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Would you renounce your citizenship to pay less tax?

  • #61
  • Sep 3, 2018 4:53am Sep 3, 2018 4:53am
Quoting lemercenaire
{quote} If you are genuinely serious about this and have the funds to back it up, then you should look into becoming a ''Perpetual Traveler'' aka a ''Global Nomad'' / ''Nomad Capitalist''. I lived this way myself for a number of years and my ex still does. At the moment she's in Fuertaventura. Before that, it was S.Ireland and So Cal. Look into Flag Theory. Have laptop, will trade. Man oh man...memories. See what you've done, lol.
This is a revelation to me. The question now is, how many actually bother contacting thailand revenue service or whichever country they're in to give them tax. You could literally float around asia for years as long as you dont go home to live, you will be LEGALLY exempt from tax in your home nation
  • #62
  • Sep 3, 2018 5:26am Sep 3, 2018 5:26am
Quoting voketexpert
{quote} what a nice guy.
Europe is still the cultural centre of the world. Despite the strong immigration, Europe still houses all the cultural pieces of significance. You go to thailand for sun surf and fun, good food, but Rich people go to Europe to rediscover their roots and feed their soul. As fun as south east Asia is, theres nothing nicer than the cultured and refined experiences Europe uniquely has.
  • #63
  • Sep 3, 2018 6:23am Sep 3, 2018 6:23am
I like my citizenship as it is and I like my taxes as they are, so no, I, personally, would not do that at this stage.
  • #64
  • Sep 3, 2018 6:37am Sep 3, 2018 6:37am
Quoting richyRich27
{quote} Europe is still the cultural centre of the world. Despite the strong immigration, Europe still houses all the cultural pieces of significance. You go to thailand for sun surf and fun, good food, but Rich people go to Europe to rediscover their roots and feed their soul. As fun as south east Asia is, theres nothing nicer than the cultured and refined experiences Europe uniquely has.

Could not agree more. I live in Australia but half my heart belongs in Europe. Love the place and hope to move over there when i call it a day on my work life or my trading goes to the next level....
  • #65
  • Sep 3, 2018 7:22am Sep 3, 2018 7:22am
Quoting james1254
I like my citizenship as it is and I like my taxes as they are, so no, I, personally, would not do that at this stage.
For me this is just a thought experiment. I am in all likelihood going to pay the 50% the taxman wants which will cause me to throw away 3 million this financial year (expected)

Ive been to asia many times and know what its like. But I suspect you have to prove residency in the new country and open a different bank account. Trusting large sums to a 3rd world country I couldnt stomach.

I dont think its just as simple as staying away from australia, you would probably need some documentation hoop jump pain in the ass thing. Im still going to go see an accountant, but their advice matters little 3 years later and they got something wrong.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
  • #66
  • Sep 3, 2018 7:56am Sep 3, 2018 7:56am
Quoting richyRich27
{quote} For me this is just a thought experiment. I am in all likelihood going to pay the 50% the taxman wants which will cause me to throw away 3 million this financial year (expected) Ive been to asia many times and know what its like. But I suspect you have to prove residency in the new country and open a different bank account. Trusting large sums to a 3rd world country I couldnt stomach. I dont think its just as simple as staying away from australia, you would probably need some documentation hoop jump pain in the ass thing. Im still going...
Singapore is as first world as it gets. As i understand it, there is no taxes on cap gains unless you are flipping real estate (shares and financial instruments trading in general are considered personnal investment and are henced not taxed). They are prob taxing real estate speculation due to the scarcity of land.

https://www.iras.gov.sg/IRASHome/Individuals/Locals/Working-Out-Your-Taxes/What-is-Taxable-What-is-Not/Gains-from-Sale-of-Property--Shares-and-Financial-Instruments/

Main downside is the cost of living but if you are from Australia and are expected to bank 6 mils it wont make a dent when you compare it to paying 0 taxes.
  • #67
  • Sep 3, 2018 8:56am Sep 3, 2018 8:56am
Quoting richyRich27
{quote} For me this is just a thought experiment. I am in all likelihood going to pay the 50% the taxman wants which will cause me to throw away 3 million this financial year (expected) Ive been to asia many times and know what its like. But I suspect you have to prove residency in the new country and open a different bank account. Trusting large sums to a 3rd world country I couldnt stomach. I dont think its just as simple as staying away from australia, you would probably need some documentation hoop jump pain in the ass thing. Im still going...
6 million made from FX profit? I think you are crazy if you stay and pay 50%

I am happy with 1,2% here but not so happy with the weather
  • #68
  • Sep 3, 2018 9:25am Sep 3, 2018 9:25am
Quoting ArtVendelay
{quote} Singapore is as first world as it gets. As i understand it, there is no taxes on cap gains unless you are flipping real estate (shares and financial instruments trading in general are considered personnal investment and are henced not taxed). They are prob taxing real estate speculation due to the scarcity of land. https://www.iras.gov.sg/IRASHome/Individuals/Locals/Working-Out-Your-Taxes/What-is-Taxable-What-is-Not/Gains-from-Sale-of-Property--Shares-and-Financial-Instruments/ Main downside is the cost of living but if you are...
"Gains from Sale of Shares and Financial Instruments
Generally, profits or losses derived from the buying and selling of shares or other financial instruments are viewed as personal investments. Payouts from insurance policies are also not taxable as they are capital receipts.

These profits are capital gains and are not taxable. You need not report such gains in your tax return."

Jeez Singapore is a traders paradise.
  • #69
  • Sep 3, 2018 10:07am Sep 3, 2018 10:07am
Quoting richyRich27
{quote} This is a revelation to me. The question now is, how many actually bother contacting thailand revenue service or whichever country they're in to give them tax. You could literally float around asia for years as long as you dont go home to live, you will be LEGALLY exempt from tax in your home nation
Unfortunately not so if you are a US citizen. You can leave the US and never go back and the IRS will still claim its poundage off anything you produce.
Story about our Big Bad Boris J, who was born in the US. Left there as a baby. Sold a house in the UK and the IRS claimed their cut.
He was going to fight it then decided it wasn't worth the grief.
Ended up being fleeced for over 100-Grand.
He then gave up his US citizenship.

It can be done as a US citizen and the info how is in the places you'll find if you search my terms above but it's not as easy.
  • #70
  • Sep 3, 2018 10:12am Sep 3, 2018 10:12am
Quoting richyRich27
{quote} "Gains from Sale of Shares and Financial Instruments Generally, profits or losses derived from the buying and selling of shares or other financial instruments are viewed as personal investments. Payouts from insurance policies are also not taxable as they are capital receipts. These profits are capital gains and are not taxable. You need not report such gains in your tax return." Jeez Singapore is a traders paradise.
Yep, you're getting it
  • #71
  • Sep 3, 2018 11:08am Sep 3, 2018 11:08am
Quoting tradur
{quote} I am happy with 1,2% here but not so happy with the weather
brother, I think that 1.2% is just up to 30k euros and its based on a theoretical capital yield, the actual yield percentage is 30% in the Netherlands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax

Box 3: taxable income from savings and investments (viz. real estate) However a "theoretical capital yield" of 4% is taxed at a rate of 30% (so 1.2%) but only if the savings plus stocks of a person exceed a threshold of 25.000 euros. This will be raised to a threshold of 30.000 euros in 2018, together with other changes so that people with less wealth, pay lower taxes.[33] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax#cite_note-33)
  • #72
  • Edited 12:08pm Sep 3, 2018 11:30am | Edited 12:08pm
Quoting richyRich27
{quote} brother, I think that 1.2% is just up to 30k euros and its based on a theoretical capital yield, the actual yield percentage is 30% in the Netherlands. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax Box 3: taxable income from savings and investments (viz. real estate) However a "theoretical capital yield" of 4% is taxed at a rate of 30% (so 1.2%) but only if the savings plus stocks of a person exceed a threshold of 25.000 euros. This will be raised to a threshold of 30.000 euros in 2018, together with other changes so that people...
No mate, it means the government expects you to make 4% yearly gain on the wealth you have. On that 4% they want 30%. Calculated it is 1.2%.

There is one condition your wealth must be atleast 30k
  • #73
  • Sep 3, 2018 11:44am Sep 3, 2018 11:44am
so what if you make 1000% in forex? they will require 300% of your gain. the 4% is theoretical the 30% is real/fixed
  • #74
  • Sep 3, 2018 12:07pm Sep 3, 2018 12:07pm
Quoting richyRich27
so what if you make 1000% in forex? they will require 300% of your gain. the 4% is theoretical the 30% is real/fixed
I know 1,2% is hard to believe lol but Netherlands is a tax paradise for the rich.

Please read this: https://www.orangetax.com/2016/09/box-3-tax-2017-no-1-2/

All other FX traders in NL i know (also Dutch forums) say the same.
  • #75
  • Sep 3, 2018 12:11pm Sep 3, 2018 12:11pm
Quoting richyRich27
so what if you make 1000% in forex? they will require 300% of your gain. the 4% is theoretical the 30% is real/fixed
No, they require 1.2% over anything above 30K
I'm dutch.
Persistence will get it. Consistency will keep it.
  • #77
  • Sep 3, 2018 12:15pm Sep 3, 2018 12:15pm
read the words "theoretical capital yield" ==> for example

if you made 4% for the year,...etc...etc
  • #79
  • Sep 3, 2018 12:35pm Sep 3, 2018 12:35pm
Quoting Chake
{quote} No, they require 1.2% over anything above 30K I'm dutch.
then what is the 30% figure there to do? just for fun?
  • #80
  • Sep 3, 2018 12:46pm Sep 3, 2018 12:46pm
Quoting lemercenaire
{quote} Unfortunately not so if you are a US citizen. You can leave the US and never go back and the IRS will still claim its poundage off anything you produce. Story about our Big Bad Boris J, who was born in the US. Left there as a baby. Sold a house in the UK and the IRS claimed their cut. He was going to fight it then decided it wasn't worth the grief. Ended up being fleeced for over 100-Grand. He then gave up his US citizenship. It can be done as a US citizen and the info how is in the places you'll find if you search my terms above but it's...
that territorial taxation thing was missed by Congress. I feel quite sorry for our American friends in this regard. It's a viscous taxation attitude.
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