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Plan the Trade

  • #8,301
  • Oct 19, 2018 12:38pm Oct 19, 2018 12:38pm
lousy day for sure....

In hindsight, TP could have been a big run today :-(
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Staying in my lane...
  • #8,302
  • Oct 19, 2018 12:42pm Oct 19, 2018 12:42pm
Quoting bapakjason
{quote} Thats some serious discipline H.
Living proof that discipline is his EDGE. How many can call it a day regardless of the daily pnl outcome. Personally, I get pissed of wasting an hour and get nothing out of it so a tweak in mindset towards "let's trade one day at a time" is required and allow the math to to grow the account slow and steadily.
Staying in my lane...
  • #8,303
  • Oct 19, 2018 12:44pm Oct 19, 2018 12:44pm
This bascially the 123 with the dow.. simple enough(1min chart)
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It's in fear when people show what they truly value.
  • #8,304
  • Oct 19, 2018 12:51pm Oct 19, 2018 12:51pm
Quoting ensale
This bascially the 123 with the dow.. simple enough(1min chart){image}
Nice setup
  • #8,305
  • Oct 19, 2018 12:52pm Oct 19, 2018 12:52pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Living proof that discipline is his EDGE. How many can call it a day regardless of the daily pnl outcome. Personally, I get pissed of wasting an hour and get nothing out of it so a tweak in mindset towards "let's trade one day at a time" is required and allow the math to to grow the account slow and steadily.
If there no setups I ain't trading so made about 2500 dollars this week that pays the bills
  • #8,306
  • Oct 19, 2018 2:12pm Oct 19, 2018 2:12pm
Quoting Divergence
{quote} If there no setups I ain't trading so made about 2500 dollars this week that pays the bills
When I resume live, I am submitting ACH to withdraw my daily profits to get in the discipline. It's hard to change the mindset from something you are used to doing for so long. Combination of this and platform based "endofday Flatten" feature is required to slap my trigger-happy fingers :-(
Staying in my lane...
  • #8,307
  • Oct 19, 2018 11:19pm Oct 19, 2018 11:19pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Living proof that discipline is his EDGE. How many can call it a day regardless of the daily pnl outcome. Personally, I get pissed of wasting an hour and get nothing out of it so a tweak in mindset towards "let's trade one day at a time" is required and allow the math to to grow the account slow and steadily.
i pretty much have that discipline problem. I get into cycle of gaining 100-150% gain then lose 50% from time to time (like today). I've seen this over and over again, even in my forex days. I don't know if it's age related me being in my 30s or i have too much ego, testosterone or whatever the hell it is, but I get on tilt sometimes.

It makes so much sense to say-you need to just have 500-1k a day. We all know this lol, but my god, it's annoying when i lose, ESPECIALLY when I make a mistake or missed a setup.

trading will definitely bring out the demons in you that you have to deal with. Hopefuly i'll get my equity swings under control.
  • #8,308
  • Oct 20, 2018 2:07am Oct 20, 2018 2:07am
Quoting hilmy83
{quote} i pretty much have that discipline problem. I get into cycle of gaining 100-150% gain then lose 50% from time to time (like today). I've seen this over and over again, even in my forex days. I don't know if it's age related me being in my 30s or i have too much ego, testosterone or whatever the hell it is, but I get on tilt sometimes. It makes so much sense to say-you need to just have 500-1k a day. We all know this lol, but my god, it's annoying when i lose, ESPECIALLY when I make a mistake or missed a setup. trading will definitely bring...
Sorry about your loss. I have given up 300-400% at times on a good week. Not proud of it at all and it stings like a bee went up your ***. In the heat of the moment, we get carried away to squeezing a good run to win ourselves finally some bragging rights only to see it all disappear in the end. I would not go the route of trading with someone to manage your risk. All of us come with some mental baggage lol

Here's several options that I am considering:

  1. Time Stop - absolutely critical. Just one hour per session is more than enough. Quantify your rules in numbers and not in if-then-else. 3 trades, 2 consecutive SLs and I am done, 1 TP and I am done, $xxx and I am done etc
  2. Max open position stays fixed during the session.... never ever break this rule during an active session. There is a MAX position allowed lock in Sierra. I am going to use it. All such decisions must be made when market is closed
  3. In Sierra, there is a platform lock feature tied to profit and loss.
  4. This one is important if you really cannot control your aggression. Move your capital out from your account. Sign up with Fidelity Cash Mgmt account or platinum package with major banks. Fidelity is great as they have no minimum balance (in cash account) and offer free and unlimited inbound and outbound wire transfers both domestic and international. Wire can reach in few hours if done in early AM hours.
  5. Alternative to #4, open sub-accounts with your broker and park your capital in a sub-account and play with only $2000 per contract. If you get margin call, let it hurt you by paying $25/contract fine or whatever that is. A little sting can go a long way into making good habit of always keeping an eye out on available margin or buying power. It should enforce discipline.
  6. Now, about sub-accounts. This is what I found. Your data feed is tied to a single account. This is required by regulation I am told. You also cannot share your data feed or platform login with anyone else or compliance will catch you and terminate your access. If you get margin call (in a small sub-account), they will terminate your data feed as well. Know that margin call in a small sub-account will guarantee negative balance as auto-liquidation is set at 80% and if you are trading 100+ contracts, costs will PILE UP very quickly without even knowing. Auto-liquidation means data feed disabled requiring you to contact support and waiting for compliance review until 7am next day.... probably a good way to force a "pause" but your broker won't like this shitty behavior.
  7. Finally, read up on all the compliance and auditing requirements enforced on SGOs here. I found it today via google so not sure how relevant it is but it's a fine read to understand how clearinghouse function and manage their risks with FCMs. If you get in a hot seat with compliance, you are screwed by a forced termination of your account. Your actions and trading behavior does matter to your FCM in managing their intraday risk. WE all have signed giving them right to auto-liquidate positions if their internal risk controls are triggered out of no fault of ours. Devil is always hidden in the details :-)
  8. Margin and risk controls are PER Account... it does not matter if you have a million dollars in another sub-account. Each sub-account linked or not has it own compliance and risk parameters. There is a reason why they require one data feed subscription per account.
  9. I wish we could see your livestream to learn and understand what happened. there is no way to market replay your trades or restore/rerecord your recording into a MP4 format?
  10. Think about the worst case scenerio? did you put your principal capital at risk? what would have happened if you lost connectivity etc. Knowing all the shit that can go down, it makes absolute sense to trade the way Harold does.... baby steps, grow at snail pace and let the match work for us. It's hard for the impatient types like me who is always thinking.... "what did I gain by staring the screen for an hour!"
  11. You are facing challenges like me. Finding a good fixed/constant time to block for trading. With work and life balance, it is very easy to get distracted and go in the mode of "Okay Market, I am here. Let's see how much you can give me today". Coming to the market geared up with a fixed time window absolutely should help with the discipline and rigor. I have traded countless times while distracted with work related activities. I am monitored open trades while driving etc. I have done more stupid shit in trading life that I can count with 10 fingers and toes! If you stay on this path, like me, you will remain a breakeven trader for many more years. It took me 5 freakishly long years to breakeven so take a pause bro and protect your capital !
  12. Disclaimer: I am no saint in controlling my aggression when I get a good run... only to give it all away. My first week in futures and I was touching almost 3x my initial deposit only to end up with a loss! This habit is just hard to break and equally crucial to fix asap. It will not work in futures because of minimum tick size.

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Staying in my lane...
  • #8,309
  • Oct 20, 2018 3:34am Oct 20, 2018 3:34am
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Sorry about your loss. I have given up 300-400% at times on a good week. Not proud of it at all and it stings like a bee went up your ***. In the heat of the moment, we get carried away to squeezing a good run to win ourselves finally some bragging rights only to see it all disappear in the end. I would not go the route of trading with someone to manage your risk. All of us come with some mental baggage lol Here's several options that I am considering: Time Stop - absolutely critical. Just one hour per session is more than enough. Quantify...
i have no problem with losses per rules.

BUT

when i get into losses, then miss good trades afterwards, that triggers my tilt.

i can remember from today that i missed a good short at 11amCST at 7178 after initilal false breakout. because i missed the short, i increased my trading size to "make up the missed opportunity" by shorting lower. that didnt' work out cuase of retracements stopping me out few times. and i added more shit upon more shit. i basicaly tried that again and again shorting at 7120..but the fucker wont break. so that was the tilt.
  • #8,310
  • Oct 20, 2018 12:16pm Oct 20, 2018 12:16pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Sorry about your loss. I have given up 300-400% at times on a good week. Not proud of it at all and it stings like a bee went up your ***. In the heat of the moment, we get carried away to squeezing a good run to win ourselves finally some bragging rights only to see it all disappear in the end. I would not go the route of trading with someone to manage your risk. All of us come with some mental baggage lol Here's several options that I am considering: Time Stop - absolutely critical. Just one hour per session is more than enough. Quantify...
In 1985 I went to Atlantic city for the purpose of making 1000 dollars at the casino. I was up 1500 playing black jack and decided if my winnings dwindle to 1100 dollars I'd stop which it did goal met. On the way home I was not satisfied if I was on the 50 or 100 dollar table how much more I would have made at this time I had a epiphany there was no number I could have made to satisfy me that gambling was not a means to an end but an endless pursuit of never satisfying myself that I stopped gambling to this day. Wait isn't trading gambling? Yes but in a total different way than looking for a hard 8 or a 10 to fill and inside straight. Though there is skill in both of those games most of its by chance. Trading is all skill with risk. One needs to lose the gambling mindset to the invester for income mindset. Fish when their biting the best catch your limit and then have a bar b que
  • #8,311
  • Oct 20, 2018 2:16pm Oct 20, 2018 2:16pm
Quoting Divergence
{quote} In 1985 I went to Atlantic city for the purpose of making 1000 dollars at the casino. I was up 1500 playing black jack and decided if my winnings dwindle to 1100 dollars I'd stop which it did goal met. On the way home I was not satisfied if I was on the 50 or 100 dollar table how much more I would have made at this time I had a epiphany there was no number I could have made to satisfy me that gambling was not a means to an end but an endless pursuit of never satisfying myself that I stopped gambling to this day. Wait isn't trading gambling?...
Agree chief. I have never played card games or gambled in casino. The max I have spent is 4-8 quarters in a slot machine per trip to either Vegas or Reno. I did splurge a little in Monaco back in the late 90s (some 100 francs).
Staying in my lane...
  • #8,312
  • Oct 20, 2018 2:29pm Oct 20, 2018 2:29pm
So VEE if I asked why do you trade the answer would be to make money and that's correct. How much iis much? Is it as much as I can well what number is that. If you set no goals you reach no goals and you give back a wad of your earnings. See where I am going with this
  • #8,313
  • Oct 20, 2018 5:11pm Oct 20, 2018 5:11pm
Quoting Divergence
So VEE if I asked why do you trade the answer would be to make money and that's correct. How much iis much? Is it as much as I can well what number is that. If you set no goals you reach no goals and you give back a wad of your earnings. See where I am going with this
I am absolutely getting there to set my MM goals. I am in it to win it. How much is what my stats from market replay and live will tell me. I am replaying the market all of this week and that will continue for several months in parallel of live.

I will be shooting for a + day everyday or stop trading at 3 - 5 consecutive loss (3 if RR=3 and 5 if RR=5).

#4 @ 50T=$1K/day is doable on an average after a year or so. For now, I am leaning towards one contract/$2K to start the week and then add 1 contract after every net positive week ending in $500+.
4*50T@50 weeks = $170K after costs

If I get two consecutive wins (100T) then 50% would go towards risk capital to trade one more hour (NY Session based on my work schedule but most likely 11-noon CT would work on most days). I will avoid Asian and London.... only frankfurt one hour of TOK/EUR overlap. I will publish my trading/MM/RM plan plus my daily log to keep me on track and for you to slap me if I deter without advance notice !
Staying in my lane...
  • #8,314
  • Oct 20, 2018 5:22pm Oct 20, 2018 5:22pm
Vee if your goal will be 1000 dollars a day that you build to then look for 25 twice for your 50 a day then increase lot size accordingly is a good plan
  • #8,315
  • Oct 20, 2018 5:58pm Oct 20, 2018 5:58pm
Quoting Divergence
Vee if your goal will be 1000 dollars a day that you build to then look for 25 twice for your 50 a day then increase lot size accordingly is a good plan
Yep.... research continues what is feasible and easily doable within the hour. In Sierra, you can completely block off every candle except your trading window... which is sweet. Just pick a setup and do a market replay, formalize a robust strategy and bingo !

Just eyeballing tells me 50 pips is a very reasonable target to achieve.

EDIT: I use the HHLL indicator that comes with Sierra. Yellow is outside Bar and the original candle color (occasional red or blue) are inside bars. Get direction from the first 5 mins and use the first 5 mins as reference to trade in that direction of wherever the trend takes us.
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Staying in my lane...
  • #8,316
  • Edited 10:44am Oct 21, 2018 10:31am | Edited 10:44am
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} I am absolutely getting there to set my MM goals. I am in it to win it. How much is what my stats from market replay and live will tell me. I am replaying the market all of this week and that will continue for several months in parallel of live. I will be shooting for a + day everyday or stop trading at 3 - 5 consecutive loss (3 if RR=3 and 5 if RR=5). #4 @ 50T=$1K/day is doable on an average after a year or so. For now, I am leaning towards one contract/$2K to start the week and then add 1 contract after every net positive week ending in...
man we're pretty much on the same boat. full time jobs with trading. lets make double income reality!
  • #8,317
  • Oct 21, 2018 11:07am Oct 21, 2018 11:07am
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} I am absolutely getting there to set my MM goals. I am in it to win it. How much is what my stats from market replay and live will tell me. I am replaying the market all of this week and that will continue for several months in parallel of live. I will be shooting for a + day everyday or stop trading at 3 - 5 consecutive loss (3 if RR=3 and 5 if RR=5). #4 @ 50T=$1K/day is doable on an average after a year or so. For now, I am leaning towards one contract/$2K to start the week and then add 1 contract after every net positive week ending in...

Sounds like a good plan. Where are you going to place your stops? The reason I am asking is that to achieve your RR of 3-5 with a 50 tick target you will be looking for a 10-17 tick stop. Not saying you can't do that, just saying that as volatile as the market is right now that may be tough during the US session. If you can get by with that tight of a stop... high five from me. LOL!
  • #8,318
  • Edited 2:12pm Oct 21, 2018 12:03pm | Edited 2:12pm
Quoting hilmy83
{quote} man we're pretty much on the same boat. full time jobs with trading. lets make double income reality!
Absolutely bro. This is "Operation Freedom" for me. In 3 yrs, I want to be 100% free from debt and payroll-income. With one year of consistency, I am going ALL IN to scale up. My strategy has to support at least 10 contracts per trade ...preferably 20 during the first hour.
Staying in my lane...
  • #8,319
  • Edited 5:31pm Oct 21, 2018 12:11pm | Edited 5:31pm
Quoting magnumfreak
{quote} Sounds like a good plan. Where are you going to place your stops? The reason I am asking is that to achieve your RR of 3-5 with a 50 tick target you will be looking for a 10-17 tick stop. Not saying you can't do that, just saying that as volatile as the market is right now that may be tough during the US session. If you can get by with that tight of a stop... high five from me. LOL!
I did four hour of market replay last night using one second speed per 5-second candle using the December contract. Tight stops is possible but I am most likely going with no stops to trade breakouts. Almost all my entries with 10TP were taken out with stops on the other side of the range. So if RR can be ignored, ending the day positive is a reality but takes a lot of rigor to get out quickly and fiercely if price moves against me. I was playing around with varies move SL to be settings and something is now messed up. Every trade is becoming a BE trade so got to fix that today....but research and analytics continues to tame this beast. Even if I make a 1000T a week with occasional 200T hit, it could be worthwhile to explore.

Edit- by no stop, I mean no tight stops. There will always be catastrophic stops.

EDIT1: I think I might have a stress-free way to trade the first hour with "catastrophic loss" set at 1RR and daily target of 100Ticks.... testing continues.
Staying in my lane...
  • #8,320
  • Oct 21, 2018 6:05pm Oct 21, 2018 6:05pm
Hoping everyone has a major green week. Markets are already showing that volatility is still there. Besides the gap down at open, there have already been two 80 tick moves in the first hour. If last week was bad for you, put it behind you and look forward to this weeks challenges.

Wishing you all the best going forward.
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