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Plan the Trade

  • #8,121
  • Oct 12, 2018 2:19pm Oct 12, 2018 2:19pm
Friday's for me are grab and go. I target 80 ticks but if I have a profitable trade that doesn't quite make it I will still stop for the day. No need to push it on Fridays since they can be fun or frightening in my opinion. I only take what I consider to be premium set ups on Fridays. Took a little while for one to show up but once it did it only took about 10 minutes to hit my target.

While I don't trade exactly like you guys do there are several similarities. Mostly looking for pullbacks on trends but I use moving averages to help visualize and quantify the pullback. If it doesn't pull back enough to get to one of the moving averages then it doesn't qualify. The MA's aren't necessary they just help an old fart like me see what is going on. LOL!

I don't like time based charts for NQ, I much prefer tick based. The 1000 and 2000 tick charts really show the price movement better than time based in my opinion.

Hope everyone has a great weekend. Looking forward to next week already.
  • #8,122
  • Oct 12, 2018 2:27pm Oct 12, 2018 2:27pm
I use to trade with tick charts and found I can locate s and d a little easier. Bottom line pullback trading imop is the best route to consistent profits
  • #8,123
  • Oct 12, 2018 2:29pm Oct 12, 2018 2:29pm
Quoting Divergence
just got home from my procedure there were 3 beautiful setups in 15 minute time span since candles still to big to cut in half find high and drop down 12 ticks for entry {image}
Remind me of your rule for how you select where to place your orders on the wicks?
So many in the Commercial section want to make me rich! :o
  • #8,124
  • Oct 12, 2018 2:34pm Oct 12, 2018 2:34pm
Quoting Divergence
Everything starts for me at 935 i let the first 5 minutes go to let the market shake out and then start looking for pullbacks nothing fancy grab 25 here 10 to 25 there and shut it down and already recovered colonoscopy screening yuch
Thanks and yikes for trading after your screening lol
I stopped seeing my primary physician in 2011 when he stopped practicing and went into research. I am glad I stopped... haven't been more happier than worrying about routine blood tests and cardiograms every year. You complain about one minor thing and they will recommend 10 tests and quickly put you on life long medication. I have high chollestrol and stopped that medication also. Don't give a fu*k about it as I could hit by a truck any day! My wife also stopped running routine tests for over 4-5 yrs. It's just me I guess but I don't see the fascination behind early detection. If I have cancer, I only want to know after the first symptoms. Regardless, life turns shit after we know so why know sooner and pay your life savings into medical bills? I have life insurance, disability insurance, critical illness care insurance and long term care insurance for a reason and all offered by my company for pennies :-)
Staying in my lane...
  • #8,125
  • Oct 12, 2018 2:39pm Oct 12, 2018 2:39pm
I only go to Dr when not feeling well. This was a physical and it is all free with my health insurance after 183 dollar deductible. I did cologuard first and it came back positive hence the colonoscopy I also don't due medicine
  • #8,126
  • Oct 12, 2018 2:44pm Oct 12, 2018 2:44pm
Quoting theunis
{quote} With all due respect, Mr D .... the ease with which you make ticks makes me want to cry in my hands .... eish. Yes, I know .... I know ... it is experience ... you just make it look so easy.
this method is 90% discretionary. just be prepared to spend the 10 years looking at charts the way H has. if you disagree, look at how many people have been on this thread for a very long time and still struggle. or watch the live vids of how he places a trade then cancels. canceling orders is discretionary.

No disrespect whatsoever to you H, I just think a lot of people don't realize that.
  • #8,127
  • Oct 12, 2018 2:45pm Oct 12, 2018 2:45pm
Quoting Divergence
I only go to Dr when not feeling well. This was a physical and it is all free with my health insurance after 183 dollar deductible. I did cologuard first and it came back positive hence the colonoscopy I also don't due medicine
Yep. Like an idiot, i was signing up for $0 copay/deductible platinum health care plans for over 15+ years when we did not need it (I was just too scared with wife, pregnancy/young kids etc)... since past 3-4 yrs, I am on bronze high deductible plan and saved up some decent $15K in my HSA account towards retirement/medicare related expenses. Just like trading industry, healthcare industry is also designed for too many mouths to feed off your hard earned income :-

EDIT- Ouch... Lost all my YTD profits in my 401K account this week :-(
Attached Image
Staying in my lane...
  • #8,128
  • Oct 12, 2018 2:52pm Oct 12, 2018 2:52pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Yep. Like an idiot, i was signing up for $0 copay/deductible platinum health care plans for over 15+ years when we did not need it (I was just too scared with wife, pregnancy/young kids etc)... since past 3-4 yrs, I am on bronze high deductible plan and saved up some decent $15K in my HSA account towards retirement/medicare related expenses. Just like trading industry, healthcare industry is also designed for too many mouths to feed off your hard earned income :- EDIT- Ouch... Lost all my YTD profits in my 401K account this week :-( {image}...
ouch I have plan g via medicare it's only 98 bucks and I get 100% coverage it's a sweet deal. Haven't had any issues so I am due
  • #8,129
  • Oct 12, 2018 2:57pm Oct 12, 2018 2:57pm
Quoting magnumfreak
Friday's for me are grab and go. I target 80 ticks but if I have a profitable trade that doesn't quite make it I will still stop for the day. No need to push it on Fridays since they can be fun or frightening in my opinion. I only take what I consider to be premium set ups on Fridays. Took a little while for one to show up but once it did it only took about 10 minutes to hit my target. While I don't trade exactly like you guys do there are several similarities. Mostly looking for pullbacks on trends but I use moving averages to help visualize and...
I moved to futures to look into tick and volume as a tool to build a long lasting edge that just does not exist in spot fx. So far, from what I know, I am a little disappointed with the current market structure of brokers, datafeed providers and the platforms offered. There "can be" tremendous conflict of interest here in Futures also... just to say it. I need to investigate deeper into the data feeds to come to any firm conclusion but still far superior model than spotfx. Looking at fees in daily statement, there are far too many "middlemen" chomping away from our accounts in the name of transparency and regulated market lol

Of all the videos I have come across on futures trading (most of them from very well known traders), they ALL use Tick charts. What I don't get is, why some use 400, 513, 600, 100, 1600, 3200 etc.... why is so special behind these number of ticks AND are these number of trades or # of contracts (volume) or Volume at bid/ask (in your setup)... and the many different possibilities that exists in Ninja/Sierra/TOS type advanced charting packages.
Staying in my lane...
  • #8,130
  • Oct 12, 2018 2:59pm Oct 12, 2018 2:59pm
Quoting Divergence
{quote}ouch I have plan g via medicare it's only 98 bucks and I get 100% coverage it's a sweet deal. Haven't had any issues so I am due
nice... and I pay over $1900/yr for the cheapest bronze health plan offered by my company :-(
Staying in my lane...
  • #8,131
  • Oct 12, 2018 3:19pm Oct 12, 2018 3:19pm
1900 a yr for family ain't bad if there's no more out of pocket
  • #8,132
  • Oct 12, 2018 3:32pm Oct 12, 2018 3:32pm
So today i tried the NQ. Got slaughtered with with a 1 lot. Demo of course. -25%

I tried from the 1 min since that's the lowest periodicity i have to trade from the web atm.

NQ is fast. Much faster than the E6. Also seems as of late volatility has risen and made it faster. So maybe now's not a good time to try with 1 min charts that have quite a few 20 point bars.
  • #8,133
  • Oct 12, 2018 3:38pm Oct 12, 2018 3:38pm
Quoting Divergence
1900 a yr for family ain't bad if there's no more out of pocket
plus $3k individual and $6K family deductive and co-insurance...they all come with lots of restrictions. Overall, it's about $2K or so out of pocket per year on average. Still not bad compared to over $15K/year I was paying for $0 out of pocket costs with platinum plan
Staying in my lane...
  • #8,134
  • Oct 12, 2018 3:43pm Oct 12, 2018 3:43pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} I moved to futures to look into tick and volume as a tool to build a long lasting edge that just does not exist in spot fx. So far, from what I know, I am a little disappointed with the current market structure of brokers, datafeed providers and the platforms offered. There "can be" tremendous conflict of interest here in Futures also... just to say it. I need to investigate deeper into the data feeds to come to any firm conclusion but still far superior model than spotfx. Looking at fees in daily statement, there are far too many "middlemen"...
I actually know people who trade with an 89 tick chart. If you want to see a chart fly, try the 89 tick chart at market open. LOL! A blur of candles. Too fast for my taste.

The number of ticks people use is mostly personal preference. The same reason some will pick a 15 minute chart over a 1 minute chart. To me the 1000 tick chart is a good mix of seeing the details but not so fast as to not be able to react to them. Pre-market candles form about every 5 or so minutes and when the market opens it's around 20-60 seconds sometimes faster sometimes slower. I like tick charts mostly because a candle won't form unless something is happening. With time based charts a candle will finish regardless of what is going on. Just like most things related to trading it just comes down to personal preference.

A tick in futures is a transaction regardless of volume. So lets say person one buys 1 contract at 7095 and person 2 buys 5 contracts at 7095 (assuming it went through all at once). This would be 6 contracts of volume but only 2 ticks of transactions. If the 5 contracts got filled at 2 and 3 contracts then it would still be 6 contracts of volume total and 3 ticks of transactions.

As far as data and fees goes: I use NinjaTrader and use them as my broker (they are just an IB for Philip Capital and Dorman). I pay 1.83 per contract (total) each way for NQ. So essentially it only takes a tick to more than make up for the cost of the transaction even when you consider that it takes 1.83 to open and 1.83 to close the trade. Data fees are cheap at just 27 bucks a month for basically all of what the CME offers. The futures I am interested in are all included in that fee. CL, 6E, NQ, ES, etc. The daily activity reports from Philip Capital do not include times just dates. As long as the numbers match I have no problem with that. I haven't had any issues with my reports from Ninjatrader matching the reports they send out as far as money and price is concerned. Withdrawals take about 24 hours to hit the bank. I have never had any issues with orders getting filled or closed. Overall I am happy with the set up and how things have gone since July when I started trading Futures.
  • #8,135
  • Oct 12, 2018 3:48pm Oct 12, 2018 3:48pm
Quoting LookinGood
So today i tried the NQ. Got slaughtered with with a 1 lot. Demo of course. -25% I tried from the 1 min since that's the lowest periodicity i have to trade from the web atm. NQ is fast. Much faster than the E6. Also seems as of late volatility has risen and made it faster. So maybe now's not a good time to try with 1 min charts that have quite a few 20 point bars.
It has been the worst week for anyone to try futures (like me). I lost all my profits (which was huge!) and ended the week negative with some 15%. It was just too much to handle, learning about NQ and figuring out the clunkiness with Sierra and CQG platforms. I am just glad this week is over. I will be back to demo for a while until I gain a full and thorough understanding of her behavior. This is a long haul imo and many will get slaughtered along the way until they are comfortable with something that yields consistency. Now, I will admit! I was making 10-15 consecutive wins with 10ticks TP and 50T protective stop(but manually exiting rapidly and quickly). This suits my style personally and it could for others.. .with discipline. 8T SL is just crazy in this volatile market.

So try this in demo and see if it makes any difference.
Trade1: 1Reward, 3Risk
Trade1 in loss - done for the day. Party over for the day!
Trade1 in profit continue
Trade 2: 1Reward, 3risk.. if profit continue
Trade 3: 1 Reward, 3 risk... if profit, Party over for the day with 3Reward.
Above should result in the same outcome over 5 days... hopefully.

EDIT: i have also seen videos of some very advanced traders trying to SCALE IN with 4-6 positions at the tip of pullback or reversals but they have a lot of crap on their charts like volume profile and shit like that just to blow your eyeballs :-
Staying in my lane...
  • #8,136
  • Oct 12, 2018 3:56pm Oct 12, 2018 3:56pm
Yes timeframe a person uses is their preference on how the see the chart. I use a 30 second chart which equates these days to a 1600 tick chart. There was a time I was using a 133 tick chart they look like machine gun bullets at open. It really boils down to the strategy you have to make DAILY PROFITS that's how I define a daytrader mindset well at least mine lol
  • #8,137
  • Oct 12, 2018 4:08pm Oct 12, 2018 4:08pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} It has been the worst week for anyone to try futures (like me). I lost all my profits (which was huge!) and ended the week negative with some 15%. It was just too much to handle, learning about NQ and figuring out the clunkiness with Sierra and CQG platforms. I am just glad this week is over. I will be back to demo for a while until I gain a full and thorough understanding of her behavior. This is a long haul imo and many will get slaughtered along the way until they are comfortable with something that yields consistency. Now, I will admit!...
Risk 3 to make 1 looks good on paper not in reality imop risk 1 to make 2 means I only need to be right 33% to breakeven everything else is profit
  • #8,138
  • Oct 12, 2018 4:11pm Oct 12, 2018 4:11pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} It has been the worst week for anyone to try futures (like me). I lost all my profits (which was huge!) and ended the week negative with some 15%. It was just too much to handle, learning about NQ and figuring out the clunkiness with Sierra and CQG platforms. I am just glad this week is over. I will be back to demo for a while until I gain a full and thorough understanding of her behavior. This is a long haul imo and many will get slaughtered along the way until they are comfortable with something that yields consistency. Now, I will admit!...
I chalk it up to my inexperience with watching NQ prices.

I tried taking breakout pullbacks but the pullbacks happen so quickly that by the time i'd get in the market my entry was far from good and was subject to the random 5 point (not tick) swings that happen towards the middle of a range.
Lesson? Use Limits.

I was also trying to enter at recent highs and lows but again, especially here, by the time i got in price already reacted and i was in towards the middle and subject to those 5 point swings. This was especially true for these types of trades. Then there were others where i didn't have the conviction to take the trade at that high or low. Every single one of those (4) went to profits (20 ticks).
Lesson? Use limits and get some tick based market replay under your belt to have better mental map of price movement.

I still think a lot of it has to do with volatility.
  • #8,139
  • Oct 12, 2018 4:13pm Oct 12, 2018 4:13pm
Quoting magnumfreak
{quote} I actually know people who trade with an 89 tick chart. If you want to see a chart fly, try the 89 tick chart at market open. LOL! A blur of candles. Too fast for my taste. The number of ticks people use is mostly personal preference. The same reason some will pick a 15 minute chart over a 1 minute chart. To me the 1000 tick chart is a good mix of seeing the details but not so fast as to not be able to react to them. Pre-market candles form about every 5 or so minutes and when the market opens it's around 20-60 seconds sometimes faster sometimes...
Thanks for the details. Wouldn't ticks based on "volume" make more sense then when it comes to following the big boys which results in momentum in the right direction to piggyback on? Tick based on Buy and Sell volume would probably be even better I would think. I am still hurting from the mistake I did with AMP. During account opening, I chose their promotion of $300 day margin but little did I know that it comes with two caveats... 1) higher commission of $3/side and 2) trade size capped at 10 contracts. I was just anxious to open a live account and did not bother reading the details:-

I have always been of the mindset of trading small, trading often, does care about entries, scaling in and scaling out so trading one pair, one trade for one hour with razor sharp focus is tough but definitely a superior option for daily income day traders
Staying in my lane...
  • #8,140
  • Oct 12, 2018 4:19pm Oct 12, 2018 4:19pm
Quoting LookinGood
{quote} I chalk it up to my inexperience with watching NQ prices. I tried taking breakout pullbacks but the pullbacks happen so quickly that by the time i'd get in the market my entry was far from good and was subject to the random 5 point (not tick) swings that happen towards the middle of a range. Lesson? Use Limits. I was also trying to enter at recent highs and lows but again, especially here, by the time i got in price already reacted and i was in towards the middle and subject to those 5 point swings. This was especially true for these types...
I only use limit orders to get in if candle misses by a tick at close I cancel order trading off the chart is the easiest thing in the world
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