudulent in the way of showing wins in the face of growing DD. He has posted enough trade points for someone to reverse engineer his PNL statements and debunk the system if it were not as advertised. That is my ultimate point.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #6
  • Oct 29, 2018 9:37pm Oct 29, 2018 9:37pm
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} And herein lies the crux of the discussion. What is value? For some, value is showing a total profit of 13K. If his floating DD is positive, even by 1 or 2k, that would be value in the eyes of many in EM countries. ( Thanks v2v for giving me the right words to say about countries in the "third world") For more quant oriented guys like you and VEE, the picture is incomplete. That is a fair statement to make. I suspect that he has pulled enough out of the market to cover for any floating DD issues. But for you guys, you want to see a complete...
Noted. Anyway, please don't get me wrong. I also think/believe he is a profitable trader....
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #7
  • Oct 29, 2018 10:00pm Oct 29, 2018 10:00pm
live TE.
Everything else is either a scam or some kid needs attention.
As Above, So Below
  • #8
  • Edited 10:27pm Oct 29, 2018 10:04pm | Edited 10:27pm
He knows what he is doing.. Needs to stroke his ego from time to time while enslaving more impressionable people. His ego is too big that he can't stop foolishly contradicting himself in the attempt to stroke it. "I don't want to post here again" yet ends up coming back in a week. "I don't want to post my account.." yet ends up publishing a useless statement "to motivate others" lol.

Like you said, the fact that he is always screaming about "more experience" but does not have this pretty common knowledge about statements is "interesting".

For someone like him that is often consumed by proving "detractors" wrong, I am dead certain that if the full picture of his trading was positive enough, he would have a live explorer showing on every corner of this forum.

His trading results might be marginally positive (I now highly doubt this) but he has a lot to hide. Could be hiding lots of accounts crash needing refunding or hiding huge floating losses like the fraudulent social trading people do. He recently contradicted himself as usual and talked about holding a losing trade for almost a year instead of exiting where he asks his sheep to exit so I am certain he has lots of trades gone bad like that. In fact, he could also be hiding the fact that some of these screenshots are from a demo trading account!

If his trading is so good, why isn't he considering external investments? Many social trading or even professional trading companies will stuff you with millions in a month or less if you have 1% drawdown while making 10% a month CONSISTENTLY. Unless of course you made such returns using professionally irresponsible money management methods like opening 30 trades to grab 600 pips on a 20 pips move lol.

I have been in Forex trading in and out since 2008 (even though I really became serious 4 years ago) and I know for sure that in 100% of the time when people are only showing half the picture with statement screenshots like these, THEY ARE HIDING SOME UNCOMFORTABLE TRUTHS.

His usual foot soldiers will be here soon to defend what they don't know as usual
  • #9
  • Oct 29, 2018 10:40pm Oct 29, 2018 10:40pm
The title of this thread is a very important subject for all traders whether they be new or old so thank you for starting it but for the life of me I cannot understand why you have opened it purely to demean another trader who has helped countless other people.

I don't trade Davit's system but I do find both Pivot threads very interesting and read them when I can as I also use pivots but in a different way. It appears to me that Davits thread in particular only welcomes experienced traders and those that are prepared to take it seriously and do the work so I'm pretty sure most of them are way past the "noobie get's sucked in stage". From what I read there are dozens of his thread followers doing well and posting successful trades and I'm sure many of them have enough experience to look after themselves and do what's in their own best interest.

Why have there been so many attacks by so many people on Davit? Did I miss something? Is he selling a black box for a few grand and I've missed the ad's for it? I don't understand what motive Davit would have if he's not selling anything, to lie or cheat? In one way I've found trading to be a bit like golf which I used to play off single figures, if you cheat at golf there is only one person that you are cheating and kidding and that is you and ultimately your bubble will burst. There is no long term value in lying or cheating, it's very short lived.

If anyone does not trade a particular system offered on a FF thread I've also no idea what their motivation would be to castigate a thread owner for posting results? I just don't get it and especially when EVERYTHING you need to know is on page 1 of the thread. Davit categorically states that he has a $$$ stop amount but if PA breaks through S&R100 then price is being driven by fundies and it's pretty much time to get out. I don't see what is ambiguous about that.

Some see Davit as arrogant and I know that has pissed some people off. I don't see him as arrogant at all, as someone that has sat on my ass here for thousands of hours over the last 4.5 years developing my system, getting my head straight and looking at charts I totally understand why he runs a very strict thread. There are way, way too many people on the Forex Factory that think financial markets are a get rich quick scheme. Others think they can get rich off the backs of others that have done the work which also doesn't cut it. I don't blame him one little bit for his attitude towards laziness, apathy and stupidity, it's a message, do the work or fail and then come back when it's completed.

What's happened to horses for courses? Just chillax and let's all do our own thing, if you think something is BS, just move on and don't trade that system, find something that you think suits, simple really.
Ardua Ad Astra Per
  • #10
  • Oct 29, 2018 10:53pm Oct 29, 2018 10:53pm
Quoting tashkent
live TE. Everything else is either a scam or some kid needs attention.
In your opinion how much of trading, percentage wise, is system and psychology?
Ardua Ad Astra Per
  • #11
  • Oct 29, 2018 11:04pm Oct 29, 2018 11:04pm
Quoting mistakesr
The title of this thread is a very important subject for all traders whether they be new or old so thank you for starting it but for the life of me I cannot understand why you have opened it purely to demean another trader who has helped countless other people. I don't trade Davit's system but I do find both Pivot threads very interesting and read them when I can as I also use pivots but in a different way. It appears to me that Davits thread in particular only welcomes experienced traders and those that are prepared to take it seriously and do...
Nobody gives a fudge about his "strategy" or how he runs his thread. The discussion here is the statement screenshots. Why does he do something like that seeing how useless and misleading it is?

Why is it hard for you people to adress any issues that are raised against your master? Why does it have to always end in how the world is attacking him, how his strategy works for people that understand it bla bla..? Address the issue. Lol.
  • #12
  • Oct 29, 2018 11:27pm Oct 29, 2018 11:27pm
Quoting Chenko
{quote} Nobody gives a fudge about his "strategy" or how he runs his thread. The discussion here is the statement screenshots. Why does he do something like that seeing how useless and misleading it is? Why is it hard for you people to adress any issues that are raised against your master? Why does it have to always end in how the world is attacking him, how his strategy works for people that understand it bla bla..? Address the issue. Lol.
Firstly, no one is my master, I come here for shits and giggles when nothing is on the radar and to hear what a few people I respect have to say, the calendar is way by far the best aspect of this website.

If you don't trade his system why would it concern you what he does or when he does it? How are Davits posts, comments and actions going to affect you?
Ardua Ad Astra Per
  • #13
  • Oct 29, 2018 11:38pm Oct 29, 2018 11:38pm
Quoting mistakesr
{quote} Firstly, no one is my master, I come here for shits and giggles when nothing is on the radar and to hear what a few people I respect have to say, the calendar is way by far the best aspect of this website. If you don't trade his system why would it concern you what he does or when he does it? How are Davits posts, comments and actions going to affect you?
So you are not going to address the issue then.. Typical.

Anyways I just got tired of laughing at the bullshit in the background. I hate noise making and grandstanding without substance..

On a second thought I think it is probably best if he is ignored and allowed to keep building new sets of sheep as the older ones die off. Need to keep that supply of losing traders going in this zero sum game haha.
  • #14
  • Oct 30, 2018 12:34am Oct 30, 2018 12:34am
Quoting Chenko
{quote} So you are not going to address the issue then.. Typical. Anyways I just got tired of laughing at the bullshit in the background. I hate noise making and grandstanding without substance.. On a second thought I think it is probably best if he is ignored and allowed to keep building new sets of sheep as the older ones die off. Need to keep that supply of losing traders going in this zero sum game haha.
There are no issues to address, the actions, comments, analysis or anything else offered by Davit has no affect on my life whatsoever unless I want it to. I'm not sure why you think differently and then feel the need to comment on his legitimacy. The need to do that probably tells me more about you than it does Davit but never mind, I wish you the best of luck.
Ardua Ad Astra Per
  • #15
  • Oct 30, 2018 8:37am Oct 30, 2018 8:37am
Quoting mistakesr
{quote} In your opinion how much of trading, percentage wise, is system and psychology?
I am afraid my answer will not satisfy you because my understanding of things is a lot different than conventional approach.
I think, if one has a system, it must also include that trader's psychological attributes, so I do not consider them 2 separate things, rather one being a part of the other. System should not be understood just as a collection of entry/exit and analytical strategies, it should also include your expectations, your financial limits or potentials, characteristic strengths, weaknesses, habits, lifestyle etc.
Therefore, I always disagree when traders try to adapt other people's systems and completely disagree when someone just posts a screenshot of graph and tells others they also can achieve that result by following his system. That kind of statements, if you understood my notion of the word "system", makes no sense and it is logically flawed.
As Above, So Below
  • #16
  • Oct 30, 2018 9:25am Oct 30, 2018 9:25am
If you your screenshots were taken right where it says 'Summary' in the detailed ststement, then we would see all the missing info such as deposit amount and balance and unrealized profit. So yes, everybody, full screenshot is preferred.
  • #17
  • Edited 11:01pm Oct 30, 2018 10:20pm | Edited 11:01pm
Quoting mistakesr
{quote} There are no issues to address, the actions, comments, analysis or anything else offered by Davit has no affect on my life whatsoever unless I want it to. I'm not sure why you think differently and then feel the need to comment on his legitimacy. The need to do that probably tells me more about you than it does Davit but never mind, I wish you the best of luck.
...and here lies the clue as to why people react the way they do.

I am considered one of the "masters sheep" for these folks. I have my valid point yet because it is one that defends the system that has worked for me since I found it in 2016 it won't mean a thing for them and will be attacked because of highlighted fact.

You see I can care less what he posts or not, I have seen a zillion sites asking for $200 to $5000 dollars for their system and none show a damn thing beforehand other than well picked successful trades. But you see when I came to his thread I was looking for a profitable system. I didn't go in looking for faults or reasons why this person should heed to my demands. I went in looking for something and I found it. Along the way, were there nuisances and issues? Absolutely. Nothing is 100% and surely no trading system including his. For me no system is the edge...I am the edge! Every system out there is nothing, we put them to work; therefore, we make them work. So it is us as a person, with a system of high probability, that is the edge . And part of his system, which is throughout the thread, is on working on the psychological side of trading...on us.

On the issue of DD and floating loss...I get them on some pairs and sometimes huge DD, some pairs I hit the button and straight to profit with minimal DD. I don't blame the system or make demands I just know that I trade better on certain pairs and some I just can't no matter what I try.

For me DD is:
1. Ever present! To trade is to be in DD, if I trade I am first and foremost in DD. The moment I hit the button I am automatically in DD so to complain about it makes absolutely no sense and is futile to try and fight it.

For me DD is not:
2. ...A loss! It is not a loss unless I close it. If analysis was correct it will eventually work out, if not then my analysis was wrong or Market showed me who is boss and so what if that is the case, if I cannot manage it then I should not be trading because it is ever present. If one studied the system well you would find that there is a way to trade around the DD and I have done so all the time profitably.

So maybe focus on the printouts, missing info or everyone's unanswered whims and demands...or just take what works and leave the [email protected] one can answer why he does or does not do certain things except himself. And if he does not desire to do so then move on.

Take it in the chin and become a better person for it...dedicate your life to proving yourself right rather than trying to prove someone else wrong.
Invest in Life
  • #18
  • Oct 30, 2018 11:36pm Oct 30, 2018 11:36pm
This is the whole point Mundo, excellent post by the way. I don't see people who trade Davit's system properly complaining, I only see people who don't trade the system at all demeaning Davit. It's very strange and I've no idea what the motivation is for them to be doing that.
Ardua Ad Astra Per
  • #19
  • Oct 31, 2018 4:32am Oct 31, 2018 4:32am
Wow we got a whole thread about me by one of the asswipes who has been on my ignore list for long time.
The guy never understood my system still does not but does not stop this idiot taking swings at me and starts a thread which obviously motivated by envy and jealously.Dude we are on different levels in life,trading and everything else you will never get it.I seriously dislike stupid.

For others

All you have to do click on images and look at EVERY closed trade this month which I posted and you'll get an idea if its real or by a robot
If you insist to see full disclosure then I'll say if you pay my taxes then I will.

By OP the Simpleton
Quoting heispark
{quote} Recently i adopted 3 period + shifted 3 SMA which came from Joe Dinapoli. It should be similar. People use all sort of MAs, and i think that's kinda curve fitting. Instrad, i would like to stick to a couple of most common MAs and train my brain and eyes. I like stretched markets (overbought/oversold) as (i believe) it gives less whipsaws and bigger engergy when they move. Side ways, boring markets are what i want to avoid. Fibonacci WK/MN pivot and currency strength meters (i prefer world currency units introduced by Neils) can be used for this purpose. When i cut the loss properly (i use 1M or 5M 200 EMA for this purpose), it won't harm my account. When it goes against me, it can move wildly (as it hunts Stops. It can happen several times before it finally moves back to my direction). However, to make things simple, i don't reverse my trade. Instead, i would like to catch next oppotunity in the same direction. I believe buying at cheap price is an edge. It's not Davit's system anyway. There are many differencies. Although, I don't like his characteristics (bad temper, dirty mouth ), i still find some values in his strategy and teaching. His strategy has both strengths and weaknesses just like any other systems (including TMS). Anyway, it's obvious that's not for me (and I seriously doubt any others people can successfully follow it because it's hardcore judgmental system which heavily rely on 'intuition')..... yes, yes, I can be wrong and shit head as he called me...
Shows the level of this guy's understanding what I do which is zero.Nothing I do is "intuitive" is all based on fundamentals and technical in fact I am the only trader that I know so far on system thread who goes great lengths combing through every news event and incorporating it with technicals

I find this whole thread comical
In trading, you have to be defensive and aggressive at the same time
  • #20
  • Oct 31, 2018 5:13am Oct 31, 2018 5:13am
Quoting Davit
Wow we got a whole thread about me by one of the asswipes who has been on my ignore list for long time. The guy never understood my system still does not but does not stop this idiot taking swings at me and starts a thread which obviously motivated by envy and jealously.Dude we are on different levels in life,trading and everything else you will never get it.I seriously dislike stupid. For others All you have to do click on images and look at EVERY closed trade this month which I posted and you'll get an idea if its real or by a robot...
Thank you Ruben, I am flattered....
By the way, glad to see you reopened your thread... I visit it often although I don't have write permission....
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
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