i got ripped off during the NFP | Forex Factory

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i got ripped off during the NFP

  • #1
  • First Post: Oct 7, 2006 5:01pm Oct 7, 2006 5:01pm
I need your advice guys! After what happened to me on Friday's NFP I am ready to sue FXCM.

The numbers came out and I got in long at 1.8830 with a market order, at least this is what I thought.
It took my trade to register about a minute on the station and I almost got a heart attack when I saw that the price I was given was 8875. Now this is 45 pips slippage for a market order????

Normally, when the market moves fast, with FXCM a window pops up, "price has moved" and you do not get into the trade at all. Or at times, especially at NFP you will get a dealer window with a slippage price you have 5 seconds to accept or not.

But I have never ever received any slippage with a market order. Either you get the price and you are in at the price you clicked or one of the two above mentioned scenarios will happen.

Of course I called FXCM and they added insult to injury by telling me that my eyes must have played me a trick. Basically they said that the price was moving so fast that I did not see it on the station. When I replied that if that were so, shouldn't the "price has moved window" open and I should not have been in the trade? This they could not answer!

Needless to say that I lost a ton of money!

Now is there any recourse for me to take? This time I am ready to sue these guys.

If they can give you any price they want at any time, it is a waste of time and moneay to trade any fast moving market with them, since how can you prove in front of a court that the price was 8830 when you clicked and not 8875?

And if FXCM can pull tricks like that, who will guarantee that other brokers do not pull the same stunts?
  • #2
  • Edited 5:27pm Oct 7, 2006 5:16pm | Edited 5:27pm
Boy if I had $1 for everytime we heard this

Mate you must just be really new or really dumb... Im going to asume in this case you are really new and give you the benifit of the doubt. With a revised number like that one you can expect that at any retail broker some worst than others. I trade on currenex and hotspotfxi I won't even touch any releases.

Any body can rob a bank a few times and get away with it but in this game it a matter of being consistent. I do feel bad that you lost pips and it tempting to trade because of the large movements i'm sorry but with volatile releases your just making your exposure to risk that much greater.

You will find many post on this. I don't have any links to them handy but you can do a search.


turbo

ps. "**Under normal market conditions." that prevents any of your recourses.
  • #3
  • Oct 7, 2006 5:20pm Oct 7, 2006 5:20pm
Stop trading the news. You won't get one red cent out of FXCM... they've dealt with thousands of guy's like you in the past. That goes for any broker by the way. The only true pro's that trade the news successfully on a consistent level are doing it on the floor of an exchange. Consider this your pricey lesson. Now you get a chance to build up your funds again... the conventional way - by trading the market... and not trying to make a million dollars on a Friday morning.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

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Good Luck... the best is yet to come.<o></o>
  • #4
  • Oct 7, 2006 5:37pm Oct 7, 2006 5:37pm
Hello Bernfriedd,

Sorry about your loss -- this story plays out over & over. Your broker isn't at fault its more NFP is at fault than anything else. Many of us have learned the hard way to wait a few minutes or so before pulling the trigger on news releases -- as for me, I wait 4 to 6.

I've been at this a couple of years with my SW & I can't remember seeing my charts move as quickly up & back down as they did yesterday. Neddless to say, looks to me like the overall trend is now to the downside for this pair.

I say this from a respectfull point of view to your feelings. Trading 4x news releases is exponentially harder than just trading this market at all. Maybe you can use this as Lessons Learned & accept this loss to move on to better trades. Losing trades are part of the journey to becoming a successful trader in any market.

Just my 2 pips.

Happy Trading,

Ronny C.
  • #5
  • Oct 7, 2006 5:44pm Oct 7, 2006 5:44pm
That for sure I would say I haven't seen NFP move market like that in about a year. I was starting to think it didn't have the 100/200pip spikes in it any more...

turbo

Quoting Ronny C.
Hello Bernfriedd,

Sorry about your loss -- this story plays out over & over. Your broker isn't at fault its more NFP is at fault than anything else. Many of us have learned the hard way to wait a few minutes or so before pulling the trigger on news releases -- as for me, I wait 4 to 6.

I've been at this a couple of years with my SW & I can't remember seeing my charts move as quickly up & back down as they did yesterday. Neddless to say, looks to me like the overall trend is now to the downside for this pair.

I say this from a respectfull point of view to your feelings. Trading 4x news releases is exponentially harder than just trading this market at all. Maybe you can use this as Lessons Learned & accept this loss to move on to better trades. Losing trades are part of the journey to becoming a successful trader in any market.

Just my 2 pips.

Happy Trading,

Ronny C.
  • #6
  • Oct 7, 2006 6:34pm Oct 7, 2006 6:34pm
You guys are totally pathethic bashing on a fellow trader as if brokers paid huge money for you to do this onto fellow traders! Traders should side with fellow traders!

Bernfriedd,
For all intents and purposes, FXCM is the worse to trade US news and GFT is the worst of all - you cant trade any news with them.

News trading is definitely profitable - you need a better broker. Perhaps move onto an ECN broker that plays fair (though with higher spreads on news time).

Going back to your plan of suing FXCM, the problem here is that HOW can you indeed prove that you ordered at 8830 and not 8875 and waited 1 minute for the order to show up. Nonetheless, file the complain so they know you are not a push over.

Next time, dont bet large lots that will blow your account. I know from experience that trying a home run is totally a NO-NO. there are many news to trade in a month. You can still make money slowly on each of them. win some, lose some, but please dont try to lose all in one go.
  • #7
  • Oct 7, 2006 7:10pm Oct 7, 2006 7:10pm
Whoa whoa whoa, BK...first, I do think it probably was a bit harsh to "bash". The second post was a bit mean-spirited than it had to be, but the point should be made that regardless of what people think of retail brokers, there is a lesson to be learned.

It should be noted that when you use a MARKET order, you're itching to get burnt...period. If you absolutely HAVE to get into the market, then people...DEFINE the amount of slippage you're willing to take by entering a limit order...for example, if the price is at 1.8830 and you're willing to take no more than 15 pips of slippage, then enter a LIMIT order at 1.8845...how hard is that???? "OH, but the market is moving to fast for me to do that"...then EXPECT more slippage. seriously...

I understand that need to complain about brokerages because we're way too proud to look at the correct things. This was NFP, man...slippage will happen. It sucks that you got sucked out, but honestly I have to ask you...what made you go long with the revision? Weren't you at least a little taken aback with such a high revision? That should have at least made you double think. If you didn't pay attention to the release, then it's really your fault for making the decision to go long. You were placing a bet and got burnt at that point. No more and no less.

Secondly, I think it's presumptious to think that anyone here is "defending" brokers. Look, brokers aren't a necessary evil. People definitely have choices when going with brokers but what annoys the hell out of me and others on this board is that no matter how often crap like this gets written about, people STILL don't get it. Trading NFP without the proper order types?? you're asking to have your account killed. Personally, I think you have to either READ the market in order to play the news or just gamble...plain and simple.

Besides, once you saw the price tumble AND you read the analysis, didn't you just close and reverse with the expectation that you'd recover? Think...once you were absolutely aware (2 minutes later) that your trade was not only a dud, but the numbers painted a different portrait, didn't you see the dollar bull push coming? if not, then I don't think you really read not only the fundamentals, but the technicals (perfect pin formed on the 5 minute chart).

I just feel that we get so many complaints about brokers about the same thing...slippage during volatile news that it makes me think people aren't really paying attention to what's really going on in order to make the really easy money (or avoid losing while trying to take the difficult money).

Quoting BurgerKing
You guys are totally pathethic bashing on a fellow trader as if brokers paid huge money for you to do this onto fellow traders! Traders should side with fellow traders!

Bernfriedd,
For all intents and purposes, FXCM is the worse to trade US news and GFT is the worst of all - you cant trade any news with them.

News trading is definitely profitable - you need a better broker. Perhaps move onto an ECN broker that plays fair (though with higher spreads on news time).

Going back to your plan of suing FXCM, the problem here is that HOW can you indeed prove that you ordered at 8830 and not 8875 and waited 1 minute for the order to show up. Nonetheless, file the complain so they know you are not a push over.

Next time, dont bet large lots that will blow your account. I know from experience that trying a home run is totally a NO-NO. there are many news to trade in a month. You can still make money slowly on each of them. win some, lose some, but please dont try to lose all in one go.
  • #8
  • Oct 7, 2006 7:23pm Oct 7, 2006 7:23pm
Quoting turbokaos
Boy if I had $1 for everytime we heard this

Mate you must just be really new or really dumb...
Ok, I accept the criticism, but let me follow this line of thought: So if it impossible for me to prove that I was seeing a price on my station of 50 pips below the price I got, they are free to do whatever they want.
That means that a company like FXCM can get you in at any price they want in a fast moving market. Of course NFP is extreme, but there are other, lesser events, where the price moves rather quickly also. So if they want they could give you 10, 20, 30 pips slippage, whatever they feel it is o.k..
And you feel there is no recourse for me?

I mean they condition the customer for months (I have traded the NFP before of course) with the fact that you get in with a market order at the price you see at your station or you get their infamous "price has moved" window and no trade is executed. So for months you feel pretty safe, because if you are in you are in at your price and if their window pops up, you have no trade but no loss either.
But suddenly they chose not to show the window "price has moved", instead they choose to give you 50 pips slippage instead.
So my point is, why would they chosoe to act completely different in the same fast moving markets. Because their is no law?
Their excuse for their warning window is that prices move so fast that these prices never existed and where I was requoted I had a choice to accept the offered price or not.
This time they decided for me, or what happened. Why was I not given the warning window "price has moved" if the price has moved indeed!!!!
Well, I guess that everything goes and I hope that Joe Ross is right. He mentioned something about better regulations in 2008.

But my final question, being dumb or not, is there any legal recourse I can take or not. (But maybe this question is dumb in itself???)
  • #9
  • Edited 8:13pm Oct 7, 2006 7:32pm | Edited 8:13pm
Have put a tick chart of an Institutional ECN feed. Each dot represents a trade. I won't list the name of which one cause I got in trouble w/ copy right viloations when I posted the 5min video their platform.

green = buys
red = sells

But this will show what happen on Institutional ECN during NFP. And this is why I don't try to trade the news.

It not that the price moves so fast.. the prices don't always go 1234567.

Has you can see they went 8830 next price was 8865 ect.

turbo
Attached Image
  • #10
  • Oct 7, 2006 7:37pm Oct 7, 2006 7:37pm
Bernfriedd,

When I had a discussion with GFT about my fouled up entry orders - they told me, it is their rules and I have to follow their rules...

RULES? What rules? where is the rules listed on their website? NONE!

Bottom line:

There are honest brokers and dishonest brokers. You just experienced with a dishonest one. And I bet they are now doing this completely to everyone.... And I bet, all who traded NFP with FXCM/GFT lost money...

The execution delay is a mechanism that these unscrupulous brokers are using to make sure that they have full grasp of the price action; they will continue to delay you for as long as it takes (GFT said it so), until either the market reverses and fill you up at the top, or fill up for a huge slippage if the trend contunued onwards.....

First GET the date/time when you placed your orders with FXCM. We start from there. Get a full record for this particular order. Once you have that on official record, we'd discuss the next step.
  • #11
  • Oct 7, 2006 7:37pm Oct 7, 2006 7:37pm
Quoting mrmikal
It should be noted that when you use a MARKET order, you're itching to get burnt...period. If you absolutely HAVE to get into the market, then people...DEFINE the amount of slippage you're willing to take by entering a limit order...for example, if the price is at 1.8830 and you're willing to take no more than 15 pips of slippage, then enter a LIMIT order at 1.8845...how hard is that???? "OH, but the market is moving to fast for me to do that"...then EXPECT more slippage. seriously...
Well, maybe you can expliin something: At FXCM, when entering with a market order (I have been with FXCM for 18 months, so I have some experience with them) slippage was unkown to me with a market order. Period!.

I either got in at the price I saw, or I would get the infamous "price has moved" and I did not not get in at the price I saw, which happended quite often.

I cannot recall one time, when I traded any fast moving market with a market order, when I got slippage. I cannot say it again and again, I was used to the infamous "moving price window"
Don't you think if I would have seen slippage before, I would have thought twice to enter NFP with a market order?

Like other times before I expected to get in a the price I saw or not get in at all, or at worst have the dealing desk offer me a price which I could decline.
So, I felt pretty safe and made a few bucks like that in the past.

So this time they outsmarted me, or what happened?? Why would this infamous window NOT pop up suddenly, when it used to pop up hundreds of times, preventing me from trading, but giving me no loss either????

That is all I need to know. Where was this "price has moved" window this time????

If they outsmarted me, I will live with it. I am in touch with a guy who claims to have a strategy to get back to FXCM, you make one trade, you make big bucks and you run. If he should really share this strategy with me (provided that this strategy does indeed exist), I will be happy to share it with all of you!
  • #12
  • Oct 7, 2006 7:45pm Oct 7, 2006 7:45pm
Here is what mrmikal was saying...

In the attached picture, the "At Market" is the amount of pips slippage you are willing to accept. The default is "0" for exact price match.
Attached Image
  • #13
  • Oct 7, 2006 7:45pm Oct 7, 2006 7:45pm
MKT order stand for next avaible price. I do think that retail brokers are a buch of dirt bags and I won't deal with them but filing a complain w/ the NFA/CFTC is going to do nothing more than waste your time and if the NFA/CFTC does fine them a few million buck after they get enough complaints you won't see any of that. It sucks... but the thing to do is move on... and you can deff finde a bettter broker w/ better spreads too


turbo

Quoting Bernfriedd
Well, maybe you can expliin something: At FXCM, when entering with a market order (I have been with FXCM for 18 months, so I have some experience with them) slippage was unkown to me with a market order. Period!.

I either got in at the price I saw, or I would get the infamous "price has moved" and I did not not get in at the price I saw, which happended quite often.

I cannot recall one time, when I traded any fast moving market with a market order, when I got slippage. I cannot say it again and again, I was used to the infamous "moving price window"
Don't you think if I would have seen slippage before, I would have thought twice to enter NFP with a market order?

Like other times before I expected to get in a the price I saw or not get in at all, or at worst have the dealing desk offer me a price which I could decline.
So, I felt pretty safe and made a few bucks like that in the past.

So this time they outsmarted me, or what happened?? Why would this infamous window NOT pop up suddenly, when it used to pop up hundreds of times, preventing me from trading, but giving me no loss either????

That is all I need to know. Where was this "price has moved" window this time????

If they outsmarted me, I will live with it. I am in touch with a guy who claims to have a strategy to get back to FXCM, you make one trade, you make big bucks and you run. If he should really share this strategy with me (provided that this strategy does indeed exist), I will be happy to share it with all of you!
  • #14
  • Oct 7, 2006 7:48pm Oct 7, 2006 7:48pm
Here is a graph of 4 popular brokers and their behavior during the NFP release. FXCM was leading the market by a full 10 pips.

Seriously though, entering a market order during NFP is the equivelant of dropping your soap in a prison shower. You get what you asked for.
Attached Image
  • #15
  • Oct 7, 2006 8:04pm Oct 7, 2006 8:04pm
If you used Oanda, you wouldn't have this problem.
Mr. Trend
  • #16
  • Oct 7, 2006 8:07pm Oct 7, 2006 8:07pm
Quoting BurgerKing
Here is what mrmikal was saying...

In the attached picture, the "At Market" is the amount of pips slippage you are willing to accept. The default is "0" for exact price match.
Well, my default was "0". Zero, zilch, niente!

You need to understand that I have traded under these conditions many times. I was not prepared for slippage, since I never had slippage with a market order. This might sound strange, but it is the truth: Either I got in with no slippage or I did not get in at all.
For what happened this NFP, I was totally unprepared.

So all I would like to know is if it is legal to suddenly give you 50 pips slippage although your station says "0" as default?

BTW, I entered the trade at exactly 8:30 and at 8:32 it was all over for me!
  • #17
  • Oct 7, 2006 8:12pm Oct 7, 2006 8:12pm
Mate if you clicked the button exactly on my platform you would of been F@%$ too...

See my above chart

turbo


Quoting Bernfriedd
Well, my default was "0". Zero, zilch, niente!

You need to understand that I have traded under these conditions many times. I was not prepared for slippage, since I never had slippage with a market order. This might sound strange, but it is the truth: Either I got in with no slippage or I did not get in at all.
For what happened this NFP, I was totally unprepared.

So all I would like to know is if it is legal to suddenly give you 50 pips slippage although your station says "0" as default?

BTW, I entered the trade at exactly 8:30 and at 8:32 it was all over for me!
  • #18
  • Oct 7, 2006 8:13pm Oct 7, 2006 8:13pm
Bernfriedd

As I already said, ask FXCM for the official date/time of the order first.
ie, "FXCM, can I get the official date/time as to when my order was placed?"
  • #19
  • Oct 7, 2006 8:22pm Oct 7, 2006 8:22pm
Quoting Mr Trend
If you used Oanda, you wouldn't have this problem.
I have signed up with Saxobank in the meantime, they executed my trades without problems so far. And I have looked into ECN trading.

Does anybody have more info on what Joe Ross said about better regulations coming? He also said that Reuters develops some better regulated Forex platform and I quote:

"here is yet another hope on the horizon for traders who want to trade forex in a regulated venue. Sadly it will not take place until 2008. At that time you will be able to trade forex on Globex at the CME, in a regulated environment and with uniformity of prices".

I am truey looking forward to this, but in the meantime I still feel ripped off and if there is no recourse and I am wasting my and your time, so be it.

But if there is a way I can create some heat under FXCM'S fat behinds, please let me know it.


PS

I also have looked into Dukascopy, Hotspotfx, EBS FX and EFX Group.

If someone has more info on above companies, please be welcome to share it.
So far Dukascopy looks pretty good to me.
  • #20
  • Oct 7, 2006 8:24pm Oct 7, 2006 8:24pm
Quoting BurgerKing
Bernfriedd

As I already said, ask FXCM for the official date/time of the order first.
ie, "FXCM, can I get the official date/time as to when my order was placed?"
You bet I will. I will call them when they open their office at 5 pm tomorrow and I will post the exact time here. But what is the next step then?
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